Patrick Kane Accusers Attorney: Rape Kit Evidence Tampered with (Up: Faked)

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Just seems fishy to me that the DNA stuff leaks and then the next week the bag is allegedly tampered with. And it doesn't make much sense to put it where it was found.

The police even say everything is accounted for.

This case just keeps on getting more and more out there.
 
Re: aiming for impartiality

We're not a fucking court of law. Asking people to be fair and presenting convincing arguments for it is one thing. Telling them "innocent before guilty" is simply going to make them want to be stronger set in their non-impartiality because you're coming off as really annoying.

Informal discussions need not meet the same rigor as legal ruling because we can't arrest anybody for doing it. You might be worried about mob justice and social rejection, but see paragraph above.

So use some sense. If you want people to be impartial, convince them to be so, don't tell them what they're saying isn't allowed. People follow principles, but people break rules.
 
silkysmooth said:
Just seems fishy to me that the DNA stuff leaks and then the next week the bag is allegedly tampered with. And it doesn't make much sense to put it where it was found.

The police even say everything is accounted for.

This case just keeps on getting more and more out there.
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The police could very well have everything accounted for if they have the wrong bag.

If that's the real bag that showed up, it could've been swapped somewhere from the hospital to the police department.
 
As a Blackhawks fan, Kane needs to be suspended immediately. He should have never been allowed to attend training camp, sends all the wrong signals.
 
He hasn't been charged and he hasn't been arrested. If they suspend him the NHLPA is going to be all over them. And if it turns out he didn't do it? They just threw one of their more popular players to the wolves for nothing.

There will be plenty of time to punish Patrick Kane if he's guilty.
 
msdstc said:
You can just punish people for accusations.
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They can, actually. Specific language in the NHL CBA that allows them do it. It actually allows both the Blackhawks and the NHL an independent chance to suspend him.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a punishment, either. More like a "we don't want you distracting from the game until this is over" situation.
 
Abstruse Moose said:
He hasn't been charged with anything. That might not mean anything to you, but it's an extremely critical factor.
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In this specific case, it's a completely irrelevant factor.

You don't need to be charged to be suspended. Teams and the league both have the power to do so if the player is under investigation for a crime.
 
Sheroking said:
In this specific case, it's a completely irrelevant factor.

You don't need to be charged to be suspended. Teams and the league both have the power to do so if the player is under investigation for a crime.
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Imagine the implication of this was allowed in the context of sports.

Games could be thrown by having accusations against key players then the accuser withdrawing the complaint afterwards.

If he was charged then that is a very different situation. if he is guilty then he deserves to fry
 
msdstc said:
You can just punish people for accusations.
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You can punish them for exercising bad judgement. Regardless of whether or he's guilty of rape, he's guilty of that. Plus, its not so much a punishment as it is a reflection of it being inappropriate for the team to go on as usual when someone is facing those kind of allegations.
 
Abstruse Moose said:
Let me try an example to sum up the problem I'm having with your stance. Let's say you go over to the home of a coworker to hang out. The evening ends and you go home.

The next morning you awake to people telling you that your coworker is saying you assaulted them last night. The police haven't charged you. There is nothing different about your legal status than it was yesterday. The alleged victim has presented little to no evidence of your guilt for 6 weeks.

Are you trying to say that you would have no problem with your employer suspending you from working without pay. Are you trying to suggest that athletes should be held to different standards than non athletes?
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I want to focus on the bolded for a second. There's no way the victim hasn't presented evidence. He wouldn't be about to go in front of a grand jury if there wasn't any evidence presented over the past 6 weeks. And even besides that, I can almost guarantee that the most damning evidence that they'll have will be things that were gathered the first night it happened (i.e. pictures and statements from the victim from that night). The reason you take your time with cases like this is because you have to make sure that everything you do is by the book and double/triple checked, because the high priced attorney on the other side of the courtroom is going to blast you if it isn't.
 
hodayathink said:
I want to focus on the bolded for a second. There's no way the victim hasn't presented evidence. He wouldn't be about to go in front of a grand jury if there wasn't any evidence presented over the past 6 weeks. And even besides that, I can almost guarantee that the most damning evidence that they'll have will be things that were gathered the first night it happened (i.e. pictures and statements from the victim from that night). The reason you take your time with cases like this is because you have to make sure that everything you do is by the book and double/triple checked, because the high priced attorney on the other side of the courtroom is going to blast you if it isn't.
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Actually, in the state of New York, as long as the accuser signs sworn, written statement accusing the individual of a felony, it will go to a grand jury.
 
Polari said:
Because he's under investigation for rape? Duh.

If cleared he can rejoin the team.
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I'm accusing you of assault. No evidence, no police report, nothing has happened. Tell your employer you have been accused of a crime and you should be suspended until it finishes.

You don't get to do your job, and you don't get paid.

That's totally fair for you right?

No? Duh.

Also, you made the wrong choice, imo, of posting on the internet. That's bad judgement. So you should be suspended even longer for that.
 
zychi said:
I'm accusing you of assault. No evidence, no police report, nothing has happened. Tell your employer you have been accused of a crime and you should be suspended until it finishes.

You don't get to do your job, and you don't get paid.

That's totally fair for you right?

No? Duh.

Also, you made the wrong choice, imo, of posting on the internet. That's bad judgement. So you should be suspended even longer for that.
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If I was accused of rape I would be suspended from my position until the investigation was completed. 100%.

No-one said anything about not getting paid.
 
Dunlop said:
Imagine the implication of this was allowed in the context of sports.

Games could be thrown by having accusations against key players then the accuser withdrawing the complaint afterwards.

If he was charged then that is a very different situation. if he is guilty then he deserves to fry
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IIRC - this actually used to happen in the early 1900s in key college games - during the Prohibition era particularly. I'm actually sort of waiting it to happen again in the NFL to be honest.
 
Just FYI: The name and multiple pictures of the alleged victim are floating around social media now. I know this goes without saying, but DO NOT retweet or repost any information you see.
 
zychi said:
I'm accusing you of assault. No evidence, no police report, nothing has happened. Tell your employer you have been accused of a crime and you should be suspended until it finishes.

You don't get to do your job, and you don't get paid.

That's totally fair for you right?

No? Duh.

Also, you made the wrong choice, imo, of posting on the internet. That's bad judgement. So you should be suspended even longer for that.
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What's wrong with you?

If reality were actually like this, this would happen all the time to take people down. But it doesn't. You're just paranoid about hypotheticals.

Instead, all we have in reality are people taking accusations seriously like human adults.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
What's wrong with you?

If reality were actually like this, this would happen all the time to take people down. But it doesn't. You're just paranoid about hypotheticals.

Instead, all we have in reality are people taking accusations seriously like human adults.
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Presumption of innocence is fundamental to judicial systems within civilised societies and is a basic tenet in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

We are entitled to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and that precludes punishment before guilt can be established - regardless of how heinous the crime the accused stands accused for.
 
Frog-fu said:
Presumption of innocence is fundamental to judicial systems within civilised societies and is a basic tenet in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

We are entitled to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and that precludes punishment before guilt can be established - regardless of how heinous the crime the accused stands accused for.
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Yep, that's how a court works.

But not how private business and/or public opinion works.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
What's wrong with you?

If reality were actually like this, this would happen all the time to take people down. But it doesn't. You're just paranoid about hypotheticals.

Instead, all we have in reality are people taking accusations seriously like human adults.
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You really should read the context of the conversation.

He's saying Kane should be suspended for an accusation, no charges. My point was no one gets suspended for accusations, if they did, the world would be even more fucked up. He just wants Kane suspended because he's rich and plays a professional sport.

Now if Kane is actually charged, then he should absolutely be suspended. An accusation is not enough to suspend someone from their job.
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
Yep, that's how a court works.

But not how private business and/or public opinion works.
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Fortunately public opinion don't determine verdicts, though they do have a certain degree of influence.

I would think most countries have laws that protect employees from being fired by private businesses for being accused of a crime, though of course that doesn't mean they can't be suspended or put on administrative leave.

They shouldn't, but it does happen often, especially when good will is essential to the business.
 
I am a huge Blackhawks fan and a Patrick Kane fan (on the ice at least). I like how the Hawks are currently playing this out. If he is charged then I think the Hawks should suspend him to deal with his legal matters. Otherwise just wait. He hasn't even been arrested for this, only questioned.
 
zychi said:
You really should read the context of the conversation.

He's saying Kane should be suspended for an accusation, no charges. My point was no one gets suspended for accusations, if they did, the world would be even more fucked up. He just wants Kane suspended because he's rich and plays a professional sport.

Now if Kane is actually charged, then he should absolutely be suspended. An accusation is not enough to suspend someone from their job.
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This happens all the time, dude. And this is also what I meant by you being paranoid about hypotheticals.

No one wants to work with someone going through some serious life shit. I think you're just seeing "suspension" in such a negative, personal light that you're not seeing that it's for the best for everyone, from the player involved to the rest of his team to the rest of the league.
 
The accuser's lawyer is stepping away, because of fabrications. He doesn't trust the story.

He does however say it is the real bag. He is stepping away because of an ethical obligation due to the means by he received the bag.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
This happens all the time, dude. And this is also what I meant by you being paranoid about hypotheticals.

No one wants to work with someone going through some serious life shit. I think you're just seeing "suspension" in such a negative, personal light that you're not seeing that it's for the best for everyone, from the player involved to the rest of his team to the rest of the league.
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If "no one wants to work with someone going through some serious life shit" they would have suspended him, but that's clearly not the case. If they suspend him now and no charges are filed then the Blackhawks have unnecessarily hurt themselves as a team. If they don't suspend him and there are charges filed then he'll gets suspended in 2-3 months anyway, and the only people who are "hurt" are internet people who want to see him punished preemptively.

JABEE said:
The accuser's lawyer is stepping away, because of fabrications. He doesn't trust the story.
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Holy fucknuts.
 
Well, umm.

Now that's a twist.

But the question still exists.. that's a legitimate bag... how did it come to their possession?
 
I thought the DNA results failed to show a link with Kane?

Getting a charge would seem extremely hard if its he said she said. Maybe the accuser's lawyer noticed that.
 
HariKari said:
That was... quick?
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He seriously questioned the integrity of the entire department. They have to get out ahead of this right now before they're seen as a laughingstock.

JABEE said:
The accuser's lawyer is stepping away, because of fabrications. He doesn't trust the story.

He does however say it is the real bag. He is stepping away because of an ethical obligation due to the means by he received the bag.
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I guess they found out who put the bag there, then. And the answer wasn't one he liked.
 
hodayathink said:
He seriously questioned the integrity of the entire department. They have to get out ahead of this right now before they're seen as a laughingstock.



I guess they found out who put the bag there, then. And the answer wasn't one he liked.
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Yup. That's what I gather from it. If the lawyer is stepping away it's probably someone close to the accuser
 
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