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Paris Terrorist Attacks, 120+ dead. Do not post hearsay/unsourced/old news.

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If anything, everyone should avoid places like these in the future. Nobody knows if it will happen again

Capitals. Places with big amount of planned gatherings. What we see from this is that they yearn for public eyes.

They failed to infiltrate the Stadium and opted for the next best thing, not only that the explosions where heard on TV.
Wat you say doesn't make sense.
People should stop going to restaurants or going to shows ?
How does that solve anything ?
It's like you're saying terrorism will stop once people start hiding and terrorists find it difficult to find enough people for a mass shooting.

Are you also suggesting people avoid living in big cities, because there are a lot of people in them ?
 
I've always known that parts of europe are more exposed to these kinds of incidents because of their relative proximity to the middle eastern areas where these extremists operate.

I just don't understand how they could have traveled through so many borders and so much distance without being noticed.

I guess it's different when it's a flight and its international. It's probably much more difficult to fly across the ocean and be checked on the other side and get through.
 
I just don't understand how they could have traveled through so many borders and so much distance without being noticed.

The poster above you linked to an article suggesting two of those guys were French men who live in Belgium.
It's likely that the other guys (or some of them) are French too. A Syrian passport was found inside the concert venue but we don't know if it belongs to one of the attackers.

In other words it wouldn't be surprising if most of the attackers were Europeans.
 

Joni

Member

SenkiDala

Member
Me too, I think I have the same issue. It isn't that bad, but the videos do lag a bit on that website.

Dailymotion is a French company, I think the servers are based in France so it might be this reason. I live in France and Dailymotion is ok for me.
 
Capitals. Places with big amount of planned gatherings. What we see from this is that they yearn for public eyes.

They failed to infiltrate the Stadium and opted for the next best thing, not only that the explosions where heard on TV.

The didn't "opt for the next best thing" after they failed the stadium attack. They struck all 7 locations around the same time. There was 3 terrorist groups and they were all coordinated.

If anything, everyone should avoid places like these in the future.

How about no
 

Myggen

Member
Capitals. Places with big amount of planned gatherings. What we see from this is that they yearn for public eyes.

They failed to infiltrate the Stadium and opted for the next best thing, not only that the explosions where heard on TV.

That's just pure paranoia. There's so many things that are more likely to kill you than a terrorist attack, which in the West is one of the most overblown risks because of the media coverage. You're infinitely more likely to die in a car crash so I hope you're avoiding cars from now on.
 

azyless

Member
I've always known that parts of europe are more exposed to these kinds of incidents because of their relative proximity to the middle eastern areas where these extremists operate.

I just don't understand how they could have traveled through so many borders and so much distance without being noticed.

I guess it's different when it's a flight and its international. It's probably much more difficult to fly across the ocean and be checked on the other side and get through.
Because "they" are people born and raised in Europe who get manipulated into radical Islam.
Most of them travel to Syria via Turkey at some point, and they are noticed, but going to Turkey or the Middle East is not a crime so except putting them on a surveillance list (a list that is already very long), there isn't much we can do.
 
Once really regarding WW2, WW1 is a very complicated war, the events that led up to it, etc. There's a lot of bad involvement of many countries there, there is no singular blame. The way treaties were setup pulled in countries into conflicts. Because of this, when conflicts broke out between different countries, others had to be pulled in due to these treaties, so it became a huge mess of countries being pulled in and fighting others that they weren't initially. Lets not forget about the imperialism that brought tensions too. Germany didn't cause the events that led to WW1, Germany just escalated it when it was already on the brink. Austraia-Hunary declared war on Serbia.

Due to the treaty between Russia and Serbia, Russia had to help out and they were doing heavy mobilisations. This was a result of Archduke Franz Ferdinand being assassinated (and other attempts by Black Hand terrorist group) by a Serbian natationalist. Germany then declared war on Russia. Basically because of all the crazy treaties/clusterfuck, countries were beginning to be pulled in, resulting in WW1. Saying Germany caused WW1 is ignoring too many of the events and nature of the world in terms of alliances/treaties at the time, plus competition of imperialism that brought conflicts, etc. Many historians argue that the true cause was the tension of imperialism amongst all the many countries, the situation of WW1 has too many hands involved to give singular blame.

Also, WW2 was also partly as a result of how Germany was treated after WW1, the economy, the Germany people feeling ashamed of being German, giving rise to nationalism by a leader like Hitler, promising to bring the country out of the dire economy/poverty it was in which he did, and he made Germans proud. The way Germany was treated after WW1 was in the nature/treatment that Germany caused everything for WW1 which wasn't true, Germany took the biggest hit and nature of singular blame when it wasn't its entire fault, again - there is no singular blame in WW1 but Germany was treated as if it were.

Post-WW2, there was a reason why the allies did not make the same mistake of post-WW1, it's why Germany and Japan for example were helped to be rebuilt, allowed to exist better than how it was treated post-WW1. The reason Germany was "allowed to exist as it does today" is because leaders/politicians did not want to make the same mistake after WW1. Germany is one the most peaceful countries in the world today, same goes for Japan for the most part (I guess Abe and his cronies are trying to change that).
Germany and Japan were allowed to exist in order to control the spread of Communism by The Soviets. That's about it.
 

Fj0823

Member
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers
 
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers

Your Facebook wall sounds awful. Mine has not a single post like any of those.
 

Kabouter

Member
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers

This is an amazing line of reasoning.
 
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers
Delete them from Facebook or hide their comments. I see nothing like that, only posts of support and people changing their avatars.
 

Hex

Banned
And you haven't deleted these people because...?

IF there is anything positive to come out of this it is that I was able to thin out my Facebook list when people show themselves.
Very close to deleting family members who are now unfollowed.
 

Ensirius

Member
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers
Yeah make new friends.
 

NekoFever

Member
Belgian home affairs minister says Playstation 4 chat is even harder to control than WhatsApp

http://www.xpats.com/brussels-weakest-link-europes-fight-against-terrorism

*facepalm*

inb4 people discovering how many chat services actually are out there...
And the stupid thing is even if they shut down every encrypted chat/messaging service, there's nothing to stop people exchanging encrypted messages over insecure services, e.g. OTR encryption via IM platforms. Making them accessible to the authorities does absolutely nothing.
 

szaromir

Banned
Also, WW2 was also partly as a result of how Germany was treated after WW1, the economy, the Germany people feeling ashamed of being German, giving rise to nationalism by a leader like Hitler, promising to bring the country out of the dire economy/poverty it was in which he did, and he made Germans proud. The way Germany was treated after WW1 was in the nature/treatment that Germany caused everything for WW1 which wasn't true, Germany took the biggest hit and nature of singular blame when it wasn't its entire fault, again - there is no singular blame in WW1 but Germany was treated as if it were.
I was unjustly spanked by my mom when I was 6yo, so if I kill 20 people tomorrow it won't be my fault.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers

I only have people I'm friends with in real life on my Facebook friends list. Try it sometime.
 
That's just incredible. I wish I hadn't seen that out of respect for the victims, but I personally don't want to shy away from the reality.

These fuckers need to be stopped. By any means.
My thoughts as well.

My wife is going to a concert (in USA) this week and I hate that I have to worry about her safety just going to a show.
 

wachie

Member
My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers
There was some on my friend list who changed their profile pic to include France, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, etc.

Disgusting.

I wanted to defriend him.
 
Kuwait Towers were lit with the French flag today. Not the best picture but it's close enough.

CT3KOc1UYAEJMZG.jpg
 

Violet_0

Banned
What's idiotic is the justification of the genocides committed in 1940s by "but the treaty in 1918 was sooooo unfair".

lol history
it's a widely held view that the treatment of Germany after WW1 aided in the rise of the National Socialist Party, hence the allies didn't repeat the same mistakes after WW2
 

SkylineRKR

Member
What's idiotic is the justification of the genocides committed in 1940s by "but the treaty in 1918 was sooooo unfair".

Nobody justifies that I think.

But the treaty of Versailles crippled Germany to the point of desperation, in which madmen can rise to power because the people desperate as they are would follow anyone who promised better times. On top of that, Hitler was a great speaker. Very charmismatic and he had a loud voice.

The nation was on its knees, the people had nothing. I would probably vote for Hitler too if I were there, because there wasn't another solution. And in all honesty, Germany did rise to become an industrial superpower after the second world war.
 
I was unjustly spanked by my mom when I was 6yo, so if I kill 20 people tomorrow it won't be my fault.

Good job on ignoring rest what I said and your analogy doesn't work because that's not what I said. I never said the unjust treatment of Germany post-WW1 was a justification of WW2 because that's what your analogy implies. Where did you pull that out of? I didn't say that, I said one of the reasons of WW2 and the Nazi party existing is due to the economic situation in Germany of post-WW1, the forced changes, the presentation of the prime evil being Germany in WW1/post-WW1. It gave rise to Hitler/Nazi party, it gave rise to nationalism because Germany's state due to the way it was handled after WW1 meant people couldn't even afford a loaf of bread to feed families and when a party like the Nazi party and Hitler began promising changes to economy, making Germans proud again, etc, it gave rise to that. It's very well documented and studied how post-WW1 Germany shaped the culmination of WW2. Like I said, it's one of the reasons, not the single reason and nor did I say WW2 isn't Germany's fault or that it was justified just because of how Germany was unjustly treated for WW1. I never said that and that's exactly what your analogy implies I said. I said one of the reasons for the rise of nationalism/nazi party was due to how Germany was viewed/treated as the prime evil of WW1 when there were no prime evils, I never said it's a justification or not Germany's fault for WW2. I simply explained that WW1 had no prime evils and there is no singular blame as to who caused it, but victors presented that there was a prime evil of WW1 and it had direct effects on Germany and later how these decisions had some part in how Germany formed resulting in the Nazi Party and ultimately WW2. I did not say that WW2 was not Nazi Germany's fault.

Any way this is off-topic to the thread so I'd rather not discuss it here. I understand if you misunderstood my post and made that analogy.
 
I may have to refresh on my German history, but Germany did go massively into debt during WW1 with the idea being that their war victories would end up paying off the debt and I believe that this debt was the main economic burden on the country post-WW1.

The Treaty obviously did not help things though.
 

Crisco

Banned
It all comes back to abject poverty. Groups like ISIS don't happen when you have a population with a thriving economy that can afford to feed, clothes, and shelter itself. Groups like ISIS happen because they approach people who've been watching their children starve to death and they say "strap this bomb to your chest and we'll give your family $10,000". We don't need to send 100,000 troops to the Middle East, we need to send 100,000 doctors and teachers along with freighters full of food and supplies.
 

Spirited

Mine is pretty and pink

abna is a propaganda site for Iraq government so maybe don't take their word for it.

My facebook is either full or people saying France and the inocents who died deserved what happened because the French government has done baf stuff.

People suddenly remembering Syria and saying france doesn't matter in comparison

or people calling to kill all muslims and religious people arguing atheists would never kill people.

I feel sick of this world. If anything I can know unfriend a lot of these fuckers

Seen a lot of friends in my class sharing stuff like "Media never cares or even reports the stuff in the middle east and of course now that something happens in france they cover it". Do they know how news work and also how we probably relate more to a country with similar culture and are close by. Also as someone said in a reddit thread earlier "Snow in Alaska isn't news while snow in california is." I think you udnerstand what I mean by that, even if it's not really true as bombings and terrorist attcks in middle east gets news coverage here too.

Pretty disgusted by a few comments about how we shouldn't feel sorry for france because it happens everyday in the middle east, many of the people that has said such things are outspoken as humanitarian.
 
It all comes back to abject poverty. Groups like ISIS don't happen when you have a population with a thriving economy that can afford to feed, clothes, and shelter itself. Groups like ISIS happen because they approach people who've been watching their children starve to death and they say "strap this bomb to your chest and we'll give your family $10,000". We don't need to send 100,000 troops to the Middle East, we need to send 100,000 doctors and teachers along with freighters full of food and supplies.

Hundreds of people are leaving Europe to join ISIS, it's not the only factor.
 

DunpealD

Member
The didn't "opt for the next best thing" after they failed the stadium attack. They struck all 7 locations around the same time. There was 3 terrorist groups and they were all coordinated.

My bad, sorry for not being clearer.
They couldn't get into the stadium so they did it outside. Not to connect with the other locations.

Also resting my case to keep topic clean for further important information.
 
Sometimes...even if people on social media, be it Facebook or Twitter, want to bring awareness to more atrocities/massacres it can come across in a very "You're not allowed to be sad about Paris" way...

I saw someone on my friends list basically eyeroll that FB had a french flag but doesn't have a corresponding flag for other countries that suffer...and someone else mentioned that in their case it's relative ignorance, not that they don't care but they don't always know.

It's sorta the same for me and I guess the same for a lot of people. Maybe there's more of a sense of hostility when you read text because you can't always see how someone typed it in the way you can hear someone speak.

They are people I know irl...but while there's nothing wrong with drawing attention to other causes when one of them starts reposting a person raving about it being a false flag and zionist conspiracies...someone else posted that the west's lack of reaction to events is one of the reasons people hate the west...which i can sorta understand but its also...
 
It all comes back to abject poverty. Groups like ISIS don't happen when you have a population with a thriving economy that can afford to feed, clothes, and shelter itself. Groups like ISIS happen because they approach people who've been watching their children starve to death and they say "strap this bomb to your chest and we'll give your family $10,000". We don't need to send 100,000 troops to the Middle East, we need to send 100,000 doctors and teachers along with freighters full of food and supplies.

And here I was thinking it was because of a dangerous ideology convincing people that what they're doing is not only justified, but seen as glory in the eyes of God, and nothing they can do in life even compares to the cause they are following.

But all this time it's just been ISIS paying people to do it. Who knew?
 

Klossen

Banned
It all comes back to abject poverty. Groups like ISIS don't happen when you have a population with a thriving economy that can afford to feed, clothes, and shelter itself. Groups like ISIS happen because they approach people who've been watching their children starve to death and they say "strap this bomb to your chest and we'll give your family $10,000". We don't need to send 100,000 troops to the Middle East, we need to send 100,000 doctors and teachers along with freighters full of food and supplies.

A good portion of ISIS is foreign fighters from Europe who leave behind a comfortable life to wage war and wreck havoc. 100,000 doctors can't save a city from being sacked by ISIS.
 

Hex

Banned
Hundreds of people are leaving Europe to join ISIS, it's not the only factor.

Yeah, they are not giving starving families 10k to strap a bomb. They do not have to.
That is some western propaganda bullshit.
Yes those people who are in bad situations are easily suggestable , desperate even and that is where the opening comes
 
Egyptian passport 'belonged to victim'
Posted at 11.12

An Egyptian passport found at the scene of the Stade de France explosions and linked to the attackers belonged to an Egyptian victim, the country's ambassador to France has said.

Ihab Badawi said that the passport belongs to Waleed Abdel-Razzak, a football fan who was critically injured in the attack.

"No charges have been directed at Abdel-Razzak at all," Mr Badawi told Egypt's CBC news channel.

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-34825270?ocid=socialflow_twitter
 

Crisco

Banned
A good portion of ISIS is foreign fighters from Europe who leave behind a comfortable life to wage war and wreck havoc. 100,000 doctors can't save a city from being sacked by ISIS.

Sure, and you have people who leave behind comfortable lives here in the US to join street gangs. It happens, but it's not the core of the problem. The group never exists in the first place without the conditions I described. We can bomb and kill all we want, but if afterwards we just leave the region in the same poor condition it's been in the last 30-50 years, it's just going to happen all over again.
 
It all comes back to abject poverty. Groups like ISIS don't happen when you have a population with a thriving economy that can afford to feed, clothes, and shelter itself. Groups like ISIS happen because they approach people who've been watching their children starve to death and they say "strap this bomb to your chest and we'll give your family $10,000". We don't need to send 100,000 troops to the Middle East, we need to send 100,000 doctors and teachers along with freighters full of food and supplies.
How incredibly naive.
 

Klossen

Banned
Sure, and you have people who leave behind comfortable lives here in the US to join street gangs. It happens, but it's not the core of the problem. The group never exists in the first place without the conditions I described. We can bomb and kill all we want, but if afterwards we just leave the region in the same poor condition it's been in the last 30-50 years, it's just going to happen all over again.

Well, we can definitely work to improve the social conditions sure but the situation now does demand a military presence to stop the onslaught of ISIS. The bombings are done to specifically cripple ISIS' advances. That too is very important.
 
Sure, and you have people who leave behind comfortable lives here in the US to join street gangs. It happens, but it's not the core of the problem. The group never exists in the first place without the conditions I described. We can bomb and kill all we want, but if afterwards we just leave the region in the same poor condition it's been in the last 30-50 years, it's just going to happen all over again.
Sending in doctors and teachers now will do nothing to solve anything. The region ISIS controls is already fucked, so military intervention is needed. How precisely is up for debate.

Afterwards, we can look at rebuilding. But that is far more complicated then just sending over teachers, doctors and food. How do you think it will be received if suddenly you have Western nations running the schools there.

Should we help the countries there? Yes. But more then that, they need to finally set aside some of their own differences - and the political backstabbing and bullshit their leaders are playing - and work together for a better future. And that is not something outsiders will be able to just fix.
 

szaromir

Banned
Good job on ignoring rest what I said and your analogy doesn't work because that's not what I said. I never said the unjust treatment of Germany post-WW1 was a justification of WW2 because that's what your analogy implies. Where did you pull that out of? I didn't say that, I said one of the reasons of WW2 and the Nazi party existing is due to the economic situation in Germany of post-WW1, the forced changes, the presentation of the prime evil being Germany in WW1/post-WW1.
Any way this is off-topic to the thread so I'd rather not discuss it here.
There's been plenty of countries/nations throughout history that were screwed as a result of losing a war (and far worse than Germany after WW1), yet it's one of the few times that a nation willingly handed the power to warmongering genocidal scumbags and went with it for the next 12 years. You might see it as a natural and logical consequence of WWI, I see it as evil and cowardly on the part of the German nation of that era.
 

petran79

Banned
A good portion of ISIS is foreign fighters from Europe who leave behind a comfortable life to wage war and wreck havoc. 100,000 doctors can't save a city from being sacked by ISIS.

West needs to put aside the rhetoric and support Assad.
I mean Jordan and Saudi Arabia governments are not there by the will of the people either yet they get full western support. Only the state can guarantee stability and health.
 
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