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[Dishwalla]

the merch manager for the band eagles of death metal, who were playing at the concert hall last night, was one of the casualties

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/nic...rorist-attack/

saw something posted about it on the facebook page for the band forever the sickest kids, who also knew him.

 

[SwolBro]

Source?

there's polls out there. someone else just sourced one to you.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

I'd like to think I knew a few things or two about ISIS, but there are more knowledgeable people on this forum. Could you watch this video and share your thoughts? I have no idea what status Ben Swann has in the US btw and this video is from March 19th.

https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/882104321854519/

His sources do check out. The Free Syrian Army did surrender their weapons and joined ISIS. But after that I can't follow if the US did back any more rebels. In a previous hearing A general was defending a $500M expending and basically said "4 or 5 Syrian rebels have been trained" Which seems completely absurd. So something else is happening there.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/16/us-military-syrian-isis-fighters

 

[Sdkkds]

Outside of donations what do you expect people around the world to do?

Join the military?
Fly to France to... Do what?
Set up protests?
Launch an internet hashtag campaign?

What do these people need to do other than show their support? What would qualify as doing something? How much money?

Dude, sometimes it's just not feasible for everyone to hop on a plane, donate blood, join the military, do whatever.

Yes, many feel all warm and fuzzy inside from posting a picture and think they did well - but I'm quite sure a majority can't do much because its simply unreasonable for 7 billion people to do more than simply voice their concern and show support online.

My point is not that everyone should or has the ability to do something, my point is that I worry that some of the people who might have donated or done something will now not do it. My issue is not with the person who changes his picture to show support, it's with the campaign itself. And giving 1 dollar to a charity is doing something.

What I would have liked is that facebook charged you one dollar (or more if you wanted to) to change your picture, and that one dollar would go to your charity of choice. Then almost everyone could afford it and you would do something, and get to show everyone that you did something. And they could even adjust it based on a countries average income level so you could contribute based on your means.

 

[AstroNut325]

Is there a comprehensive report or article that details what led up to this?

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Not here to debate, but this is terrifying and makes me sad that certain people are so insane. Hope Paris recovers easily.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I think when people say stuff like that they're almost always referring to the Pew poll studies.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

For example, punishing apostates isn't some crazy, fringe idea among muslims.

Well most of the larger numbers are from poor countries where the education level is very low... In the West, most moderates actually are moderates.

there's polls out there. someone else just sourced one to you.

Nah bro, you won't find one such poll for French muslims or Western muslims.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Is there a comprehensive report or article that details what led up to this?

There is never going to be a complete article that would explain the entire situation. Your best hope is to start from the bottom and work your where from there depending on how real your desire to understand the Middle East crisis is.

 

[Clockwork5]

Well most of the larger numbers are from poor countries where the education level is very low... In the West, most moderates actually are moderates.



Nah bro, you won't find one such poll for French muslims or Western muslims.

Source?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Evil?

No. ISIS = causing oil markets to plummet. Russia = lives off oil market.

There is no good or evil when it comes to Russia. Only profits.

Isis has nothing to do with falling oil prices, that's the Saudi's pumping out so much so they can drive the shale oil producers in the US out of the market. Normally this much instability in he Middle East would have sent oil prices through the roof.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Source?

For what? The fact that there are no polls saying that the majority of French Muslims are extremists?

 

[Henkka]

Well most of the larger numbers are from poor countries where the education level is very low... In the West, most moderates actually are moderates.



Nah bro, you won't find one such poll for French muslims or Western muslims.

Well, yeah... I don't know if they've done a poll of muslims in western countries. But nevertheless, the results of that poll are pretty depressing.

74% of all muslims in Egypt favour making Sharia the law of the land. Of those 74%, 86% support the death penalty for apostasy. This is a huge problem for anyone wanting to reform Islam. It's really hard to argue that "true Islam", whatever that means, is actually this utterly benign, non-violent religion when you have muslim majorities in major countries supporting extremely harsh punishments.

 

[Diablos]

Pope calls Paris terrorist attacks part of 'piecemeal WWIII'

Ugh. We live in scary and uncertain times but this is premature, Pope. Way too premature. Please stop saying this.

 

[alejob]

It's been universally reported now that there were 8, 7 of whom died by suicide bombing and 1 who was clearly shot to death (just desserts) before his vest went off.

Uh no. Three groups. Three bombers at the stadium and two groups of two. Info is confusing.

 

[azyless]

It's been universally reported now that there were 8, 7 of whom died by suicide bombing and 1 who was clearly shot to death (just desserts) before his vest went off.

The total number of terrorists hasn't been reported afaik so I don't know what that proves. If there were multiple gunmen in the car that was present at the restaurants then at least one of them isn't dead if going by what the prosecutor said.

Ouest France is unclear about it as well

On ne sait pas encore si les auteurs des fusillades dans les rues Bichat, rue de Charonne, avenue de la République et aux Halles, sont les mêmes que ceux responsables du bain de sang au Bataclan. Ce qui supprimerait l'hypothèse d'une fuite d'autres assaillants, mais rien n'est confirmé à ce stade de l'enquête.

 

[diaspora]

So, one of the killers was French-born and three were Belgium born...

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Ugh. We live in scary and uncertain times but this is premature, Pope. Way too premature. Please stop saying this.

He's not wrong. Much of the world is against a common threat.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I like the way that study was done. It basically worked from the top and went down.

Are you for Sharia being law or not?

If Yes should it apply to everyone or Muslims.

If Yes to that as well Then are you also in favor of all this other shit, like death for leaving the faith and the like.

Which to no surprise was also a mostly yes as at that point they'd pretty much drilled down into the hardcore. It looks a little more alarming than it really is I thought. Especially when you look at the regions at the start regarding if they were in favor of enshrining Sharia law or not. In countries that were not already under some form of Sharia law the answer was pretty much a no telling me that a lot of the yeses from that point is because, well, that's just how it is where they live.

Lastly they're polls, I don't even want to know how many Americans want the 10 Commandments enshrined as law, even though I'd be more comfortable with that then Sharia personally. Kinda unfair though since Sharia's way more encompassing than the 10 Commandments. But anyways, my point here is that people want lots of stuff, what's important is are they going to fight for it? Considering over half of those who responded favoring Sharia law only want it applied to Muslims I'm not really worried about living under Sharia myself.

 

[Oersted]

Just got a call from a friend. She was on the way to the concert, but she missed a train.

 

[Perfect Blue]

Thanks.

No problem. Let me know your thoughts on it compared to the first article when you can.

 

[Diablos]

He's not wrong. Much of the world is against a common threat.

I just get uneasy about a highly respected religious figure making such a lofty claim when we have seen what has just unfolded. Isis wants to respond to that in some way, you know they do.

 

[szaromir]

Lastly they're polls, I don't even want to know how many Americans want the 10 Commandments enshrined as law, even though I'd be more comfortable with that then Sharia personally. Kinda unfair though since Sharia's way more encompassing than the 10 Commandments. But anyways, my point here is that people want lots of stuff, what's important is are they going to fight for it? Considering over half of those who responded favoring Sharia law only want it applied to Muslims I'm not really worried about living under Sharia myself.

Are you for real? Law is law, it should be the same for everyone, not secular law for non-muslims and sharia law for the muslim citizens.

 

[moggio]

He's not wrong. Much of the world is against a common threat.

Catholicism?

 

[Queen of Hunting]

I just get uneasy about a highly respected religious figure making such a lofty claim when we have seen what has just unfolded. Isis wants to respond to that in some way, you know they do.

Its a no win situation. They will carry on without a response. They will carry on with one too.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Uh no. Three groups. Three bombers at the stadium and two groups of two. Info is confusing.

According to Le Monde (on mobile, can't really quote), there are supposed to have been three groups: one at the stadium, one at Bataclan and one that drove around.
The one driving around may be ubaccounted for and on the loose.

Official records also put the number of dead terrorists at 7, not 8.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Uhh you're sure about that ? I don't think the prosecutor gave any details about what happened to the gunmen who were in the car that was at the restaurants and bars. He said that the vehicle had been identified but that's it.
They've arrested several people in Belgium today though in relation with both cars at the scenes, I don't think we have any more details than that.


I don't expect muslims to make any kind of annoucement whatsoever and I don't hold them responsible for any of it, I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like I am ?


Are you talking about me specifically ? Because I don't share those views jsyk and I don't want "everyday good muslim" to be treated badly in any way. All I'm saying is it's not as simple as you're trying to make it sound.


Again I don't expect muslims to "own up" to anything, you're either confusing me with someone else or misunderstanding me completely.
That's all I'll say about it because I don't want to derail the thread any further and we're obviously disagreeing or not understanding each other.

Well when you initiated the conversation with me using my reply to another poster as the start I figured you were with him. We can leave it at that then.

Are you for real? Law is law, it should be the same for everyone, not secular law for non-muslims and sharia law for the muslim citizens.

Oh I totally agree with you but I think it shows that they're actually more flexible than given credit for which actually bodes well for us. It'd be even better if they didn't like Sharia but asking that of them is like asking a Christian to denounce the 10 commandments.

 

[orochi91]

Ugh. We live in scary and uncertain times but this is premature, Pope. Way too premature. Please stop saying this.

Pope needs to chill the fuck out an refrain from that kind of dramatic dialogue.

So, one of the killers was French-born and three were Belgium born...

That should take most of the heat off the refugees.

 

[Switch Back 9]

Just got a call from a friend. She was on the way to the concert, but she missed a train.

Wow. I can't imagine how she's feeling today.

 

[Diablos]

That should take most of the heat off the refugees.

Sensationalist media will make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

I just get uneasy about a highly respected religious figure making such a lofty claim when we have seen what has just unfolded. Isis wants to respond to that in some way, you know they do.

It wasn't as bad as English media tell you. This is the original quote.

http://www.tv2000.it/blog/2015/11/1...0-trasmessa-nelledizione-speciale-del-tg2000/

My Italian isn't as good to translate accurately (mostly because english is not even my native language) but I think he basically said that it is a piece (as in a small part of something bigger) and that there is no justification (religious or human) for this kind of actions.

 

[Switch Back 9]

So, one of the killers was French-born and three were Belgium born...

Would you kindly link me to a source please? There's a few people on my social media that should really see this.

 

[cybamerc]

Nah bro, you won't find one such poll for French muslims or Western muslims.

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/pu...h-muslims-and-the-paradox-of-multiculturalism
https://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u6/koopmans_englisch_ed.pdf
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4253271.ece
http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

While you are right that there are relatively fewer extremists in Europe the number of muslims that support Sharia law and terrorist groups like ISIS is far from insignificant.

 

[GobFather]

Just got a call from a friend. She was on the way to the concert, but she missed a train.

Those moments/decisions are crazy to reflect on. I'm glad she's ok!

 

[azyless]

So, one of the killers was French-born and three were Belgium born...

That hasn't been confirmed anywhere. They've arrested several people in Belgium but there aren't any more details.
The only one who has been identified so far is the french one in the Bataclan. And maybe the one with a syrian passport but I don't know if any valuable source has talked about it so I'll wait a bit more.

 

[Stereogatari]

Re: Muslims speaking out. A large, large number of Muslims, hell maybe even a majority, are not religious enough to be politically organised with an Islamic group or mosque group or w/e, so literally they have no way of "condemning the attacks". Many don't go to mosque at all and many who do, aren't super into the political side of religion. So what exact outlet do these people have of "SPEAKING OUT" etc.?

 

[dc89]

Sources: Father and brother of one of Paris suicide attackers placed in custody - @AFP http://bit.ly/1RVYBUw

 

[Hoo-doo]

No problem. Let me know your thoughts on it compared to the first article when you can.

I thought both were great reads. The NewStateman article does grant some interesting insight in the reception of ISIS from within the muslim community and it certainly sourced the opinions from that area better. The situation certainly isn't as cut and dry as we'd like. But then again, i'm hardly an expert on the matter, far from it. These articles are somewhat of a revelation to me in some respects.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Would you kindly link me to a source please? There's a few people on my social media that should really see this.

http://www.businessinsider.com/paris-attacks-syrian-passport-2015-11

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I must have missed this and I apologize, but do we know for sure this was ISIS's doing? Have they taken claim?

 

[Diablos]

I must have missed this and I apologize, but do we know for sure this was ISIS's doing? Have they taken claim?

Yes.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/pu...h-muslims-and-the-paradox-of-multiculturalism
https://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u6/koopmans_englisch_ed.pdf
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4253271.ece
http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

While you are right that there are relatively fewer extremists in Europe the number of muslims that support Sharia law and terrorist groups like ISIS is far from insignificant.

Last link is from an infamous poll by the biased, homophobic, pro-Putin Rossiya Segodnya with questionable methodology. Not exactly reliable.

The other links I won't discuss as it's definitely true that among Western countries Britain is the one where the number of pro-Islamists is the largest, and it's getting off-topic.

 

[MaXsPoT]

https://twitter.com/PZbooks/status/664529154344419329

this is some scary shit

 

[PantherLotus]

Yes.

Not exactly. France says it knows, US says it has no evidence otherwise. We still don't know for certain.

 

[Machina]

Brisbane, Australia

If you can take your eyes off the spectacular lightning, the bridge is Blue, White and Red for France.

 

[Diablos]

https://twitter.com/PZbooks/status/664529154344419329

this is some scary shit

Huh? How did this happen??

 

[KooopaKid]

This is all secondary to knowing WHY they are moving the way they do. This is not a question that should be asked later when we might be knee-deep in a misguided war in Syria, it should have been asked years ago.
In fact, actively studying IS and it's beliefs and associates would nearly answer half those questions already.

I really cant understand what you are arguing for. You don't want to know what you're eradicating? You don't want to be able to anticipate their next move or target? Their desires? You don't want to know how and why they are recruiting fighters from all over the globe? I think it's potentially super useful.

Attacking their source of income should be a priority. But Western countries have a schizophrenic foreign policy. Sometimes some extremists are "good", sometimes they're bad. That's convenient.
BTW, did the allies had to understand why the Nazi regime wanted to kill all the jews to fight efficiently against them? Strategy and ideology are too different things.

 

[XenogearsX]

Huh? How did this happen??

Sup with the nov 11 time stamp?

 

[pgtl_10]

Last link is from an infamous poll by the biased, homophobic, pro-Putin Rossiya Segodnya with questionable methodology. Not exactly reliable.

The other links I won't discuss as it's definitely true that among Western countries Britain is the one where the number of pro-Islamists is the largest, and it's getting off-topic.

I trust that Russian poll as much as most Western polls.

 

[Sawneeks]

Huh? How did this happen??

The date it was tweeted is Nov. 11, 2 days before the attack.

edit: whoops, you edited your post right as I replied. Unless some glitch happened on Twitter then I can't explain that tweet.

 

[DragonSworne]

Attacking their source of income should be a priority. Did the allies had to understand why the Nazi regime wanted to kill all the jews to fight efficiently against them? Strategy and ideology are too different things.

So we should attack Saudi Arabia?