The perfect Dark
Banned
How about not letting those terrorists enter the country after they fought in Syria and killed countless people?
Yeah, that's the problem.
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Paris Terrorist Attacks, 120+ dead. Do not post hearsay/unsourced/old news.
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How about not letting those terrorists enter the country after they fought in Syria and killed countless people?
Yeah, that's the problem.
Quick buy XBone stock! PS4 backlash is about to begin.
.. wait? How did the goverment fail exactly? How the fuck do you fight against something or someone who could be your neighbour?
You seem to have no clue as to what 'the government' could have realistically done to stop these kinds of attacks from happening. That's an utopian viewpoint that's completely unrealistic.
If these terrorists are completely and utterly devoted to these attacks, they will eventually succeed no matter what. You could have locked down France like Orwell's '1984' and still have people slip through the cracks. You can't manage and monitor every single individual in a country with 70 million people.
SomedayTheFire
Member
It's been 3 days, these things take time. There's a lot of stuff happening in the background you don't see. Why mention citizen's then?
Edit: yeah what hoo-doo said
It was suggested in this Forbes article.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...ris-isis-terrorists-used-ps4-to-plan-attacks/
To be honest, it's not as crazy as it sounds.
Wii U was included as a method of communication as well.
Well it's all relative. If it's 3 attacks out of 4 planned, then it is a poor track record. If it is 3 attacks out of 30 planned, then it is a pretty outstanding track record. Security is very hard, not sure why so many people try to trivialize the task of preventing terrorist attacks of this sort. There will always be things that can be improved upon, but I would recommend going through some of the literature (academic and/or from governmental sources) from the field to gain a better understanding of what they face.
Also don't forget that UK numbers are not verifiable. It is in the interest of the governments to make sure the citizens feel safe. It might be true, but it might also be completely made up.
If it 3 out of 3, no. If it is 3 out of 100? There is an easy way to stop all of them. But jailing anyone that is a bit suspect might be counterproductive.
There are like 15.000 people with an "S" file in France (suposed radicalization).
What do you want to do, incarcerate all of them on the thin ground that they may (... or may not) actually be terrorists? Last I checked, France was still a state of rights.
IIRC, Valls stated that France stopped like 8 other attacks this ear. There's a lot going on under the scene that we're not aware of.
That should indeed be a focus right now. Especially concidering there aren't only terrorists, but also armed gangs i nthe country.
And they started to take actions at least, as shown yesterday.
Define 'ignored'.
Speaking of jailing, French prisons are supposedly 60-70% Muslim prisoners. So the government is definitely doing something, but in the future I'm sure borders and screening will likely get more intense as another security measure
The perfect Dark
Banned
It's pretty sad how people defend authorities and their mistakes after every terrorist attack. Believe what you want to believe.
hobblygobbly
Member
Reuters tweeted that a new IS video warns countries taking part in Syria airstrikes that they will face the same situation as France has, threatening Washington as well. Haven't seen any articles yet since Reuters is reporting it as breaking.
I don't think so, but the government probably does. It would be unsurprising if French/Euro Muslim prisoners were on watchlists, it is a prime recruiting opportunity for terrorism.
There are a couple of reasons for that, not really linked to terrorism:
- Most criminality is in the suburbs of the big cities, which are overwhelmingly muslim
- Police are sadly discriminative (imo) when doing controls: as a white male, I was never, ever controlled in Paris; an ethnic friend regularly gets controlled. At least that's how I feel it, may not be supported by facts.
fierrotlepou
Member
They're really cleaning house here in Belgium. Scary that there are so many radical muslims here.
Palette Swap
Member
That's not a practical answer, this is purely abstract. In a very concrete way, what could and should have been done?
I'm asking this because I think you're vague, not because I disagree with the notion that more should have been done.
Typically, western powers spent years looking the other way while a very radical Islam was taking root in some empoverished zones, and even after coming to that realization, they didn't deport the fuck out of every foreign imam who stepped out of line.
Right now, they're finally cracking down on these in a shitload of places known to be hotbeds for fundamentalism. You have to wonder why they didn't do it before.
What does "controlled" mean?
The perfect Dark
Banned
In France? Yes
In Germany? Nope. I guess we need a terror attack first before things are going to change.
Alx
Member
Hollande was at the bottom of the polls even without the terror attacks anyway, with the sluggish economy and the lack of major achievement. Valls is a much better candidate for the left, and Le Pen passing the first round has been a likely scenario for a while.
The following months will be critical for the current government to prove they can deal with such extreme situations. It can go one way or another.
If there were 3 out of 20 or 3 out of 100, shouldn't there have been some very strong action toward the source of intensified attempts?
Won't be long before they're accusing Iran of using PS4's to develop a nuke.
It's just Fox "News" doing its usual anti video games spiel without an ounce of intelligence or effort. The attackers could easily have used Snapchat or Facebook messenger but FN wouldn't have given a shit.
Palette Swap
Member
Identity checks.
In France, anyone can be asked at any moment to show ID to prove who they are. Minorities are know to be disproportionately targeted by this.
I've never been asked to do this once in my life, and I'm 35, while I've seen other people being frisked dozens of times. It's an understatement to say it's racial profiling.
Do you realize how many attacks have been averted these past few months on french soil only? Sure, the government could do better, Trévidic clearly explained that back in september. But saying that the authorities totally and utterly failed is really far from the truth.
Like bombing ISIS which they have been doing for months?
Idendity check. And they usually check if you carry any drugs (I'm guessing a lot of prisoners are for possession/dealing).
Well, Seehofer sure seems intend to act proactively.
Well, I'd guess there's a reason why France joined in the bombing of ISI in Syria recently...
If anything, we should relate to the refugees. They fled their countries from these terrorists. And those terrorists sure as hell want us to be on bad terms with the refugees. Let's not give them that "pleasure".
I was at a big concert saturday in Belgium. We had a 1-minute "ovation" (not silence, I don't know a better word here) for France and in the name of keep living our lives. As someone who frequents concerts, knows people from Paris, and listens to Eagles of Death Metal, this all feels very close. I am so glad the security at the footballmatch was ace and prevented there being more horror.
I was at a big concert saturday in Belgium. We had a 1-minute "ovation" (not silence, I don't know a better word here) for France and in the name of keep living our lives. As someone who frequents concerts, knows people from Paris, and listens to Eagles of Death Metal, this all feels very close. I am so glad the security at the footballmatch was ace and prevented there being more horror.
The perfect Dark
Banned
Um..130 innocent people died. How would you call this? They even ignored warnings form Germany, Israel and Turkey.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Yes they also use Video Games for recruitment, Saudi Arabia media keeps warning parents to supervise their children gaming communication and inform them about any shady members. There are some cases that was presented.
I'm not defending anyone, i'm merely saying that it is absolutely impossible for the government to 100% prevent these attacks from happening. No matter their efforts.
You come across implying that the blame for these attacks rests solely with the politicians in charge. I think that's taking it too far.
I'm not saying no mistakes were made, but hindsight is 20/20.
NBC is reporting the same thing...
Palette Swap
Member
There's going to be a lot of scrutiny over this in the coming weeks. The police didn't gather that intelligence overnight, which begs the question why all this didn't happen sooner.
The answer could be as simple as the state of emergency letting them crack down every door they want without any kind of justification, but from the outside it's not a good look as it looks like they'd been sitting on all that shit doing nothing, or not enough.
Let's absolutely forget about the dozens of people who are still alive today because previous attacks have been averted.
What were those warnings? Were they good enough to be actionable?
Yeah, my own speculation is that the police knew something was up, but didn't have concrete evidence for a legal backing, the state of emergency act basically allows them to act on any suspicion they had without having to provide concrete proof for the courts. I am expecting a revamp of french and may be even european laws once the investigation is done.
The perfect Dark
Banned
Sorry but I don't agree with this, at all. If a government can't protect their own citizens from terror attacks (or "acts of war") there has to be consequences.
I think so. Source is the germen newspaper FAZ. They are reliable
Did they use Miiverse, or something else like WiiChat?
Which works wonders as we can see. But yeah, I'm sorry for doubting the efficiency of the government. Everything is perfect.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Nobody is saying everything is perfect.
What consequences? What do you think should happen?
How many warnings do they get? It is hard to judge the authorities because as far as I am aware we do not know what the normal state of affairs is. Warnings are always easy to connect after the facts, but we do not know how many they usually get and how their process of filtering is. Maybe crucial mistakes were made, maybe not, but the hard truth is that is just not possible to garantuee these things cannot happen anymore. Also, many attacks have been prevented over the years over the world thanks to authorities effectively processing threats.
While I actually agree with you, this explanation rings hollow for the same reason as the old Elephant repellent joke. Though maybe I am merely poorly informed, if you can point to a large number of prevented attacks, please do (no sarcasm intended there).
So you're complaining that they have started attacking the source behind the increased attacks after complaining that they didn't do enough to stop the source behind the increased attacks.
I'm not disputing that there has been a warning. If the warning is nothing more than that there will be attacks sometimes by ISIS, it is not actionable.
Well, all the answers that I got were because I said that the French and Belgium authorities should be questioned too about their efficiency. Denying that their actions should also be questioned is practically saying that everything is perfect
Is that what I'm saying? Read again. I'm saying that maybe they are not doing enough one way or another.
Alx
Member
Which will have to be carefully done... I'm all for bypassing some citizen rights during a state of emergency, which may last several years if necessary, but that shouldn't become the default law for the future.
It's actually a good thing that you can't enter and search any house at any time without a solid reason. I wouldn't be thrilled by a European "patriot act" set in stone.
Mario Maker coins were used as a hypothetical.
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