He could also have come in with the refugee crisis posing as a Syrian. But the general attitude of the population will not change much. The damage is done, IS has accomplished their goal of spreading fear and mistrust.
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Paris Terrorist Attacks, 120+ dead. Do not post hearsay/unsourced/old news.
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He could also have come in with the refugee crisis posing as a Syrian. But the general attitude of the population will not change much. The damage is done, IS has accomplished their goal of spreading fear and mistrust.
Palette Swap
Member
superdeluxe
Member
I thought that was pretty clear, people got hung up if the syrian passport was real or not, like that matters?
Alx
Member
The level of stupidity in this world never ceases to amaze me.
The only amusing thing in that is that for some reason they expect us to believe that the guy managed to take a picture of himself using a copy of the Quran...
Frustrated_me
Member
Same here.
It would be extremely difficult, almost impossible, but I like to think that there's some hope. Equally sharing the region with Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites - Iran, Turkey and Saudi's would need to agree upon.
Imagine that.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Those people are idiots too blinded by their need for a caring world. Sadly that world doesn't exist. Even those who admitted the possibility of terrorists entering the EU through the refugee routes, still think that admitting them all in without proper background checks are preferable.
Oh, okay, my bad then.
Resident_UA
Member
If he did come in October I think it's pretty clear that the only reason he was with the migrants was to instill prejudice in Europeans. ISIS has a lot of money. They can just bribe their way into Europe (buy fake passports, get tourist visa, etc).
SomedayTheFire
Member
Kurdistan existing is one of those things that I'd love to think there's a chance of it happening, but I just can't see it happening. Would need a radical overhaul of the government's in Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. I doubt the Saudi's would be too pleased in it existing either. Reading about how the modern nation of Iraq was created is eye opening with regards to the current conflicts and challenges in the area.
Well. It's not like we even need to get to that point.
How about people that are flagged as working with Isis lose all of their freedom :/ ?
If they decided to betray their country they deserve no second chance, at all, fuck it.
Resident_UA
Member
It's really not attitude to have. Soon you will be very safe and alive and will not be able to leave your apartment without proper documentation. I'd rather take my chances out there in "the wild".
Unless this flagging is 100% idiot proof this will end up creating more radical Muslims.
although even you have to agree that using those channels comes cheaper and easier than bribing. It's very hard to keep track of who comes in and who comes out. Just the other day a whole party of children disappeared from a refugee camp. Nobody knows who they were and where they went. It was that easy to smuggle in.
EdwardTivrusky
Member
That's my thought too. I'd rather die free than live in a prison. These rights were hard won, we should not go giving them up so easily because we will never get them back once lost.
Resident_UA
Member
Cheaper - yeas, but not easier. The journey you need to take as refugee sucks. It's not like ISIS is trying to save money in what they do. One thing is clear, we failed to cut them off from the oil supply, so money is not an issue for them.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
It's easier. The journey doesn't matter, because you get that same journey with bigger price. Human traffickers love refugees.
I can already see the neogaf thread : "Thousands of french muslims arrested over suspected terrorism". Surely that would go down well, ah.
I don't see anything clear about that, can you expand on it ? And I don't even see why that's relevant tbh, the point is a member of Daesh successfully entered Europe as a refugee.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Same, but for different reasons. (Racist, ignorant idiots.)
Resident_UA
Member
How is going through this whole thing easier than boarding a plane in Turkey for example and landing in Paris?
ISIS can buy any passport they want. The fact that they chose more time consuming option of blending in with refugees is telling.
Alx
Member
While I agreed earlier that any concession on freedom should only be temporary, in France we've always been legally required to carry "proper documentation" whenever we leave our apartment.
Think about it. They wont have the stability or the safety EU provides, those regions are rife with corruption. EU is the best option to start a new life.
Airports have higher security standards, ie. Biometric control.
This has nothing to do with being muslim.
This has to do with people leaving france for turkey then syria, being noticed by secret services, then allowed to come back and live in nearby countries. They were flagged for a reason.
They were seen talking and / or posting on social medias about their journey with Isis.
They should lose their nationality and never come back. I hardly see how that's unfair. As I said if they decided to betray their country I don't see why they deserve a second chance.
Resident_UA
Member
Not really. Nobody is scanning your face in airport. You just need to resemble a picture.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Correct. And it shouldn't surprise anyone, it was easily foreseeable. Those that did predict it though were dismissed as being racist for wanting border controls (as in, border controls that should already exist at the Schengen border) to be properly enforced.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
So I'm not getting a fingerprint and iris scan every time I enter the states? Well I do.
Enosh
Member
no the right thing to do is making sure your citizens are secure from any more potential threats, any government that puts the interest of foreigners over their own doesn't deserve to be in power
Resident_UA
Member
When you enter the states, but not when you fly within EU.
to get into France you need a biometric visa extending your stay. Which is nigh impossible thing to receive if you're a fugitive and possibly on the List. Even when you're within Schengen, the security detail remains.
Refugees on other hand may waltz in undetected with false documents and it'll take time to sort it out amidst the chaos.
those horrible events are still fresh in our minds and while it's a scary time don't let it control your life. go visit Vienna, it's a beautiful city and enjoy those 3 days.
my mom's life long dream was to see Paris. we decided to have a short trip next year. I hope she hasn't changed her mind, I still want to go. it's going to be hard to not think of the tragedy when we're there, but hopefully she can still enjoy the visit.
Okay, maybe I'm missing something, but in the case of faked passports, border controls are helpful how exactly?
SomedayTheFire
Member
Planting the idea that it was a refugee will help turn people who already don't help refugee's against the innocent refugee's even more. They could be hoping that the animosity of Europeans towards the refugees will drive more of the Syrian's to radicalize and join their fight.
Hollande called for a UN Security Council meeting. First step in invoking NATO's article 5:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/14/natos-turn-to-attack-paris-terrorist-isis/
QuicheFontaine
Member
We're not talking about people flying within the EU. We're talking about people entering the EU from outside the EU.
Resident_UA
Member
Look, I understand this sentiment. That's why I said before that as a Ukrainian personally I hate Russian government much more than I hate ISIS, but I do realize that ISIS is a huge threat. You should at least try the same logic with refugees. hundreds of killed by terrorist is bad, but you have to remember that refugee problem is even worse. Hundreds of thousand of civilians died in Syria, millions are replaced. Thousands die trying to escape. You don't have to do anything, but you could at least acknowledge that this is a huge problem.
Resident_UA
Member
Captain Smoker
Member
And what about the guys who were born in Europe?
It's not like he's going to tell you his plans if controlled at a border.
Borders are minimizing the risk, but won't do anything to solve the actual problem. And we have borders around the Schengen-space, the job of these countries is to protect the Schengen-space.
Though, you can argue that it's better to minimize the risk (more borders -> more controls -> higher chance to find a terrorist) while solving the actual problems, but since latter isn't done, it's useless in the grand picture.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Resident_UA
Member
It's still a candidate. My bad.
I'm sure I can come up with other ways to get into the EU.
EDIT: I came up with another scheme. I believe Hungary and Poland have 30 km radius where citizens of Ukraine can get into Poland/Hungary. One of those cards should not be difficult to buy. The border control is a joke. And getting into Ukraine is easy (Russian army just walked in without anyone noticing). Anyway, my point is that ISIS doesn't need this whole refugee thing to get into EU. In fact most of ISIS members are already legally in the EU.
SomedayTheFire
Member
ProfessorMoran
Member
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-jihadi-brides-complain-twitter-6825942
What I don't understand is how stupid these people have to be to join the ISIS scum not realizing that they're only really there to fight/serve/die.
Ah, alright. I didn't know they had matched fingerprints. Then there's really no doubt that he came the same way the refugees did.
French president just declared that citizen with double nationality that are flagged as national threat would lose their french nationality and be expelled.
So whoever was arguing with me, here you go.
That's the same reason Scientologists don't realize they are only recruited to give money.
Brain washing and abuse of mental weaknesses.
No...
We don't even have enough evidence to arrest them or search their homes so it's obviously not as easy as you're trying to make it sound, and you want us to revoke their nationality ??
Not to mention that you can't just get rid of people like that, revoking someone's nationality if they have dual citizenship, alright, but that other country might not want to deal them either, what then ? And if they're born in France (you know, like most of the recent terrorists were) you straight up can't revoke their nationality.
Hollande can say whatever he wants to calm the masses but extradition isn't that simple.French president just declared that citizen with double nationality that are flagged as national threat would lose their french nationality and be expelled.
So whoever was arguing with me, here you go.
Does he count like a "refugee" though?
I wouldn't say so. But it does make an argument for more strict controls.
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