Honestly man, I'm digging it. The premise sold me and the controls are pretty novel. They're not perfect but they work and the balance of systems is borderline superb. There's a learning curve when playing with the CC and the graphics mix pretty good art with some drabber tones. Still, the looks works well and the voice acting/score ties the aesthetic together well.
Also, with a great premise, the storytelling could be better. The writing never really grabs on but at least the characters outside the lead hit their marks to a relative degree.
God damn it... This may have pushed me over the edge.
I think I'll sleep on it, and probably decide on some games to sell off to help offset the cost a bit. It helps that this will probably end up being rare and expensive someday.
God damn it... This may have pushed me over the edge.
I think I'll sleep on it, and probably decide on some games to sell off to help offset the cost a bit. It helps that this will probably end up being rare and expensive someday.
You'll probably make money on it anyway considering the probable print run, lol.
It feels legitimately PS2-ish in the best type of way but also modern and well, f'ed up enough to earn a cult-status. Really, those meat-eating scenes are pretty evocative for a game.
I'm... not really sure what I can say here. It wasn't printed in pessimistically low quantities, if that's what you're asking, and I don't think it's going to become particularly rare or hard to find, but that really all depends on how many people buy it. If it sells really poorly, it'll be easy to find... and if it sells out, we'll probably do a reprint and it'll be easy to find then as well... but if it's somewhere in the middle -- not enough to warrant a reprint, but enough that there aren't many copies left on shelves -- then yeah, it could get pretty hard to find.
Ideally, we'll print and reprint just enough copies of it so that everyone who wants the game can get it... and then by the time it does go out-of-print and get hard to find, it'll be because everybody already bought it.
We're certainly not going to make it an intentional rarity or anything, though. That's not our style.
Haha. For what its worth, it never entered my mind to think you might intentionally undership the game. I was just curious if we were going to be looking at a Xenoblade situation here. I guess I'm just used to Nintendo games going out of print and becoming rare. And as this is a very late Wii release, I have to believe this game is going to go under a ton of people's radars.
But thank you for your response. It's good to know you'll do a second run if the demand is there.
So does Elena ever actually make bed covers? Gave her the red and patterned fabric so far, asked her to make a bed cover and nada happens.
I am on the 6th tower now and the towers designs are definitely getting better.
The only thing I am not liking so far is the crafting time sink. I have already spent over half my current playtime backtracking in order to collect materials for weapon strengthening and item crafting.
Just finished the second Tower. Enjoying it a decent amount, was worried with people having said it's the worst of the rainfall collection but it's definitely a nice action game. Kind of feels like what a 3D Castlevania should be like. Definitely like the sword and chain aspect.
Is there really a necessity to upgrade the sword though? Both bosses so far I've killed with just using the chain so far.
Also the item descriptions are so vague, borderline useless without a FAQ. Also not sure how I feel about the crafting yet.
For later bosses you have to whack them a bit with a weapon before their weak spots are vulnerable. No clue if weapon power matters though.
Also, later enemies, espeically the bigger ones go down way quicker with an upgraded weapon. The quicker you kill them the less you have to worry about Elena's beast meter.
I actually liked the fact that the chain was basically the only thing you usually use in boss fights.
You should upgrade whenever you can though; enemies are tougher later on, especially when they get that purple haze thing about them.
If you want to get all the endings, you should keep Elena's affinity as low as you can on your first playthrough, otherwise you will have to replay quite a large chuck of the game to see all of the endings.
I'm just going to quote myself from the older tread. If you need help with materials, upgrades... the spreadsheet probably has the answer.
What ending you get depends on your affinity with Elena and how many pieces of Master flesh you have given her. Below are the requirements which do spoil when (which chapter) the endings occur.
S affinity level 8 or more Final chapter
A affinity level 6 - 8 Final chapter
B affinity level 4 - 6 Final chapter
C affinity level 3 - 0 Final chapter
D affinity level 1 - 0 Give her the 9th piece of Master Flesh.
Game Over Let her convert into the beast anytime
Pandora's Tower is touching me in all of the right no-no places.
I know it's been said before, but the game really has something of a Falcom/Cavia thing going on for it. It's hard to really touch on why, but yeah, if you like that kind of "waaay off-center" Japanese action/adventure/RPG hybrid dripping in utterly bizarre visual and story elements, you are doing yourself a huge disservice by not playing this game.
Whaaaaaaaat?!?! The story in The Last Story is not a mess at all -- in fact, it holds together better than just about any other JRPG storyline told in the past decade! The complaints people have about it tend to be that it's too "small" a story, focused on overly ordinary people doing overly ordinary things, but I think that's part of its charm. Its characters are believable and relatable, and its events are all given appropriate weight and backstory to fit into the game world without seeming contrived or convenient. It's one of those rare instances where you have a story told with absolutely NO plot holes and NO irrelevant details, and as a result, it's very no-nonsense, concise and extraordinarily immersive. At least, to me.
Either way, calling it "a total mess" makes no sense at all. That suggests a story rife with pacing issues and plot inconsistencies, whereas The Last Story is more like a meticulously-crafted short story with no filler.
Also, I'm going to have to strongly disagree that it's "too easy to get poorly-balanced stats," as frankly, I don't see how that's even possible. The Last Story may be a lot of things, but (save for some optional scenarios) challenging is not one of them -- it's a story to be experienced, not an obstacle to be surmounted, and it's very generous with its "extra lives." I really can't see the majority of players winding up with poorly-balanced stats at all.
Getting back on topic, Pandora's Tower is indeed a very different game from The Last Story -- it's longer, more action-packed and less story-centric. Illusion of Gaia is a fair comparison, though I think it might be more appropriate to compare it with a top-notch Castlevania game that bases much of its dungeon design around the hookshot from Zelda.
Fundamentally, the meat of The Last Story is as an action-strategy game, not as a traditional RPG. It isn't a world where you have to manually reach the next area, wandering through other distractions along the way. The story should, ideally, be fit to that format.
Basically, I think the game tries to have a full-fledged RPG story with a wide variety of things in it, but it doesn't really have time to develop that because of the game's format. A lot of the backstory is dumped in the library. If I recall correctly, of the supporting cast, only Yurick and Mirania are really given development time. Syrenne and Lowell are entertaining, but they don't ever step out of their role as supporting cast.
The gameplay shines through its missions; from start to finish there's new stuff and different battle arrangements to act upon. The story's at its best there, too. For example, the optional
haunted mansion
chapter makes amusing use of a character's traits without interfering with his otherwise serious story. The
attack on the Gurak nation
later in the game is also a strong point because it preys on your expectations.
For contrast with another XSEED action RPG, look at Fragile Dreams. There's an overarching goal, but generally everything's handled one thing at a time until the conclusion. There's additional unrelated stuff to read, but instead of dumping it in a sideways place, it's found through items that you'd be picking up anyway.
But the worst part is that the main characters are incredibly dull despite having a strong supporting cast. I think the best scene to see it is in the marketplace early in the game. It's almost a copy of a scene in Disney's Aladdin.
The girl in disguise accidentally picks up an apple because she doesn't realize that she needs money to buy things. In Aladdin, this turned into a funny moment which showed off Aladdin's quick wit and has an interplay between the characters. The Last Story's version just ends as a socially awkward moment instead.
I can understand "mess" being too strong a word for some, but that's my experience.
I didn't say that The Last Story was hard, I said that it's kind of easy to break. It's mainly due to the random stat boosting drops you find in town. If you get too many, you end up plowing through the game without the need for strategy. The game loses something. If you get too few, then it takes forever for enemies to die, so you focus less on strategy and the game loses something.
Mistwalker had the good sense to limit the amount of EXP you can get to preserve that balance, so it's a little strange that they have unlimited stat drops. They aren't really an issue at first, so the game really shines at the start.
Anyhow, late response to an unrelated topic. I guess we should continue this via PM if you still feel like discussing it.
Fundamentally, the meat of The Last Story is as an action-strategy game, not as a traditional RPG. It isn't a world where you have to manually reach the next area, wandering through other distractions along the way. The story should, ideally, be fit to that format.
Basically, I think the game tries to have a full-fledged RPG story with a wide variety of things in it, but it doesn't really have time to develop that because of the game's format. A lot of the backstory is dumped in the library. If I recall correctly, of the supporting cast, only Yurick and Mirania are really given development time. Syrenne and Lowell are entertaining, but they don't ever step out of their role as supporting cast.
The gameplay shines through its missions; from start to finish there's new stuff and different battle arrangements to act upon. The story's at its best there, too. For example, the optional
haunted mansion
chapter makes amusing use of a character's traits without interfering with his otherwise serious story. The
attack on the Gurak nation
later in the game is also a strong point because it preys on your expectations.
For contrast with another XSEED action RPG, look at Fragile Dreams. There's an overarching goal, but generally everything's handled one thing at a time until the conclusion. There's additional unrelated stuff to read, but instead of dumping it in a sideways place, it's found through items that you'd be picking up anyway.
But the worst part is that the main characters are incredibly dull despite having a strong supporting cast. I think the best scene to see it is in the marketplace early in the game. It's almost a copy of a scene in Disney's Aladdin.
The girl in disguise accidentally picks up an apple because she doesn't realize that she needs money to buy things. In Aladdin, this turned into a funny moment which showed off Aladdin's quick wit and has an interplay between the characters. The Last Story's version just ends as a socially awkward moment instead.
I can understand "mess" being too strong a word for some, but that's my experience.
I didn't say that The Last Story was hard, I said that it's kind of easy to break. It's mainly due to the random stat boosting drops you find in town. If you get too many, you end up plowing through the game without the need for strategy. The game loses something. If you get too few, then it takes forever for enemies to die, so you focus less on strategy and the game loses something.
Mistwalker had the good sense to limit the amount of EXP you can get to preserve that balance, so it's a little strange that they have unlimited stat drops. They aren't really an issue at first, so the game really shines at the start.
Anyhow, late response to an unrelated topic. I guess we should continue this via PM if you still feel like discussing it.
I think it's better we just agree to disagree on this one. I actually find that Syrenne, Lowell and all the other supporting characters are extremely well-developed and likable, and while they may just be "supporting cast," they have wonderfully fleshed-out personalities all the same, such that you really feel like you know them as human beings by the end of the adventure. I also feel the story development is perfectly paced, and the "awkward" scenes you're describing (including the Aladdin example you gave) are charming, fit perfectly with the characters' personalities, and... basically just push all the right buttons for me.
So in the end, I just don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this one. I can't actually comprehend how you could find the story to be that much of a "mess," as to me, it is absolutely the exact opposite. It is one of the most artful, well-paced and well-thought-out short stories in gaming, and really shows what video gaming as a medium can accomplish in terms of drama.
Please understand, though, that I'm not trying to one-up you in any way by saying this. I'm just trying to illustrate that despite playing the same game, we obviously interpreted it and experienced it in vastly different ways.
I very much appreciate you taking the time to explain your views on the matter, though!
Not to derail the thread too much, but I thought The Last Story was the weakest of the three games. Well, it was my least favorite of the bunch, I guess you could say. I thought the whole angle with the entire band of mercenaries wanting to become knights was just about as standard as you get. I see shit like this in RPG Maker demos I try and the overarching plot in the Last Story isn't much more interesting than what the Average Joe is making down the street.
Grant it, the island lore was the most interesting thing about the game, but it's true that most of it was delegated to a single screen library. I was more interested in the world surrounding the island and the lizard race stuff below the city streets than the actual characters and their problems. The problem, for me anyway, was that the game never sailed in that direction. I wanted to know more about the "Empire", was it, that had some influence on the island/story? I don't know, I do agree with the other poster who mentioned that the game shined the most during some of its optional missions, however, but the main cast and plot thread left a lot to be desired, for me anyway.
It did have its moments here and there, but I felt fairly unfulfilled by the end. I'd like to think of Last Story as a "safe" game, from a narrative/story perspective. There's just enough of that "Final Fantasy/Sakaguchi" flavor in there too to pull in those Final Fantasy fans who haven't played many other RPGs or don't know any better. Throw in some Nobuo tracks that ALMOST sound like lost music from Final Fantasy X and you'll find your audience.
I will agree that the game was paced VERY well. I definitely didn't stop playing it until I saw the end, but after it was over, as I said, I walked away unfulfilled. It's absolutely worth playing and I wouldn't say it was a mess, but it's just another RPG to me. Nothing special.
Grant it, the island lore was the most interesting thing about the game, but it's true that most of it was delegated to a single screen library. I was more interested in the world surrounding the island and the lizard race stuff below the city streets than the actual characters and their problems. The problem, for me anyway, was that the game never sailed in that direction. I wanted to know more about the "Empire", was it, that had some influence on the island/story?
That's actually a good point, but I think like anything else, that can be seen as a good or a bad thing depending on what you're looking for.
Not to deviate even more from the topic, but it reminds me of the Makoto Shinkai anime movie The Place Promised In Our Early Days. The movie is set in an alternate present day where Japan has been divided by war, with Hokkaido seceding from the union and building an enormous tower for unknown purposes (though it's presumed to be a weapon of some sort). The setting is really fascinating... but it's largely unexplored, as the story is centered around three high school students: two boys who are building a plane in their spare time, and a girl with whom both are in love, but who falls into a coma from which it seems she may never awaken.
The characters are two "everymans" and an "everywoman," and despite the setting and a few sci-fi elements here and there, the story is largely just one of love and loss -- absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, especially for Shinkai (whose movies all pretty much center around that concept).
A lot of people criticize the film for this, but there's a whole other contingent (myself included) who praise it for creating a really interesting world, but not "gloating about it," as it were. I guess I just really like the idea of crafting a world, but designing a very small story to take place within it -- something simple and everyday to which anyone and everyone can relate, but set in a fantastical world where the impossible CAN happen (even if it doesn't). There's just something magical to me about showing everyday life in a fantasy world, rather than always focusing on the Chosen One or some adventuresome do-gooder off to save the universe. And yeah, being able to fully explore the world is cool and all... but if you're playing as an everyman who grew up in that world, what business would you have exploring every nook and cranny of it? It would be cool for the player, sure, but it would take you out of the moment... and I can totally respect anyone for choosing the artistry of their work over what may, admittedly, make for better (or at least more far-reaching) writing/game design.
Consequently, Shinkai's next attempt at creating a fantasy world was in his most recent movie, Children Who Chase Lost Voices... and this time, he DID explore virtually every facet of the world he created. And IMHO, it's just not as good a movie -- it feels too forced, too premisey. The characters don't seem like they SHOULD be getting into these situations, but rather that they were made to for the sake of giving the audience what they thought they wanted during Place Promised. It's still a good movie... but I feel it's his least-impressive, and I'm glad to see him going more for realistic fiction in his upcoming film, The Garden of Words.
In short, both Place Promised and The Last Story represent the trend of writing a small story in a large setting -- and while that may not be something everyone is going to enjoy, I think it's a pretty gutsy thing to do, and I think it was done spectacularly in both instances.
Definitely something to keep in mind before playing The Last Story, though... and if that's not for you, Pandora's Tower is likely to be much more enjoyable. It's still a "small story" in a way... but it's certainly not an "everyday" tale by any stretch of the imagination!
@wyrdwad
Actually, I wasn't really trying to argue with you. You'd posted a pretty solid response, so I thought it merited an explanation of my "mess" comment.
I think the game has certain flaws due to the developers' inexperience with this action format. But everything that excited me when I first saw the Sakuguchi Ustream is there.
The Last Story 2 is something I'd really like to happen because of that.
I thought the whole angle with the entire band of mercenaries wanting to become knights was just about as standard as you get. I see shit like this in RPG Maker demos I try and the overarching plot in the Last Story isn't much more interesting than what the Average Joe is making down the street.
Finished the first tower today and I'm digging it. The only question I have is about the affinity. I want to get the S rank ending, but how hard is that to achieve? Will I have to go out of my way or is that easily done just playing the game?
Finished the first tower today and I'm digging it. The only question I have is about the affinity. I want to get the S rank ending, but how hard is that to achieve? Will I have to go out of my way or is that easily done just playing the game?
It shouldn't be too hard if you keep an eye on the monster gauge and give Elena gifts. Talking to her also raises the affinity. I think you can do it 2 or 3 times before departing. At worst you will have to replay the final part twice since near the end you get an item that boost Elena's affinity by 2 levels (out of 8). Ending A is better anyway.
I finished the game yesterday afternoon and really enjoyed it all the way through. Absolutely fantastic game that I am having trouble finding any faults with. As others have mentioned, the setting and atmosphere is very interesting and mysterious, and the structure of the game is like no other. This has been the biggest surprise of the year for me mostly because there hasn't been much talk on the game considering it's been available in English for so long before the NA release, generally the consensus seems to be that it's the worst of the three op rainfall games, though I think it's leagues beyond the other two (though I admit I didn't finish Xeno). I really encourage anybody who is considering this game to definitely give it a try, especially for fans of Castlevania/Zelda/Demons Souls.. even a bit of Shadow of the Colossus kinda vibe in there. Very very happy that this was brought over, really nice ending to the wii for me.
I finished the game yesterday afternoon and really enjoyed it all the way through. Absolutely fantastic game that I am having trouble finding any faults with. As others have mentioned, the setting and atmosphere is very interesting and mysterious, and the structure of the game is like no other. This has been the biggest surprise of the year for me mostly because there hasn't been much talk on the game considering it's been available in English for so long before the NA release, generally the consensus seems to be that it's the worst of the three op rainfall games, though I think it's leagues beyond the other two (though I admit I didn't finish Xeno). I really encourage anybody who is considering this game to definitely give it a try, especially for fans of Castlevania/Zelda/Demons Souls.. even a bit of Shadow of the Colossus kinda vibe in there. Very very happy that this was brought over, really nice ending to the wii for me.
Thats the thing, these games should never should have been tied together as they have been. They should have had their own proper launches as new IPs. Nintendo really killed the Wii in how they botched the releases of these games and many others world wide. Each territory should have gotten a steady release of games to keep the console relevant. Instead of but instead marketing games like Xenoblade for Xmas, they pushed WiiMusic.
I think that's the only way back to the observatory or by killing the tower's master where it just sends you back automatically. I think they do this so you will always keep an eye on Elena's meter.
that sends you back to the observatory automatically
, but I'm not sure how common they are. You may want to save them up.
Getting back to the Observatory before Elena fully transforms is the main gameplay hook. You have to plan your excursions to the Towers carefully. Along the way, you will find doors, ladders and other shortcuts back to the Tower entrance, so the backtracking is not as time-consuming. When you return to a Tower, you begin from the entrance again, but I believe progress you make through the Towers is saved, so those shortcuts will be available.
I've beaten three Masters so far, and I am really enjoying the game. The Towers have been interesting, but not too complex, yet. It has taken me at least 2 sorties to finish a Tower, but the shortcuts really help on the return trip. I am wondering about
the red, locked doors that say I need a key to open. I have not found a single key. Are they the extra areas rumored to open after beating the game?
The Tower excursions are well-balanced with the time spent at the Observatory, talking to Elena and Mavda, getting a little bit more or the history of the world and the story. Elena is such a sympathetic character, and her transformation is almost Lovecraftain-gross. I find it a little strange that Areon has so little voice-over. I know he is supposed to be a vessel for the player, but it is especially jarring when questioning Mavda; her responses are fully voiced, but Areon's questions are text-only. He does have some limited VO in cutscenes, so I am wondering if this has some deeper symbolism.
This is a very unique game. The comparisons to Castlevania and Shadow of the Colossus is apt, but the static camera angle and glittering pickups feel like old Resident Evil games. And the characters are intriguing.
that sends you back to the observatory automatically
, but I'm not sure how common they are. You may want to save them up.
Getting back to the Observatory before Elena fully transforms is the main gameplay hook. You have to plan your excursions to the Towers carefully. Along the way, you will find doors, ladders and other shortcuts back to the Tower entrance, so the backtracking is not as time-consuming. When you return to a Tower, you begin from the entrance again, but I believe progress you make through the Towers is saved, so those shortcuts will be available.
You will checkpoint save automatically when you leave the tower. All progress in terms of doors/ladders unlocked remain forever. Only monsters/loot will reset.
It shouldn't be too hard if you keep an eye on the monster gauge and give Elena gifts. Talking to her also raises the affinity. I think you can do it 2 or 3 times before departing. At worst you will have to replay the final part twice since near the end you get an item that boost Elena's affinity by 2 levels (out of 8). Ending A is better anyway.
Got my copy today! Beat the first boss already! I'm liking it a lot. I'm getting SotC vibes~
I'm not sure about the motion control. I think it may just be one of my Wiimotes that is acting up. :S Seemed to have been a bit better when i switched. Anyways I'm looking forward to playing more!!
Played through the first tower today. Decent so far, don't really have any complaints as of now. Really interested to see how complex some of the later towers and bosses get.
Beat the first tower last night. I feel bad for underestimating this game. It seems like thought went into the details of everything.
I can totally see why people could like this better than The Last Story or Xenoblade. It's a full-fledged game to just about every capacity as far as I can see.
The environment design is the best thing about the game so far. It's a shame that Ganbarion was stuck doing licensed stuff if they're capable of producing this.
Partway through the second tower. A few questions/concerns.
- I can't figure out what all of the abilities are for. Specifically: is there any reason to do a normal combo instead of a charged combo? To bind any enemy instead of two? Is there any reason to use the chain shot?
- Is the chain meter only for increasing the tear attack's power?
- Does Elena only start to transform when the time meter hits the coloured portion?
- Are those smoke bomb things to return to the observatory infinite? Is there another quick way to go back?
- Can I just pump Elena full of berries and get max relationship that way?
Partway through the second tower. A few questions/concerns.
- I can't figure out what all of the abilities are for. Specifically: is there any reason to do a normal combo instead of a charged combo? To bind any enemy instead of two? Is there any reason to use the chain shot?
- Is the chain meter only for increasing the tear attack's power?
- Does Elena only start to transform when the time meter hits the coloured portion?
- Are those smoke bomb things to return to the observatory infinite? Is there another quick way to go back?
- Can I just pump Elena full of berries and get max relationship that way?
I played this game near the European release so my memory may not be 100% accurate.
-If you have the time, always do a charged combo. Binding just restricts enemy movement so it depends on your playstyle. I usually bound one enemy and then pulled. You can use the chain shot to get rid of the exploding plants, enemy projectiles... I barely used it in regular combat.
-I think so.
-She will start to transform a little bit after the time meter hits the coloured part.
-You can get them from Mavda later in the game buy they are expensive (2000) or synthesize them but it's a PiA. You should save them up for the later towers when you will really need them
-You could but it would take a lot of time. It's better to give her other gifts too; it's faster and you get more dialogue.
Another tip: zoom in on the corners of the rooms, where you break the chains, to find items.
I love this game, but I really fell short on the promise of finding shorter routes within the towers to get back to the observatory faster. In fact I'd say the levels are pretty linear and break that linear pacing up by having to return to the observatory to feed Alena.
So I just finished the 2nd boss. My OCD is kinda freaking out because I'm finding so many rooms I cannot enter because they're locked from the other side, or I need a key. I have found 0 keys so far so I'm not sure what that's about.
Am I right in assuming I'll be going back to each of these towers later? or what's the deal?
Overall I feel like I'm missing a ton of stuff and I'm not sure if I should press on to the next tower or go back and just keep exploring the old ones.
I didn't realize Mazda was making red keys now. I thought they only made cars.
(Sorry, had to! Heheheheh)
Also, off-topic, but is that a Robbit avatar from Jumping Flash?! If so, you're awesome, because the Jumping Flash games kick serious ass. Why hasn't that series been resurrected for PS3 yet?! Sony needs to get on that, pronto!
This may have pushed me over the edge.
