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[SomedayTheFire]

Well, all the answers that I got were because I said that the French and Belgium authorities should be questioned too about their efficiency. Denying that their actions should also be questioned is practically saying that everything is perfect

Because you moved the goalposts. Not one person said or implied anything near "everything is perfect".

 

[dosh]

While I actually agree with you, this explanation rings hollow for the same reason as the old Elephant repellent joke. Though maybe I am merely poorly informed, if you can point to a large number of prevented attacks, please do (no sarcasm intended there).

Back in april, Valls mentionned that five attacks had been adverted in the previous months. There was also one that targeted a concert back in august, and which was also prevented.

 

[KingSnake]

Because you moved the goalposts. Not one person said or implied anything near "everything is perfect".

How did I move the goalposts? Answering to different excuses (which were not facts, but hypothesis anyhow) is not moving the goalpost. The main question is still the same: were the French and Belgium authorities efficient in defending against this threat when 3 attacks happened in less than a year? Notice that I didn't even make it as a definitive statement, but rather as a question mark about their efficiency.

 

[Joni]

A lot of police sirens at the moment.

 

[azyless]

I think so. Source is the germen newspaper FAZ. They are reliable

All I've seen is this :

The official said Mostefai entered Turkey in 2013 and there is no record of him leaving the country.
On 10 October 2014, Turkey received an information request regarding four terror suspects from the French authorities, but Mostefai was not among them.
During an investigation, the Turkish authorities identified Mostefai and notified their French counterparts twice – in December 2014 and June 2015 – the official said.

Which doesn't say much. For all we know they just said "hey that guy might have gone out of Turkey at some point", and well, that's not a crime. You can't arrest everyone "suspected" of having ties with terrorism (in France that's several thousands of people btw). You need a valid enough reason to burst through people's doors, which is why there are hundreds of raids going on right now with the state of emergency.
I'm not saying our government is without fault but this armchair counter-terrorism is ridiculous.

 

[LNBL]

I thought this was a strong cartoon against people that call for refusing all refugees

 

[jonno394]

I thought this was a strong cartoon against people that call for refusing all refugees

I wouldn't say refuse access to all refugees, but proper screening definitely needs to be in place, proper processing otherwise you can change that cartoon to feature one of the family members holding a knife or bomb and that will be another alternative way one can view it all, especially as one of the accused in Paris was said to have been rescued as an asylum seeker in an overturned lifeboat

If these people want asylum then they can have it, but only when procedures are followed, and this unfortunately means asylum camps, long waits among other things, but then, who funds these camps? Who enforces law in these places?

 

[Osahi]

Action in Molenbeek is over, according to Belgian Press. Police entered the building, but they didn't find the suspect

EDIT: bomb alert is over too. They took the car apart and didn't find anything. The owner of the vehicle is in for a rough return I guess

 

[NEO0MJ]

Define 'ignored'.

Just that they were given a warning by two countries of an imminent attack but they didn't seem to have upped security, unless they wanted to keep their measures discreet to avoid alarming the suspects.

 

[marrec]

I wouldn't say refuse access to all refugees, but proper screening definitely needs to be in place, proper processing otherwise you can change that cartoon to feature one of the family members holding a knife or bomb and that will be another alternative way one can view it all, especially as one of the accused in Paris was said to have been rescued as an asylum seeker in an overturned lifeboat

If these people want asylum then they can have it, but only when procedures are followed, and this unfortunately means asylum camps, long waits among other things, but then, who funds these camps? Who enforces law in these places?

Proper screening and processing takes time and in that time we either shove them into dangerous refugee camps or send them back to their home states where they are in danger. We need to be spending more on getting safer camps set up and speeding up the processing.

 

[jonno394]

Proper screening and processing takes time and in that time we either shove them into dangerous refugee camps or send them back to their home states where they are in danger. We need to be spending more on getting safer camps set up and speeding up the processing.

Who are "we"? The country where the camp is, the EU as a whole, every non-third world/war torn country?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I wouldn't say refuse access to all refugees, but proper screening definitely needs to be in place, proper processing otherwise you can change that cartoon to feature one of the family members holding a knife or bomb and that will be another alternative way one can view it all, especially as one of the accused in Paris was said to have been rescued as an asylum seeker in an overturned lifeboat

If these people want asylum then they can have it, but only when procedures are followed, and this unfortunately means asylum camps, long waits among other things, but then, who funds these camps? Who enforces law in these places?

Wasn't it a fake passport? Cases like this one, at least, should be easy to screen. I don't doubt that there are Syrian terrorists who may have genuine passports, however.

 

[Kenshin001]

I thought this was a strong cartoon against people that call for refusing all refugees

It's a dumb cartoon. They can settle in Turkey or the Gulf states. I've yet to see any of the Gulf states openly invite refugees to their countries. Saudi Arabia has thousands of air conditioned tents from the Hajj that refugees could use.

 

[lenos16]

Which will have to be carefully done... I'm all for bypassing some citizen rights during a state of emergency, which may last several years if necessary, but that shouldn't become the default law for the future.
It's actually a good thing that you can't enter and search any house at any time without a solid reason. I wouldn't be thrilled by a European "patriot act" set in stone.

Yeah, ideally it will be down carefully, but I am pessimistic enough to see that politicians will use this opportunity to implement the european version of the Patriot Act.

 

[marrec]

Who are "we"? The country where the camp is, the EU as a whole, every non-third world/war torn country?

All three. Should be on the world community as a whole to try and alleviate the damage from this disaster.

 

[CCS]

All three. Should be on the world community as a whole to try and alleviate the damage from this disaster.

The US, Gulf States, Russia, China need to help us certainly. The last few months have proven that Europe is struggling to handle this crisis on its own, but no-one seems willing to actually provide help.

 

[jonno394]

Wasn't it a fake passport? Cases like this one, at least, should be easy to screen. I don't doubt that there are Syrian terrorists who may have genuine passports, however.

If they have proper passports then it will require due diligence to take place, and various intelligence agencies and CTU will have to share information among each other to limit the amount of dangerous individuals passing through.This will only work if secure and decent camps are set up and asylum seekers accept the fact they have to stay in them for however long it takes for the process to take place.

People pointing out that these camps are and will be dangerous for people, surely it shows that there are far too many people in these camps who shouldn't be making their way in to Europe? If they're committing crimes in the camps, they'll just keep on doing it when they get out. We don't want these people filtering in to our continent/countries.

 

[marrec]

The US, Gulf States, Russia, China need to help us certainly. The last few months have proven that Europe is struggling to handle this crisis on its own, but no-one seems willing to actually provide help.

Turkey is struggling as well, they've actually taken the majority of refugees in. Would rather see money from drone strikes redirected to handling the humanitarian crisis, of course it's not that easy.

 

[CCS]

Turkey is struggling as well, they've actually taken the majority of refugees in. Would rather see money from drone strikes redirected to handling the humanitarian crisis, of course it's not that easy.

I'm not disputing that, more agreeing that the world needs to to try and help. One thing I don't see mentioned a lot which could turn into is a crisis is that hosting refugees in temporary, thrown-together camps in northern Europe is going to lead to a lot of dead refugees over the winter unless something is done, but not enough is being done to address this.

 

[marrec]

I'm not disputing that, more agreeing that the world needs to to try and help. One thing I don't see mentioned a lot which could turn into is a crisis is that hosting refugees in temporary, thrown-together camps in northern Europe is going to lead to a lot of dead refugees over the winter unless something is done, but not enough is being done to address this.

We've already seen a lot of fires started because of heater installation in some of these camps and it's only going to get worse as the weather gets worse. Sad situation.

 

[CCS]

We've already seen a lot of fires started because of heater installation in some of these camps and it's only going to get worse as the weather gets worse. Sad situation.

I think a lot of people in America don't realise what the European climate is like. Most of Europe is north of Seattle, it gets very cold in winter here. For example, while Germany taking 1.5 million refugees is commendable in principle, I doubt they have suitable winter accommodation for 1.5 million people.

It's part of the reason I mention the Gulf States, at least as a temporary solution. No one's going to freeze to death in Saudi.

 

[Tugatrix]

It's a dumb cartoon. They can settle in Turkey or the Gulf states. I've yet to see any of the Gulf states openly invite refugees to their countries. Saudi Arabia has thousands of air conditioned tents from the Hajj that refugees could use.

You are clearly oblivious to the dichotomy of Sunnis and Shia, or else you would thought better before making this post

 

[DrM]

These motherfuckers surely succeeded in inflicting terror throughout Europe. I was planning a 3 day vacation in Vienna with my wife in the month of december, now we are having second thoughts. I can't believe it has come to this in our beautiful countries.

Well, I am going to Vienna on Friday to see a concert :|

 

[RangerX]

It's a dumb cartoon. They can settle in Turkey or the Gulf states. I've yet to see any of the Gulf states openly invite refugees to their countries. Saudi Arabia has thousands of air conditioned tents from the Hajj that refugees could use.

The gulf states are hardly bastions of democracy and tolerance. They are not going to let them in. Thats not the refugees fault. We can't keep claiming we are open, tolerant, liberal democracies and refuse people who are fleeing death and destruction. Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are the elephants in the room. Our governments in Europe keep selling them arms when these countries, especially Saudi Arabia, are the origin of the this vile strain of Islam. We have to re-evaluate our relationship with these places.

 

[Harmen]

I wouldn't say refuse access to all refugees, but proper screening definitely needs to be in place, proper processing otherwise you can change that cartoon to feature one of the family members holding a knife or bomb and that will be another alternative way one can view it all, especially as one of the accused in Paris was said to have been rescued as an asylum seeker in an overturned lifeboat

If these people want asylum then they can have it, but only when procedures are followed, and this unfortunately means asylum camps, long waits among other things, but then, who funds these camps? Who enforces law in these places?

If you think they just dump the people here and be done with it, you'd be wrong. At least, in the Netherlands I know they register all refugees and do controls.

I volunteered as a first aider (Red Cross) in one of the locations and talked to all kinds of people involved, including many refugees themselves. The dutch authorities are aware that some criminals that are persecuted in their own countries also flee along and are definitely looking into it. It is difficult and takes time, but there are people registering and checking people for all sorts of things. If there is reason to believe a person forms a threat to someone, they really are not ignoring that.

Also, in the situation I have witnessed, most refugees hardly have any privacy, resources, or even certainty about their location. A lot of them are transported between locations, waiting to get registered before we grant them asylum. Even in the case there is a refugee with ill intend, it would be extremely hard for that person to form a threat to surrounding population.

 

[CCS]

From BBC live text: Man 'held in Serbia with same passport as bomber'

Serbian police have detained a migrant with a Syrian passport bearing the same details as one found on one of the bombers, according to the Serbian newspaper Blic.

"A document with the same name and same data, but with the photograph of another man, was found on Saturday on another migrant in the [reception] centre in Presevo and that person was held for questioning," the paper reported, without giving a source.

"It is believed that these two men were not linked. However, the case will be examined because it is certain that both of them have bought fake Syrian passports at different times from the same counterfeiter in Turkey."

 

[MikeDown]

I thought this was a strong cartoon against people that call for refusing all refugees

Over simplifies the issue, most people aren't calling for closed boarders. We need processing so we can prevent further terrorists from getting into the countries in question and further more it gives time for the current generation to assimilate. Also the Balkans, as well as other gulf states wouldn't be a bad choice for settling.

 

[Timbuktu]

From BBC live text: Man 'held in Serbia with same passport as bomber'

It felt too convenient for a bomber to have his passport on him and I have to ask if it could be a deliberate attempt to divert some anger onto the refugees crisis to make things even more messed up.

 

[Sölf]

Not sure if that was already posted. Remember the firecrackers which caused false alarm?

Looks like it was 4chan.

 

[CCS]

It felt too convenient for a bomber to have his passport on him and I have to ask if it could be a deliberate attempt to divert some anger onto the refugees crisis to make things even more messed up.

I doubt it. I think it's simply what the quote suggests, that they both got their passports from the same forger.

 

[MikeDown]

Not sure if that was already posted. Remember the firecrackers which caused false alarm?

Looks like it was 4chan.

charge him for domestic terrorism

 

[DrM]

From BBC live text: Man 'held in Serbia with same passport as bomber'

Makers of fake Syrian passports are getting a bit sloppy. Well, it would be better said 'industry'

 

[Lender]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-suspected-mastermind-of-paris-terror-attacks

So proud of my country. *sigh*

 

[Kenshin001]

You are clearly oblivious to the dichotomy of Sunnis and Shia, or else you would thought better before making this post

What are you talking about? Most of the refugees are Sunni. Turkey and the Gulf states are Sunni.

 

[azyless]

It felt too convenient for a bomber to have his passport on him and I have to ask if it could be a deliberate attempt to divert some anger onto the refugees crisis to make things even more messed up.

The media has been reporting that the bomber's fingerprints matched the ones on the passport, so I doubt it. (source, in french sorry, but I imagine it's on english sites as well)

 

[lenos16]

From BBC live text: Man 'held in Serbia with same passport as bomber'

They probably all got their fake passports from Turkey before coming to Europe as a refugee. This is not surprising at all. There are large amounts of immigrants who came along with the Syrian refugees, the EU just doesn't have the capacity to process them or any kind of plan to turn away those who have discarded their papers.

 

[Gonzalez]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-suspected-mastermind-of-paris-terror-attacks

So proud of my country. *sigh*

Abdelhamid Abaaoud looks like a long lost Briscoe brother.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Not sure if that was already posted. Remember the firecrackers which caused false alarm?

Looks like it was 4chan.

The Interior Ministry says it was a street lamp that broke, not firecrackers. Let's just ignore those 4chan attention-seeking little shits who probably photoshopped this pic and/or lied.

 

[Kinyou]

From BBC live text: Man 'held in Serbia with same passport as bomber'

If that's the case then I guess there's a possibility that the passport that was registered in Greece also belonged to a completely different person.

 

[chrislowe]

Not sure if that was already posted. Remember the firecrackers which caused false alarm?

Looks like it was 4chan.

That was the most childish ******** ever. He should be jailed.

 

[Arkeband]

Not sure if that was already posted. Remember the firecrackers which caused false alarm?

Looks like it was 4chan.

Never take 4chan posts at face value.

 

[CCS]

If that's the case then I guess there's a possibility that the passport that was registered in Greece also belonged to a completely different person.

True, but there's little reason to have a fake Syrian passport unless you want to pose as a Syrian refugee.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

True, but there's little reason to have a fake Syrian passport unless you want to pose as a Syrian refugee.

That's what I thought. They want to stoke the fires of European citizens and the refugees.

 

[Palette Swap]

From BBC live text: Man 'held in Serbia with same passport as bomber'

This is exactly why dumb shit like CNN should never be considered a reliable source.
They had an article posted here several times yesterday claiming the bomber was a Syrian refugee, whereas reporting the facts would have been to report that a Syrian passport had been found near one of the bombers.
It could still turn out the guy was Syrian and went through a refugee route, mind you, but this is an unknown quantity right now.

 

[Frustrated_me]

It's a dumb cartoon. They can settle in Turkey or the Gulf states. I've yet to see any of the Gulf states openly invite refugees to their countries. Saudi Arabia has thousands of air conditioned tents from the Hajj that refugees could use.

Jesus Christ this comment, UGH.

You do realize that Turkey already houses roughly 3 million refugees right? Europe has turned a blind eye to this region for decades, it's the time to do the right thing and help these people out as much as possible. Stabilizing the ME is the solution, not destabilizing it.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Jesus Christ this comment, UGH.

You do realize that Turkey already houses roughly 3 million refugees right? Europe has turned a blind eye to this region for decades, it's the time to do the right thing and help these people out as much as possible. Stabilizing the ME is the solution, not destabilizing it.

I'd love to see what a stabilised ME looks like and how it would come about. Would need a complete redraw of the borders.

 

[chadskin]

An Algerian asylum seeker has been arrested in Germany after allegedly warning fellow migrants last week of an imminent attack in Paris, a spokesman for the prosecutor has said.

The Associated Press reports that the unidentified 39-year-old man was detained at a refugee shelter in the western German town of Arnsberg, after two Syrian men contacted police on Saturday.

According to Werner Wolff, a spokesman for the Arnsberg prosecutors office, the witnesses were told by the man that Paris would be subjected to "fear and terror".

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-34825270

 

[CCS]

This is exactly why dumb shit like CNN should never be considered a reliable source.
They had an article posted here several times yesterday claiming the bomber was a Syrian refugee, whereas reporting the facts would have been to report that a Syrian passport had been found near one of the bombers.
It could still turn out the guy was Syrian and went through a refugee route, mind you, but this is an unknown quantity right now.

I mean, it still suggests that he posed as one, so in the end it doesn't really make much of a difference.

 

[eizarus]

So this happened:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/...-make-him-seem?utm_term=.vcALGXE8p#.qloYmgDB0
(sorry buzzfeed link).

A critic against gamergate had his picture photoshopped and released to the media to make him appear to be one of the attackers.

Of all the times when people should just shut the fuck up and honour the deceased.... smh

 

[azyless]

Repeating myself but he apparently did come with the refugees, not everything is a conspiracy.

French prosecutors said one of the men who blew himself up at the Stade de France had a Syrian passport bearing the name Ahmad al-Mohammad.
They said they had established (via fingerprint matching) that the bomber had come to Europe with migrants via the Greek island of Leros in October, but not whether the passport was genuine.

Source : BBC