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Paradox Grand Strategy - Thread of Fighting WW2 as Bithynia

Mr.Mike

Member
Well, I hope you're all eager to see brief glimpses of off-screen game play of HoI4!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ5aNIEDbPw&feature=youtu.be&t=19m40s

And some screen grabs that were conveniently posted on Reddit.

zspZcpa.png
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I thought this was a Paradox game, not a Firaxis game.
 

Walshicus

Member
Looks like "East Vs West: A Hearts of Iron Game" is having a bit of a weird development process. They're no longer committing to a commercial release, but they're running a pay-what-you-want Open Beta in March. It's developed by BL Logic and published by Paradox, but 100% of the contributions made by players will go to BL Logic.

I kind of get the impression that Hearts of Iron IV is responsible in some way for this, which is a real shame. The Cold War period is severely under-served.



Anyway, details here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ure-of-East-vs-West-The-Beta-and-Release-Date

I might make a thread for it when it's available to the public. The development team behind the game deserve at least some return on their work. Even if it turns out to be buggy, I imagine I'll still put in more time than I do most games. That's worth at least £15 from me... Plus a successful Beta could spur a full release.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...rts-of-Iron-IV-Development-Diary-1-Our-Vision

Vision
Our goal for Hearts of Iron IV is to do something similar to what we did with Crusader King II and Europa Universalis IV - keep the flavor and complexity of the game intact while making the game much more streamlined and easier to learn, with much improved interfaces. We also aim for a fresh playing experience so there will be changes from the previous game.

More focus on planning and high level decisions.
Hearts of Iron III could either be played with full manual control, where micromanagement would be pretty heavy (often to the point where you would struggle to pay attention to all aspects of the game) or with AI assistance, where your control over the systems you surrendered to the AI was very limited. We are developing a planning system that gives you greater control while not being as taxing as the detailed manual play from the last Hearts of Iron game. We want to give you time to look at the bigger picture. In my opinion, this also adds a lot of immersion, since it feels more like I am guiding a military campaign rather just shuffling units between provinces.
For the micro-managers out there - you can still do very detailed plans and update them in real-time, which will basically work like the old manual control but the system will reward successful longer term plans, so expect to have a few things to learn! There won't be any large "automate this" buttons in the game. We want all parts to be fun and playable. If they are not, they get redesigned or replaced.

Less railroading – more historical feel
A big problem with historical games is that people know what happened, especially in such a well-documented period as World War II. The leaders of those days did not have crystal balls or an active forum of amateur historians from the future telling them what would happen next. This is something that we need to deal with without losing the sense of place and realism that people have come to appreciate about our games. A lot of things will require gradual changes and actually living through events, which should give a much better historical feel as well as creating a game where it is easier to try out alternate paths of history and not feel that the only road to success is following whatever plan Eisenhower had.

 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Usually, when I read stuff like this "keep the flavor and complexity of the game intact while making the game much more streamlined and easier to learn", I get anxious because it reeks of "casualization". But, as a Paradox novice, if CKII and EU4 are "easy to learn" I can't imagine what EU3 and CKI were like.
 
Usually, when I read stuff like this "keep the flavor and complexity of the game intact while making the game much more streamlined and easier to learn", I get anxious because it reeks of "casualization". But, as a Paradox novice, if CKII and EU4 are "easy to learn" I can't imagine what EU3 and CKI were like.

EU4 isn't really any easier to learn than EU3, it's more complicated than vanilla EU3 if anything. Paradox's improvements in this area mostly come from interface improvements and some tutorials that they never update when they change the game.

HOI could actually use some improvements here, HOI3 made the series incredibly dense even for me, who played a ton of HOI and HOI2.
 

Kabouter

Member
EU4 isn't really any easier to learn than EU3, it's more complicated than vanilla EU3 if anything. Paradox's improvements in this area mostly come from interface improvements and some tutorials that they never update when they change the game.

HOI could actually use some improvements here, HOI3 made the series incredibly dense even for me, who played a ton of HOI and HOI2.

I really couldn't disagree any more with this. EU3 is a micromanagement disaster, that got worse and worse as they released more and more add-ons. Nothing was transparent, and yes, interface is a fundamental component in how easy a game is to learn. In terms of complexity, EU4 is easily beyond vanilla EU3, but it's a far more elegant design that means that that complexity does not turn into inaccessibility, as it did as EU3 progressed with add-ons.

As far as HoI3 goes, they really didn't do a very good job of interface design, but I thought it far easier to master than HoI2, it took me far more time to really get good at HoI2, although with HoI2's 'realism', once you got it, you could do far more ridiculous things than you could in HoI3. They clearly went for a more believable design in 3. Either way, I enjoyed both 2 and 3 in the end, but I think they both went too far in extreme directions, hopefully with 4 they find a healthy medium, like they did with EU4 compared to EU2/3. Paradox has really been upping their game in recent years, so I'm hopeful.
 

Volodja

Member
I remember that once I manged to get a good campaign going in HoI3 after all the pain I went through to learn how to micromanage all that shit (I left nothing to the AI).
Then I stopped playing for quite a while and when I tried to come back to it I was back to 0. I pretty much stopped playing the game.
 

Kabouter

Member
I remember that once I manged to get a good campaign going in HoI3 after all the pain I went through to learn how to micromanage all that shit (I left nothing to the AI).
Then I stopped playing for quite a while and when I tried to come back to it I was back to 0. I pretty much stopped playing the game.

I always used the AI in HoI3, but never for everything (and never for intelligence/production/diplomacy/research. Fuck the AI there). I'd always leave the AI to manage the front in broad terms, then lead one or more sets of mobile divisions myself to force breakthroughs and the like. Similar with air/naval power as well.
 

Sub Zero

his body's cold as ice, but he's got a heart of gold
So I recently got into Paradox Grand strategy games. I started with CKII, got my ass handed to me a couple of times but now I understood most of the game's mechanics and I'm getting pretty good at it. I want to move on to EU IV but I heard it's a lot more difficult than CKII, are there any good tutorial series for the game because the in-game ones suck as expected...Also any of the major DLC worth picking up?
 
EU4 isn't really any easier to learn than EU3, it's more complicated than vanilla EU3 if anything.

The move from yearly tax to monthly, minting removal and the little tabs that explain what's making everyone so butthurt made everything a lot more manageable.

I want to move on to EU IV but I heard it's a lot more difficult than CKII,

Nah. just realise that monarch mana is everything and that's why republics are a bit shit in EU4.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
There's one advantage of republics though, which is that you never have to worry about a weak heir or a regency council.

Fuck regency councils man, the worst.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
There's one advantage of republics though, which is that you never have to worry about a weak heir or a regency council.

Fuck regency councils man, the worst.

Those regency councils really do ruin my rate of expansion. I'm playing Ottomans and trying to be constantly expanding but then you get hit with a regency council and you're forced to just sit around for a while. At least it's good for recovering money and manpower.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
I always seem to have really shitty luck whenever I play the Zoroastrians in CK2. Usually this is due to forces far outside of my control. This time the perpetrator was Byzantium, who somehow acquired the Duchy of Jerusalem within a few years after the start of the game, prematurely triggering a Renewed Jihad. But rather than calling a Jihad against Byzantium, the Caliph calls one against me. The first Jihad was easy to fend off, but I predict many more in the future, and they're difficult to beat because the Muslims always blob hopelessly out of control.
So I recently got into Paradox Grand strategy games. I started with CKII, got my ass handed to me a couple of times but now I understood most of the game's mechanics and I'm getting pretty good at it. I want to move on to EU IV but I heard it's a lot more difficult than CKII, are there any good tutorial series for the game because the in-game ones suck as expected...Also any of the major DLC worth picking up?
Arumba has a decent tutorial series on Youtube. But like always I think the best way to learn a new strategy game is to simply watch other people do a let's play.
 

Walshicus

Member
It seems to me like this project has been struggling for some time now. Perhaps they should have cut it off sooner, but at least they tried. I'm sure there will be fan made mods for HoI4 that cover the cold war.

I don't know, Paradox the *publisher* don't come off very well here. The whole situation with this game - which looked a hell of a lot more interesting than another bloody Hearts of Iron game - couldn't have been handled worse. They shouldn't have announced a public beta as a consolation for a lack of "retail" release if they didn't actually have something to show.

Maybe I'm being hard on them, but recently a lot of Paradox decisions - both as a publisher and a developer - have pissed me off. This, the awful state of EU4 and the huge tease of a space grand strategy title only to churn out a Viking RPG nobody asked for and a HoI sequel nobody needs.

Bah!
 

fanboi

Banned
I don't know, Paradox the *publisher* don't come off very well here. The whole situation with this game - which looked a hell of a lot more interesting than another bloody Hearts of Iron game - couldn't have been handled worse. They shouldn't have announced a public beta as a consolation for a lack of "retail" release if they didn't actually have something to show.

Maybe I'm being hard on them, but recently a lot of Paradox decisions - both as a publisher and a developer - have pissed me off. This, the awful state of EU4 and the huge tease of a space grand strategy title only to churn out a Viking RPG nobody asked for and a HoI sequel nobody needs.

Bah!

Well the game was behind schedule and they tried to save it they said and we don't really now how far the game was (maybe a buggy mess?).

Awful state of EU4? I am quite a noob in that game but it is fully playable...
 

Walshicus

Member
Well the game was behind schedule and they tried to save it they said and we don't really now how far the game was (maybe a buggy mess?).

Awful state of EU4? I am quite a noob in that game but it is fully playable...

They have *no* idea what they want to do with EU4. Monarch Points as a mechanic might sound good on paper but it makes the game tedious compared to its predecessors. Every other patch completely reworks how expansion works, and again pretty much every recent patch has broken something major (most recent being alliances). Conquest of Paradise sounded good on paper, but look at how naff the key feature - random new world - has ended up being? The new landmasses look rubbish! There's a fan made mod which generates a better random world than the developers who made the game came up with in their first expansion.
 

fanboi

Banned
They have *no* idea what they want to do with EU4. Monarch Points as a mechanic might sound good on paper but it makes the game tedious compared to its predecessors. Every other patch completely reworks how expansion works, and again pretty much every recent patch has broken something major (most recent being alliances). Conquest of Paradise sounded good on paper, but look at how naff the key feature - random new world - has ended up being? The new landmasses look rubbish! There's a fan made mod which generates a better random world than the developers who made the game came up with in their first expansion.

But the game is fun, playable and... just working.
 

DrSlek

Member
Okay, Rajas of India and Wealth of Nations has tempered my disappointment with these announcements a tad.


Maybe I just need to start working on that Star Trek mod for EU IV I've been wanting to make for ages now.

Ck2 being my favourite game, Rajas has be salivating.
I wonder if the game will be expanded again later to include China and Mongolia?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I'd love to play the Mongols at the dawn of their empire.

Fuck Casus Bellis, TAKE EVERYTHING.
 
I don't know, Paradox the *publisher* don't come off very well here. The whole situation with this game - which looked a hell of a lot more interesting than another bloody Hearts of Iron game - couldn't have been handled worse. They shouldn't have announced a public beta as a consolation for a lack of "retail" release if they didn't actually have something to show.

Maybe I'm being hard on them, but recently a lot of Paradox decisions - both as a publisher and a developer - have pissed me off. This, the awful state of EU4 and the huge tease of a space grand strategy title only to churn out a Viking RPG nobody asked for and a HoI sequel nobody needs.

Bah!


How much you wanna bet that in the new trade/navy expansion they still won't add a Reserve/Laid up/Mothball fleet button.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Iron-IV-Development-Diary-2-The-Tools-of-War

podcat said:
Welcome to the second development diary for Hearts of Iron IV! Today, I am going dive right into the meaty stuff and present one of the larger changes we've made to the game - equipment. It's a broad topic with many implications for how the rest of the game is played, so my goal is to present the general idea without digging into all the details just yet. But don't worry, there will be more details than you can shake a field-marshal's baton at in future diaries!

Production
We wanted a more interesting industry model that offered a compelling reason not to always use the latest technology, as well as adding more unit flavor in HoI4. To accomplish this we developed a model where you no longer build full divisions and aircraft wings one at a time; instead, you create production lines to pump out individual vehicles. The longer you run a single production line the more efficient it gets at producing that piece of equipment, and the choice of when to switch over to, say, a newer tank model becomes tricky. Is the war effort best served by a shiny new Tiger that can outclass the competition, or would you rather have 20 Panzer IVs? You will have to make choices like this. Upgrading your equipment now means replacing your old models at the front with new tank designs, for example. The old ones can be put in reserve, sent to less important places, or perhaps given as aid to an ally.

This means that a division is basically an assortment of different equipment combined with men who operate them. Most of the stats of a division will come from equipment, so a panzer division without tanks will not be particularly fit for duty. As for exactly what equipment is used by each division, it will depend on how you have structured your divisions. At the smallest level, we are looking at battalion types that make up your divisions determining how much you need of everything, but a division is still the smallest unit that can be moved around the map. For example, adding an extra battalion of artillery to a division means that it will now also require a few more men and a specific number of artillery cannons that you will need to produce before that battalion will be effective. We’ll talk more about this in a later diary.

Technology
Equipment appears all through the new technology trees. The idea is that unlocking a new piece of equipment should be very visible, and it should be very clear what you will get. Here is a screenshot showing what the armored tech tree looks like for Germany:

attachment.php


Armored technology is based around chassis that you unlock. Each of the chassis has 4 subtechs, each of which unlocks a variant. So, for example, once you have unlocked the Panzer III tank you can research the tank destroyer variant, StuG III. The StuG III was a Panzer III chassis with the turret removed and a larger fixed gun placed in its stead. Variants like this can be switched to production lines from the original chassis without much of penalty, so once the Panzer IV becomes your main tank and the Panzer III no longer measures up, it's a perfect time to convert to producing StuGs on those Panzer III lines. Most nations developed their vehicles like this during the war, and we wanted to include this flavor. Historically, the StuG III ended up being the most produced armored vehicle in Germany during the war.

There will also be ways to create more custom equipment variants with abilities unlocked by experience over the course of the war. This is also something we will go into more detail on in the future.

By switching to equipment from HoI3's more abstracted model, we gain a lot of cool flavor as well as introducing many of the actual interesting choices that leaders of the time had to deal with. We also believe it will make it easier to understand for new players, as well as being more immersive for players. You will now see results like "10 heavy tanks destroyed" rather than some abstracted strength percentage. Because the production models changes over to lines it also doesn't introduce any more unnecessary micro management, so it is really a win-win.

That's all from me for today, see you again in a month for another diary!

I'm hyped. I'm tempted to buy HoI3, but I think it might be best to just wait for HoI4. There's plenty of games to play in the mean time.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
http://www.incgamers.com/2014/03/crusader-kings-2-rajas-of-india-dated

Paradox’s sixth expansion for the ever-mighty Crusader Kings 2, titled Rajas of India, is due to launch next week.

Rajas of India focuses primarily on the Indian subcontinent, expanding the map size by around 50% and adding in something like 300 provinces. It features three new religions, a few bits of new functionality and UI improvements, and – naturally – war elephants.

Other than that, get yourselves ready for 25 March, because that’s when Rajas of India will be assassinating their heirs on digital distribution portals.
 

ag-my001

Member
Not yet. I set Steam not to update so I could finish off my last game. It's around 1330 and I've installed my dynasty in Asturias (main), N. Africa, Greece, and Jerusalem. For fun, the last ruler I'm controlling is married to the queen of Greece, so their son well likely reunite the realms. I've already got the export for EU4, but I'd like to finish or at least observe the last 100 years and see what happens.
 

Loona

Member
Didn't get Tajas of India, but the 75% Steam discount sure got me to go from CK2-curious to buyer.

I have a lot to learn before I manage to expand Portuguese influence across the whole Iberian peninsula.
I'd rather not do it with forged stuff, so playing with lineages and the odd plot against embarassments to certain families would be a way, but overcoming the muslim borders through peaceful methods like marriages seems unlikely.

At least the GUI has a few new things since I last tried the demo, or at least I understand it a bit better, like the (murder) plots and making sure council members aren't sent to battle to get themselves killed.

I guess some decision ranges depend on your stats?
It was weird when my religious coucilor brought me writing from another faith and the only options were arresting him and conversion - ignoring or replacing him should be equally viable.
 

DrSlek

Member
Anybody play Rajas yet?

Been playing yesterday. It's kind of difficult to get my head around the new mechanics. Easy mode seems to be starting on Sri Lanka, as nobody will bother you there until you begin expanding....much like starting in Ireland in the original game.

I guess some decision ranges depend on your stats?
It was weird when my religious councilor brought me writing from another faith and the only options were arresting him and conversion - ignoring or replacing him should be equally viable.

You councilor had converted to a heresy, which was a big faux pas back then.
If you put him in prison, he's no longer your councilor. So you'd have to choose a new one anyway. I often just chuck them in the slammer, and then force them to convert back to my faith. Then if they have a good enough learning stat, give them back their advisory position.
However there are times when converting to a heresy would be beneficial to you.
 

DrSlek

Member
Okay, so I got my head around the new mechanics....mostly.

However if you start as Buddhists, as I have, you have to rush to take over a holy site fast. If your moral authority drops below 40% some of your counties will begin getting religious unrest and death cult events, which lower income AND increase revolt risk by up to 50%. These negative traits are permanent until you raise your moral authority above 70.

I'm trying to create the Bengali Empire right now, and most of my counties are bright red on the revolt risk map. My moral authority is at 24, and Rajastan is still too unified and large to try warring over holy sites. I'm pretty much screwed until I buy every military building and essentially conquer all of india.
 
Played a game as the Aztecs in EU4.

The Portuguese walloped me in 1504 and grabbed about half my Empire (I'd defeated the Zahotecs and Mayans). Things were peaceful for a year or so, but then some Aztec Nationalists rose up and returned a 'core' Portuguese Mexican province to me. So Portuguese Mexico kept waging war against me to get it back, and I blithely paid them off each time to the tune of 1500-2600 gold, not realizing what they really wanted.

Unfortunately, while P.M. was attacking me every few years, I was struggling to Westernize. Each war would destabilize me to the point where reactionaries would force me to end the Westernization attempt. By the time I finally Westernized, it was almost 1670, and I was too far behind to take my revenge and re-establish my empire.

Has anyone ever beaten back a colonial power as an indigenous nation?
 

Kabouter

Member
Has anyone ever beaten back a colonial power as an indigenous nation?

Yeah, on like the seventh try as the Aztecs I managed to get the Sunset Invasion achievement. I got pretty lucky with some events and stuff and was able to get exploration ideas fairly quickly. Used those to get to Brazil where the first Portuguese were and westernized off there before they got a major foothold and before they had discovered Mexico itself. Got the option to go Christian during westernization and of course went for it, since it's pretty much not doable as a pagan. After that, it's about what you'd expect. First expand in the Americas, then cross the Atlantic, I went for Portugal first.
 
I shouldn't have gone for the economy ideas first. Mind you, it wasn't bad raking in huge amounts of gold (except for the inflation).

I just had an epic disaster as the Ethiopians.

I'd used my alliance with the Mamluks to protect me from the nations in the Arabian peninsula while I took over the Horn of Africa and worked my way down the coast. But those damn Mamluks pissed off the Ottomans, and very soon I found myself overwhelmed by Turkish armies. So I broke my alliance with the Mamluks and sued for peace with the Ottomans, who for their part accept a white peace.

'Course, almost as soon as last Ottoman army left my territory, several Arabian nations launched a Holy War and Ethiopia fell within half a year.
 
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