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[Diablos]

Don't they have SWAT or whatever their version is do deal with this?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that seeing as how there were three distinct methods of attack (stadium bombing, shooting up restaurants/bars, and hostage taking) in different locations it would have no doubt been terribly difficult to get everyone in the right place at the right time to respond appropriately. It's not every day your city endures its worst attack since WW2.

 

[Kraftwerk]

Well, it begins...wonder how many of this we will see;

This is Canada;

Peterborough mosque set ablaze in suspected hate crime

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mosque-peterborough-fire-1.3320013

 

[Lender]

Some more background on Molenbeek.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-borough-in-the-spotlight-after-paris-attacks

 

[Interceptor]

What should it be then.?

The same way we won over fascism. Beat the shit out of the physical manifestation, then spend decades fighting the idea. With knowlede, humanism, eduaction and calling the problem by its name.

 

[Diablos]

Well, it begins...wonder how many of this we will see;

This is Canada;

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mosque-peterborough-fire-1.3320013

Al Qaeda and now Isis are setting back peaceful Muslims indefinitely, and this is a huge part of this tragedy that no one ever talks about. It's fucking horrible.

 

[mmazurkiewicz]

Don´t get me wrong, i am not suggesting even more open arms for the poor and mistreated civilizations of the middle east.. IS is not the problem. The virulent, violent, misanthropic, medievil ideology that is fueling those nutjobs is the problem. You can´t kill an idea with bombs. Well, bombs help but they won´t kill it.

You can kill the IS in Rakka. But the real IS is everywhere. In Paris, Belgium, New York, Madrid, London, Berlin etc. And it´s growing bigger,



Or we could actually talk about the problem instead of (just) bombing the areas already way past the point of no return.

are you willing to go in and talk to them on behalf of the west?

you'll be okay, i promise.

 

[Interceptor]

[/B]

are you willing to go in and talk to them on behalf of the west?

you'll be okay, i promise.

Talk about the problem. Read again, you will understand, i promise.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Yeah, but we should fight the concept. Even if we nuke the entire area and wipe the version of the Is that you can actually draw on a map from existence.. would it stop the enxt attack? No. The explosives were made in europe, Not in Syria. We have hundrets of thousands close to the ideology of the IS already within our borders - living with us everyday. You can´t bomb those. We have millions praying to the very same guy, (with, lets call them, liberal age limits on his love interests) the IS is praying to. Following the same guidelines as the IS does. Being the smart humans that their are they donßt follow this nonsense word by word. But the roots are already there. Knowledge, humanism and intolerance for intolerance are whats keeping this plant from growing even further.

You hold extremist mosques responsible for one of their own, these people don't just read things from the internet, there are extremist imams all over the place pushing hate and ancient sharia law, get the intelligence apparatus involved to deal with these guys.

You can never stop poverty and unemployment, you can do something about making sure the economy is doing well so more people have jobs but there are always going to unhappy people, but the last thing you want is extremist clerics pushing the disenfranchised in the wrong direction.

 

[Oriel]

What should it be then.?

Shut down mosques preaching and promoting hatred and poison to impressionable young youths in Europe's cities.
Deport radical extremists like Anjem Choudary back to their homelands.
Pressure Middle East regimes to reform or risk facing isolation from the West.
Stop supporting the Saudi regime.
Fucking sort out Syria and get a new democratic government in place.

Jihadism doesn't just create itself out of nowhere, it is nurtured and grown in extreme conditions, like in refugee camps or council slums in Western cities where Islamic extremists find eager recruits for its global campaign of Jihad. Yes let's bomb ISIS out of existence but this is only one part of the global effort to eradicate violent Islamism.

If anyone wants to stop violent Wahabbism/Salafism you kill/defeat/degrade/whatever the symptom at the same time otherwise they will keep killing and spread their ideas.

Prevention is the best medicine.

 

[Dayner_Kurdi]

i'm all in bombing and going all out war with daesh/ISIS to wipe them out from the face of the earth, but the problem is what after, as muslim and as arab, something even more evil will born from the ashes of ISIS,

if stopping daesh is the main goal, then world leader must do something about the ideology.

 

[Ithil]

Don´t get me wrong, i am not suggesting even more open arms for the poor and mistreated civilizations of the middle east.. IS is not the problem. The virulent, violent, misanthropic, medievil ideology that is fueling those nutjobs is the problem. You can´t kill an idea with bombs. Well, bombs help but they won´t kill it.

You can kill the IS in Rakka. But the real IS is everywhere. In Paris, Belgium, New York, Madrid, London, Berlin etc. And it´s growing bigger,



Or we could actually talk about the problem instead of (just) bombing the areas already way past the point of no return.

The problem is you can't talk to the IS. It's effectively in their tenants that peace talks or diplomacy are off the table.

 

[D4Danger]

Or we could actually talk about the problem instead of (just) bombing the areas already way past the point of no return.

if they're past the point of no return then why does anyone care if they're bombed into oblivion?

are we supposed to care about the terrorists? open a dialogue with them? maybe start a trade agreement? no.

 

[antonz]

People who think we can defeat ISIS with kindness are frankly deluding themselves.

Radicalism will ebb and flow and it needs to be confronted when it is on the rise.

 

[Abinash117]

Shut down mosques preaching and promoting hatred and poison to impressionable young youths in Europe's cities.
Deport radical extremists like Anjem Choudary back to their homelands.
Pressure Middle East regimes to reform or risk facing isolation from the West.
Stop supporting the Saudi regime.
Fucking sort out Syria and get a new democratic government in place.

Jihadism doesn't just create itself out of nowhere, it is nurtured and grown in extreme conditions, like in refugee camps or council slums in Western cities where Islamic extremists find eager recruits for its global campaign of Jihad. Yes let's bomb ISIS out of existence but this is only one part of the global effort to eradicate violent Islamism.



Prevention is the best medicine.

Exactly, killing/defeating those groups prevents them from spreading and killing people.

People who think we can defeat ISIS with kindness are frankly deluding themselves.

Radicalism will ebb and flow and it needs to be confronted when it is on the rise.

Of course people going to say that since many aren't the ones that live in Iraq, Syria, Africa, etc


Tbh, it really doesn't matter what they say they aren't going to do much with it and no government official is going to listen or stop others from fighting against those terror groups.

 

[Interceptor]

You hold extremist mosques responsible for one of their own, these people don't just read things from the internet, there are extremist imams all over the place pushing hate and sharia law, get the intelligence apparatus involved to deal with these guys.

You can never stop poverty and unemployment, you can do something about making sure the economy is doing well so more people have jobs but there are always going to unhappy people, but the last thing you want is extremist clerics pushing the disenfranchised in the wrong direction.

What poverty, what unemployment? 9/11 was carried out by educated guys with university degress. How can anyone in 2015 still believe in economical reasons for going "into the wrong direction"? Are the Saudis poor? Are the top Imams of Wahabism poor? Was Muhammed poor? The problem is a single book. A single book that can burn and melt entire brains. A book so poorly and badly written, almost no one ever discussing these topics even dares to read it. But you should. Its all in there. Ban this book and everthing that comes with it. No job will help you here.

 

[Diablos]

I hate to sound like a Fox News anchor but you can't reason with someone who is determined without hesitation to commit suicide after killing as many people as possible in the most horrific of ways. They are ready to die by their own hand. More than ready. These people are beyond reasoning with, they are literally insane. They are on a mission that is between them and their warped view of Islam. Nothing else matters.

 

[Abinash117]

Talk about the problem. Read again, you will understand, i promise.

Lol, you think we don't? Really people has been talking about terrorism, religious extremist, Wahabbism/Salafism, islamist, etc for decades; ones that are far more smarter, intellectual, and qualified than you and I, and everyone here.

 

[Interceptor]

if they're past the point of no return then why does anyone care if they're bombed into oblivion?

are we supposed to care about the terrorists? open a dialogue with them? maybe start a trade agreement? no.

I don´t care if they are bombed into oblivion. Actually i support it. We are talking about grown up human beings. They decided to ruin their incredible valuable gift of life and fully developed human brain by installing some ancient software that still believes in the boogeyman. Kill them all.

But don´t forget that software. It has some incredible marketing and doesnt even have to deliver on its promises. Don´t let even more hardware be destroyed by that ancient malware. "The software isn´t the problem! - We just have to use the good parts" Won´t cut it here.

 

[sytadel]

I hate to sound like a Fox News anchor but you can't reason with someone who is determined without hesitation to commit suicide after killing as many people as possible in the most horrific of ways. They are ready to die by their own hand. More than ready. These people are beyond reasoning with, they are literally insane. They are on a mission that is between them and their warped view of Islam. Nothing else matters.

Which is why they can't be stopped, it's impossible. If ISIS are defeated another version will crop up within a few years with the same mentality.

 

[UFO]

It´s sad to see so many still believing in fighting the "terror" by killing some physical entities in a desert in Syria. You can´t beat the IS. There is no IS you could kill with bombs or guns. IS is a manifestation - not the source of the problem.

We also need to let go of the word "terror". This is far beyond terror.

You probably think this post is way deeper and intelligent then it is. The viewpoints of ISIS are not widespread enough, or sensible enough to bother attacking. They're the ramblings of a madman. This is not like fascism or communism where the government needed to attack the ideology to prevent it from spreading.

Attacking a group like this directly is the best action. Using intelligence to systematically cripple them- financially and militarily. They don't have worldwide support and can't operate without a stronghold.

You can't beat all terrorists, but they can certainly beat these terrorists.

 

[Ether_Snake]

You can't stop the earthquakes and tornadoes, so might as well build houses made of straws.

 

[Interceptor]

Lol, you think we don't? Really people has been talking about terrorism, religious extremist, Wahabbism/Salafism, islamist, etc for decades; ones that are far more smarter, intellectual, and qualified than you and I, and everyone here.

You are still using many -isms and -ists that are all just a polite excuse for not adressing the elephant in the room. Thanks for proving my point.

You can't stop the earthquakes and tornadoes, so might as well build houses made of straws.

Hmm i never said straw. I said built stone houses. Im just mocking those who believe the storm and the quakes will go away because of the stone houses. It won´t.

 

[UFO]

You are still using many -isms and -ists that are all just a polite excuse for not adressing the elephant in the room. Thanks for proving my point.

Then talk about the problem. The floor is yours.

 

[Ferulci]

For the french on this thread, I found the liberation article very touching (sorry if old) :
http://www.liberation.fr/france/2015/11/15/la-jeunesse-qui-trinque_1413680

That one resonates with me a lot

Il va nous coûter moins de courage pour demeurer de bons névrosés trop bavards, un peu alcooliques, obsédés sexuels et vaguement cultivés que de mener la tâche qui nous attend encore, plus que jamais, de faire entendre avec force une voix humaniste sous le bruit des balles.

 

[The Silver]

ISIS will never fully go away unless the condititions that led to their rise are fixed.(at the heart of it all, the now politized Sunni-Shiite divide)

al-Qaeda in Iraq was pushed out and went underground, then they just went to Syria and sprang back up again as ISIS. It can happen again, help the Muslims rise up(who to help is another issue) and push out ISIS and take back territory, then they go back underground and one day they'll just pop back up maybe stronger than ever.

 

[Scrooged]

What poverty, what unemployment? 9/11 was carried out by educated guys with university degress. How can anyone in 2015 still believe in economical reasons for going "into the wrong direction"? Are the Saudis poor? Are the top Imams of Wahabism poor? Was Muhammed poor? The problem is a single book. A single book that can burn and melt entire brains. A book so poorly and badly written, almost no one ever discussing these topics even dares to read it. But you should. Its all in there. Ban this book and everthing that comes with it. No job will help you here.

I agree that the root issue is the religion. Poverty is just an easy way to recruit people, like with any Abrahamic religion. But...banning the book? Not going to happen. The solution is to work with the true moderates of Islam and hope that the religion can reform like Christianity did. Unfortunately it doesn't look that that will happen any time soon.

 

[C0unter]

What poverty, what unemployment? 9/11 was carried out by educated guys with university degress. How can anyone in 2015 still believe in economical reasons for going "into the wrong direction"? Are the Saudis poor? Are the top Imams of Wahabism poor? Was Muhammed poor? The problem is a single book. A single book that can burn and melt entire brains. A book so poorly and badly written, almost no one ever discussing these topics even dares to read it. But you should. Its all in there. Ban this book and everthing that comes with it. No job will help you here.

Who would have realized that the way to prevent radicalization and extremism of people is to ban a text and practices people consider extremely important and an intrinsic part of their culture and heritage.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Getting rid of an ideology is really difficult, but that's doesn't mean we can't do anything to make it better. Right now we have a state that is actively working to spread that ideology, and we should really do something about it. Destroying extremist ideology might be impossible, but removing ISIS from power in the areas it controls is definitely something doable (if expensive) that would do a lot to set back the ideology. Rebuilding Iraq and Syria would be very difficult and expensive, but I think that's a better scenario then allowing ISIS continue.

The perfect solution doesn't seem to exist, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything. No we won't get rid of ISIS, but there is value in weakening it. ("Degrade and denigrate" as some might say). Like, we definitely shouldn't be allowing it to spread it's ideology and gain strength just because we can never get rid of it fully anyway.

 

[Oriel]

Exactly, killing/defeating those groups prevents them from spreading and killing people.

If that's ALL you do then another group will come along to replace ISIS and we're back to square one. Islamic Jihad gave way to AQ who gave way to ISIS. You can cleanse Syria and Iraq of these militants but they are like cockroaches, they continue to survive. AQ itself were chased from Sudan to Afghanistan to Pakistan to Yemen.

Destroying the groups is only one part of the overall strategy, the West MUST take out their main source of recruits at home by shutting down extremist mosques and imprisoning and/or deporting radical preachers. Wahabbism/Salafism is the ideology which spawns these evil terror organisations and until you remove the underlying base which gives life to ISIS/AQ/etc then this will be a war which will never end. Remove the ideology and you eliminate ISIS type organisations from forming again.

 

[Interceptor]

Then talk about the problem. The floor is yours.

Can´t, it´s forbidden.
I could attack Scientology for its inhuman guidelines and ridiculous believes and it would be ok. With the other cult it would be "racist". As i said, the marketing is incredible. Paris will happen again, many times, with or without the IS. We will find more excuses, more changed facebook profiles, more of "its all the wests fault". Nothing will change.

I agree that the root issue is the religion. Poverty is just an easy way to recruit people, like with any Abrahamic religion. But...banning the book? Not going to happen. The solution is to work with the true moderates of Islam and hope that the religion can reform like Christianity did. Unfortunately it doesn't look that that will happen any time soon.

There is no automatism that commands any religion to be reformed by some point in time. We have this strange and fuzzy feeling about religion as something esoteric, something that only bothers you, something that gives you a nice feeling in dark times. No harm done, all the same right? Like Santa for grown ups. The Problem is: Not all religions are the same. Some are just there, some are bad, some are even dangerous. No amount of people believing will change that.

 

[half a moon]

Paris will happen again but what about them making billions off oil and buying a WMD?

 

[Abinash117]

You are still using many -isms and -ists that are all just a polite excuse for not adressing the elephant in the room. Thanks for proving my point.



Hmm i never said straw. I said built stone houses. Im just mocking those who believe the storm and the quakes will go away because of the stone houses. It won´t.

Eh, no there sir/lady. People has been talking about these issues for awhile now, so saying we should talk is just doing what we are already doing. Actually addressing the issues is a more complicated matter and has been going on by governments and organizations for many years through different means including military action, so don't think you know any more than you already assume; considering just saying we should talk about like it we hadn't been is ignorant and little bit arrogant. If you already know all that and then still say that stuff, then it is redundant and pointless.

If that's ALL you do then another group will come along to replace ISIS and we're back to square one. Islamic Jihad gave way to AQ who gave way to ISIS. You can cleanse Syria and Iraq of these militants but they are like cockroaches, they continue to survive. AQ itself were chased from Sudan to Afghanistan to Pakistan to Yemen.

Destroying the groups is only one part of the overall strategy, the West MUST take out their main source of recruits at home by shutting down extremist mosques and imprisoning and/or deporting radical preachers. Wahabbism/Salafism is the ideology which spawns these evil terror organisations and until you remove the underlying base which gives life to ISIS/AQ/etc then this will be a war which will never end. Remove the ideology and you eliminate ISIS type organisations from forming again.

No shit.


Also, it isn't like they just appear out of nowhere a lot of these groups have a legacy and/or appeared in an area/country in chaos. Either destroying ISIL as it is now or degrading it enough gives a Iraq a chance to rebuild and become stabilized enough. You are also asking for stuff that is illegal or barely.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Can´t, it´s forbidden.
I could attack Scientology for its inhuman guidelines and ridiculous believes and it would be ok. With the other cult it would be "racist". As i said, the marketing is incredible. Paris will happen again, many times, with or without the IS. We will find more excuses, more changed facebook profiles, more of "its all the wests fault". Nothing will change.

What? Could you please elaborate? Or do you just want to go the Hitler route?

 

[Talonz]

My prediction is France will invoke Article 5 and NATO will go to war along with Russia if they want in and ISIS will be wiped off the map at least in Syria/Iraq.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/14/natos-turn-to-attack-paris-terrorist-isis/

 

[Interceptor]

What? Could you please elaborate? Or do you just want to go the Hitler route?

Ah nice, only one post to prove it. Awesome. ^^

 

[dabig2]

Can´t, it´s forbidden.
I could attack Scientology for its inhuman guidelines and ridiculous believes and it would be ok. With the other cult it would be "racist". As i said, the marketing is incredible. Paris will happen again, many times, with or without the IS. We will find more excuses, more changed facebook profiles, more of "its all the wests fault". Nothing will change.

I agree with you that religion is a major problem here, but it's not the problem. It's been used to justify a lot of atrocities even before Islamic terrorism was a thing to the Western world. "Opiate of the masses" and all that. But religion itself is just a symptom of a larger human problem at work here.

If Islam was this terror religion, then the world will be a whole lot shittier considering we're talking about over 1.6 billion self-identified Muslims in the world today (that's almost 1/4 of all of humanity). Paris attacks should be routine. It's not, because Islam isn't the actual problem.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Ah nice, only one post to prove it. Awesome. ^^

Prove what, exactly? It sounds like you just want Islam and Muslims to be removed from society.

 

[Gorger]

Dunno if posted, but Anonymous declares war on ISIS. Will launch their biggest operation yet.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/anonymous-declares-war-islamic-state-6839030

 

[The perfect Dark]

My prediction is France will invoke Article 5 and NATO will go to war along with Russia if they want in and ISIS will be wiped off the map at least in Syria/Iraq.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/14/natos-turn-to-attack-paris-terrorist-isis/

Yeah, that's definitely possible, (no sarcasm).

 

[Viruz]

Paris will happen again but what about them making billions of oil and buying a WMD?

Who are the buyers? How this tons (barels?) of oil reach the buyers?
How so much barels reach those buyers?

Can I live? Merci.

 

[RPGCrazied]

My prediction is France will invoke Article 5 and NATO will go to war along with Russia if they want in and ISIS will be wiped off the map at least in Syria/Iraq.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/14/natos-turn-to-attack-paris-terrorist-isis/

Should of did this a long time ago, and does it matter at this point? Sure its their base of operations, but like Paris, they are being disguised as refugees now.

 

[everyday math]

Wrong thread. >_>

 

[Ovid]

My prediction is France will invoke Article 5 and NATO will go to war along with Russia if they want in and ISIS will be wiped off the map at least in Syria/Iraq.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/14/natos-turn-to-attack-paris-terrorist-isis/

I can see Article 5 happening but not with Russia at their side.

 

[RPGCrazied]

This is neat.
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/t31.0-8/11051763_458239617716130_4059816826321331047_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9[/mg][/QUOTE]

Wrong thread?

 

[Oriel]

Paris will happen again

Another terror attack? Highly probable.

but what about them making billions off oil and buying a WMD?

W-w-what?!

Wrong thread?

It is neat though.

 

[Interceptor]

I agree with you that religion is a major problem here, but it's not the problem. It's been used to justify a lot of atrocities even before Islamic terrorism was a thing to the Western world. "Opiate of the masses" and all that. But religion itself is just a symptom of a larger human problem at work here.

If Islam was this terror religion, then the world will be a whole lot shittier considering we're talking about over 1.6 billion self-identified Muslims in the world today (that's almost 1/4 of all of humanity). Paris attacks should be routine. It's not, because Islam isn't the actual problem.

And maybe, just maybe, Religion is the problem this time. What if its Relgion causing the atrocities, what if religion is not being used but actually the entity using? What if those so endlessly quoted 1.6b are just like you and me and simply don´t care about their religion. Which makes them awesome human beings, but bad adepts of their book.

Prove what, exactly? It sounds like you just want Islam and Muslims to be removed from society.

Islam? Yes. Muslims? No. We need to help them.

 

[everyday math]

Wrong thread?

Just a little lol
I'll just take the back way out. Don't mind me. >_>

 

[UFO]

Can´t, it´s forbidden.
I could attack Scientology for its inhuman guidelines and ridiculous believes and it would be ok. With the other cult it would be "racist". As i said, the marketing is incredible. Paris will happen again, many times, with or without the IS. We will find more excuses, more changed facebook profiles, more of "its all the wests fault". Nothing will change.

So you just hate Muslims or something? I understand believing religion is a major cause of war and hatred but I don't see how Islam is any more responsible then Christianity/ Judisim/ etc. Maybe it is right now, because of the extremists, but not in a historical sense.

 

[leatherhat]

I agree with you that religion is a major problem here, but it's not the problem. It's been used to justify a lot of atrocities even before Islamic terrorism was a thing to the Western world. "Opiate of the masses" and all that. But religion itself is just a symptom of a larger human problem at work here.

If Islam was this terror religion, then the world will be a whole lot shittier considering we're talking about over 1.6 billion self-identified Muslims in the world today (that's almost 1/4 of all of humanity). Paris attacks should be routine. It's not, because Islam isn't the actual problem.

Religious violence is routine in the Middle East. And increasingly common in the west.

 

[Diablos]

Dunno if posted, but Anonymous declares war on ISIS. Will launch their biggest operation yet.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/anonymous-declares-war-islamic-state-6839030

Good.