ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Really hoping that the battle planner system allows for smarter AI behaviour.
It might result in forcing humans to be dumber though
It might result in forcing humans to be dumber though
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Paradox Grand Strategy - Thread of Fighting WW2 as Bithynia
- Thread starter Walshicus
- Start date
Been there done that. I actually prefer just building up for a landing directly in France. The terrain is fantastic for tanks and you get to just encircle and destroy dozens of divisions in combat that doesn't feel super cheesy
Then again this was a CGM match so I had 30 mot and 25 arm divisions by 1940, so I guess I can't complain about cheese.
Landing in France before you draw the Axis away to the weaker fronts never works for me, unless you're playing as the Yanks and you can land full mechanised army groups with absurd levels of air-cover. But playing as the Americans in HOI is basically playing with the 'I win lol' setting on.
That said, France is far more fun to play around in. As you said, the terrain lets you engage in blitzkrieg, which is just more interesting to do than slowly crawling up the Italian peninsula. Still, nothing beats driving your Panzers through the Ukraine and encircling millions of Soviets. Just a shame that there's not a lot left for you to do after you win Barbarossa.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
If you have a fully motorized army, you have a kind of speed that lets you overrun and/or encircle huge quantities of German forces. The only major concern is really supplies, which if you've got TRA aircraft can be delivered by air to low-supply areas, and if you research basing and supply throughput techs can be mitigated. As the UK, in CGM you can get 60+ divisions fully motorized or armored by 1940-41.
In non-CGM, you might have to wait until 1942/43 to land, but with a similarly sized force. To get that scale of army, you'll want to build divisions using cav/inf/art and then upgrade them to larm/mot/spart and then later arm. You can build tons of divisions at volunteer army and upgrade them quite quickly, its more efficient than building them as armor to start with because of quirks with the practical system. Upgrading 10 brigades to larm doesn't take all that long, but gets you the full practical of having built 10 larm brigades. Then you use that practical to shirnk the time taken to upgrade all 20 divisions to ARM and boost research.
It's legitimately possible to do a counter-blitz in 1940 with UK if you plan for it, but it's much safer to build up supply and basing techs then wait for Barbarossa to crush them. Their allies will siphon into France slowly, and you can encircle+destroy them as they come in. By the time you hit the Siegfriend line, they literally won't have enough divisions to stop your advance without totally abandoning the Russian front, and you will beat the Soviets to East Prussia.
For MAXIMUM CHEESE, don't declare war on Vichy, and Vichy France will be neutral and doesn't give access to Germany + allies, so you can use that to shorten your lines and act as a wall to smash divisions up against/force them to surrender.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
I don't think there's any way to dictate specific AI behavior in HOI3 though, apart from the target province and their stance. That resulted in weird behavior, like they would launch a naval invasion when they could just walk to the specified location.Really hoping that the battle planner system allows for smarter AI behaviour.
It might result in forcing humans to be dumber though
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
My favorite was the time the AI redeployed armies from the main front with the USSR to fill a gap they broke through in Leningrad. Finland had been totally occupied and they sent a good 35-40 divisions up there, which promptly resulted in the Soviets just battering the middle all the way to Berlin.
HoI 4 went into Alpha submission yesterday.
Guessing we get a Q3 release date soon.
I like that the demilitarized rheinland is now also shown as a DMZ
Guessing we get a Q3 release date soon.
I like that the demilitarized rheinland is now also shown as a DMZ
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'm getting frustrated as France in HoI3 again. The manpower situation is just pitiful. For some reason I find it harder to win as France than as Nationalist China.
I've had EUIV in my backlog for awhile and have decided to give it a go. For the record, I'm familiar with Paradox games as I have tried CKII, HOI2, and EUIII. However, I gave up as I was having difficulty grasping some of the gameplay mechanics.
That being said, I've completed the EUIV tutorial and have started a campaign as the English during 1444 A.D. France and its allies are trying to kick me out of continental Europe while I'm trying to improve relations with my neighbours in the British Isles. What are my best options in this situation?
I also have a few questions about:
- Advisors: should I always have a full advisor slot? should I hire them soon as possible at the start of the game.
- Is colonization incredibly beneficial for my kingdom? I'd rather focus on expanding within continental Europe, but I understand that it would be difficult with the HRE and the French opposing me.
- Any other advice for playing as England would be appreciated!
I'm more familiar with the Total War games, so all of this is just confusing for me. Therefore, I'd appreciate any help.
That being said, I've completed the EUIV tutorial and have started a campaign as the English during 1444 A.D. France and its allies are trying to kick me out of continental Europe while I'm trying to improve relations with my neighbours in the British Isles. What are my best options in this situation?
I also have a few questions about:
- Advisors: should I always have a full advisor slot? should I hire them soon as possible at the start of the game.
- Is colonization incredibly beneficial for my kingdom? I'd rather focus on expanding within continental Europe, but I understand that it would be difficult with the HRE and the French opposing me.
- Any other advice for playing as England would be appreciated!
I'm more familiar with the Total War games, so all of this is just confusing for me. Therefore, I'd appreciate any help.
TiredGamer
Member
Advisors are a bonus, not a requirement. They can provide bonus monarch points and small bonuses to different things, but they are completely optional.
England's national ideas are focused on naval supremacy and overseas trade. France and several other European powers will always have superior land forces on the continent, but England / Great Britain are experts at putting troops anywhere in the world. Play to that strength to gain possession of the rest of the world and end the game rolling in gold. Build those wooden walls and utterly control the wealth and power of Europe from the seas.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
If you can afford to field a reasonable army and you're not strongly ahead of time on tech, you should be fielding an advisor. Even a single +1 advisor makes a big difference; that's an extra 12 monarch points per year. If you have, say, a +3 king, the average, a +1 advisor increases your tech speed by about 15%. If you have a +3 king, a +3 advisor increases your tech speed by 50%(!). If you can afford to do so, and England definitely can afford to do so, I would have three +1 level advisors from the game-start, and if I felt I had the finances to maintain it, I'd go for at least one +2/+3 later in the game when wealthier.
If you colonize areas which are downstream from your trade node (check the trade map, look for the Channel Node, and follow the arrows that lead into it), colonies can help you become very wealthy.
Eat up the Dutch countries where possible.
Thanks for the advice, Crab & TiredGamer. I have a few more questions:
- What's the ideal composition for my armies. Should it be composed of at least 10 regiments. And what is the ideal numbers of infantry/cavalry/and artillery that I should have in the stack.
- Can I have a stack of cavalry dedicated entirely to raiding/scorched earth?
- Same question applies for navies as well: in regards to unit compositions.
- Should I only have ships dedicated to patrolling/transportation/naval warfare?
- What's the ideal composition for my armies. Should it be composed of at least 10 regiments. And what is the ideal numbers of infantry/cavalry/and artillery that I should have in the stack.
- Can I have a stack of cavalry dedicated entirely to raiding/scorched earth?
- Same question applies for navies as well: in regards to unit compositions.
- Should I only have ships dedicated to patrolling/transportation/naval warfare?
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
I don't think there's any sort of consensus on the ideal army composition. It depends on:
- Your technology group. Western tech group can't field more cavalry than infantry without taking a penalty, but other tech groups can field more. Nomad, for instance, has no restrictions. Just makes sure you're not exceeding the infantry to cavalry limit at any point during a battle.
- Your tech level. Late game artillery is better than early game artillery. Cavalry tends to becomes slightly less useful.
- In addition, artillery takes massive casualties when deployed on your front line, so you want to build just enough artillery that it's effective from the back, but not enough that it appears on the front line in the midst of a battle.
I tend to go with an approximate 2:1:2 ratio toward the mid to late game, but I'm sure other players have their own strategies. If you want to learn more about army composition, you should go here: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Army#Composition
As for the total number of units, that depends completely on what you need. Supply limit is the biggest limiting factor, but even that can be exceeded if you really need to win a battle or a siege.
Army speed doesn't vary with unit composition, so I don't think there's any benefit to doing that. In fact, because cavalry is much more precious than infantry, it's probably better to use the latter (mercenaries are especially useful for this task).
Navy composition doesn't matter as much as army composition. There isn't a particular mix of ships that's ideal. If you want the most powerful navy, heavy ships are the best choice (light ships are faster but less powerful and tend to be dedicated toward trade anyway; they probably should't constitute your main fighting force). Galleys get a bonus for fighting in inland seas. They're cheap too, so you can probably field a lot of them.
Transports already exist as a dedicated ship class. They shouldn't get involved with a naval battle unless accompanies by other ship types, particularly heavies.
Thanks for all the advice! I've done my best to apply them and I'd say I'm off to a good start in my English campaign.
- Survived War of the Roses and have secured the succession with an heir.
- Annexed Scotland and Ireland, and in the process of consolidating core provinces.
- Allied and maintaining good relations with Norway, Portugal, and Aragon.
At this point, my questions would be:
- Connacht patriots keeps on inciting unrest and wants to be independent, and I have to suppress them with the military now and then. I've tried changing their culture to English & granting them less autonomy, but they're still regarded as a source of unrest. Is there an option to prevent them from inciting unrest completely? Same question applies to the Scots as well.
- I'm trying to colonize the New World (specifically the lands near the Azores and Greenland) but I'm unable to because of the distance from my ports (the nearest is Munster in Ireland). Norway has control of Iceland while Portugal has parts of the Azores, and they have granted me fleet basing rights. However, I'm still unable to colonize Greenland or parts of the Caribbean. I've already researched the Exploration idea that grants me to increased expansion. What should I do?
- Survived War of the Roses and have secured the succession with an heir.
- Annexed Scotland and Ireland, and in the process of consolidating core provinces.
- Allied and maintaining good relations with Norway, Portugal, and Aragon.
At this point, my questions would be:
- Connacht patriots keeps on inciting unrest and wants to be independent, and I have to suppress them with the military now and then. I've tried changing their culture to English & granting them less autonomy, but they're still regarded as a source of unrest. Is there an option to prevent them from inciting unrest completely? Same question applies to the Scots as well.
- I'm trying to colonize the New World (specifically the lands near the Azores and Greenland) but I'm unable to because of the distance from my ports (the nearest is Munster in Ireland). Norway has control of Iceland while Portugal has parts of the Azores, and they have granted me fleet basing rights. However, I'm still unable to colonize Greenland or parts of the Caribbean. I've already researched the Exploration idea that grants me to increased expansion. What should I do?
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
- You shouldn't have rebel problems in Britain once nationalism goes away; and probably long before then. Did you mean you granted them more autonomy? Because decreasing autonomy would increase revolt risk by 10.
- Either wait until the appropriate tech (colonial range increases by 115 at diplomatic tech 7, 50 at tech 9, and 100 at tech 10 and 11) or take Iceland from Norway. And even if you do the latter, you'll still probably have to wait until tech 7 or more.
- Either wait until the appropriate tech (colonial range increases by 115 at diplomatic tech 7, 50 at tech 9, and 100 at tech 10 and 11) or take Iceland from Norway. And even if you do the latter, you'll still probably have to wait until tech 7 or more.
jaundicejuice
Member
Should I wait for HOI4 (which looks pretty damned awesome), hoping that it has EUIV's ease of use or is HOI3 worth getting. I only ask because the complete collection is 17$CND right now as a weekly Steam sale...
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/37223/?snr=1_7_7_weeklongdeals_150_1
I like the idea of Paradox's grand strategy games I've just found them a little too obtuse to get into, although I found EUIV easier to learn than EUIII or CKII.
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/37223/?snr=1_7_7_weeklongdeals_150_1
I like the idea of Paradox's grand strategy games I've just found them a little too obtuse to get into, although I found EUIV easier to learn than EUIII or CKII.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think Victoria 2 is probably the most difficult to absolutely master, but to a large extent if you're not optimising you can leave most large Victoria nations to their own economic devices, focus on the military, and still do well. HoI3 is the opposite. Takes ages to learn even the basics, but once you know what you're doing it's a pretty easy game.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Posting on the official forums for HoI4 has made me appreciate how truly ridiculous the sanitised WWII of the HoI series is. No discussions of Prisoners of War, genocide or any other atrocities. Someone got banned for talking about reducing soviet manpower to 100k because that was too close to genocide. As long as you use abstract "manpower numbers" instead of real people it's perfectly ok though, lolz. Want to talk about alternate strategies for Barbarossa? Well you better not mention that the logistics required pillaging food from the locals!
TiredGamer
Member
Paradox games have always been about the strategic warfare, not the history.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Don't they have to do this in order for the game to be able to be sold in Germany or something like that?
Basileus777
Member
"Always?" Even when the games were full of deterministic scripted historical events?
KarneeKarnay
Member
First time poster. Please be gentle.
I am a long time member of the Paradox Collective. I started playing with HOI2 and then EU3. I love the game series and I had a lot of fun with HOI3 when I first came out. Since then, I've sort of come off HOI.
I mean I like the game, but I constantly feel like I'm screwing up. Playing UK I never seem to figure out what to build and I always fail to use my navy/air force effectively.
Does anyone know any good UK guides or LP's?
My favorite game is Victoria 2. I feel like my actions are much more impact on the world, and make much more sense in the scope of reality. I feel historical events happen, but do not guide me to any conclusions. Post-1860, Europe will look very different from 1914 Europe and I love that. Any other Vic 2 lovers out there?
I am a long time member of the Paradox Collective. I started playing with HOI2 and then EU3. I love the game series and I had a lot of fun with HOI3 when I first came out. Since then, I've sort of come off HOI.
I mean I like the game, but I constantly feel like I'm screwing up. Playing UK I never seem to figure out what to build and I always fail to use my navy/air force effectively.
Does anyone know any good UK guides or LP's?
My favorite game is Victoria 2. I feel like my actions are much more impact on the world, and make much more sense in the scope of reality. I feel historical events happen, but do not guide me to any conclusions. Post-1860, Europe will look very different from 1914 Europe and I love that. Any other Vic 2 lovers out there?
Basileus777
Member
Victoria 2 is my favorite Paradox game as well. It handles domestic affairs and economics far more interestingly than their other titles, and it's in a really fascinating time period.
I'm with you on HOI, I played the first two games a lot and then lost my way with it after HOI3 expansions started coming out. Now it just feels complicated and micromanagement heavy even compared to even other Paradox titles.
USK doesn't give a fuck whatever you have in your game as long as there are no Swastikas/Volksverhetzung.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Amen to this. I was like 'I'll just try this for half an hour, see how it goes...' then 10 hours later my Saturday was gone but I was the proud owner of 2 Valyrian Steel Swords and King on the Iron Throne.
Must be just a general PR thing. I imagine it would be pretty awkward for Paradox if players started competing to see how many Remove the Undesirables ended up killing.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Other than no Nazi flags, they replace Hitler with a fictional leader, iirc.
Was that done recently? I could of sworn they had Hitler as the leader of Germany in one of the dev videos.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
German version only, iirc. Every version gets the Iron Cross flag though.
Oh I see. I wonder how long it takes for someone to mod that stuff in? Probably not long is my guess.
Nothing awkward about including Stalin's purges or the Rape of Nanking on the other hand.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Or strategic bombing, atomic bombings etc.
TiredGamer
Member
Didn't one of the released pictures show an atomic bombing?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
HoI 4 delayed to an unknown release window. Johan today implied that the March alpha submission was rejected. He also outright stated that it would take no less than 6 months to go from Alpha to release.
So assuming it went into alpha today, which it wouldn't, it would be a November release.
For fucks sake Sweden!
So assuming it went into alpha today, which it wouldn't, it would be a November release.
For fucks sake Sweden!
Over six months to create the OT, I like those odds.
Hmm, the game was announced last January, and they're still not at the alpha stage? That's a little worrying. I mean, I'll take a delay over releasing a buggy game that doesn't sell, but still. Suppose we can now say it'll be out by Christmas!
Hmm, the game was announced last January, and they're still not at the alpha stage? That's a little worrying. I mean, I'll take a delay over releasing a buggy game that doesn't sell, but still. Suppose we can now say it'll be out by Christmas!
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
There must be some serious troubling gameplay or project management issues to cause this much delay. It was originally slated for Q1 2015, then pushed back to Q2, then it was announced that it was entering Alpha in Q2 rather than launching, and now it's delayed to "???". Paradox doesn't like launching in Q4, so the smart money is now on Q1 2016.
WHICH IS TERRIBLE.
WHICH IS TERRIBLE.
Definitely 2016 then, must be some really troubled game.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Has anyone ever succeeded with France in HOI3? I've been preoccupied with this start myself for quite a few weeks now. After one false start (I got to late 1942, US still wasn't in the war, and I certainly wasn't going to out-produce Germany, as they were starting to hammer away at my lines) I realized that there were a lot of things I could do better. So I restarted, focused on fewer technologies, produced a lot of HARMs, and eschewed an air force completely. Another thing I did differently was to attack Italy early on in the war. As you can see from the screenshot below, I fought my way to Milan and Genoa and then mounted an amphibious assault on Italy's remaining cities to force them into a capitulation.
Now Italy has joined the Allies and Britain began an invasion through the Netherlands. We made it as far as Bremen before I stopped the offensive due to manpower issues. Germany keeps making these suicide attacks against me, sometimes resulting in disproportionate 10:1 casualties in my favor, but my manpower will probably run out before theirs does. Germany looks pretty doomed though, because British and Italian troops are invading through the Alps and not meeting much resistance.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Yes people on forums say it's so easy but I think they're insane. Germany gets these insane bonuses for several months and the air force constantly drains your shit manpower income. If you're cheesy and kill Italy/Spain in the prewar period its not so bad.
I have won before without doing that but it took several save/loads and was custom game mode. France is designed to fail which is irritating.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Speaking of "designed to fail..." does anyone know any good mods to make playing as a Jewish ruler in CKII more... I dunno, fun? Involved? It's not that I'm looking for an easier experience (it should be difficult, that's just historical), but it seems like Jews don't have a tenth of the options available to them that most Christian rulers do, even with the odds of success stacked against them. Like, you're basically entirely locked out of the marriage game because of that "must not marry an infidel" thing. Can't even throw a summer fair, for crying out loud. And Passover just does not compare in terms of variety of outcomes.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Anti-aircraft brigades didn't seem to provide a very good counter to their air force either. Germany was still attacking provinces in which I had multiple units of AA. The Maginot Line was well fortified with almost maxed out stationary AA, but everywhere else enemy airplanes were causing havoc (particularly to my exposed naval fleet - I couldn't even hide them in port). Anyway, the war is pretty much over now. The Soviets entered in 1943 and punctured through the thin German lines, capturing Berlin. Britain invaded Japan and forced a surrender in July 1944. Only Bulgaria is left among the Axis. Is it worth playing all the way to the end date? I don't think an invasion of the Soviet Union is likely due to my depleted manpower.
This is the one mod I could find that seems to focus specifically on monotheistic religions, including Judaism. If that doesn't work, maybe try the Historical Immersion Project or CK2 Plus. I've never played any of these mods though and can't attest to their quality.