They compete for sure. As you have stated yourself they do carry the same games from other publishers. They both want to build a user base which is more important than anything else. This need to get users does benefit consumers because the stores will try to out sale each other to draw people in.
PC Gaming isn't locked in to one store, so why is the hate for Steam competitors?
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
They compete for sure. As you have stated yourself they do carry the same games from other publishers. They both want to build a user base which is more important than anything else. This need to get users does benefit consumers because the stores will try to out sale each other to draw people in.
Baleoce
Member
Out of interest, what cut % does Origin / Steam charge for 3rd party sales?
You really don't see how two online PC game storefronts are competing? The difference in available games just further highlights that competition.
30% is practically the standard. I don't think there's any evidence for Origin, but Valve and CDPR take 30% as per a tweet from Phil Fish.
Edit: Oh, and as further evidence for Steam, see THQ's receipt from CoH 2 sales -- if you scroll down to Attachment B, you'll see "Net Steam Sales" and "Revenue Share". The figure you arrive at after subtracting 30% from the former matches the latter virtually to the cent.
Nabs
Member
Good point. Do you guys remember the launches of Dragon Age 2 SE, Shift 2 and Alice? EA kept pre-orders off Steam so users couldn't get the pre-order bonuses. You were fine if you bought it from any other store, just as long as you were okay with using Origin/EADM. Fun times.
i like competition, what i don't like is exclusivity
about why i tend to favor steam because
-steam and the store has become good
-valve history record
other platforms are lacking (sometimes a lot) in any of those aspects
usually the only two digital platforms i buy games for are steam and gog.
about why i tend to favor steam because
-steam and the store has become good
-valve history record
other platforms are lacking (sometimes a lot) in any of those aspects
usually the only two digital platforms i buy games for are steam and gog.
No hate from me, just high expectations. PC not having a single unified storefront is just an incentive for me to pick the service that offers the most to me as a consumer, which happens to be Steam right now. I'm not opposed to using other clients, but I still prefer Steam when possible because it's served me well in the past and continues to add more features that improve my experience.
SwiftDeath
Member
I just wish all games were available on all stores but obviously publishers would never ever do that with GOG. Such an action I feel would illicit more competition for they'd actually have to offer a compelling service to exist instead of locking games to their service but whatever we all deal how we deal
It's the cucumber and grapes experiment all over again. We're all just monkeys in a cage.
Our time and dollars. Just like any other platform.
No. After one generation you'd have to switch. Lack of backwards compatibility makes the idea of sticking with one service and one platform impossible on consoles.
Garcia
Member
Yes there is, it's called competition and you want it in every market.
Without any competition Steam wouldn't be offering many of the features it currently does.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
The 6-8 months from the Dragon Age 2 pre-order event to the removal of key EA properties from Steam was one giant obvious attempt at deceiving the PC gaming community.
And their spin on the whole DLC matter was hilarious. We want to be able to reach out to our customers! By forcing them to continue to buy Bioware points to buy the DLC for the Bioware game! We fucking hate our customers!
Please explain which features Steam has added due to competition from competing digital distribution platforms.
Competition is good. My problem is with the exclusivity BS.
I'd be perfectly fine with EA offering their games cheaper on Origin than on Steam. I'd buy them on Steam regardless. But they choose to be exclusive to their own service, so I choose to not pay them a single cent.
The only one that really irritates me is Uplay on Steam games. It just baffles me, seriously Steam acts as DRM anyways so why put more shit on top of that. If anything it just makes me less inclined to buy any of Ubisoft's games. I won't use Origin because it's more crap to install on my PC and the vast majority of my library is on Steam already, so EA lost me there as a customer.
GoG is really the only other storefront that actually offers me an incentive to use other than Steam. It doesn't have all the other bullshit programs the publishers want you to use, just install and play which is exactly what I want.
GoG is really the only other storefront that actually offers me an incentive to use other than Steam. It doesn't have all the other bullshit programs the publishers want you to use, just install and play which is exactly what I want.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
As Stallion already said, you really need to elaborate on this point.
What has Steam been competing with? Do we need to posit competition as the motivating force behind Steam's development, or can it be adequately explained by factors internal to Valve? Regardless of what their competitors do, Valve wants to grow.
One could potentially make the case that the Steam overlay was playing catch-up with Xfire in the early days, but that's not a DD platform.
Imperfected
Member
I don't think most PC gamers actually favor Steam. They're fine with Battle.net, wholly proprietary clients (like that used by League of Legends), and services like GoG/GMG. The numbers overwhelmingly speak to that being the case.
No, the only issue is they're specifically opposed to Origin (and to a lesser extent, uPlay), so let's call it what it is and not pretend like it's "all Steam competitors" that are drawing fire.
I can't speak for anyone else, but as for why I don't like Origin:
1. Rather than driving down prices through competition, it actually seems to be serving to artificially inflate them by removing the games on that service from the pool of competing services. You can look at just about any game on Origin and clearly see it's selling for more than it would be on other services. They've gotten slightly better about this - they're no longer selling years-old games at full launch retail price - but it's hard not to think you wouldn't be able to get Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2, or SimCity (2013) for half to a fourth of the prices Origin's asking for them if they were on literally any other distributor.
2. EA has shown very little commitment to "value-added" DRM. This is an issue that people often overlook when talking about digital distribution and "inherent" DRM, and why Valve is seemingly "allowed" to get away with things that other companies (Microsoft, EA) aren't: they give you the carrot, not the stick. They say, "Connect this game to Steam, download the official modding tools, browse a selection of community mods sorted through a variety of filters!" They say, "Take these free games. You can spend money on cosmetics in them if you want, or don't; we're just happy to have active communities supporting them." They say, "Buy the game from us, because it's a seasonal sale and we've got it for a fifth of the retail price."
Origin hasn't done that for me. EA is pretty spotty about even permitting mods, much less supporting them and the modding community through the service. Rather than free-to-play, they plaster every screen in full price retail games with microtransactions and DLC that are borderline offensively priced. Their "sales" barely drop the prices down to what I could have gotten a boxed copy of the games from Amazon for.
No value added = no interest in your crappy proprietary "service".
3. No one trusts EA to be good stewards of their storefront.
That's the crux of it, isn't it? At the end of the day Valve has to be good stewards of Steam, not because they're saintly and without sin - I can just about see their office from where I'm sitting if I squint, they're just as fallible as anyone else - but because they have a vested interest in doing so. Steam itself generates profits far in excess of their first-party software output, and as a result they would sooner stop making games than do something to jeopardize the integrity of the platform.
EA? To be honest, the reason Origin's sales are so crappy is because it isn't in EA's best interests for the service to be good. They still make most of their money on first-party software sales. They can and will throw Origin under the bus to protect the profitability of their franchise offerings. They are, and always were, more interested in running their own service so that they can gain the maximum profit from the sale of their own goods, as opposed to Valve, who at this point actually make most of their money off the sale of other peoples' goods.
The difference may seem like a bunch of economic semantics, but it's actually vitally important.
No, the only issue is they're specifically opposed to Origin (and to a lesser extent, uPlay), so let's call it what it is and not pretend like it's "all Steam competitors" that are drawing fire.
I can't speak for anyone else, but as for why I don't like Origin:
1. Rather than driving down prices through competition, it actually seems to be serving to artificially inflate them by removing the games on that service from the pool of competing services. You can look at just about any game on Origin and clearly see it's selling for more than it would be on other services. They've gotten slightly better about this - they're no longer selling years-old games at full launch retail price - but it's hard not to think you wouldn't be able to get Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2, or SimCity (2013) for half to a fourth of the prices Origin's asking for them if they were on literally any other distributor.
2. EA has shown very little commitment to "value-added" DRM. This is an issue that people often overlook when talking about digital distribution and "inherent" DRM, and why Valve is seemingly "allowed" to get away with things that other companies (Microsoft, EA) aren't: they give you the carrot, not the stick. They say, "Connect this game to Steam, download the official modding tools, browse a selection of community mods sorted through a variety of filters!" They say, "Take these free games. You can spend money on cosmetics in them if you want, or don't; we're just happy to have active communities supporting them." They say, "Buy the game from us, because it's a seasonal sale and we've got it for a fifth of the retail price."
Origin hasn't done that for me. EA is pretty spotty about even permitting mods, much less supporting them and the modding community through the service. Rather than free-to-play, they plaster every screen in full price retail games with microtransactions and DLC that are borderline offensively priced. Their "sales" barely drop the prices down to what I could have gotten a boxed copy of the games from Amazon for.
No value added = no interest in your crappy proprietary "service".
3. No one trusts EA to be good stewards of their storefront.
That's the crux of it, isn't it? At the end of the day Valve has to be good stewards of Steam, not because they're saintly and without sin - I can just about see their office from where I'm sitting if I squint, they're just as fallible as anyone else - but because they have a vested interest in doing so. Steam itself generates profits far in excess of their first-party software output, and as a result they would sooner stop making games than do something to jeopardize the integrity of the platform.
EA? To be honest, the reason Origin's sales are so crappy is because it isn't in EA's best interests for the service to be good. They still make most of their money on first-party software sales. They can and will throw Origin under the bus to protect the profitability of their franchise offerings. They are, and always were, more interested in running their own service so that they can gain the maximum profit from the sale of their own goods, as opposed to Valve, who at this point actually make most of their money off the sale of other peoples' goods.
The difference may seem like a bunch of economic semantics, but it's actually vitally important.
No more than any other die-hard for Xbox or PlayStation. The majority of users use multiple services but many do choose to avoid things like EA's millionth rebranding of Origin or the absolute drivel that is GFWL. People love places like GoG or GMG and still buy retail, too.
Its not that people have some sort of a romance with Steam, its just the best tool for the job and soars above its main competitors. If I need to drill asphalt, I'm using an auger/jackhammer, not hamer and chisel.
Jumping to conclusions are we? Perhaps I can't buy Titanfall because EA doesn't support my country (which is the case) and doesn't let me pay in my own currency? Perhaps I'm putting my wallet where my mouth is and not buying anything from EA like a responsible costumer will do, and won't buy even if it comes out on steam? All that IS a costumer approach. And if my problems were only personal, I am the costumer, therefore every personal approach is also a costumer approach.
And, at the end of the day I don't NEED to convince EA. There are tons of games out there, more then I will ever play, that are worth my time. As far as I'm concerned Titanfall can go fuck itself.
It's never really bothered me. Yes it's nice to have games centralised in one place with Steam but if there's a good offer on another client money talks and I'll buy it there. I've a fair few games on Origin (which is a perfectly good client) and more than I thought I'd ever have on uPlay which has it's issues at times but isn't as bad as it's made out to be.
Funny because that's exactly what Steam has been doing for the last few years.
Frankly it gets irritating hearing people parrot blanket statements they heard in freshman economics class without really thinking about the situation at hand. What competition is EA offering Valve? What have they done in the past 3 years that wasn't already on Steam?
Devil's advocate: The Origin overlay has built-in Twitch streaming and Origin's return policy is arguable better than Valve's.
Those aren't a huge deal for me personally and I tend to agree that the rest of Steam's offerings (and Origin's shortfalls) far outweigh them, but they are something I guess.
Everything that Steam offers, outside the streamlined mod management, is either lame, barely functioning or a downright money scam (the entire trading card biz).
It isn't, not at all.
old manatee
Banned
I'll buy pc games from Steam, GOG, Desura, or from an independent developer's site, as in Minecraft or Cryptic Comet.
Maybe EA would have an easier time trying to sell their digital service to me if they hadn't spent the years prior to rolling it out closing down the servers for recently released games.
Uplay would be an easier sell if Ubisoft hadn't spent the years prior to rolling it out infecting computers with malware disguised as DRM.
Microsoft would have had an easier time with GFW if it wasn't a complete piece of broken shit that they didn't bother fixing.
My blizzard account was hacked and they want me to mail them 3 forms of id to fix it, so i'm just never going to buy another game from them.
Maybe EA would have an easier time trying to sell their digital service to me if they hadn't spent the years prior to rolling it out closing down the servers for recently released games.
Uplay would be an easier sell if Ubisoft hadn't spent the years prior to rolling it out infecting computers with malware disguised as DRM.
Microsoft would have had an easier time with GFW if it wasn't a complete piece of broken shit that they didn't bother fixing.
My blizzard account was hacked and they want me to mail them 3 forms of id to fix it, so i'm just never going to buy another game from them.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I only use Steam and GoG, I have no problem with the rest but I'm not giving EA any of my money.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Uplay seems alright to me, Origin is still dreadful and my account has been hacked (as have thousands of others) so there's a security flaw with it too. GOG is fine with me too, I'm not beholden to Steam either it's just the most convenient.
SteveWinwood
Member
How on earth is the marketplace a scam? Enlighten me.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't hate anything else.
It's just not convenient, so I don't care.
It's just not convenient, so I don't care.
The free money is only usable within the Steam ecosystem. ;_;
Has that been a big deal for them since they started it? I remember hearing about it a long time ago and it seemed like no one cared. People seem to be using that streaming stuff on Steam games just fine even without it being built in.
What is barely functioning? You need to explain if you're going to toss out phrases like that. As for the card stuff if you think it's a scam that's your opinion. For once I'm glad it's a scam where the money goes to the players and not just the company. I've made over $100 since they added cards, which has naturally helped me pay for games I wanted. All EA does is get close to charging $100 for their games on Origin.
Out of curiosity, at what point would the number of different clients and accounts you're juggling bother you? Half a dozen? A dozen?
To me, this is a bit like having one's physical collection split up across many different rooms. Personally, I want everything in one room. Many others don't seem to mind having part of their collection in the living room, another part in the kitchen, another part out in the garage. Sure, it's not hard to go into any of those rooms to go get the game. but it's awfully inconvenient if you ask me. Gotta be downright annoying when you don't know by heart which room the desired game is even in.
There is literally no reason for those cards to exist other than to exploit the vulnerable nature of some people who feel the urge to complete their collection once you give them some cards and to suck money out of them.
TheLetdown
Member
This is exactly where your argument went wrong. Your stance is that buying Titanfall (or some other major non-Steam game) is some foregone conclusion, when it's definitely not.
The statement made earlier that we are in a time where there are far more great games than time to play them is not only accurate, but will continue for the foreseeable future to be accurate. Getting older and having more responsibility heaped on only exacerbates the time crunch.
So any minor reason (a game not falling neatly in my centralized library, for example) to not purchase a game can become the deciding factor. That's where my power lies as a consumer. You can call it entitlement or you can call it the beauty of living in a gaming renaissance. For me, it simply is what is.
Imperfected
Member
It's a hat-based ponzi scheme.
(More seriously, the crates-and-hats economy does rely more heavily on Pavlovian leverage than I would like, but it's not like they're focus-targeting children, "selling power", or committing any of the other cardinal sins of monetization. It's pretty run-of-the-mill commerce psychology.)
This is self-evident though, everyone knows this already. Calling it a scam implies they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes in some fashion.
No, not at all. Anyone who's even remotely serious about streaming can do much better than the Origin overlay with free software that provides a lot more options and control. It might be useful for a very limited number of users, but overall it's kinda junk.
The return policy is something Steam should definitely compete with, though.
Suck money out of each other, you mean, since Valve doesn't sell cards. You can also trade cards for other cards and never spend a dime.
I'd like to add collecting cards isn't completely useless since it unlocks some extra perks in Steam's community features, which is who the cards were aimed at in the first place.
Again though, why do you care? It's the first "scam" of its kind to actually allow people to make money instead of the multi-billion dollar company. Yeah I think it's silly for people to spend $20 on a card but I'm not going to mock the guy who just handed me that money. The customer determines what is value and what isn't, that's the whole reason why that marketplace exists (or why any exist really).
Right now Steam's the only main gaming source where I can actually make money instead of spend it.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I feel like this is true of cards in general.
SteveWinwood
Member
And just about anything non essential you buy if you're really cynical.
Isn't there a tax on market prices? Where does that money go?
Valve takes 20% or something out of every transaction.
Well people in this very thread are trying to justify the existence of this nonsense systems using some BS arguments, so I don't think it's self-evident.
perfectsil
Member
no hate from me, I like the competition.
I haven't bought anything in a while so I might be wrong but I think the cut is 5% to Valve and 10% to the developer of the game the item/card is from.
Netrunner2k2
Member
You're correct.
I don't really know. The only two I regularly use are Steam and Origin with uPlay for the occasional title like Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell. Bar that I think I've one title that doesn't work with either of those three and that's Borderlands which is stuck in the GMG Capsule client and truth be told I do sometimes forget that I own but I've never even bothered downloading the game to play it. I only bought it as it was £2 and thought maybe I will some time.
Ideally I'd like to keep things between Steam and Origin and if I have to uPlay for the odd Ubisoft title. I can't really think of any other clients beyond those three that exist. I guess five would probably be the most I'd ideally want but who knows what the future holds on that front.
As one of the people being "scammed" by cards (probably put $50 or more into them over the last year), I think a lot of people probably appreciate me paying them for playing games so that I can have some digital chotchkes for my favorite pastime that they don't care about. Given how little time I have for gaming, that brings me more enjoyment than adding another generic shooter to my backlog.