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Paris Terrorist Attacks, 120+ dead. Do not post hearsay/unsourced/old news.

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G

gutter_trash

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
When it comes to Syria, Vox has some good info on what a clusterfuck it is

ISIS_map_jane_s_july.0.png


And a 5 minute video:
http://www.vox.com/2015/11/14/9735102/syria-isis-history-video
Click to expand...

excellent post and proof that it is a geo-political cluster fuck of all proportions.
 
CHEEZMO™

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
Have been out of the loop since friday night (about an hour or so after everything seemed to be over). What have I missed? Things clarified? Cheers.
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
Kadayi said:
You feign concern on one hand over the 'thousands in Ukraine', but the truth of the matter is all you're concerned about is US foreign policy. With you its never been about saving lives, if it was you'd readily acknowledge the greater threat ISIS pose to world stability and the necessity for countries to work together to defeat it despite their political differences, just like the US and USSR did in WWII
Click to expand...

Dude. I'm not even disagreeing with any of this. If Russia was actually fighting ISIS I wouldn't even said anything. But current strategy of bombing ISIS isn't working. And what they are talking about isn't change in strategy it's more of the same.

Also US foreign policy kind of sucks and I'm not defending it. In fact the coverage of the Paris bombing is worse in the US. Not sure where you are getting any of this bullshit.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
pgtl_10 said:
Jaques Chirac said that attacking Iraq would be opening Pandora's box. I wish America listen to him instead of calling the French cowards and calling their french fries freedom fries.
Click to expand...

they wouldn't attack Iraq so much as work together with the Iraqi forces. Of course then they'd have to go in bed with Iran and Russia as well, until the ISIS-claimed territory has been liberated anyway, but I'd say that is a reasonable compromise for the time being

either they'll commence military actions again ISIS, which comes at the cost of risking their own soldier's lives and might trigger an even stronger counter-response but might potentially stabilize the region
or they won't, at which point the status quo is upheld, they may become the target of future terror attacks and ISIS still remains a threat
 
K

Kabouter

Member
Kadayi said:
You feign concern on one hand over the 'thousands in Ukraine', but the truth of the matter is all you're concerned about is US foreign policy. With you its never been about saving lives, if it was you'd readily acknowledge the greater threat ISIS pose to world stability and the necessity for countries to work together to defeat it despite their political differences, just like the US and USSR did in WWII
Click to expand...

You think a Ukrainian is feigning concern over thousands of people murdered in Ukraine by Russian aggression?
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
Simon Belmont said:
Right, but Hannibal and Carthage is not a good example of that. Carthage wasn't desperate when they started that war, and Hannibal was one of many generals in a war, not a political figure. Furthermore, it's hard to say he was a despot because he didn't really govern anywhere.
Click to expand...

His point was plenty of countries have lost a war without getting desperate enough to give a power to someone like Hitler, specifically citing blood-thirsty tendencies. The Punic Wars seemed like a decent comparison for a previously thriving "country" losing a war, being hamstrung by post-war terms, and then ultimately giving power to a reasonably genocide friendly individual.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
szaromir said:
For you it's just a game that doesn't amount to anything, for the peoples of Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine etc. Russian imperialism is very real has brought a fuckton of victims in the last 25 years. (American imperialism isn't much better, but hey that just a game that leaves developed countries unaffected so who cares)
Click to expand...

I'm not letting Russia off the hook for sins and nor do I let the US off for theirs, but in this particular case the issue is one of dealing with ISIS, so whataboutism is kind beside the point.

Resident_UA said:
Russia caused way more that 120 civilian deaths in Ukraine. MH17 alone is more deaths than in Paris. Even than I can agree that ISIS is worse than Russia. I'm just saying that EU ignores things that are not politically convenient. Not sure why you are getting personal. I also mentioned Beirut. Do you have a vile response to that?!
Click to expand...

How big of you. So I take it you're retracting you objection that the US shouldn't work with the Russians to help stabilize the region to deal with ISIS for the greater good then? Because thes only viable solution is a combined strategy when all is said and done, and pussy footing arriving at that decision merely cost more lives everyday.
 
P

pgtl_10

Member
Violet_0 said:
they wouldn't attack Iraq so much as work together with the Iraqi forces. Of course then they'd have to go in bed with Iran and Russia as well, until the ISIS-claimed territory has been liberated anyway, but I'd say that is a reasonable compromise for the time being

either they'll commence military actions again ISIS, which comes at the cost of risking their own soldier's lives and might trigger an even stronger counter-response but might potentially stabilize the region
or they won't, at which point the status quo is upheld, they may become the target of future terror attacks and ISIS still remains a threat
Click to expand...

Wrong time period dude.I am talking pre-Iraq invasion.
 
L

Lumpy Onion

Member
Jb said:
Was he talking about the attacks in Turkey, Beiruth and the rest of the region when they actually happened? I know I was because that's my field of interest, but it seems like a lot of people, especially on the radical left, are just bringing it up now because they're sick of hearing about the Paris attacks, framing it in an incredibly reductive muslims vs white europeans narrative.

I still remember this gem from January after Charlie Hebdo was massacred.

assholesda4k.png


Oh yes, I'm still salty.
Click to expand...
Never heard him mention what's happening in the countries you mentioned till yesterday. I just can't understand one-upping someone over what tragedies someone should be concerned about. Is it some kind of sick moral superiority then need to project to show how much better they are? Sad stuff especially coming from someone I know who I considered to be very intelligent.

Yeah that tweet is gross, pretty much of the same ilk.
 
J

Jisgsaw

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I may have to refresh on my German history, but Germany did go massively into debt during WW1 with the idea being that their war victories would end up paying off the debt and I believe that this debt was the main economic burden on the country post-WW1.

The Treaty obviously did not help things though.
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IIRC, the debt was the reason Germany capitulated during WWI (Germany's borders weren't breached during the conflict).
But it's definitively the treaty that put them in misery, and prevented the economic rebound needed in the first place to be able to pay of the sums demanded by France. It also highly stirred the public opinion by forcing the land to give over territories and make them sole responsible for the war, which is... alittle oversimplification of what happened in 1914.

szaromir said:
There's been plenty of countries/nations throughout history that were screwed as a result of losing a war (and far worse than Germany after WW1), yet it's one of the few times that a nation willingly handed the power to warmongering genocidal scumbags and went with it for the next 12 years. You might see it as a natural and logical consequence of WWI, I see it as evil and cowardly on the part of the German nation of that era.
Click to expand...

Napoleon comes to mind. Edit: misread, doesn't really apply; though Napoleon certainly wasn't a saint.
There also are very rare instance similar to what happened to WWI; as far as I know, losing sides were usually either conquered or thoroughly repressed, on top of usually involving smaller sides.


On topic: seems like the edict (?) preventing popular gatherings in Paris wasn't very effective...
https://twitter.com/FredericAuregan/status/665942412158705665/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
Kadayi said:
How big of you. So I take it you're retracting you objection that the US shouldn't work with the Russians to help stabilize the region to deal with ISIS for the greater good then? Because the only viable solution is a combined strategy when all is said and done, and pussy footing around that merely cost more lives everyday.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Are you confusing me with somebody else. Personally I oppose to Russia much more because I'm biased and I get more pissed off when Ukrainians die. But I do realize that ISIS is causing more harm, especially to the people who live in that region. US is partially responsible for existence of ISIS. And US foreigh policy is kind of shitty.

I don't agree that ISIS can be stopped by bombing and ground invasion would be to costly, but that's a separate issue that has nothing to do with Russia.

Most of the bombings that Russia is doing are not against ISIS.

All of these are separate issues. Which one you are disagreeing with?
 
B

BaronLundi

Member
Sorry, a lot of different twitter feeds of on site people. Can't list them all now.

Could be a false alarm but the place was definitely evacuated.
 
P

pgtl_10

Member
Resident_UA said:
What are you talking about? Are you confusing me with somebody else. Personally I oppose to Russia much more because I'm biased and I get more pissed off when Ukrainians die. But I do realize that ISIS is causing more harm, especially to the people who live in that region. US is partially responsible for existence of ISIS. And US foreigh policy is kind of shitty.

I don't agree that ISIS can be stopped by bombing and ground invasion would be to costly, but that's a separate issue that has nothing to do with Russia.

Most of the bombings that Russia is doing are not against ISIS.

Alls of these are separate issues. Which one you are disagreeing with?
Click to expand...

I can understand this sentiment.

As for Russia not bombing Isis, it makes sense because Russia doesn't want to see Assad fall by the hands of Jubhat Al-Nusra. Attacking ISIS in an air campaign is pointless if Assad can't get control of those that are an immediate threat to him.
 
M

MechaX

Member
I just saw Trump's... thoughts on the situation.

Yep, more guns are certainly going to help against fucking grenades in a theater. For fuck's sake man...
 
S

SpaceBridge

Member
Footage of how the panic spread was scary. Wow.

Edit: the way that panic spreads without any words just how the herd mentality sets in really is frightening.

CNN saying a consistent build up police in the area now. Still no confirmation of anything.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
So the guy on the run is a 21 year old French national with 'known links' to ISIS.

So how many young Muslims are wandering around France with 'known links' to ISIS and why are they not being locked up.
 
K

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
cyberheater said:
So the guy on the run is a 21 year old French national with 'known links' to ISIS.

So how many young Muslims are wandering around France with 'known links' to ISIS and why are they not being locked up.
Click to expand...

I imagine it's not always clear that they have links with ISIS, and obviously you can't just start spying on Muslim nationals (or even immigrants) on the off-chance that they might be terrorists. That would create a political shitstorm (for good reason).
 
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