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PC Gamer: FromSoftware made Elden Ring and Armored Core 6 with a staff of just 300 developers

Ronin_7

Member
Don't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.

High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse

But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece 👍
 

GrayChild

Member
Don't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.

High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse

But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece 👍

Yeah, because crunching does not exist elsewhere.
 
Is Elden Ring hard compared to the older Dark Souls titles? Never played any of From Software titles.

The difficulty is having patience to stand back and read enemy moves and having the patience to not run around every corner. So if you have patience and don't have the reaction speed of a slug, you will be fine.
 
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Yes, when I play a game what's really REALLY important is the levels of Polish and Optimization.
Fuck story and gameplay!
Gimme polish and optimization!
in those... performance is included. imagine a From Software game with pristine Image Quality, Smooth performance and graphics that make Justice to the art direction. all of the above take more time, more devs and more money.

Outside Elden Ring, from software games have been relative niche and basically its own genere.

if their games are made in their entirety by 200-300 in-house devs (without outsourcing) is impressive. otherwise there is really nothing special.
 
Don't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.

High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse

But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece 👍
They know what they’re getting into. Maybe they want to be that dedicated?
 

SkylineRKR

Member
First of all 300 sounds like quite a lot to me. Perhaps its small when compared to Ubisoft etc.

Elden Ring is one of the best games I have played but I don't think you can't compare this to AAA from those studios. Elden Ring is technically ofcourse far worse, and it doesn't rely on cutscenes, countless hours of VA, mocap and all the bells and whistles those games have. Elden Ring is in my opinion far better than, say Assassins Creed or Horizon just because it doesn't feature all that bloated shit, notifications, forced walking, scripted set pieces, endless dialogues etc.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
HFW and GOWR feels like completely different games and every souls game like reskins of each other. See how it works?
Santa Monica Studio (400 devs):
2013 - God of War Ascension
2018 - God of War
2022 - God of War Ragnarok (Spear DLC for GoW)

Guerilla Games (360 devs):
2013 - Killzone Shadow Fall
2017 - Horizon Zero Dawn
2022 - Horizon Forbidden West (glider DLC for HZD)

FromSoftware (300 devs)
2013 - Armored Core Verdict Day
2014 - Dark Souls 2 (not DLC to previous AC game)
2015 - Bloodborne (not DLC to DS2)
2016 - Dark Souls 3 (not DLC to Bloodborne)
2018 - Déraciné (not DLC to DS3)
2019 - Sekiro (not DLC to Déraciné)
2022 - Elden Ring (not DLC to Sekiro)
2023 - Armored Core 6 (not DLC to Elden Ring)

FromSoftware has a much better output and chronological variety of games.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Would like to know average working hours / week, and how many contractors are used.
For every japanese salaryman dev working 100h/week you would get 2,2 people in Europe.
 

Xtib81

Member
That's similar to how many developers made Forbidden west and Tlou2. There are hundreds of additional contractors though.
I don't want to jump on FS, but there are barely no cutscenes, lots of copied assets etc.. so it doesn't take as long as AAA cinematic games.
 
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Ar¢tos

Member
Would like to know average working hours / week, and how many contractors are used.
For every japanese salaryman dev working 100h/week you would get 2,2 people in Europe.
You should worry more with the amount of contractors used by western devs. After watching the credits of Uncharted 4 I got the impression that the entire game was made by Chinese sweat shops and ND only directed it!
 

Hudo

Member
You should worry more with the amount of contractors used by western devs. After watching the credits of Uncharted 4 I got the impression that the entire game was made by Chinese sweat shops and ND only directed it!
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
400 is quite large?

Insomniac has around that number of devs and theyve been releasing games like clockwork almost makes you wonder if them devs ever actually sleep.
Granted they have a big support network and the ICE team to help them so might not be apples to apples.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
300 devs working on a single game is probably more than every sony studio with 500 devs spreaded into 2-3+ projects, just saying...

That is not a small number except if you compare it with ubilol and rockstar.
 

Fabieter

Member
I know everyone is importent to make a game but a good mangement is key to be as effective as from Software.
 
Santa Monica Studio (400 devs):
2013 - God of War Ascension
2018 - God of War
2022 - God of War Ragnarok (Spear DLC for GoW)

Guerilla Games (360 devs):
2013 - Killzone Shadow Fall
2017 - Horizon Zero Dawn
2022 - Horizon Forbidden West (glider DLC for HZD)

FromSoftware (300 devs)
2013 - Armored Core Verdict Day
2014 - Dark Souls 2 (not DLC to previous AC game)
2015 - Bloodborne (not DLC to DS2)
2016 - Dark Souls 3 (not DLC to Bloodborne)
2018 - Déraciné (not DLC to DS3)
2019 - Sekiro (not DLC to Déraciné)
2022 - Elden Ring (not DLC to Sekiro)
2023 - Armored Core 6 (not DLC to Elden Ring)

FromSoftware has a much better output and chronological variety of games.
Average Horizon npc dialogue



Average Elden ring npc dialogue



I wonder which one took more resources 🤔
 

Harlock

Member
West need to go back to the good days of male, straight, working hard devs. Or AAA games will always took 7 years and still incomplete at release.
 

Thief1987

Member
FromSoftware (300 devs)
2013 - Armored Core Verdict Day(bargain bin 5/10 series no one care about)
2014 - Dark Souls 2 (garbage reskin of DS)
2015 - Bloodborne (reskin of DS bar shields)
2016 - Dark Souls 3 (compilation of DS1 and DS2 in a single package)
2018 - Déraciné (2 hours long 6/10 walking simulator)
2019 - Sekiro (just trash)
2022 - Elden Ring(openworld reskin of DS)
2023 - Armored Core 6 (another entry in the bargain bin 5/10 series no one care about)

Nothing impressive.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Member
"Just" ?

That's actually a lot of people considering the size of the game.
Skyrim was made with a team of ~100 people, it's already incredible, and Fallout 3, even less, the team was smaller like ~80 , you hear that ?! 80 ! THAT is impressive.
Remind that games like Assassin's Creed are mostly made by ~1000 team.
 
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knguyen

Member
That what a team can do when they have no blue hair and tight yoga pant bitching about people use wrong pronounce on him or make him work on Monday-Thursday.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Santa Monica Studio (400 devs):
2013 - God of War Ascension
2018 - God of War
2022 - God of War Ragnarok (Spear DLC for GoW)

Guerilla Games (360 devs):
2013 - Killzone Shadow Fall
2017 - Horizon Zero Dawn
2022 - Horizon Forbidden West (glider DLC for HZD)

FromSoftware (300 devs)
2013 - Armored Core Verdict Day
2014 - Dark Souls 2 (not DLC to previous AC game)
2015 - Bloodborne (not DLC to DS2)
2016 - Dark Souls 3 (not DLC to Bloodborne)
2018 - Déraciné (not DLC to DS3)
2019 - Sekiro (not DLC to Déraciné)
2022 - Elden Ring (not DLC to Sekiro)
2023 - Armored Core 6 (not DLC to Elden Ring)

FromSoftware has a much better output and chronological variety of games.
Insomniac:
giphy.webp
 

Kenneth Haight

Gold Member
Don't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.

High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse

But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece 👍
Is this a Japanese capitalist activist site 😂

propaganda capitalism GIF
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I read the same fawning over Insomniac here as well. There are no magic developers. There are no developers that just use unusual skill to make games every 2 years with less people.

It means the games are highly iterative and using a ton from previous games. FS are good, but they are putting out mostly the same game repeatedly with large elements of combat, enemy AI and assets reused over and over.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
It's the right call - I'd rather have 10 games from a developer I love over the course of a decade than 1-2. FromSoft games might look a generation behind, but they always deliver on the stuff that matters to their fans.

After FFVII-R, I realised I was fed up with waiting 5-6 years for games that were visually fantastic but somehow far less substantial than their predecessors; games that were a chore to replay thanks to all the forced walking sections, long-ass loading screens and repetitive busywork padding out the playtime; games that traded mechanical depth and player autonomy for one-time spectacle and cinematic sheen.

Going forward, I'll happily take games that look like Sekiro / Elden Ring, that run at solid 1440p/60 and use the leftover development time and hardware power for gameplay variety and depth.
 
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SkylineRKR

Member
It's the right call - I'd rather have 10 games from a developer I love over the course of a decade than 1-2. FromSoft games might look a generation behind, but they always deliver on the stuff that matters to their fans.

After FFVII-R, I realised I was fed up with waiting 5-6 years for games that were visually fantastic but somehow far less substantial than their predecessors; games that were a chore to replay thanks to all the forced walking sections, long-ass loading screens and repetitive busywork padding out the playtime; games that traded mechanical depth and player autonomy for one-time spectacle and cinematic sheen.

Going forward, I'll happily take games that look like Sekiro / Elden Ring, that run at solid 1440p/60 and use the leftover development time and hardware power for gameplay variety and depth.

Yes development needs to reconsider. Ultimately does it matter how a game looks? I know I rather play Yakuza or Elden Ring than Horizon or or FFVII R. All that useless force walking and banter during gameplay. They focus on so many things I don't give a shit about, and then the actual games are very formulaic, hand helding and full of waypoints. I also feel FFXVI kinda suffers from this right now, it has shallow combat and almost non existing build variety, and no challenge on its initial playthrough whatsoever.

With some luck you get 3 FFVII games, which is largely based on an existing game to begin with, in the span of 8-10 years. Without factoring in FFVII R was officially announced in 2015. Thats ridiculous. And the end result is completely linear, even chapter based. Ok, the original Midgar part was completely linear too, but I doubt Rebirth will be as open as the original (and I'm not saying OG FFVII was an open world game or something, but more than these games), probably still chapter based too.

Naughty Dog released 2 Uncharted games on PS4, and one was a smaller game. And TLOU 2. Thats a whopping 3 games during an entire gen. And fairly linear gallery shooting games, though I liked TLOU2.

But FROM's output isn't as much as I think, they also slowed down, probably focused more on what they are best at. PS4 gen (2013-2020) saw 4 games not counting remasters. DS3, BB, Sekiro and Deracine. And MH diary for 3DS.

By next month however they have 2, albeit cross-gen, games out for this generation.
 
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Thief1987

Member
Yes development needs to reconsider. Ultimately does it matter how a game looks? I know I rather play Yakuza or Elden Ring than Horizon or or FFVII R. All that useless force walking and banter during gameplay. They focus on so many things I don't give a shit about, and then the actual games are very formulaic, hand helding and full of waypoints
Because Yakuza doesn't have forced walking and banter during gameplay? Because they are not formulaic and not full of waypoints? You can't even make compelling argument without falling on your face. Weak.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
300 is overkill. You could do it with 50. That’s including artist , story writers, musicians.. ect.
Programming wise you only need around 5.
 

nightmare-slain

Gold Member
Is Elden Ring hard compared to the older Dark Souls titles? Never played any of From Software titles.
Elden Ring is the easiest game from them that I've played. There are a couple boss fights that are difficult but everything else is piss easy. It has me worried about Armored Core. I hope that game offers some challenge and isn't the same dumbed down easy mode kind of game that Elden Ring is.
 

FeralEcho

Member
Didn't Nintendo make both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom with around that same amount of staff?
Who knew you didn't need an AC/DC concert crowd worth of devs and dozens of studios scattered across the world in order to make a masterpiece?

Did you hear that, Ubisoft?
How about you hire better management and maybe your games won't suck 50 shades of dick.
But how would they and EA then get brownie points from the twitter crowd(oops sorry I meant xhitter crowd) for all the extra 700 diversity hires?
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Because Yakuza doesn't have forced walking and banter during gameplay? Because they are not formulaic and not full of waypoints? You can't even make compelling argument without falling on your face. Weak.

You single out Yakuza. Weak.

Yakuza games are more gamey, charming and less lifeless than those shitty ass AAA hand helding games. lots of minigames, fun optional sidequests, more challenging. And I don't think Kiryu or that Judgment guy is constantly rambling to himself. Its just different. Yes they recycle lots of things, but get this, they're good time wasters each time. I'd rather take that rate of output with fun games than maybe 1 Horizon game per generation which are very similar experiences too by the way.

And no they aren't full of waypoints and forced walk scenes, not near the level of typical AAA shit. Why the fuck does FFVII even have waypoints? Its a completely linear game lol.
 
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Thief1987

Member
You single out Yakuza. Weak.

Yakuza games are more gamey, charming and less lifeless than those shitty ass AAA hand helding games. lots of minigames, fun optional sidequests, more challenging.
Charming and lifeless is subjective so argument has zero substance. Lots of the same minigames. Lots of garbage fetch guests. There is nothing challenging in Yakuza games, and after you unlock Tiger Drop they become an absolute joke.
 
Yes development needs to reconsider. Ultimately does it matter how a game looks?
Obviously. We're not spending 500 dollars on new consoles for games to look the same.(God knows how much some spend to upgrade there PCs.

Now should every game try to be the best looking game ever? NO contrary to my previous post I actually like that FROM reuses assets and doesn't waste resources on NPC dialogues etc.

It allows them to focus on other things like enemy variety and huge ambitious level design.

I also appreciate devs like guerrilla to push the envelope on visuals.

It's almost impossible for one dev to do everything.
 

samoilaaa

Member
well yeah but its way harder to make a game like cyberpunk for example that has alot of npcs , alot of buildings that you can enter , alot of dialog , animations

dont get me wrong , elden ring world is big and has many beautiful details but in terms of scope and complexity its nothing compared to games like cyberpunk or RDR 2
 

Naked Lunch

Member
Ikaruga was developed by three people. Just sayin'.

300 is impressive in this day and age, sure - but in context of the history of the medium - nah.
 
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