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[alejob]

So what happened to the terrorists that sprayed the restaurant? Did they get away? Aren't they say they were in a car? Did they blow them selves up somewhere else?

 

[Klyka]

It's a rewriting of history not a different opinion, your view of Muhammad is completely different to what Muslim history over 1400 years has. Your view is that which was introduced during the crusades to build a battle of ideas between Christianity and Islam and you are accepting this rewritten history over the Muslim version because..... Why ?

None of us were there, so we can't be sure anyway.
We all just act on the "facts" presented to us by other people who we believe to be right.

 

[Earthstrike]

Wait holding the man whose examples are to be followed as a pedophile and a warlord is not attacking thr way of life of Muslim? Most Muslims don't accept those histrionics , why are you

It's not an attack. This is really bad reasoning. Frankly, people shouldn't define their lives by someone else anyways. I mean if I define my life through the actions of any of the previous presidents, does that means those presidents are now immune to criticism, or that I get to characterize criticisms of president as attacks on myself?

If muslims feel commentary on muhammed's history constitutes attacks on them, that is their problem.

 

[Blader]

It's so bizarre that people want all peaceful Muslims to apologize for fringe movements like ISIS. Why? Can't you just assume that peaceful Muslims don't endorse ISIS (by virtue of, you know, not actually joining ISIS and killing innocents)? Is the only thing that can keep a person's own "kill all Muslims!!" racism/xenophobia at bay a universal apology given by all Muslims of the world? Are you looking for excuse to indulge in that racism and xenophobia?

It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Boss Mog]

there is only one way of dealing with ISIS and that is to kill them all

sad but true

Yeah but even if you completely eradicated ISIS, it would change absolutely nothing in France, in fact it would probably just make things even worse.

 

[Square2015]

Maybe we should ask: why did they attack a rock concert and the other targets? This was planned not random. What is the message they intended to send?

 

[facetheslayer92]

Reagan should've bombed those fucks to the stone age after Beirut in 83. The fuckin CIA station chief in Lebanon was never heard from again

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

It's a rewriting of history not a different opinion, your view of Muhammad is completely different to what Muslim history over 1400 years has. Your view is that which was introduced during the crusades to build a battle of ideas between Christianity and Islam and you are accepting this rewritten history over the Muslim version because..... Why ?

It's not my view, I'm simply playing devils advocate over why you think holding a different opinion on a key point in a religion is AN ATTACK ON ALL WHO BELIEVE IN IT.

It's like a Christian claiming that not believing Jesus was the son of god is an attack on all things Christian and must not be tolerated, it's delusional.

 

[ecnal]

It's a rewriting of history not a different opinion, your view of Muhammad is completely different to what Muslim history over 1400 years has. Your view is that which was introduced during the crusades to build a battle of ideas between Christianity and Islam and you are accepting this rewritten history over the Muslim version because..... Why ?

to deny the treasure trove of historical data that clearly indicates muhammad had an extensive military career is like denying that the earth orbits around the sun.

also, as an fyi, there are dozens upon dozens of historical accounts of muhammad's military exploits that originate from non-western sources. to paint this as some western conspiracy to re-write islamic history isn't just a stretch, it's completely and utterly delusional.

 

[riotous]

Maybe we should ask: why did they attack a rock concert and the other targets? This was planned not random. What is the message they intended to send?

Concentrations of people is probably the reason. They wanted to kill and wound as many as possible. I don't think there is a deep message behind targeting a stadium and a crowded concert venue.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

So what happened to the terrorists that sprayed the restaurant? Did they get away? Aren't they say they were in a car? Did they blow them selves up somewhere else?

I was under the impression that the terrorists that sprayed the restaurant are the same that went into the Bataclan.

 

[KooopaKid]

Is this a trick question? Yes of-fucking-course you need to have a bit of insight in what moves these people. Are you honestly arguing against that?
Completely misunderstanding IS has already lead to major fuckups in planned intervention and military strategies against them.

This is thinking already in terms of war. But you have to ask yourself what led to this situation? What are the reasons for ISIS growing influence? What regional countries are helping them? How are they buying their weapons? If it's by selling oil, who is buying it? If it's Turkey, why aren't we stopping them? If it's because western countries are then buying from Turkey, why are our governments hypocrites?

 

[acrid]

Maybe we should ask: why did they attack a rock concert and the other targets? This was planned not random. What is the message they intended to send?

Guessing here, but a rather large group of people in a relatively tight area. It'd be like shooting fish in a barrell, minimal chance for escape or survival. Ever read Stephen King's book, Mr. Mercedes? Something very similar takes place at the end

 

[Fusebox]

Why is it that the conversation always comes down to sullying a person revered by all Muslims to get back at the few Muslims. Most Muslims don't believe the framing of the issues and events of Muhammad but you do and extremists do , why is that

You come across as revering Mohammed more than God himself, which is dangerous because Mohammed was just another fallible human.

 

[Pandaman]

It's a rewriting of history not a different opinion, your view of Muhammad is completely different to what Muslim history over 1400 years has. Your view is that which was introduced during the crusades to build a battle of ideas between Christianity and Islam and you are accepting this rewritten history over the Muslim version because..... Why ?

Have you tried the historical version instead of the muslim version? Surprisingly enough, being muslim does not in fact give you the power to dictate reality.

 

[orochi91]

I was under the impression that the terrorists that sprayed the restaurant are the same that went into the Bataclan.

Was the restaurant close by the Bataclan?

That seems weird that they'd be able to shoot up a restaurant and still manage to make their way into the Bataclan.

This incident has shone a serious light over France's security capabilities, especially since you'd think they would be better prepared following the Charlie Hebdo attack.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Maybe we should ask: why did they attack a rock concert and the other targets? This was planned not random. What is the message they intended to send?

In their statement they basically said that it's because it's a place for celebrating perversity (i.e. music).

Was the restaurant close by the Bataclan?

That seems weird that they'd be able to shoot up a restaurant and still manage to make their way into the Bataclan.

It's like 10 minutes away by foot and they had a car.

 

[orochi91]

You come across as revering Mohammed more than God himself, which is dangerous because Mohammed was just another fallible human.

As a Muslim, I never understand the way some revere Mohammed.

The dude unified Arabia and spread the message of Islam, but he was still a human prone to the trappings of any other mortal.

You'd think he was a saint or divine figure, the way some people go on about him.

 

[HK-47]

As a Muslim, I never understand the way some revere Mohammed.

The dude unified Arabia and spread the message of Islam, but he was still a human prone to the trappings of any other mortal.

You'd think he was a saint or divine figure, the way some people go on about him.

Aint no saints that get anywhere near the worship and protection from criticism that the Prophet gets.

 

[Perfect Blue]

Is this a trick question? Yes of-fucking-course you need to have a bit of insight in what moves these people. Are you honestly arguing against that?
Completely misunderstanding IS has already lead to major fuckups in planned intervention and military strategies against them.

Read the response in the New Statesman http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/03/mehdi-hasan-how-islamic-islamic-state

 

[Beefy]

People debating/arguing about religion never works.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Is it too much to ask for them to join a peace march with the rest of the population in France? No one should be asking for a written apology. Most only see Muslims in Europe doing marches when it's for utter nonsense like Sharia for the UK.

I think it's silly to demand that moderates actively stand up and take the heat for radicals.

My guess is those who view this has a travesty are doing what everyone else is doing, watching in horror and trying to go on with their lives.

It's kinda like having blacks apologies for black crime.

 

[Blader]

Is it too much to ask for them to join a peace march with the rest of the population in France? No one should be asking for a written apology. Most only see Muslims in Europe doing marches when it's for utter nonsense like Sharia for the UK.

Is someone pro-ISIS/anti-peace by virtue of not joining a peace march?

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Reagan should've bombed those fucks to the stone age after Beirut in 83. The fuckin CIA station chief in Lebanon was never heard from again

lol wut

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Is it too much to ask for them to join a peace march with the rest of the population in France? No one should be asking for a written apology. Most only see Muslims in Europe doing marches when it's for utter nonsense like Sharia for the UK.

It would just be ignored just like every over time the muslim community has spoken out against extremism in the light of a terrorist attack.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Have you tried the historical version instead of the muslim version? Surprisingly enough, being muslim does not in fact give you the power to dictate reality.

I think we can see that the history of Islam was built on arabian history which has been passed down from generations among the early tribes in Arabia during Islam, going by that. Muslims I think have a pretty well established idea of what the actual history is as opposed to Orientalist historians

 

[Hoo-doo]

This is thinking already in terms of war. But you have to ask yourself what led to this situation? What are the reasons for ISIS growing influence? What regional countries are helping them? How are they buying their weapons? If it's by selling oil, who is buying it? If it's Turkey, why aren't we stopping them? If it's because western countries are then buying from Turkey, why are our governments hypocrites?

This is all secondary to knowing WHY they are moving the way they do. This is not a question that should be asked later when we might be knee-deep in a misguided war in Syria, it should have been asked years ago.
In fact, actively studying IS and it's beliefs and associates would nearly answer half those questions already.

I really cant understand what you are arguing for. You don't want to know what you're eradicating? You don't want to be able to anticipate their next move or target? Their desires? You don't want to know how and why they are recruiting fighters from all over the globe? I think it's potentially super useful.

Read the response in the New Statesman http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/03/mehdi-hasan-how-islamic-islamic-state

Thanks.

 

[Jonm1010]

There were a lot of attacks by various Christian Identity sects in the 80's and 90's. Mainstream Christians aren't expected to apologize for it because the average American immediately separates groups like that off as wackos unrelated to any mainstream Christianity.

Mainstream Muslims openly condemn ISIS constantly. Why? Because attacking first worlders is a sideshow for ISIS. Their primary purpose is the extermination of Muslims. By the thousands.

The only real explanation is ignorance. That people are so quick to set aside all Muslims as "other" and refuse to see what is actually happening. That somehow, a billion plus people have to apologize for a group that mainly terrorizes Muslims when they go ahead and terrorize other people on the side.

Ignorance and prejudice.

 

[Pacbois]

Just got back from work, it was a hard day, everyone acted like usual but I really struggled. I work in a mall, lots of shops were closed, mine wasn't but despite a lot of people in my shop, everything was calm, we actually closed half an hour early.
While I haven't lost anyone I know, my sister lost a friend, few friends are also in grief or worried sick. They attacked what I love to do most in Paris. Hanging out with friends in bars and going to shows. I feel like I am a target. I don't want to be afraid but I feel like I am. The show at the Bataclan last night was a show I, my family and my friends could have been to, and this is a terrible thing to think about.
I was fairly close to the attacks last night, with friends, celebrating the anniversary of one of my favourite bars. We all calmly took approriate safety measure (closing the blinds, opening the bar's backyard for people to feel totally safe) and tried to stay in good spirits. Seeing as the situation was still unsure in the area and many metro stations were still closed, a friend hosted us in his nearby office, we even brought up a couple of russian tourists who went to take shelter in our bar. We tried to forget about it by watching dumb shows and reading fun stuff but we were still all regularly checking the news and getting updates from friends.
I know that life will go on, and it already has been for assholes everywhere playing fearmongers, I'm arab and despite being raised far from religion and other traditions, I hate to see the rise of Islamophobia, attacks against arabs and migrants. The next few months and even years will be hard.
I'm so fucking tired but I'm afraid to go to sleep. I hope I'll finally be able to breathe and unwind tonight and tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

 

[akira28]

And a rewritten history which you accept over which most Muslims accept. That's like Russians bawking at a founding father and accepting a rewritten history and you countering it

You should try reading Russian news, or the stuff they send to America as news. sometimes it's like reading a mirror image of our views over here. you have to get beyond the principles and get to the persons. They build their beliefs based on available facts, and you're not going to get anywhere close to communication by dithering over that reality. Unless you're going to speak to the body of knowledge in the west, and the politics around it that see the originator of Islam as a desert chieftain with cultural customs that would be seen as socially unacceptable today. Really it has nothing to do with what happened in France, and it has everything to do with it. And at some point humanity will have to deal with those problems of its nature, maybe by addressing that gulf between understanding and rejection.

 

[JPLMD]

I'm not afraid myself, but she is. She's almost begging me to not go. I would go for one day but 3 days are too much to handle for her. Pregnant women need support you know. But yeah, that sucks a lot that I have to cancel this.

I think you made the right choice. Supporting her is so important right now especially with all that she must be going through. Sorry that you have to deal with so much. I wish you and your wife the best.

 

[gutter_trash]

I think it's silly to demand that moderates actively stand up and take the heat for radicals.

My guess is those who view this has a travesty are doing what everyone else is doing, watching in horror and trying to go on with their lives.

I agree with you on this. People's priorities should be about the well being of their families and themselves.

If one decides to live a peaceful life and support their family and never get involved in politics or movements, then that is that person's prerogative.

Family comes first,even before causes.

 

[SwolBro]

the amount of people around here, the net, and that i know suggesting that violence doesn't solve anything.....

i love when people talk from a distance. sometimes the only thing that works to defeat violence is, actually, more violence. sometimes you face an adversary that won't bend to civil, open dialogue. Especially one that is working through interpretation from the divine.

 

[The Artisan]

It's so bizarre that people want all peaceful Muslims to apologize for fringe movements like ISIS. Why? Can't you just assume that peaceful Muslims don't endorse ISIS (by virtue of, you know, not actually joining ISIS and killing innocents)? Is the only thing that can keep a person's own "kill all Muslims!!" racism/xenophobia at bay a universal apology given by all Muslims of the world? Are you looking for excuse to indulge in that racism and xenophobia?

It doesn't make any sense to me.

and when Muslims do go on record to denounce terrorists killing in the name of religion, they're attacked by people like Steven crowder saying things like, now's not the time to feel sorry for yourselves, the French are the victims, not you.

 

[hohoXD123]

Is it too much to ask for them to join a peace march with the rest of the population in France? No one should be asking for a written apology. Most only see Muslims in Europe doing marches when it's for utter nonsense like Sharia for the UK.

What makes you think they're not? Most of them don't exactly wear niqabs, they're part of the local population. I also take it that you haven't seen this GIF:

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Just got back from work, it was a hard day, everyone acted like usual but I really struggled. I work in a mall, lots of shops were closed, mine wasn't but despite a lot of people in my shop, everything was calm, we actually closed half an hour early.
While I haven't lost anyone I know, my sister lost a friend, few friends are also in grief or worried sick. They attacked what I love to do most in Paris. Hanging out with friends in bars and going to shows. I feel like I am a target. I don't want to be afraid but I feel like I am. The show at the Bataclan last night was a show I, my family and my friends could have been to, and this is a terrible thing to think about.
I was fairly close to the attacks last night, with friends, celebrating the anniversary of one of my favourite bars. We all calmly took approriate safety measure (closing the blinds, opening the bar's backyard for people to feel totally safe) and tried to stay in good spirits. Seeing as the situation was still unsure in the area and many metro stations were still closed, a friend hosted us in his nearby office, we even brought up a couple of russian tourists who went to take shelter in our bar. We tried to forget about it by watching dumb shows and reading fun stuff but we were still all regularly checking the news and getting updates from friends.
I know that life will go on, and it already has been for assholes everywhere playing fearmongers, I'm arab and despite being raised far from religion and other traditions, I hate to see the rise of Islamophobia, attacks against arabs and migrants. The next few months and even years will be hard.
I'm so fucking tired but I'm afraid to go to sleep. I hope I'll finally be able to breathe and unwind tonight and tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are calm on the outside but shaken underneath. Maybe speak to them about it if you haven't already, see who might need support.

Otherwise, glad you got through the night and day.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. A lot of muslims now in France don't even think of themselves as french, specially the newer generations. My mom teaches in a heavily muslim school and I regularly hear about 10 year old kids, born in the same damn hospital room as I was and who have never gone out of the country, claiming they're "not french" and things like that. It goes with the growing radicalisation of muslims here, specially in the "banlieues".
I'm not trying to generalize, I know it's not the case for a lot (maybe most) of people, but I really don't think it's as simple as just saying "white people don't consider them french". There is crap from both sides imo.

I'm sure that's true. So what?

When you act this way demanding to see that they respond differently and take some responsibility for their fellow Muslims actions you just further reinforce the idea that they're not French all the while needling away at normal everyday French Muslims French Identity. If someone's already lost you're not going to win them back by treating them as an outsider but I guarantee you that you will drive away people that were on your side by treating them as outsiders.

One of the realities of life is nothing's ever going to be perfect, I can't tell you how to get 100% of Muslims in France to identify as French first because I don't think there is a way. I'm also willing to bet there's quite a few white French people who leave the country and never look back or don't feel that the country's for them either? What to do about them? I think we all need to stop chasing the ones already lost and bring the ones not lost closer to us, I think that's the only way to truly build as respectful and inclusive a society as we can.

 

[akira28]

the amount of people around here, the net, and that i know suggesting that violence doesn't solve anything.....

i love when people talk from a distance. sometimes the only thing that works to defeat violence is, actually, more violence. sometimes you face an adversary that won't bend to civil, open dialogue. Especially one that is working through interpretation from the divine.

I have yet to see any civil open dialogies.

 

[GobFather]

Why does it always leads to criticism of religion in these type of threads. Your view of religion shouldn't matter to this topic, it should only be on the extremist, the victims and the event itself. These are extremists that are performing these acts yet the million of regular Muslims will have to deal with these type of hostile views in person and online... Similar to what I'm reading the last two pages.

 

[Wvrs]

Slightly off-topic but does anyone know of a good book to read on the modern history of the middle east? I know of basics such as the decline of the Ottoman Empire etc, but would like to better understand the historical events that led to the situation we are seeing today.

 

[DarkTom]

I think you made the right choice. Supporting her is so important right now especially with all that she must be going through. Sorry that you have to deal with so much. I wish you and your wife the best.

Thanks man.

 

[Guy.brush]

Just the fact that these ancient texts are totally up for interpretation and debate paints such a weak picture of the gods they are referring to (including the bible too)
Why would the creator of the universe let his sheep (that he created in his image) murder and kill each other over holy text interpretations? Couldn't he just spawn a perfect text right here and now?
All these religions then make up something about "God is currently absent BUT will return when we all do what our religion says" it is so friggin obvious how this is all pretty much mumbojumbo. Sad that so many people in this world use it to ease their fear of death and the enormity of the universe around them and live in a reality distorting bubble.

 

[Rad Agast]

Maybe we should ask: why did they attack a rock concert and the other targets? This was planned not random. What is the message they intended to send?

They usually chose targets which are heavily populated to cause the maximum amount of casualties. It doesn't matter what the activity is in the location.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

the amount of people around here, the net, and that i know suggesting that violence doesn't solve anything.....

i love when people talk from a distance. sometimes the only thing that works to defeat violence is, actually, more violence. sometimes you face an adversary that won't bend to civil, open dialogue. Especially one that is working through interpretation from the divine.

But violence is countered with more violence since 9/11, Al Qaeda was never defeated, US lost over 4000 soldiers, Iraq is a mess today, Syria is basically hell on earth.

 

[Always-honest]

the amount of people around here, the net, and that i know suggesting that violence doesn't solve anything.....

i love when people talk from a distance. sometimes the only thing that works to defeat violence is, actually, more violence. sometimes you face an adversary that won't bend to civil, open dialogue. Especially one that is working through interpretation from the divine.

Oh you can wipe the ISIS from the face of the earth, sure. But what a lot of people don't realise is how much a big part of the world Hates western countries. And with bombing the symbol of that hate, you'll create more hate. That is what we've seen. An increase of violence and attacks.

But yeah, I wouldn't know what else to do either. They need to go. Fuck 'm.

 

[Gorthaur]

Trains are skipping the Eiffel tower metro station. I still don't know why as I'm in the metro myself.

I will post again if I find why.

 

[Maninthemirror]

lets begin, as people attacking the faith and its founder are already here in the aftermath of this tragedy, lets address it

You come across as revering Mohammed more than God himself, which is dangerous because Mohammed was just another fallible human.

I think I am someone who doesn't want people misled over orientalist history rewritten as facts of history especially when they completely taking a different spectrum of history than those presented by Muslims themselves especially considering that adherent muslims would want to portray as God wanted these adherent muslims who want to convey the truth to portray Muhammad which is as he was, not as they want him to be

to deny the treasure trove of historical data that clearly indicates muhammad had an extensive military career is like denying that the earth orbits around the sun.

also, as an fyi, there are dozens upon dozens of historical accounts of muhammad's military exploits that originate from non-western sources. to paint this as some western conspiracy to re-write islamic history isn't just a stretch, it's completely and utterly delusional.

I think you are thinking that because he was the leader in military he was a military leader and thus a warlord and forgetting the simple fact that he was considered a leader to all muslims which means he was to lead them in battles against Quraysh, he was to lead them in social decisions, he was to lead them in lawful decision, he was to lead them in religious decisions and in every aspect. So to just say he was a warlord is simply exaggerating something to project the idea that he was primarily a warlord. If Quraysh and other tribes attacked the muslims relentlessly and Muslims had to defend themselves every single time this automatically means that muslims would be in battles a lot of times as well. This does not mean they were warlords, this means they fought to live not fought to take lives. There is a major difference

It's not my view, I'm simply playing devils advocate over why you think holding a different opinion on a key point in a religion is AN ATTACK ON ALL WHO BELIEVE IN IT.

It's like a Christian claiming that not believing Jesus was the son of god is an attack on all things Christian and must not be tolerated, it's delusional.

Oh Devils advocate oh I see. I think the currect analogy would be that considering Mary Magdeline was a prostitute that saying Jesus was a pimp, that would be offensive. If you had told me that not believing Muhammad was the greatest prophet, wouldn't be attacking him, it is your difference of view based on ideology but when you sully someone sacred like Jesus and Muhammad for histrionics purposes, that is offensive to all Muslims.

It's not an attack. This is really bad reasoning. Frankly, people shouldn't define their lives by someone else anyways. I mean if I define my life through the actions of any of the previous presidents, does that means those presidents are now immune to criticism, or that I get to characterize criticisms of president as attacks on myself?

If muslims feel commentary on muhammed's history constitutes attacks on them, that is their problem.

As Muslims we are requested to follow the examples of the Prophet Muhammad as the best way to find God which is worshipping, praying, good character etc etc. Its basically like saying Muhammad was the best of Men and he is the best examples that Muslims have of what it takes to be a Muslim.

Odd that your previous post condemned another poster, whose post caused you to infer intent to state a generality about those who hold a type of belief, but now you describe how all Muslims are supposed to live and how most of the west views a topic. Aren't those also generalizations? I'm confused on when these types of statements are bad and when they are okay? It's okay for you to make a general statement about how all Muslims are supposed to live, but it's not okay for another poster to be critical of how a single person lived 1500 years ago?

The Quran says how muslims are supposed to live and I was mentioning how few in the west view this topic, and how many will back up the bad history, and there will be a few not many of those. All Muslims believe that following in the footsteps of Muhammad is the accepted way of life, Shia, Sunni, Wahhabi, Barelvi, Deoband, etc etc, I think almost all 70+ sects have one thing in common to follow and that is the founder of Islam.







the simple gist of it is that Muslims view Muhammad not as a warlord but as a defending leader against all the attacks that Muslims had to endure, they view him as the biggest Prophet and direct link between man and God, they viewed his examples of how to do things as the best way forward. this is where the sacred element comes in, When you accept the rewritten history of Muhammad as a pedophile or warlord you accept a view which is contrary to that which Muslims hold. when Muslims say he was not a pedophile or warlord and you insist, you want Muslims to accept your view as legitimate as a counter to their view of a sacred man. So these statements that well Muhammad was a warlord and thus Islam has an issue and their leader is a lousy example is just accepting false history and offends the way of life of Muslims who view him in a sacred light.

the only thing that rings true that he would be the first to denounce such attacks if there was a way for him to make a statement. The acceptance of faith for Muslims is the Kalima which says 'There is one God and Muhammad is his messenger' that itself denotes the sacred status of the founder to Muslims. so please read history and understand that Wiki is not your best source to make judgements of character

 

[The perfect Dark]

Slightly off-topic but does anyone know of a good book to read on the modern history of the middle east? I know of basics such as the decline of the Ottoman Empire etc, but would like to better understand the historical events that led to the situation we are seeing today.

Try books from Peter Scholl-Latour. I don't know the english translations though.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Why does it always leads to criticism of religion in these type of threads. Your view of religion shouldn't matter to this topic, it should only be on the extremist, the victims and the event itself. These are extremists that are performing these acts yet the million of regular Muslims will have to deal with these type of hostile views in person and online... Similar to what I'm reading the last two pages.

People need a group to blame/start creating grand theories on what the problem is and how to fix it.

At the end of the day a handful of psychopaths will represent 1.5 billion people for many people.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

lets begin, as people attacking the faith and its founder are already here in the aftermath of this tragedy, lets address it

Or maybe let's take that debate to another thread as it's getting off-topic...