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[The perfect Dark]

Possibly coalition planes bombed Raqqa before.

Whoops, my bad.

 

[Hex]

The whole point of Friday's attack was that it was retaliatory.

It was also in tandem with US forces, they did not just go off half cocked

The French defense ministry has said the “massive” airstrikes which hit Raqqa on Sunday night, was carried out in coordination with US forces. Twenty bombs were dropped, destroying a command center, jihadi recruitment center, a munitions depot and a training camp for fighters, the defense ministry said in a statement.

 

[Pterion]

France has been bombing them for a while.

Hence the retaliation attack in Paris the other day.

Why would they retaliate if bombings aren't effective?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

In Raqqa?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_intervention_against_ISIL

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

the only way ISIS and the like are beaten is if the Middle East countries join in a serious, long term military, political and cultural solution. it's either that or face a 50 year occupation by western powers and watch the region get carved up again.

 

[B!TCH]

GAF-bros and sisters, some of my good friends were killed in the attack at Bataclan. I found out just now. I don't know what to say or do right now. I don't feel angry about it or have any thoughts on the politics involved, I'm just mindlessly clicking links on my browser trying to think of something else because a part of me doesn't want to believe that they are really gone.

Please treat each other kindly.

 

[Squalor]

It was also in tandem with US forces, they did not just go off half cocked

I'm talking about the attack on France. That was retaliatory.

Somehow, you missed that.

 

[G-Unit]

GAF-bros and sisters, some of my good friends were killed in the attack at Bataclan. I found out just now. I don't know what to say or do right now. I don't feel angry about it or have any thoughts on the politics involved, I'm just mindlessly clicking links on my browser trying to think of something else because a part of me doesn't want to believe that they are really gone.

Please treat each other kindly.

sorry to hear that Maybe seek company right now.

 

[Hex]

I'm talking about the attack on France. That was retaliatory.

Somehow, you missed that.

By a wide margin I would say.
Thought it was about the strikes in Raqqa most recently.
Moo Moo.

 

[anaron]

GAF-bros and sisters, some of my good friends were killed in the attack at Bataclan. I found out just now. I don't know what to say or do right now. I don't feel angry about it or have any thoughts on the politics involved, I'm just mindlessly clicking links on my browser trying to think of something else because a part of me doesn't want to believe that they are really gone.

Please treat each other kindly.

Oh my god

I'm truly so sorry for your loss. The pain you must be in...my complete condolences.

 

[AngryNapkin]

If anyone is curious about a libertarian response:

http://www.jasonstapleton.com/how-do-you-kill-an-idea/

He has spent the better part of 5 years in the Middle East with Marine Special Forces and as a contractor. Was a die hard neoconservative initially but came around to liberatrianism because of what he has experienced.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

uh actually they do want people to respond with violence, ISIS is a death seeking terrorist group trying to start a holy war with the west to begin the apocalypse. The more fighting there is the more they can play it into their narrative and get more people to join them.


Now don't get it twisted I'm not saying to do nothing, I personally got no problem with people bombing them to hell, if anything all I'm saying is that shit is fucked either way.

If they want to be sent to meet their maker and 72 virgins, then let's just oblige, I'm pretty sure while we can't get rid of every single one of those scumbags, we can thin the herd a little bit.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

If they want to be sent to meet their maker and 72 virgins, then let's just oblige, I'm pretty sure while we can't get rid of every single one of those scumbags, we can thin the herd a little bit.

15 years and 2 ground wars haven't thinned the herd yet though. I'm all for a response but let's not fool ourselves here.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

GAF-bros and sisters, some of my good friends were killed in the attack at Bataclan. I found out just now. I don't know what to say or do right now. I don't feel angry about it or have any thoughts on the politics involved, I'm just mindlessly clicking links on my browser trying to think of something else because a part of me doesn't want to believe that they are really gone.

Please treat each other kindly.

Shit...

My condolences

Try not to stay alone.

 

[Cereal Enthusiast]

I have a question, what is stopping ISIS to drop bombs in Paris (like France does in Syria right now) ?

 

[TheRealTalker]

I have a question, what is stopping ISIS to drop bombs in Paris (like France does in Syria right now) ?

what you mean airstrikes?

well first they'd need a air-force

 

[Hex]

Eh..that is not nice and this is not the place for it.
Everyone has an opinion.

 

[Cereal Enthusiast]

what you mean airstrikes?

well first they'd need a air-force

Yes. So they don't have an air-force ?

 

[Kenshin001]

I have a question, what is stopping ISIS to drop bombs in Paris (like France does in Syria right now) ?

Their hot air balloons are not powerful enough to carry bombs.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I have a question, what is stopping ISIS to drop bombs in Paris (like France does in Syria right now) ?

About 3,900 kilometers of Mediterranean sea and islands therein, as well as ISIS not possessing an air force with which to drop bombs, let alone one that can penetrate French air defenses.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Yes. So they don't have an air-force ?

No. ISIS does not have an air force.

 

[lastplayed]

Yes. So they don't have an air-force ?

Even if they did, they wouldn't get anywhere near France without being shot at.

 

[Hex]

I have a question, what is stopping ISIS to drop bombs in Paris (like France does in Syria right now) ?

Yeah planes would also be spotted almost immediately going airborne and a response scrambled.
You can not really hide or blend in something like that.

 

[Xando]

I have a question, what is stopping ISIS to drop bombs in Paris (like France does in Syria right now) ?

First they would need a air force, second they would have somehow survive flying from syria to france without being being destroyed by AA.

 

[Joni]

Even if they had an airforce, jets breaking international airspace would lead to someone going up and shooting them down.

 

[Squalor]

By a wide margin I would say.
Thought it was about the strikes in Raqqa most recently.
Moo Moo.

Haha, it's cool. It's easy to get lost among the comments and context.

 

[Violet_0]

Yes. So they don't have an air-force ?

no, they don't have multi-million dollars fighting jets or anyone to pilot them. They're a loosely organized terror group

 

[Fularu]

The whole point of Friday's attack was that it was retaliatory.

I'm not sure.

Among western nations, France has had the largest number of people joining ISIS.

Right now it's probably prety easy for ISIS to target France because it has thousands of them within its force locally and thousands more in France and Belgium.

 

[Cereal Enthusiast]

Ok thanks guys for the responses (sorry if it's a stupid question, I don't know much about this).

 

[Joni]

no, they don't have multi-million dollars fighting jets or anyone to pilot them. They're a loosely organized terror group

Well, they might have jets stolen from Syria. They mainly can't fly them. If they ever get used, I'm not expecting them to be more than kamikaze efforts launched at nearby nations.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Eh..that is not nice and this is not the place for it.
Everyone has an opinion.

how is it horseshit? 15 years after 9/11 and we are actually worse off. there has to be more than just dropping bombs.
edit: you edited. you should stand behind your words, it's not like what you said would get you banned.

 

[Shoogoo]

They have a few (stolen) planes, but not many.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

If anyone is curious about a libertarian response:

http://www.jasonstapleton.com/how-do-you-kill-an-idea/

He has spent the better part of 5 years in the Middle East with Marine Special Forces and as a contractor. Was a die hard neoconservative initially but came around to liberatrianism because of what he has experienced.

Basically he advocates inaction.

The problem is that inaction won't achieve what he wants, which is for the Sunnis and the Shias to destroy each other without us being targeted, there's too much proxy fighting, both Iran and Saudi Arabia are bad actors, Iraq will still be a bad mix because everybody from the Kurds to the Sunnis to the Shias want to rule their own territories.

 

[Squalor]

I'm not sure.

Among western nations, France has had the largest number of people joining ISIS.

Right now it's probably prety easy for ISIS to target France because it has thousands of them within its force locally and thousands more in France and Belgium.

I mean, if the attackers say they're attacking coalition nations in retaliation for continued attacks against them, I'm going to just believe the attackers.

Sure, France could have been the "easiest" to hit in this manner. That doesn't mean the reason wasn't still retaliation.

 

[Violet_0]

Well, they might have jets stolen from Syria. They mainly can't fly them. If they ever get used, I'm not expecting them to be more than kamikaze efforts launched at nearby nations.

I know they've conquered a number of tanks from the fleeing Iraqi troops, but to my knowledge they don't possess any airborne combat vehicles (or apparently, they do?). And in any case, yeah they wouldn't be able to operate them or have the infrastructure to use them efficiently

 

[NilaDebila]

I'd like to see even a single example of someone who went full extremist and reverted back back to non-crazy status.

Try to see if you can somewhere find the documentary 'Warriors of the North'. It's about young guys without much opportunity getting lured in extremist circles, getting promised a life with meaning (as sick as that meaning may be). Apparently there are many who realize their mistake after seeing the misery in the war-torn countries they are trained in, and get second thoughts on blowing themselves up ´for a greater good´.

Returning to their home countries can be difficult though, as they are now labelled as terrorists or supporting of terrorist organizations. Leaving an organization like ISIS al Al-Shabaab is not an easy feat. When your escape fails, you will be executed. Returning to their home countries is not very attractive either, as you are liable for a prison sentence and even less oppurtunity then the situation that led to radicalization.


A short article about the documentary:
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2015/08/warriors-north-150826083509182.html

An interesting article about a ´rehab´ for Danish people who travelled to Syria to participate in the war effort and made it back:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...rehab-syrian-fighters-201496125229948625.html

 

[Hex]

how is it horseshit? 15 years after 9/11 and we are actually worse off. there has to be more than just dropping bombs.
edit: you edited. you should stand behind your words, it's not like what you said would get you banned.

It is giving nothing.
It is an entire blog, the first half spent trying to convince you that he is a man's man the second half convincing you that he understands what is going on and the third saying that he has no idea what to do or what will work.
Thus horse shit.
If the feeble attempt at seeding thoughts of just leaving the entirety of the middle east alone and letting ISIS run amok and do what it will is honestly his serious plan thinking that in some way that will make it better? Make them stop hating France or the US? Is that his serious thought on things? "Destroying the idea?"
Yea we are worse off because we created a monster called ISIS in the void that was left and because the entirety of the original operation was a huge clusterfuck.
That ship has sailed.
Again I am sure there are a thousand more appropriate threads for this topic.

 

[Fularu]

I mean, if the attackers say they're attacking coalition nations in retaliation for continued attacks against them, I'm going to just believe the attackers.

Sure, France could have been the "easiest" to hit in this manner. That doesn't mean the reason wasn't still retaliation.

France's involvment in Irak was fairly recent, and in Syria (at least against ISIS) even more so. I doubt they targeted France specifically as a retaliatory gesture. It's much more likely because France has the largest muslim population in Europe and a lot of them are disenfranchised with their life in France and how they percieve beeing treaten as second class citizen within the country.

If ISIS was about retaliation for beeing bombed, their bigest target would be the USA, yet hitting them is a lot harder (despite having hundreds of "militants" from the US on the ground in Syria) that say, hitting up Paris.

 

[Squalor]

France's involvment in Irak was fairly recent, and in Syria (at least against ISIS) even more so. I doubt they targeted France specifically as a retaliatory gesture. It's much more likely because France has the largest muslim population in Europe and a lot of them are disenfranchised with their life in France and how they percieve beeing treaten as second class citizen within the country.

If ISIS was about retaliation for beeing bombed, their bigest target would be the USA, yet hitting them is a lot harder (despite having hundreds of "militants" from the US on the ground in Syria) that say, hitting up Paris.

ISIS already said the US is the biggest target and that they were coming for us.

What you're saying has nothing to do with the fact that they attacked France out of retaliation. You're just talking logistics.

 

[Machina]

A VERY disturbing photo of the Bataclan aftermath has leaked onto the internet. Be careful not to stumble across it if you're the queezy type.

 

[AngryNapkin]

Basically he advocates inaction.

The problem is that inaction won't achieve what he wants, which is for the Sunnis and the Shias to destroy each other without us being targeted, there's too much proxy fighting, both Iran and Saudi Arabia are bad actors, Iraq will still be a bad mix because everybody from the Kurds to the Sunnis to the Shias want to rule their own territories.

I believe he is ultimately saying what is the better course of action: trillions more spent on a war that will ultimately be faught by America, thousands more Americans dead, and no strategy and no real idea of what victory looks like or disengagement police our own borders and see what happens.

You can't honestly say our actions helped anything in the past 15 years. If anything it made things drastically worse.

The only way you legitimately defeat this idea is to destroy Islam and every man woman and child who practices that faith. You kill over a billion of them and make a world law to never teach, practice or speak of it. Burn every form of Islam literature ever written, destroy every mosque world wide.

There are millions of Muslims in western countries, right now there are about a 1,000 or so in America alone that are under investigation as ISIS supporters. Start a war on the scale folks are talking about and that number is going grow far too fast for LEO to deal with. Fanning the flames over their will bring it to our streets far quicker than saying to hell with it.

 

[Hex]

A VERY disturbing photo of the Bataclan aftermath has leaked onto the internet. Be careful not to stumble across it if you're the queezy type.

Was probably the same one that was in here this morning

 

[Fularu]

ISIS already said the US is the biggest target and that they were coming for us.

What you're saying has nothing to do with the fact that they attacked France out of retaliation. You're just talking logistics.

No, the preparation for friday's attacks certainly predate by months France's involvment in Syria. They may issue a statement saying that it was in retaliation, but the fact is, they're merely doing in Europe what they've been doing in the middle east for the past few years, and that's "reaching further".

Again, France is an easy target because of how ISIS is structured and built. France is a very fertile breeding soil for them and has most definitely be targeted as such and not "because let's retaliate".

 

[Phantast2k]

ISIS is getting bombed by France:

First pic from French MoD of tonight's military operation by French jets against IS targets in #raqqa #syria

France announces Raqqa airstrikes on ISIS - CNN.com

French fighter jets bombed a series of ISIS sites in Raqqa, Syria, on Sunday in what officials described as a major bombardment.

The targets included a command center, a recruitment center, an ammunition storage base and a training camp for the terror group, said Mickael Soria, press adviser for France's defense minister.

Paris attacks: Authorities hunt for a French national

ISIS claims Raqqa as the capital of its so-called caliphate. The airstrikes come two days after a series of terrorist attacks in Paris on Friday. ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attacks, which France's President described as "an act of war."

Twelve aircraft, including 10 fighter jets, were involved in Sunday's airstrikes, Soria said.

Twenty bombs were dropped, he said, and all of the targets were destroyed.

 

[Squalor]

A VERY disturbing photo of the Bataclan aftermath has leaked onto the internet. Be careful not to stumble across it if you're the queezy type.

The one inside of all the dead bodies and blood?

No, the preparation for friday's attacks certainly predate by months France's involvment in Syria. They may issue a statement saying that it was in retaliation, but the fact is, they're merely doing in Europe what they've been doing in the middle east for the past few years, and that's "reaching further".

Again, France is an easy target because of how ISIS is structured and built. France is a very fertile breeding soil for them and has most definitely be targeted as such and not "because let's retaliate".

This could have been planned within the last two months. They certainly had no clue about the refugee situation six months ago.

 

[Disxo]

A VERY disturbing photo of the Bataclan aftermath has leaked onto the internet. Be careful not to stumble across it if you're the queezy type.

My brother wanted to show me that and I was like NOPE. (How people have morbid curiosity is beyond me).

 

[BossDarkseid]

A VERY disturbing photo of the Bataclan aftermath has leaked onto the internet. Be careful not to stumble across it if you're the queezy type.

THere's one with blood and blurred out...corpses, I guess. But that's not leaked, it's been in reports on the events. I guess there's some uber fucked up uncensored one...

 

[ReadingRambo]

THere's one with blood and blurred out...corpses, I guess. But that's not leaked, it's been in reports on the events. I guess there's some uber fucked up uncensored one...

There is indeed. Terrible.

 

[JaseMath]

A VERY disturbing photo of the Bataclan aftermath has leaked onto the internet. Be careful not to stumble across it if you're the queezy type.

At least they had the good sense to blur out the victims.

 

[BossDarkseid]

There is indeed. Terrible.

Fuck that's grim.