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PAL/Europe/Oz: Metroid Prime 2 Echoes - 60hz ONLY.

R

radioheadrule83

Banned
german_lederhosen_black.JPG
Wizard-of-Oz-2002.jpg


http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7118

Nintendo of Europe has released the official packshot for Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and suprisingly it contains a warning 60Hz only warning. This means European gamers will only be able to play the game if they own a 60Hz TV. Gamers who own an older TV will only be able to play the game in black and white or not at all even.
Click to expand...

This to me means:

a) Older generation TV owners AM crying!

b) the slightly lower rez (equal to US NTSC) picture with higher framerate option (aka 60hz mode) must be decent

c) it explains the lightening fast PAL release. Which I would LOVE to see more of!
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
the slightly lower rez (equal to US NTSC) picture with higher framerate option (aka 60hz mode) must be decent
Click to expand...

I assume that this isn't a problem if you have the capability to display the game in progressive scan.
 
C

COCKLES

being watched
Even the cheapest off the shelves TV's have 60 htz capable modes now. Of course the smart manufacturers actually make that a selling point.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
thorns said:
wtf? only high-end 100hz tvs are 60hz, I just bought a new sony 21" that is only 50hz.
Click to expand...

It will almost certainly have a 60hz mode or support the signal if its a new PAL television. PAL 60 is widely supported in new TVs. I would have thought especially by Sony.
 
C

callous

Member
I would be very happy to see this growing into a trend. It would be great not to have to deal with 50hz-only games any longer. Not that it happens a lot these days, but still. I'm afraid, though, that we'll still see plenty of "language" delays.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
If you have an Xbox there might be a dashboard setting. I can't remember. Your DVD player might also have it in its settings too. If you switch and it goes black/white or you don't get a correct picture, then somethings wrong.

If you have a cube, try one of Nintendo's games that boots with the option (like Mario Sunshine, Zelda etc)
 
C

callous

Member
thorns said:
wtf? only high-end 100hz tvs are 60hz, I just bought a new sony 21" that is only 50hz.
Click to expand...

My 6 year old €300 TV has both PAL 60 and NTSC support. In fact, I don't know anyone with a TV that doesn't support at least PAL 60.
 
P

Project Midway

Member
thorns said:
wtf? only high-end 100hz tvs are 60hz, I just bought a new sony 21" that is only 50hz.
Click to expand...
No. Practically all new TV's support both. And most of the older ones too. (<10y old)

And I think you are confused about 50/100 and 50/60 situation. Am I right?
 
T

thorns

Banned
On my xbox with pal-60 I get color picture but the picture looks to be too large for the screen, since the edges of the game (i tried with metal arms) seem to be cut off.
 
J

Jacobi

Banned
callous said:
My 6 year old &#8364;300 TV has both PAL 60 and NTSC support. In fact, I don't know anyone with a TV that doesn't support at least PAL 60.
Click to expand...
I've got 2 33cm TVs that don't support PAL 60. But they 10 years or so old. The funny thing is another 33 cm TV I've got which is 17 years old supports it.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
thorns said:
On my xbox with pal-60 I get color picture but the picture looks to be too large for the screen, since the edges of the game (i tried with metal arms) seem to be cut off.
Click to expand...

Yeah when mine switches to 60hz the picture looks as though its stretched out a tiny bit compared to the 50hz picture... but it still fits within the boundaries of the screen on mine. Try switching your screen fit options on the TV to get it to fit back in... 4:3 / 16:9 / etc.
 
T

thorns

Banned
in widescreen mode (it's a 4:3 tv though has anamorphic widescreen) the top and bottom image fit, but not the sides, and my tv doesn't really have any settings to make the sides fit. oh well...
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
This is a great trend that needs to be set faster. 50 hz BOO!

and seriously, I wish Reiroms illiterate crap wasn't starting to take off here :(

Well done Retro.
 
Forsete

Forsete

Member
Booo! Inferior image quality!

I cant stand the deintelaced lines I get on the edges of objects when the camera pans while playing a 60Hz game. :(
 
S

Shompola

Banned
thorns said:
in widescreen mode (it's a 4:3 tv though has anamorphic widescreen) the top and bottom image fit, but not the sides, and my tv doesn't really have any settings to make the sides fit. oh well...
Click to expand...

Sounds like your tv isn't calibrated properly.
 
SantaC

SantaC

Member
thorns said:
in widescreen mode (it's a 4:3 tv though has anamorphic widescreen) the top and bottom image fit, but not the sides, and my tv doesn't really have any settings to make the sides fit. oh well...
Click to expand...

tv service menu is your friend.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Forsete said:
Booo! Inferior image quality!

I cant stand the deintelaced lines I get on the edges of objects when the camera pans while playing a 60Hz game. :(
Click to expand...

Are progressive scan capable TVs widely available in Europe yet? That would seriously solve the problem...
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
SantaCruZer said:
tv service menu is your friend.
Click to expand...

shit yeah, this thing seriously saved me after I dropped my tv while moving one day.
 
G

Gregory

Banned
Wow, could nintendo care less about Europe? This is ridicilous. I guess they have really given up on the GC. I`d think it wasn`t even allowed to release a game with 60hz only in Europe.

Sure, there are many tv`s that support 60hz, but many that do also needs an RGB scart for colours. Which is hardly available for gamecube from what I`ve heard.
 
C

callous

Member
Gregory said:
Wow, could nintendo care less about Europe? This is ridicilous. I guess they have really given up on the GC. I`d think it wasn`t even allowed to release a game with 60hz only in Europe.

Sure, there are many tv`s that support 60hz, but many that do also needs an RGB scart for colours. Which is hardly available for gamecube from what I`ve heard.
Click to expand...

Uhm, RGB SCART is quite easily available for GC, and in any case, the AV cable that comes standard with the GC itself is just fine for getting colours in PAL 60. No problems there. This isn't like playing an import on your PS1.
 
R

Rocket Punch

Member
thorns said:
in widescreen mode (it's a 4:3 tv though has anamorphic widescreen) the top and bottom image fit, but not the sides, and my tv doesn't really have any settings to make the sides fit. oh well...
Click to expand...

The NTSC version of Metroid Prime has in game settings for adjusting TV screen sizes... Does the PAL version have those too?
 
N

ninge

Member
thorns - xbox has a much bigger overscan area than the GC so you might find you can see "more" of the image with a GC game than an XBOX game - give it a whirl :)
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
dark10x said:
So the resolution increase doesn't benefit PAL users as much? That makes sense...

However, 50 fps just sucks. I've only witnessed this a few times, but there is a MASSIVE difference between 50 and 60 fps for me.
Click to expand...

Well resolution is a seperate issue. I think in resolutions more native to HDTV systems then yeah the resolution is probably quite obviously noticable... but for GCN/XB games in 480p, all its doing is removing the various negative effects of frame ordering in 480i to create a smoother image. At least thats how I understand it. Because modern PAL tv's buffer and display the frames differently than when in NTSC mode, Proscan in those instances can sometimes make a PAL image worse.


thorns said:
how to enter service mode? I have a sony KV-21CT1E. i don't want to screw my tv for non-pal60 stuff..
Click to expand...

Do you still have your instructions? There may be something in or around the menu in which you configure your channels and display settings.
 
D

Deg

Banned
radioheadrule83 said:
Well resolution is a seperate issue. I think in resolutions more native to HDTV systems then yeah the resolution is probably quite obviously noticable... but for GCN/XB games in 480p, all its doing is removing the various negative effects of frame ordering in 480i to create a smoother image. At least thats how I understand it. Because modern PAL tv's buffer and display the frames differently than when in NTSC mode, Proscan in those instances can sometimes make a PAL image worse.
.
Click to expand...

You know what that explains alot for some people! Thanks! :)
 
T

thorns

Banned
http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/sonypal.html
I found this page to get into service mode and fixed my problems from that menu, it worked like a charm :D now I don't have overscan anymore!

Beware though, apparently you can screw up the tv quite hardcore in the service mode if you're not careful, i just modified HPOS, VPOS, VSIZE and HSIZE controls in the GEOM many, didn't touch anything else. Apparently my TV was HORRIBLY calibrated for 60hz..
 
G

Gek54

Junior Member
Is it easier to initialy code for 50hz? Why are PAL developers not starting with 60hz in mind? (*still pissed about no US PS2 CMR4*)
 
G

Gazunta

Member
60hz only games should have been commonplace 5 years ago.

Though, being as I'm in the market for a new TV, I am seing a worringly large number of TV's that list "50 hz only" in its specs over the recent months. I think a whole batch of really old picture tubes have been brought into Australia... :(
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It is not just an australian thing, we have the same problem over Europe with the smaller TV's (specially the cheap ones) Most +21" TV sets are 60Hz, but the ones you put on your kitchen are usually just 50. It is not a real concern since most gamers play their games on decent sized TVs, but it is still anoying.
 
J

JMPovoa

Member
Actually, even though you buy lots of TVs today that state they are 50hz TVs, 60hz games work just fine. It's a standard thing, because TV broadcasts are still 50hz ones.
 
S

snapty00

Banned
If 60 hz is so popular, why do broadcasters and video-equipment makers even bother continuing support for 50 hz? In the U.S., for example, SDTV signals are going to be dropped in-the-not-so-distant future so people will move quickly to HDTV.
 
G

Gregory

Banned
dark10x said:
So the resolution increase doesn't benefit PAL users as much? That makes sense...

However, 50 fps just sucks. I've only witnessed this a few times, but there is a MASSIVE difference between 50 and 60 fps for me.
Click to expand...

Massive and massive.. 25 vs 30fps I agree, but 50/60 is no difference really, except game speed if it`s a bad 50hz conversion. It`s both silky smooth.

But the resolution is the biggest difference, I just tried Outrun 2 in 50hz and it looked much sharper than it does in 60hz.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
50hz and 60hz is the output refresh rate. The reason I think you can tell is because a 30fps game has more opportunities for each frame of animation to be displayed than a 50hz one. Plus 30 into 60 fits overall. Anything below 24 you usually start to notice in either mode, and going up towards 50/60 I agree is for the most part indiscernable to most people.

Personally I find RGB PAL60 to be much better than PAL50. At least on the Nintendo games with the mode select.
 
C

Che

Banned
THANK YOU. Finally someone understood that 50 Hz only TVs do NOT exist anymore and games should NOT necessarily support them. I mean if you're so poor that you haven't or can't change your TV the past 10-15 years you wouldn't afford a console too. This is extremelly positive. No more crappy PAL-50 convertions, zero black bars and on top of all NO MORE DELAYS! Btw thorns I can bet my life that your TV supports 60 Hz. You don't even have to look for it. From '90-'95 all TVs support 60 Hz.
 
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