Honestly I really want to know what the fuck the West was thinking when it decided to create Israel. I mean it's rather remarkable that a European country killed millions of Jews and yet it is the Palestinians that are paying for it. There can never be peace in that area without justice.
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Palestinian toddler killed in 'Jewish settler' arson attack
- Thread starter Sage00
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Crash Station
Member
No one is denying that right wing nutjobs exist in Israel, but "vast majority" is not something that can be confirmed by any accurate measure. Not even voting in Likud as they won by plurality and not majority.
I don't think that a declaration by itself will give them freedom, just a different kind of oppression.
Israel had diplomatical and commercial ties with the western countries, so it could financially succeed. The Palestinians don't have that, and they need it.
Terra Firma
Banned
Just as an example, there were many surveys and polls done during the last Israeli incursion into Palestine, with majority support from the Israeli population.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...562c44-1748-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html
I'm pretty sure they'll manage since the whole Palestine issue has sympathizers across the Muslim world.
There is plenty to discuss.
Your country needs to stop the fucking settlements and stop voting for assholes like Netanyahu who are building said settlements. That is what directly lead to this murder.
But will they put their money where their mouth is?
Also, some of those sympathizers are just against Israel rather than in favor of the Palestinians. So they are likely to lose interest if the money wont go into attacking Israel.
Good. then discuss this. He was just adding paranoia without adding anything meaningfull to the discussion itself.
I don't like netanyahu and the settlements. But that's going overboard. Even the most right-wing settlers are not as crazy as this terrorist.
fwiw, I do think there were polls out there showing large majorities in favor of Israel's Protective Edge in Gaza last year. I don't think there were politicians of any major party speaking out about it either. I think a lot of that has to do with misinformation and propaganda though, as i tend to believe that most citizens of any country are inherently good people. That said there were also a lot of brave Israelis protesting the operation as well (and some of them were attacked by right-wingers).
Terra Firma
Banned
Why are you presupposing so many things? The only one to gain anything from delaying Palestinian independence IS Israel.
And no, majority of people in the Muslim world are for Palestine, rather than against Israel, as can be seen from any of the pro-Palestinian campaigns. Why are you making up stuff?
Because I hear a lot of anti-Israeli hate that calls to destroy Israel and all of its citizens from our surrounding countries. (most of it isn't on facebook/twitter and isn't in english though)
I dont understand what do you think we gain from this. We loose multi billion contracts from international corporations that won't build here because it's too dangerous. We loose billions on the IDF budget that in times of peace could be a fraction of what it is today. We loose the peace of mind that no rocket is going to fall on my house in the near future. I don't get it.
Crash Station
Member
There's a lot of factors to consider with this. Sample size, lack of foresight due to being susceptible to fear, misunderstanding of the consequences ("civilians aren't the target, so they have nothing to worry about"), etc. It's not hard to rile up a population when they feel their lives are on the line. The same happened post-9/11 when Bush's popularity was at an all time high and the subsequent invasions had a good amount of the public's support despite its death toll surpassing the entirety of those caused by Israel since its inception.
But also like Bush, support can dwindle. From your link, there's a survey showing 85% of The University of Haifa were satisfied with Netanyahu's leadership. So what does that mean when he was elected on a plurality, getting WAY below 85% of the population's vote? When the red left their eyes in the wake of Protective Edge, did they see the operation for the terrible injustice it was? Or perhaps UoF never represented the majority in the first place and there are regional differences when it comes to politics (like in many places)?
Either way, it's still impossible to confirm the majority of the country feels that way.
That no politicians were speaking out about it at all is definitely problematic. That I didn't know.
It's interesting as my Israeli cousins made it seem like quite a few people they knew were against the operation when it really got underway (they supported it before seeing some of the results) and anyone they knew that did support it by the end didn't in retrospect.
Of course that's just anecdotal evidence, so not like it represents the majority either.
Wat. Is it really that difficult for you to distinguish between jews and israelis. From what I see from your post, you're american, why do you feel attacked ehen I critize the israeli government, a terrorist state? See, the only time when this flows to jews that are not israeli is, when they try to justify Israels crimes or suggest that they are attacked when Israel is attacked even if they aren't even part of that country. You did the connection. People in this thread managed to disdinguish between a jew and an israeli.
Well give them the change to build some international ties. The sentiment here in EU is that Palestinians deserve their own state and I am sure trade and support would flow in from the EU, once a peace treaty has been signed and put into action. You would be surprised at the growing support of the Palestine and their cause and the downright spiral of support for Israel all around the world and here in the EU.
The excuse you're again trying to make in order to keep the current status quo are a joke. Everything needs to start somewhere, you're brushing off ideas due to the "Palestinians won't have anything if they declare independence anyway, so lets keep on keeping them in a prison and destroy their future."
Jeez, I wonder where Israel was in when the state was first formed. I am sure you guys back then started with everything, all the infrastructure, all the economy already pre-build, to just walk in and enjoy your new life....
Again you sound way more paranoid than what the reality suggest. A bit like Netanyahu. Dude WW2 is over and the Nazi's have been defeated. You guys are pretty much safe. Yes you do suffer from terriorist attacks, just like the rest of the world. It's not pretty but it is something we will have to learn to live with. This paranoid that a massive army will come and destroy Israel is a fantasy. There are no other major states with the military power to achieve this. Not to mention the support Israel would get from the west, military and financial support. The paranoid scenario you guys fear cannot ever become a reality. It simply can't
Maybe you guys need to start asking yourself questions why there is any anti-Israeli sentiment around the world. Maybe it's time to look at your damaging policies, or continue to do business as usual and hope the anti-Israeli sentiments go away. I can assure you if you guys continue on this path, the sentiments won't go away but only grow stronger. Policies like potentially getting 20 years in prison for trowing a rock, while on the other spectrum, the military is allowed to bomb the living shit out of the Palestinians and kill thousands of civilians, yet not get 1 day in prison for causing civilian casualties.
It's policies like that, that is turning the whole world against you.
It's way more recent than that.
We had multiple wars in the past where all of our surrounding neighboring countries turned against us and tried to wipe us off the face of the earth. That's was way after WW2.
Hamas in 2014 - the guys in charge of gaza :
http://www.timesofisrael.com/annihilate-israel-hamas-leaders-tell-gaza-youth/
Iran 2014:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-supreme-leader-touts-9-point-plan-to-destroy-israel/
http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/...tions-relief-will-fund-terror-2#.VbzO_G6qpBc= (Following the money: How much of Iran deal’s sanctions relief will fund terror?)
Yet you call it paranoia. Yes, they are getting weaker. But it doesn't mean they wont try to kill us when they get the chance - as they promise us over and over again, year after year.
You don't think Iran's threat is credible? You don't think that Hamas and their allies in other neighboring countries threat is credible? Fine. But it is far from paranoia , especially considering our past 50 or so years of history (all of it, not just the nazi's 60+ years ago). I understand what you are saying, i just don't agree.
I do agree about the policies, and Netanyahu is losing his popularity. His way of doing things clearly doesn't work.
I am sorry but that excuse it has happened in the past doesn't hold up anymore. That's like France saying, they are still afraid of an imminent German attack. Really that was so long ago, before you were even born (I am guessing here), so stop trying to justify paranoia fear, when reality, the one you currently live in is different.. I mean you are making it sound like this happened 2-3 years ago...
As for the favorite Israeli quote, "Trying to wipe us off the earth/map". Every time I heard that BS line, I roll my eyes. Shall we actually look at who is getting wiped off the face of the earth?
Spoiler, it's not Israelis, but Palestinians. Since the inception of the Israel state, Israel as a country land mass has grown by stealing Palestinian land. It is actually the Palestinian state that is being wiped out from the face of the earth. Look this is now the 3rd time I have linked this map.
Now please tell me, who is actually being wiped off the earth?. Cause this map clearly shows the exact opposite to what is actually happening, in this so called reality. It's a sick joke from Israelis that say this line, knowing ironically it is them that are actually achieving this goal. Again actions speak louder than words. When your territory grows and the Palestinians perishes, it is Israel who is actively trying to wipe a nation of the earth. So stop using that joke of a quote ffs. It's beyond stupidity by now. All the facts point the Palestinians being wiped off the face of the earth.
No I don't think Iran threat is credible. Recent Iran history shows that they do not invade other countries and wipe them off the face of the earth. Do you have any counter evidence that the rest of the world is unaware? It's also funny saying Iranian's are saying they want to wipe us off the map, people in Israel are also promoting and looking for support on attacking Iran. Quite Ironic the whole thing.
Sure Iran sponsor terrorism, just like the Israelis and many other governments do. Do you remember the string of assassinations on Iran's nuclear scientist. I guess you don't call that terrorism do you, since it is your side doing it. Or the USA supporting the Taliban in the 80s against the Soviets. That falls all in the same basket of sponsoring terrorism factions or actual doing the terrorism actions your self, but no one ever wants to admit that.
And the Iran deal is the best outcome possible. What do you propose?. Go in and fuck up Iran, just like we did with Iraq & Libya. Cause those sure worked out great. Political solution is the only viable solution to this problem. Netanyahu is pissed because he knows that this is the solution. He is pissed because he knows if Iran is stop being sanction to the hill, Israel in the long turn will lose it's middle east influence to Iran. You can't compete against them when your population is 8 million and Iran's is 78 million. Without sanctions Iran will develop and become the defacto power house in the middle east and their will influence the region, just like Israel has been doing this past decades.
Moving on to the so called Hamas, their threat is a joke. I mean they managed to kill 19 people since 2010 with their advance world class rocket systems. More people have probably died in Israel by walking and tripping them self on a kerb on the side of the road since then. The rhetoric you and your government keeps on delivering is not supported by facts. It would be supported by facts, if each year 3-4k Israelis died from terrorist actions and every other year, Iran or other countries tried to mount an invasion. Then yes the rhetoric would be accurate and I will be all for defending your self with any means possible.
Really from the few post we communicated I can tell I am talking to a brick wall. You have been brain washed really well I have to say. I am impressed. You believe your own story, and by finding a few quotes from some religious nut jobs, that is enough for you to justify your reasoning. (I am sure if I dig deep enough I can find ridiculous quotes from people in the Israeli government, Netanyahu delivered quote a few good ones before the election).
When the majority of the facts don't support that conclusion. I mean can't you tell that 80% of the world disagrees with Israel and their actions. I take it 80% of the world is either anti-Semetic (you guys love that sentence) or are just plain old wrong. Or maybe the whole world is not wrong, but you're. Did you ever think of that?
Father_Brain
Banned
Your delusion is that you freely conflate rhetoric with ability to carry it out in reality.
More often than not it's Israeli officials, MPs etc that are spewing the racist, hateful or dangerous rhetoric, but of course he'll ignore that. Even though it's Israel that is actually doing the wiping out of another state and people, and the ones who have billions of dollars worth of military armaments and dominant army.
Remember the Israeli parliament member recently that said Palestinian mothers should be killed? Yea...
I mean holy shit, Netanyahu's surge in popularity in votes happened only when he publicly declared his opposition to a two-state peace solution, and vowed to push ahead with further mass settlement building. That was the main thing that pushed him ahead with a chunk of Israeli voters. It's beyond disgusting.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
WHAT. WHAT.
Look up Ayelet Shaked.
She posted an excerpt of another article, so those aren't her words, but ... yeah.
Well. Looks like you don't know Hebrew. Or maybe the western media trying to "translate" a text to better fit their narrative? Big surprise. (/s)
https://archive.is/zWrrG
She quoted somebody else who said that the mothers who teach/send their kids do be martyrs (as suicide bombers) should follow their son's footsteps to hell.
The snakes he is referring to are the shahids- the martyrs - the suicide bombers that those mothers raised.
The rest of text is saying that Israel is at war and comparing it to other military confrontations in the middle east.
Definitely a very harsh statement. But not even close to what you are trying to make of it.
Google translate:
There is currently a rally in tel aviv against the events of the recent days (there was also a murder of a gay man). But I guess no western media is going to publish that:
Sign says "Hate kills"
Homophabia, Racism - same violence.
Current president giving a speech against the hate and racism.
Previous president doing the same.
Oh look they are having more speeches again. More words followed by no actions. On one hand they pretend about their dismay, on the other hand vote in a prime minister (3 months ago) that is against peace and is for war. The reason the baby died is due to the continue building on illegal settlements. And guess who they voted in. A guy that promised more illegal settlements. Funny old world.
All talk but when the time comes for real change, they all hide and vote for a person that guarantees no changes will occur.
Israel the definition of fake facade. I hope that pissed off palestinian wont throw stones today. Could get 20 years in prison for that. I hope people stay calm.
Those politicians are two-faced hypocrites and liars, but i imagine the protesters' hearts are in the right place. Remember that there were some Israelis protesting Protective Edge as well (at least one of which posts on GAF), despite right wing fucks threatening them and even attacking them. The problem is they're seemingly not a big enough portion of the population to carry any significant political weight.
So I guess leaving the Gaza, dismantling all settlements and removing all IDF forces in 2005 , and opening the Rafiah passage in 2011 are just "fake words". Good to know.
According to your logic it should have made the Hamas and palestinians more peaceful, and brought us closer to a permanent peace treaty. Instead they kicked out their most moderate leader and started firing rockets at our major cities instead of just the smaller villages near gaza. Why? Because they can.
Surrendering to terrorism doesn't bring peace.
http://www.voanews.com/content/slai...rents-brother-fighting-for-lives/2892886.html
They just "forgot" to mention he threw a molotov.
Such a balanced report by the western media. GG. Who needs telling both sides of the story anyway?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Leaving Gaza is misleading. Aren't there import restrictions on basic things like cement and building supplies? Didn't Israel impose a limit on them fishing their waters? Is free travel allowed between Gaza and Israel?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Reading is hard.
it's mentioned in the second paragraph.
Read before you go on a ridiculous rant about unbalanced media reporting.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
"Leaving Gaza" lol.
Yeah. You left a big fat land, sea and air blockade. Whoopie do.
Yeah. You left a big fat land, sea and air blockade. Whoopie do.
It's not misleading.
The idea was that leaving gaza will start a peace process during which the restrictions will be lifted over time. But instead of a gradual disarmament of the Hamas and lifting of the restrictions we got an escalation. Hamas started being more aggressive, not less (as some people here claim would happen if we do what the hamas wants). A lot of restrictions remained in place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza#Description_of_the_plan
But then this happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza#Fatah.E2.80.93Hamas_conflict
And stopped the plan.
Sorry, I missed it. You should have mentioned it as well.
The headline sure makes it sound like he was shot for no reason. If he wasn't Palestinian the head line would have been "Youth attacked a soldier and was shot". "Balanced" , right...
There needs to be a peace process. Netanyahu obviously won't do it, so he has to go.
Simply surrendering to the demands of a terrorist organization won't work. It never did.
If you want to declare an independent Hamas (not Palestinian, just Hamas in gaza) state, declare an independent ISIS state as well while you are at it.
For a palestinian state a lot of work needs to be done, and i agree that the current israeli government isnt doing it.
Yeah they left them infrastructure, greenhouses for farming and no blockade to begin with.
Guess when the blockade came into place? AFTER Hamas was elected (so much for 'only a few people support Hamas') and started their attacks with infiltrations and rockets. Oh and those greenhouses and other infrastructure left behind as a token of goodwill? They were smashed and never used.
Why should Israel let an enemy entity bring in all sorts of weapons, rockets and building materials for tunnels, no sane country would allow that to happen if they had the power to stop it. It always makes me laugh that the anti Israel brigade seems to forget that Egypt also has completely blocked off Gaza.
Focus your anger on legitimate issues like the west bank settlements instead of getting all worked up over Gaza which is a completely failed state because of it's own doing.
Ah Gaza. The worlds largest prison ever known to man kind. 1.7 million are held in a prison and you're surprised they are pissed off and not happy? You steal 95% of the land, give 0.3% back 2005, yet are surprised Palestinians are not happy with the 5.3% share of the land, while they used to have 100% of the share.
How about you guys go back to the UN resolution of 1947? Then maybe, just maybe they will become more reasonable. If you're not convinced, have a read about the Treaty of Versailles and its fabulous success and then go and compare to the Paris Peace Treaty of 1947. See if you can spot the differences and see if you can spot the different effect they both had. It's quite a good historical read, you might learn something from it. Could also send what you learned to the Israel government, so they can also read it and hopefully learn from it.
You are really good at making up percentage values.
All of Gaza was given to the Palestinians. 100% of it. And the west bank should have been next.
You are comparing signing a treaty with a European country to signing a treaty with the terrorist organization of Hamas? What a joke.
I specifically mentioned then (the Iran bomb you are referring to) that i exaggerated to make a point. It was actually suggested by Mitt Romney.
Thanks, I have learned quite a lot from the Israelis in this regard in this thread. I am getting quite good at making things up. Still not quite on your level (Iran's secret dirty bomb plan) but a couple more post and I will be right with you there my friend.
It's nice when you can just make shit up and pull numbers out of the ass. I quite enjoyed that experience from that post.
I am sorry but I do consider the Nazi's to have been a greater threat to man kind at that time, than today's Hamas. Especially considering Germany started/involved in two world wars in a period of 24 years.
But shit, we still managed to agree to something even when the whole of Europe was destroyed. I guess Hamas are 100x tougher than the Nazi's right? And 100x tougher to trust than a nation that started two world wars in 24 years.
What? Who said that? You are making stuff up again.
The Hamas isn't stronger than a country. That's not how terrorism works at all.
Terrorists don't invade your country with a huge military force in a blitzkrieg. They take their time, killing as many as they possibly can over a long period of time , crippling the country's economy and forcing all it's citizens to live in a constant fear of death. The Hamas is quite successful at that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism
Thanks for your contribution to the thread. Very thought provoking. Best argument NA. (or maybe EU)
And that's the ironic thing about all of this. You are in effect following the same path as we in the EU did after WW1. Punishing the majority for decision made by the minority. You guys are punishing every Palestinian, (even the ones born today) for the action of a few nutjobs. 99% of the population is innocent.
At least in the EU we learned from our stupidity and acted differently after WW2. Learn to read up some history. Both sides could benefit from it.
After WW2 the allies didn't surrender to the nazis, they didn't give germany and japan everything they wanted.
An agreement was made - a peace treaty. Part of that was that Japan was no longer allowed to have any armed forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration
As for Germany:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Instrument_of_Surrender
The Hamas never agreed to such terms, they only arm themselves more and more.
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-leader-no-israeli-disarmament-demand-115815363.html
(edit: BTW, Japan and Germany were occupied by the allied forces. That ended after the armies disarmed themselves and the treaties were signed. The same could work here.)
That's exactly what needs to happen here. Israel shouldn't unconditionally surrender to Hamas and do whatever they ask of Israel.
A peace treaty is needed, and i have already stated my opinion on this and the current Israeli government multiple times.
Hamas are fucking nobodies. Why are you so scared of them? They represent 0.01% of the population. You don't need an agreement with Hamas. Hamas are terrorist. You need an agreement with the normal Palestinian people. You make a deal with them, Hamas is finished. Every normal sane person (99% of the normal civilians) would take peace over fighting. If Hamas continue fighting, they would lose their local support, people would no longer protect them.
You guys are not offering anything. You continue to build settlements, pissing off more normal Palestinians, bombing them which again pisses normal Palestinians off. And then you are surprised that Hamas has support????
You idiots are ruining the lives of millions of people over nothing. Over what 10k-20k of nutjobs and their illogical ideas. 10k-20k of ineffective nutjobs, that managed to kill 19 people in 5 years. Can't you see how pathetic your excuse is to avoid a peace deal is? are you really that blind? Hamas are nobody, their statistics are one of the worst out of all terrorist groups on this planet. I mean Israel would not even be surrendering. Surrender to what?, to whom?
As for your failed attempt of trying to compare Germany and Japan and their surrender conditions to Hamas. LMAO. At least we din't build freaking walls around Germany and Japan and never allow them do develop or leave their country. We allowed them to vote again and to rebuild and we demanded almost nothing in return. You are comparing of trying to remove a real threat of army of millions to a couple of farmers with AK's. Total Joke
Just admit it. Israel does not want peace. Israel wants all the land and Palestinians to disappear. Their long term plan is working, as shown by the map I linked 3 times in this thread already. I made some good points in post 366 which you ignored and did not answer my question. Funny that.
We should go into gaza and let every single Palestinian sign the treaty? Who represents those normal people you are speaking off?
No one, that's who. There is currently no one in Gaza to sign a treaty with.
The West bank is a different story. The Fatah who rule the west bank and the Hamas are mortal enemies. Not having a treaty with the fatah in the west bank is a diplomatical and politica failure of Netanyahu's government.
You didn't allow the nazi democratic parties to be re-elected after the war either. Those parties were removed, by force.
The peace treaties included all the conditions necessary to make sure they physically couldn't start a war again.
You only allowed them what you thought was right for them to rebuild according to your standards and ideologies. (which wasn't a bad thing)
We want peace but not at the cost of letting Hamas terrorize our citizens whenever they feel like it. The day they lay down their weapons will be the day the treaty is signed - just like in every other case in history so far.
Edit: It looks like we disagree on a few key aspects of this discussion. I understand your postion and I hope you understood mine. I see no point in continuing the argument unless you have specific questions for me.
Wow thanks. Apparently calling people names is your strongest argument.
Just a small mistake. It was F1Fan who compared it to WW2, not me. I said outright its a different situation.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173783028&postcount=383
Mr. Giggles
Member
Google AIPAC.
Like I suggested it, make a temporal UN government or better yet hold a referendum and give the question to each individual Palestinian.
It wasn't a political failure due to Israel & Netanyahu not wanting peace. They got exactly what they wanted. That's why I have been telling you, you guys are not interested in peace and the West bank proves this.
Right wing parties are allowed to exist. There is quite a few of them in the EU right now. The point you made here is completely false.
The peace treaty and their conditions were realistic due to the evidence that everyone saw. When over 70 million people die in WW2, then it's fair to say that having an army reduction agreement is realistic and fair. Again this is the difference between reality and fantasy.
Reality for Israel is that they are not under threat, and haven't been for a very long time. And they will certainly not be wiped of the map by a couple of farmers with AK's. The difference here is that Europe was under actual threat, backed by evidence all over the place. Israel threat is born from rhetoric which has no base (A fantasy about Armageddon (which they most likely picked up from the awful WW2)). Here we are comparing two incidents, one that caused 70 million deaths in roughly 5 years, compared to 19 deaths from terrorist in the same time period.
And that's what I mean about fantasy. I mean you don't actually believe this bolded line do you? Here we have an Israeli, living in comfort, access to the internet, jobs, healthcare, food and a prospect for the future and saying things like "terrorize our citizens". If you are so terrorized I suggest you swap places for a year with one Palestine citizen. And then see who is actually terrorized.
I do have a question for you. Can you answer me the question I asked in post 366 under the map image, about who is actually being wiped from the earth/map. Just interested to see how far into the delusion are you. Thanks
I meant to compare the argument that, if we can sort out our issues after WW2, which was an actual war between surviving or being wiped off the face of the earth and not some local land dispute, you guys have been dicking about for the last 50+ years. The point I wanted to make, Europe wanted peace in the end and made sure that there would be peace. Israel does not want peace quite clearly, if they can't agree on this relatively small issue of a couple of terrorists.
The UN can barely take care of themselves. The IDF had to rescue them multiple times. They won be able to fight Hamas just like they couldnt and didn't fight the hezbollah in the DMZ between Israel and lebanon.
NATO could work though.
Right wing? Yes. Nazi or Hamas level of racist parties? No. Those were disassembled.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/annihilate-israel-hamas-leaders-tell-gaza-youth/ ( i already quotes this before)
Wow thanks.Reality for Israel is that they are not under threat, and haven't been for a very long time. And they will certainly not be wiped of the map by a couple of farmers with AK's. The difference here is that Europe was under actual threat, backed by evidence all over the place. Israel threat is born from rhetoric which has no base (A fantasy about Armageddon (which they most likely picked up from the awful WW2)). Here we are comparing two incidents, one that caused 70 million deaths in roughly 5 years, compared to 19 deaths from farmers in the same time period.
And that's what I mean about fantasy. I mean you don't actually believe this bolded line do you? Here we have an Israeli, living in comfort, access to the internet, jobs, healthcare, food and a prospect for the future and saying things like "terrorize our citizens". If you are so terrorized I suggest you swap places for a year with one Palestine citizen. And then see who is actually terrorized.
I do have a question for you. Can you answer me the question I asked in post 366 under the map image, about who is actually being wiped from the earth/map. Just interested to see how far into the delusion are you. Thanks
Nobody is getting wiped off the map. Any treaty with the palestinians will include retreating to '67 lines. Just like we left gaza, we will leave the west bank as well.
There is absolutely nothing there for us and the settlements are bloody stupid and should be removed.
Israel wants peace. The Palestinian leaders In gaza don't. The West bank is Israel's failure.
You think Israel wants peace while acknowledging they failed with the West Bank? Why do you think your country "failed"? Israel knows exactly what it is doing with the West Bank, and it's not pursuing peace.
The short version would be due to Israel's internal politics and government structure.
To be a prime minister you need to for a coalition of at least 61 out of 120.
In the current government Netanyahu has exactly 61 out of 120, that is due to him basically bribing the religious parties and promising to give them whatever they want. (for example the 300 apartments that are being built)
In 2009 "Kadima" the party established by ariel sharon who initiated the disengagement from gaza got the most votes. But their leader Tzipi Livni acted in a very stupid and arrogant way. The other party leaders hated her guts and she failed to form a coalition. So even though she got the most votes she ended up losing.
Netanyahu is a brilliant diplomat and knows how to keep his ass on the prime minister's chair even when he doesn't have the support of the majority.
Next elections he should be gone. I hope.
Also, you are referring to Israel as a single entity, but its not true. There are various parties and people with various opinions. Overall, I think that the majority of the population wants peace and is in favor of the 2 state solution.
But our internal politics are quite messed up, and other issues are intefering as well. For example some of the left wing parties are socialists (some to the extreme). A left wing capitalist might vote for the likud even though he doesn't agree with their agenda regarding the palestinians.
Netanyahu is a brilliant diplomat? I hope you meant politician because otherwise you are living in some sort of fantasy land.
I meant politician - he is brilliant at manipulating internal affairs.
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