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[digdug2]

Vindication for Dark Souls 2 defenders as Hidetaka Miyazaki says many of its ideas 'carried the rest of the series'

Summary from Google Gemini: Dark Souls 2 gets vindication from Miyazaki​

The article challenges the negative perception of Dark Souls 2, highlighting its influence on future FromSoftware games and Hidetaka Miyazaki's personal appreciation.

Key points:

• Miyazaki believes Dark Souls 2 was a valuable project, influencing design choices in later games like Sekiro and Elden Ring.
• He credits the game's directors, Tomohiro Shibuya and Yui Tanimura, for bringing fresh ideas and impetus to the series.
• While not directing future projects himself, Miyazaki supports handing directorial control to other developers.
• He acknowledges some regret over his supervisory role in Dark Souls 2, preferring full directorial control.

Overall:

The article suggests a reevaluation of Dark Souls 2 and its role in FromSoftware's evolution, with Miyazaki himself defending its importance and praising its influence. It also hints at a shift towards empowering other directors within the studio.

 

[Varteras]

He's wrong. I'm an authority on this matter. -Someone in this thread at some point

 

[Bartski]

based

 

[gtabro]

It’s great that they’ve learned from it - shows a dedication to the craft. Happy about the other directors and development of From as a company because of it as well. Happy if you liked the game too.

With that being said

Dark Souls 2 as a game is still hot garbage to me and I don’t want to touch it ever again.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

I wrote this while playing Elden Ring, long before Miyazaki made any statements about DS2's influence:

Speaking with a friend who is a fellow Souls vet and we both seem to agree that out of all FROM's games this past decade it feels like Elden Ring inherited the most from Dark Souls 2 DNA, the most disparaged Souls used as a template to reach the peak, rather ironic (DS2 is incredible). Sure the catacombs are a direct inheritance of BB's chalice dungeons and when I'm sneaking through grass preparing for an assassination I'm thinking of Sekiro but the sheer amount of content, variety, build diversity and area design most remind me of DS2. Not to mention Pate, first one I found had me smiling ear-to-ear though I do prefer the old voice.

Anyway, you all carry on, looking forward to the hot takes

Edit: already got one while posting this , Praise the Sun!

 

[tommib]

It was always the best dark souls. Just not as good as demon’s.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I wrote this while playing Elden Ring, long before Miyazaki made any statements about DS2's influence:



Anyway, you all carry on, looking forward to the hot takes

Edit: already got one while posting this , Praise the Sun!

I too, believe that ER was the DS2 they wanted to make.

At the end of the day, DS2 is plagued by the most lackluster bestiary in the series (at least in the vanilla content), most non-realistic geography and level design, and generally feels like the 'least' of the Souls games, but it's STILL a very good game for me.

 

[The artful mincer]

They introduced Power Stance, Enough said

 

[rofif]

Ds2 is my fav. The original. Sotfs made some annoying changes. Not a big fan of its dlc too

 

[Zuzu]

I'm playing through DS2 for the first time now. In the last 6 months or so I've played through DS1, DS3, Bloodborne & Elden Ring all for the first time. DS2 seems good to me and there's things it does better than DS1. While for me overall it's probably not quite as good as the other soulsborne games it's still a very good game imo and much better than 98% of the other games that are released out there.

 

[Bernardougf]

Dont see any vindication whatsoever.... and I like DS2 and rank it above ER

 

[Mr Hyde]

Dark Souls 2 was always the best Souls for me. I played the shit out of it and it was heartbreaking to see the fanbase just completely shit on it (although not surprising given how fucking toxic the Souls-fandom is). Great to see Miyazaki acknowledge DS2 and to see so many influences from it in Elden Ring. It's almost like a spiritual successor of some sort.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Dark Souls 3 definitely doesn’t seem to have learned anything from 2.

 

[Gaiff]

Why do people keep pushing the narrative? The game looks like shit, controls like shit, has shit lore, and is a step back from the original in almost every way. Does it mean it’s completely devoid of qualities? Of course not. It has good elements and the best PvP in the trilogy.

Miyazaki hyping up the work of a coworker is just standard fare among Japanese people who praise the work of others even if they know it’s trash. They almost never put down what others do.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Not sure if "they took elements from Dark Souls 2 but actually made it good" is really a compelling argument.

 

[Shut0wen]

I dont understand the hate for the game, sure the boss designs and things could be better but the enemy placement traps and ambushes are brutal and its hardest game in the franchise yet fans shit on it like its worst game of all time

 

[Clear]

The only real problem with DS2 was it was way too ambitious.

All the gimmicks with light have never been properly revisited and fleshed out all these years on, then there were all the different flavours of themed PVP, the really intricate stuff allowing the player to modify difficulty per area, combined with the fact that it was so large compared to its predecessor must have made it a very difficult project.

If you're familiar with the game you can clearly see in the areas where they were able to properly focus on the content, as opposed to struggling with linking it all together, the quality is as high as anything in the series.

I really wish people would have paid more attention at the time to the things it tries and succeeds at, than its many rough edges.

 

[FunkMiller]

DS2 reached high… and missed a fair bit, but it’s still an amazing game.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Spoken with the formal politeness of a respectful Japanese person. The genius developer also knows basic manners.

If he was speaking truthfully he would have copied things like soul memory and clunky, unresponsive controls into the actual souls games

 

[PanzerCute]

DS2 is great and the most open of Dark Souls games.

That said it was also a downgrade in some parts: aesthetic and level design coherence for instance.

Amazing game nonetheless.

 

[rofif]

The vibe of ds2.

 

[j0hnnix]

Ideas on what not to do. He's right. Miyazaki so smart.

 

[Juza]

I wrote this while playing Elden Ring, long before Miyazaki made any statements about DS2's influence:



Anyway, you all carry on, looking forward to the hot takes

Edit: already got one while posting this , Praise the Sun!

Yui Tanimura, the director of DkS2, was the executive director of Elden Ring, and many names who worked on DkS2 also played a major role in the development of Elden Ring. So, you may have noticed their touch in the game.

For me, the series main theme became more “Epic fantasy” and less “Dark fantasy” post Dark Souls 1. Demon's and Dark Souls 1 have their own dark, isolated atmosphere that no other FromSoft's game has had later on. So they are my FromSoft favorites.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I really liked DS2 on release and played the shit out of it on PS3. I didn't really understand the hate it got at the time, but I also wasn't such a die-hard Dark Souls player either so the comparisons between the two were well past my caring. I just thought it was a dark RPG with cool bosses and awesome art direction and music. The music was so damn good too. Didn't need to be more than that for me.

 

[Tajaz2426]

DS2 is my favorite of the Dark Souls series, as I played them after BloodBorne. Bloodborne and DS2 just have this look and feel I enjoy very much.

 

[tommib]

Dark Souls 3 definitely doesn’t seem to have learned anything from 2.

By far the worst From game from post Demon’s period. Even the atmosphere is just not there. Coming from Bloodborne, DS3was an annoying disappointment.

 

[LordCBH]

I enjoyed Dark Souls 2. Did not like the Scholar of the First Sin remix though.

 

[digdug2]

Why do people keep pushing the narrative? The game looks like shit, controls like shit, has shit lore, and is a step back from the original in almost every way. Does it mean it’s completely devoid of qualities? Of course not. It has good elements and the best PvP in the trilogy.

Miyazaki hyping up the work of a coworker is just standard fare among Japanese people who praise the work of others even if they know it’s trash. They almost never put down what others do.

Here's the deal- it's not my narrative, it's Miyazaki's. If Miyazaki thought that Yui Tanimura's work on Dark Souls 2 was trash, do you actually think that he would have a) made him co-director of Elden Ring and b) fleshed out multiple ideas that started with Dark Souls 2 (the biggest standouts being powerstancing, multiple exploration opportunities from the start, and a queen having her husband eradicate the giants only to betray him after mission completion)?

 

[NuclearDiarrhea]

Nobody started hating on Dark Souls 2 until Mathewmatosis made a video on it. People just parrot the same tired old pretentious talking points he made in the video. Also, many of the flaws DS2 had got carried over to DS3. The only reason DS3 gets a pass is because it's directed by Miyazaki.

 

[Northeastmonk]

The vibe of ds2.

Majula’s theme lives rent free in my mind.

When’s the remastered version coming out? The Switch could handle it.

I am glad I didn’t watch a lot of the critical analysis videos some of you have mentioned.

 

[OGM_Madness]

My first Fromsoftware game was Eternal Ring. And although all the Souls games (including Sekiro, Bloodborne & Elden Ring) share that unique DNA in Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 2 felt like Dark Souls through the lens of the Eternal Ring development team. And it is a great game (despite how ugly, low-poly & jank it is). My big gripe with it is a non-issue that has to do with how annoying getting the platinum got.

 

[tommib]

Nobody started hating on Dark Souls 2 until Mathewmatosis made a video on it. People just parrot the same tired old pretentious talking points he made in the video. Also, many of the flaws DS2 had got carried over to DS3. The only reason DS3 gets a pass is because it's directed by Miyazaki.

DS2 meme hate started with B team accusations because Myazaki was not main director. The Myazaki adoration was starting at the same time. It was alignment of different meme narratives.

Curiously it has a higher meta critic than DS1 and DS3. The sole Dark Souls above 90.

 

[Gaiff]

Nobody started hating on Dark Souls 2 until Mathewmatosis made a video on it. People just parrot the same tired old pretentious talking points he made in the video. Also, many of the flaws DS2 had got carried over to DS3. The only reason DS3 gets a pass is because it's directed by Miyazaki.

Nah, Dark Souls 2 just plays and looks like ass. The controversy started as soon as they destroyed the lighting model they had in the early preview. The actual game looked much worse and the hate began then, with people accusing From of pulling a Ubisoft.

Also, if I remember correctly, they used mocap for the animations of Dark Souls II which might partly explain the different and floatier feel of the combat.

I was initially very enthusiastic about it and couldn't care less it wasn't directed by Miyazaki. The game plays poorly.

 

[rofif]

Nah, Dark Souls 2 just plays and looks like ass. The controversy started as soon as they destroyed the lighting model they had in the early preview. The actual game looked much worse and the hate began then, with people accusing From of pulling a Ubisoft.

I was initially very enthusiastic about it and couldn't care less it wasn't directed by Miyazaki. The game plays poorly.

Graphics tech while not the best, it still got the heart. The areas look great artistically.
Plays poorly is the most ignorant thing you can say about one of best games ever made.

 

[The Skull]

Certainly gets more hate than it deserves but the DLC is fucking class.

 

[Gaiff]

Graphics tech while not the best, it still got the heart. The areas look great artistically.

None of the games are very good graphically but the art in Dark Souls II isn't up to snuff either. You have some gorgeous areas like Mujula, but you also have ugly as hell ones such as the Forest of the Giants or anywhere with a lot of indirect lighting. Mind you, Dark Souls I and III don't always look great either but they're much more consistent and don't have many really ugly areas.

Plays poorly is the most ignorant thing you can say about one of best games ever made.

Nope. The combat is poor. The movements, hit feedback, animations, hitboxes, they're all terrible. Apparently, it's because they used mocap which didn't help this game at all. There are also the weird mechanics tied to adaptability which are some of the worst design decisions I've ever experienced.

 

[Doom85]

Not sure if "they took elements from Dark Souls 2 but actually made it good" is really a compelling argument.

 

[rofif]

None of the games are very good graphically but the art in Dark Souls II isn't up to snuff either. You have some gorgeous areas like Mujula, but you also have ugly as hell ones such as the Forest of the Giants or anywhere with a lot of indirect lighting. Mind you, Dark Souls I and III don't always look great either but they're much more consistent and don't have many really ugly areas.

Nope. The combat is poor. The movements, hit feedback, animations, hitboxes, they're all terrible. Apparently, it's because they used mocap which didn't help this game at all. There are also the weird mechanics tied to adaptability which are some of the worst design decisions I've ever experienced.

Forest of the fallen giants is one of worst looking areas in the game tech wise but I love the atmosphere of it like most of areas in this game.
Biggest diversity and imagination of areas for sure.. maybe only topped by elden ring.

As for your 2nd comment, The 8 directional movement is crap but everything else is top notch. The gameplay is great, combat is great, hitboxes being bad is a well known myth. You get the same phantom hitboxes vids from every souls.
You have some fantastic examples of ds2 hitboxes too


Someone even displayed the hitboxes. It's just as in every souls


Adaptability is a neat idea. You either put 5-8 points in it and never think about it again or ignore it if you play tank build and don't roll. It doesn't matter because in DS2 you level almost 2x as much as in other souls. Plenty of points to go around.
You got bonfire ascetics too to farm more souls and items if needed. Genuinely great quality of life ideas too.

I think all the bad rep is from that one yt vid and then from SOTFS edition of the game which memified the game with more gank squads and traps. vanilla ds2 is a better experience.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Still nowhere near as good as compared to DS1, Demons Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro etc. You can tell he didnt make it.
He’s just saying nice things to make his cousin look good

 

[MiguelItUp]

A great studio will always continue to grow, improve, and learn from all of their previous projects. If things didn't work, find out how and why. If things did, find out how and why, and improve upon them.

I didn't think DS2 was awful, but it was most certainly my least favorite in the series. Why? It's hard to explain, long story short, I think it was just a series of small things that just added up to an experience that just didn't feel impactful to me. The final result was an experience that felt like a slog to get through.

I'm not surprised that From have used previous games as forms of improvement and growth. But it's awesome to have the confirmation.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I liked it DS2 but it didn’t grab me like the first Dark Souls. I still play DS on my Switch to help out chooms with Ornstein & Smough.

Almost ten years since this thread.

Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

NOTE:Comparison videos below show the changes from PS3 version to PS3 version! Figured this was newish news, and people outside the OT deserved to know about it. People playing Dark Souls 2 early have shown that in the current build there are some significant lighting changes which greatly...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Astral Dog]

I didn't liked both Dark Souls 2 and Elden Ring even if i tried to ,the other games are fine, i enjoyed DS3 and Bloodborne the best out of FROM lineup

though there is this awesome part about Dark Souls 2 i can't forget

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

It's the one I actually played through the most.

 

[night13x]

I always enjoyed DS2. Too many wimps who never "got gud" were the ones who bitched about it.

 

[darrylgorn]

He's probably right. But as someone who grew up with the games, I think the atmosphere and level design of the first Dark Souls is what makes it the most revered game of the series.

The combat and gameplay became redundant after that point.

 

[Tomeru]

There are many cool things and ideas in DS2, but its still a shit game.

Evidence:

Every fromsoft souls gdme made after, by not team B - is better.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Played through ds2 recently and it’s utterly fantastic. Doesn’t deserve a lot of the hate. I’d say it’s the game in the trilogy with the greatest variety of builds too. The level design in some places is weird but the scope a variety is fantastic

 

[Punished Miku]

Nah, Dark Souls 2 just plays and looks like ass. The controversy started as soon as they destroyed the lighting model they had in the early preview. The actual game looked much worse and the hate began then

I definitely remember that being true.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Game is great

 

[Buggy Loop]

DS2 is best DS.

It was thrown under the bus by angry "BUT MAH GRAPHICS DOWNGRADED" gamers or some stupid Tier B team bullshit.