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[Techno_Inked]

• I'm looking to finally build a PC. However I've got little knowledge of what's good or not.
• Goal is to achieve 4K 60FPS Ultra settings gaming for most games for the next 3 years.
• I am willing to pay more if you guys have any other suggestions.

This is what I'm thinking:

• Motherboard
  • 1x ASUS ROG STRIX X870E-E GAMING WIFI socket AM5
• CPU
  • 1x AMD Ryzen 9 9950X, 4,4 GHz (5,7 GHz Turbo Boost) socket AM5 processor
• GPU
  • 1x ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 9070 XT OC
• RAM
  • 1x Corsair 64 GB DDR5-6600 Kit
• SSD
  • 2x WD Black SN850X NVMe 4 TB SSD
• Case
  • 1x Lian Li 011 Dynamic EVO XL big tower
• Cooling
  • 1x ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 ARGB Extreme water cooling
• Case fans
  • 2x Lian Li UNI FAN SL120 LCD Wireless case fan
    1x Lian Li UNI FAN TL120 LCD Wireless Single Pack case fan
• PSU
  • 1x be quiet! Dark Power 13 1000W

Thanks in advance guys, appreciate your help!

 

[HRK69]

If you want PCIe 5.0 speeds, you could look at a Gen 5 SSD, but it's not necessary

 

[Techno_Inked]

If you want PCIe 5.0 speeds, you could look at a Gen 5 SSD, but it's not necessary

Thank you man! Any recommendations on which ones specifically?

 

[winjer]

Do you need this PC for work related applications that use a ton of CPU cores? If yes, consider waiting a bit for the 9950X3D. If it's just for games, then pick the 9800X3D.

 

[GHG]

If you want PCIe 5.0 speeds, you could look at a Gen 5 SSD, but it's not necessary

Techno_Inked

This is not necessary at all for gaming. We aren't even at the point where gen 4 drives are maxed out with games, not even close in fact.

Just get a decent quality gen 4 drive and be done with it. Will cost less and you won't have to worry about any of the other issues (such as heat) that are currently prevalent with gen 5 drives.

Regarding the CPU, just get a 9800x3d, or you can even drop down to a 9700x if you're going to be gaming at 4k on this machine and not doing much else.

 

[Techno_Inked]

Do you need this PC for work related applications that use a ton of CPU cores? If yes, consider waiting a bit for the 9950X3D. If it's just for games, then pick the 9800X3D.

Mostly for gaming, but also a bit of work. Programs I use are mostly Adobe related, such as Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign.

 

[GHG]

Mostly for gaming, but also a bit of work. Programs I use are mostly Adobe related, such as Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign.

Stick with the CPU you have selected then or consider waiting for the 9950x3d.

 

[Techno_Inked]

Techno_Inked

This is not necessary at all for gaming. We aren't even at the point where gen 4 drives are maxed out with games, not even close in fact.

Just get a decent quality gen 4 drive and be done with it. Will cost less and you won't have to worry about any of the other issues (such as heat) that are currently prevalent with gen 5 drives.

Regarding the CPU, just get a 9800x3d, or you can even drop down to a 9700x if you're going to be gaming at 4k on this machine and not doing much else.

I do want to keep all the components as cool as possible. So the ones I listed are fine?

 

[winjer]

Mostly for gaming, but also a bit of work. Programs I use are mostly Adobe related, such as Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign.

These are the prices for the 9950X3D, for your consideration.

 

[HRK69]

Techno_Inked

This is not necessary at all for gaming. We aren't even at the point where gen 4 drives are maxed out with games, not even close in fact.

Just get a decent quality gen 4 drive and be done with it. Will cost less and you won't have to worry about any of the other issues (such as heat) that are currently prevalent with gen 5 drives.

Regarding the CPU, just get a 9800x3d, or you can even drop down to a 9700x if you're going to be gaming at 4k on this machine and not doing much else.

That's why I wrote "but it's not necessary"

 

[Topher]

ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 ARGB Extreme water cooling

I'd say there are better options for the money there unless you want it for Asus lighting software.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Get one 4TB drive and upgrade to another one later.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Thank you man! Any recommendations on which ones specifically?

 

[GHG]

I do want to keep all the components as cool as possible. So the ones I listed are fine?

I'd suggest getting one of the Lian Li AIOs instead. Look at the Galahad 2 LCD.

The reason for this is because you already have some lian li fans selected. This way you can run everything through a single controller and only have to deal with one set of software on your PC once it's up and running. Asus' software is also a nightmare and doesn't play well when you mix and match.

 

[rofif]

save and get 32gb of ram and get 7800x3d cpu (9800x3d is really expensive but almost same speed)
with those savings, get a better gpu.
I like your SSD choice. now that's quality. But I would still get some cheap 512-1tb drive just for windows alone. I like to have them separated

Spoiler: also

 

[Thebonehead]

I just bought the 4tb version for my new rig. It's incredibly fast

 

[iALX]

4k@60fps is a reasonable target, and any powerful PC you build now should easily last you 3-4 years before you'd need to think of lowering graphics settings, especially with DLSS 4 and FSR 4 image quality advancements.

Here's what I'd recommend:

• CPU: AMD 9800X3D // or 7800X3D if you can't find one or it's too expensive.
  
  
• GPU option #1: A Sapphire or XFX 9070XT if you can find them at normal price. If not, an RTX 5070 Ti or RTX 4080 Super (if you can find one).
• GPU option #2: An RTX 4090 if you can find it at a reasonable price. I'd recommend a PNY if you can choose, but they're really scarce since production ceased, plus it'd be overkill for 60fps, but it'll last you longer.
  
  
• RAM: Kingston Fury Renegade 64GB Kit (2x32GB) 6000MT/s. // Kingston was always set-and-forget for RAM, never introduced instability. A 32GB kit (2x16GB) is also a good option for now if you'd like to save money.
  
  
• Motherboard: MSI MAG X870E Tomahawk Wifi // can also get an X670E MAG Tomahawk WIFI if the X870E is not available or too expensive.
  
  
• Storage: Kingston KC3000 2TB // don't bother with PCI-E 5.0 NVMEs for now. They're not that much faster practically (especially in games), and they introduce a lot more heat and thermal throttling.
  
  
• PSU: Super Flower LEADEX VII Platinum PRO 1000W // If you can't find it, Seasonic has good substitutes.
  
  
• Cooling: Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 // currently the best, very affordable and reliable.
  
  
• Case: APNX v1 // great airflow.
  
  
• Case fans: Noctua NF-A14 Chromax // get Noctua fans for the case and you'll never worry about airflow, noise or fan longevity.

It's a bit tough to be looking for a new PC right now due to GPU prices, but you can work around it, especially if you're not in hurry

 

[Topher]

I'd suggest getting one of the Lian Li AIOs instead. Look at the Galahad 2 LCD.

The reason for this is because you already have some lian li fans selected. This way you can run everything through a single controller and only have to deal with one set of software on your PC once it's up and running. Asus' software is also a nightmare and doesn't play well when you mix and match.

Yep. I have an Asus motherboard and it doesn't work that great even with other Asus branded coolers/fans.

 

[AzekZero]

As someone with a 7900 XTX, the only two games the extra 8GB of VRAM has come in handy so far:

1. Skyrim with 4k/8k textures
2. Monster Hunter Wilds

 

[Astray]

• I'm looking to finally build a PC. However I've got little knowledge of what's good or not.
• Goal is to achieve 4K 60FPS Ultra settings gaming for most games for the next 3 years.
• I am willing to pay more if you guys have any other suggestions.

This is what I'm thinking:

• Motherboard
  • 1x ASUS ROG STRIX X870E-E GAMING WIFI socket AM5
• CPU
  • 1x AMD Ryzen 9 9950X, 4,4 GHz (5,7 GHz Turbo Boost) socket AM5 processor
• GPU
  • 1x ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 9070 XT OC
• RAM
  • 1x Corsair 64 GB DDR5-6600 Kit
• SSD
  • 2x WD Black SN850X NVMe 4 TB SSD
• Case
  • 1x Lian Li 011 Dynamic EVO XL big tower
• Cooling
  • 1x ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 ARGB Extreme water cooling
• Case fans
  • 2x Lian Li UNI FAN SL120 LCD Wireless case fan
    1x Lian Li UNI FAN TL120 LCD Wireless Single Pack case fan
• PSU
  • 1x be quiet! Dark Power 13 1000W

Thanks in advance guys, appreciate your help!

IMO steer clear from Asus Mobos unless you are okay with Armory Crate. Go with something that plays nice with Lian Li (or alternatively go with all Cooler Master for both AIO and fans, the Atmos AIOs are underrated imo, and Mobius fans are fantastic and v.quiet for an ARGB fan, they all work with the ARGB headers on your Mobo too, simplifying the RGB controls). The other thing I want you to keep in mind is X870E might be overkill for your needs, I'd probably investigate if any of the B650E mobos satisfy your connectivity and spec needs ahead of going for a x870E, Hardware Unboxed has great mobo round-ups and recommendations.

2nd, you might want to either go for a 9800X3D or wait for the two new X3D variants announced today.

3rd, with DDR5, afaik, the happy spot is CL30 6000MHz, make sure your ram kit is Hynix A and supports AMD EXPO for minimal issues when enabling EXPO profile. Also steer clear from 4-DIMM kits.

4th, investigate other brands like Lexar, Team Group etc for your SSDs, you might get some good deals from them at a similar perf to the WD ones you chose.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

X870 is overkill unless you really need the PCIE lanes/USB support (not sure if that's all that is different from B boards these days though). a B650E/B850 is more than enough for most people. if you don't want/need PCIE 5 then B650 but you might be able to just get a B850

wait a couple more days for the 9950X3D if you're going to be doing more than gaming. otherwise a 9800X3D is enough.

64GB is useful if again you're doing more than gaming. If you fuck around with AI you will need the RAM. If just gaming then 32GB is enough but if you want to future proof then go 64GB. I've saw games use 25-27GB so 32GB is already cutting a bit close for me personally and I'm glad I went with 64GB a couple years ago. also 6000Mhz is the sweetspot. you're wasting your money on anything faster. get one with a lower latency. this is the CL speed you'll see advertised or in the specs of the RAM.

whatever SSD you get make sure it's PCIE 4. PCIE 3 is fine but 4 is cheap enough these days. PCIE 5 is faster and more future proof but more expensive, runs hotter, and honestly won't be utilised much.

everything else is just personal preference as long as it's compatible. PSU is the same but of course you need something that is enough for your entire system.

the AIO i'd recommend the Arctic Liquid Freezer III. i only paid £90 for my 360MM and it chills my 7950X3D real good. get the biggest AIO your case supports. it's a high quality AIO at a really good price.

IMO steer clear from Asus Mobos unless you are okay with Armory Crate.

i have Asus board with no issues. if you don't want to do deal with the AC shit then just disable it in bios. I've never used AC

 

[Astray]

i have Asus board with no issues. if you don't want to do deal with the AC shit then just disable it in bios. I've never used AC

I made the mistake of using it for ARGB stuff and now I kinda regret it lol.

Tbf it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's also not good software at all. I'm considering removing it to see if I gain any performance benefits.

RGB controls on PC are.. not great rn.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

I made the mistake of using it for ARGB stuff and now I kinda regret it lol.

Tbf it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's also not good software at all. I'm considering removing it to see if I gain any performance benefits.

RGB controls on PC are.. not great rn.

i don't know. my case comes with RGB fans and has a built in controller so i just use that. can't be fucked with dealing with software controls. it's a mess

 

[lachesis]

Mostly for gaming, but also a bit of work. Programs I use are mostly Adobe related, such as Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign.

I upgraded from 7800x3d to 9950x for my main, with similar work, and it feels quite a bit better. 9800x3d should be snappier than 7800x3d - but 9950x is a great choice, especially gaming at 4k, as x3d isn't as impactful in 4k resolution. (It makes more difference on lower resolution). 9950x3d maybe good for both, but I would definitely wait for reviews and pricing.

I have a 4080 Super paired with it and 4k 60fps isn't much of an issue as long as you keep your expectations in check. You can run most at ultra settings at 4k, but RT may need to be toned down and turn on upscale a bit, depending on titles.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Damnit GHG has you covered in this thread. Basically saying everything i would suggest.

GG broski

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Do you need this PC for work related applications that use a ton of CPU cores? If yes, consider waiting a bit for the 9950X3D. If it's just for games, then pick the 9800X3D.

Correct.

 

[Randall365]

If you want 4k 60fps at ultra for 3 years, you probably need a 4090/5090 - maybe 5080- and it would be nice to have an x3d processor.

I have a 9800x3d and a 4080 super and whilst I can crank out near enough 100fps on Indy at the second setting down (with full rt), it is at 1440 ultrawide - 4k is a step up. You have to think that over the next 3 years, the top games will be Indy specs or a bit above.

 

[Lootlord]

9800X3D or get out

 

[SHA]

R9 9800X3D processor
Rtx 4080 Ti, you need raw power with no issues, keep it simple.

 

[delirium trigger]

nvm

 

[Techno_Inked]

4k@60fps is a reasonable target, and any powerful PC you build now should easily last you 3-4 years before you'd need to think of lowering graphics settings, especially with DLSS 4 and FSR 4 image quality advancements.

Here's what I'd recommend:

• CPU: AMD 9800X3D // or 7800X3D if you can't find one or it's too expensive.
  
  
• GPU option #1: A Sapphire or XFX 9070XT if you can find them at normal price. If not, an RTX 5070 Ti or RTX 4080 Super (if you can find one).
• GPU option #2: An RTX 4090 if you can find it at a reasonable price. I'd recommend a PNY if you can choose, but they're really scarce since production ceased, plus it'd be overkill for 60fps, but it'll last you longer.
  
  
• RAM: Kingston Fury Renegade 64GB Kit (2x32GB) 6000MT/s. // Kingston was always set-and-forget for RAM, never introduced instability. A 32GB kit (2x16GB) is also a good option for now if you'd like to save money.
  
  
• Motherboard: MSI MAG X870E Tomahawk Wifi // can also get an X670E MAG Tomahawk WIFI if the X870E is not available or too expensive.
  
  
• Storage: Kingston KC3000 2TB // don't bother with PCI-E 5.0 NVMEs for now. They're not that much faster practically (especially in games), and they introduce a lot more heat and thermal throttling.
  
  
• PSU: Super Flower LEADEX VII Platinum PRO 1000W // If you can't find it, Seasonic has good substitutes.
  
  
• Cooling: Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 // currently the best, very affordable and reliable.
  
  
• Case: APNX v1 // great airflow.
  
  
• Case fans: Noctua NF-A14 Chromax // get Noctua fans for the case and you'll never worry about airflow, noise or fan longevity.

It's a bit tough to be looking for a new PC right now due to GPU prices, but you can work around it, especially if you're not in hurry

Thank you man!!

• CPU:
  • Considering so many people recommended it I think I'm going for a 9800X3D for now.
• GPU:
  • Unfortunately I can't find any RTX 4090s for a reasonable price. I've found a Sapphire Radeon RX 9070XT Nitro+ Gaming OC, what makes this one better than the one I chose though? Not that I don't believe you, just wanna learn.
• RAM:
  • I have seen these I think, this should be an easy get.
• Motherboard:
  • Might go for a different motherboard since a few people here said it might be overkill
• Storage:
  • Are there any 4TB versions of those? I feel like I need 8TB nowadays and don't want to worry bout them for a while.
• PSU:
  • I looked around just now, don't think I can find the Super Flower one, I do see some Seasonics though.
• Cooling:
  • Dude thanks for this advice, I have 0 knowledge bout coolers but I do value cooling my PC a lot!
• Case:
  • Holy shit this case looks wicked too!!
• Case fans:
  • Yess, think I will go for these fans, as I know nothing about fans lol

IMO steer clear from Asus Mobos unless you are okay with Armory Crate. Go with something that plays nice with Lian Li (or alternatively go with all Cooler Master for both AIO and fans, the Atmos AIOs are underrated imo, and Mobius fans are fantastic and v.quiet for an ARGB fan, they all work with the ARGB headers on your Mobo too, simplifying the RGB controls). The other thing I want you to keep in mind is X870E might be overkill for your needs, I'd probably investigate if any of the B650E mobos satisfy your connectivity and spec needs ahead of going for a x870E, Hardware Unboxed has great mobo round-ups and recommendations.

2nd, you might want to either go for a 9800X3D or wait for the two new X3D variants announced today.

3rd, with DDR5, afaik, the happy spot is CL30 6000MHz, make sure your ram kit is Hynix A and supports AMD EXPO for minimal issues when enabling EXPO profile. Also steer clear from 4-DIMM kits.

4th, investigate other brands like Lexar, Team Group etc for your SSDs, you might get some good deals from them at a similar perf to the WD ones you chose.

• I'd probably go for the Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 for now, as someone mentioned this model and since I know nothing bout coolers I kinda need specifics.
• Isn't the B650E an Asus motherboard?
• I am open for paying more for good RAM, performance doesn't to be close to the ones I chose if the ones I chose are bad haha.

X870 is overkill unless you really need the PCIE lanes/USB support (not sure if that's all that is different from B boards these days though). a B650E/B850 is more than enough for most people. if you don't want/need PCIE 5 then B650 but you might be able to just get a B850

wait a couple more days for the 9950X3D if you're going to be doing more than gaming. otherwise a 9800X3D is enough.

64GB is useful if again you're doing more than gaming. If you fuck around with AI you will need the RAM. If just gaming then 32GB is enough but if you want to future proof then go 64GB. I've saw games use 25-27GB so 32GB is already cutting a bit close for me personally and I'm glad I went with 64GB a couple years ago. also 6000Mhz is the sweetspot. you're wasting your money on anything faster. get one with a lower latency. this is the CL speed you'll see advertised or in the specs of the RAM.

whatever SSD you get make sure it's PCIE 4. PCIE 3 is fine but 4 is cheap enough these days. PCIE 5 is faster and more future proof but more expensive, runs hotter, and honestly won't be utilised much.

everything else is just personal preference as long as it's compatible. PSU is the same but of course you need something that is enough for your entire system.

the AIO i'd recommend the Arctic Liquid Freezer III. i only paid £90 for my 360MM and it chills my 7950X3D real good. get the biggest AIO your case supports. it's a high quality AIO at a really good price.


i have Asus board with no issues. if you don't want to do deal with the AC shit then just disable it in bios. I've never used AC

• Im considering the B650E an Asus motherboard, but someone said they'd avoid ASUS, so not sure.
• Probably going for a 9800X3D, as I don't need to have the best for now. 2nd best is also ok.
• Any specific SSDs you can recommend which are 4TB per?
• Yes, probably going for the Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360.

I upgraded from 7800x3d to 9950x for my main, with similar work, and it feels quite a bit better. 9800x3d should be snappier than 7800x3d - but 9950x is a great choice, especially gaming at 4k, as x3d isn't as impactful in 4k resolution. (It makes more difference on lower resolution). 9950x3d maybe good for both, but I would definitely wait for reviews and pricing.

I have a 4080 Super paired with it and 4k 60fps isn't much of an issue as long as you keep your expectations in check. You can run most at ultra settings at 4k, but RT may need to be toned down and turn on upscale a bit, depending on titles.

• Think I'm going for a 9800X3D since a couple of people have mentioned it.
• Ye I think the RT is more a case by case basis. For games like Black Myth Wukong, it seems kinda impossible.

If you want 4k 60fps at ultra for 3 years, you probably need a 4090/5090 - maybe 5080- and it would be nice to have an x3d processor.

I have a 9800x3d and a 4080 super and whilst I can crank out near enough 100fps on Indy at the second setting down (with full rt), it is at 1440 ultrawide - 4k is a step up. You have to think that over the next 3 years, the top games will be Indy specs or a bit above.

• Dude I wish I can go for a 4090 or a 5090, but can't find any for a reasonable price haha. Everything is like 3k+
• It also seems like the 5080 is similar to the 9070XT (besides RT), but a lot more pricey, that's why I chose for the 9070XT

 

[DanEON]

If you want native 4k@60 there isn't any hardware at the moment capable of doing it. But if you want to achieve it with DLSS/FSR then you will be fine with a RTX4090.
So go for:
RTX4090
AMD 9800X3D (best gaming cpu)
Any X670E-Plus mobo (no difference to X870E)
Some Gen5 SSD
1000+W PSU

That's it

 

[Xyphie]

Motherboard: You're overspending unless you really want a lot of PCIe lanes. Consider getting a B650/E/B850/X870 motherboard instead. PCIe 5 is not really worth pursuing at the moment in either storage or GPU.
CPU: Unless you're doing a lot of productivity work just get a 9800X3D instead.
RAM: You're overspending unless you're doing stuff that requires 64GB, drop down to some 6000CL30 32GB kit or so.
SSD: One good SSD is fine. Consider buying cheaper auxiliary drives if you just store games on them. Just shop for good $/GB. Get M.2 riser boards for your PCIe 4x and PCIe 1x slots and use those for storage.

In general you should probably drop a lot of the cosmetic fluff if your goal is 4K Ultra (I assume this means maxed RT settings) and put that into a better GPU either now or in the future, even a 5090 is going to struggle.

 

[Hohenheim]

I'd get a PSU with more watts, so you don't have to worry about future upgrades on that front.
I recently got the Corsair HXi 1500i, highly recommend it.

 

[Astray]

• I'd probably go for the Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 for now, as someone mentioned this model and since I know nothing bout coolers I kinda need specifics.
• Isn't the B650E an Asus motherboard?
• I am open for paying more for good RAM, performance doesn't to be close to the ones I chose if the ones I chose are bad haha.

- If you go for the Arctic LF3, then make sure it fits in your chosen case, as it's thicker than most AIOs.
- B650E is an AMD chipset, same as X870E, you can find models from all manufacturers. Techspot has good rundowns of all models with recommendations for budget ranges.
- Paying more for RAM has a ceiling imo, because anything higher than CL30 6000hz has stability issues when overclocked. Better to put that money into another part or your pocket.

 

[Hohenheim]

Paying more for RAM has a ceiling imo, because anything higher than CL30 6000hz has stability issues when overclocked. Better to put that money into another part or your pocket.

Agree.
And the gains for anything over CL30 6000hz is minimal.
Rather go for 6000hz than higher hz with higher CL. Latency with anything over 30CL will be more noticeable than gain with higer Hz.

 

[Jigsaah]

If you're just doing gaming I would recommend an x3d chip. Seems the multitasking performance has been improved this generation so workstation processes should be closer to the non-x3d counterparts. Either way, seems like a lotta CPUfor the GPU you chose. If price is not an issue, maybe go 5080?

Check out this bottleneck calculator. A lot will depend on the games you play or applications you use, but this should give you a rough idea if you're leaving some performance on the table.

Bottleneck Calculator | PC Builds

We bring you a unique calculator for bottleneck and chokepoint problems in your computer. We will help you to choose most appropriate processor and graphic card for your PC. Our calculator offers you best solutions for reducing or removing bottleneck problems.

pc-builds.com

I apologize in advance about the inundation of ads on this site.

 

[lachesis]

• Think I'm going for a 9800X3D since a couple of people have mentioned it.
• Ye I think the RT is more a case by case basis. For games like Black Myth Wukong, it seems kinda impossible.

Cool - 9800x3d is indeed the king of the gaming CPU now, so you can't go wrong with it. Also Photoshop is pretty darn fast on 9800x3d too - so it may fit you too.
I thought my 7800x3d would be good enough for work purpose (photoshop/illustrator/indesign included) - and it was okay, but honestly didn't blow me away... so I upgraded to 9950x and couldn't be happier.
Feels very snappy at flat 5.2ghz across entire 16 physical cores.

(It can go upto 5.7ghz in boost clock on certain cores, but I opted it out and using flat 5.2ghz speed with no Precision Boost Overdrive aka PBO at lower voltage).

9950x3d maybe the best of the both world - but it's almost 150+ more expensive than non X3D. At least it's got same clock speed at 5.7ghz boost as 9950x, but 9950x is a pretty power hungry - and I assume 9950x3d would be the same?

Anyhow, since you waited this long to build, and seem like you are willing to put in some $$$ on your setup - perhaps waiting for 9950x3d for a couple of weeks may not be a bad idea.
(Unless you have all the parts ready, including your GPU.... I couldn't get 9070xt on launch day. haha)