Yeah, I'm holding my shit here because I already bought Uncharted Collection and Until Dawn this month. Thinking about waiting for next month's sale on Steam. I hope it gets a discount there again. =B
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PC Racing Sims Thread
- Thread starter Big Takeover
- Start date
Yeah, I'm holding my shit here because I already bought Uncharted Collection and Until Dawn this month. Thinking about waiting for next month's sale on Steam. I hope it gets a discount there again. =B
Betta Lines
Member
The AI is not AC's strongest suit. It's much better than it was, but it struggles in close packs and you can take liberties with it at the start (outbraking most of the field into the first couple of corners). Once the cars settle down, they're very challenging to catch. So if you're happy to hold back for the first lap, then you can have good races. Problem is, if you've got a career to win, it's very difficult to hold back! The career isn't great either tbh.
For me, AC is all about the joy of solo hotlapping, drifting like a hooligan, and quick online races.
For me, AC is all about the joy of solo hotlapping, drifting like a hooligan, and quick online races.
I guess that this is a problem with every sim out there, it seems. =P
And why the career isn't great? What's wrong with it? I'm not into hotlapping. :3
Betta Lines
Member
To some extent yes, but it is more apparent here. I'd put R3E, rF2, SCE/Automobilista and PCARS all above AC in terms of AI, possibly in that order...
It's basically a list of races you could set up yourself in the 'quick race' mode. Again you could say the same of most sims, but you can see behind the curtain in AC, due to the way it is presented. The launcher is a bit like using a flash website. There's no music for start. You get the odd video here and there, and a bit of text to explain the next challenge, but it's really basic stuff, and you can get to the 'end' very quickly. It's possible that the console version will feel a lot better in this regard with the overhauled UI. Problem is, they're up against the likes of Forza on the consoles, which has incredibly slick presentation, rewards/unlocks, voiceovers, etc. There's nothing like that on AC.
Hmm, I have R3E and Project Cars and I'm not a big fan of their AIs. =/
Grid Autosport is still the GOAT in that department, IMO. Too bad it's not a sim. GTR 2 was great too.
So it's kind of like with R3E championship creator?
Can I set a championship with only GT3 cars and 20 races, for example?
Thanks, Betta!
Betta Lines
Member
I've had great fun with R3E AI. PCARS is too aggressive, but it suits the nature of the game imo. It can be very exciting! But yeah, YMMV.
It's one career, where you start in the slowest cars and work your way through the content. The progression is like a Forza or GT where you are awarded bronze, silver or gold, and you 'unlock' the next series (but it is simply pulling from the content which is all available in the main menu from the start). It's a neat way to go through the content, and if you like the challenge of getting all the medals. There are also special events in a separate menu, which tend to be more interesting than the career anyway.
There's no built-in championship creator, but the system was designed so that the community could create their own without too much fuss. A career generator popped up a while ago, which you may be able to use to create the GT3 championship you describe: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/accg-assetto-corsa-career-generator.4191/
Or you might find one already made here: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/ac-career.60/
Dave_6
Member
Assetto Corsa has a couple of really good single seaters as default content. There are also these three mods, which IMO are three of the best mods out there for any sim:
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ferrari-f2002.8703/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rsr-formula-3.8040/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/formula-renault-3-5-2014-season.6951/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ferrari-f2002.8703/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rsr-formula-3.8040/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/formula-renault-3-5-2014-season.6951/
sweet, thanks! I just picked up AC on steam so I'll definitely have to explore it more.
Dave_6
Member
No problem! Here's another I forgot about as I believe it isn't on Racedepartment:
http://mak-corp.com.au/index.php/component/k2/item/69-mclaren-mp4-4-mod
Join the AC forum as well as there are good mods that get posted on there that don't get uploaded onto RD. Plus there are no worries of getting fakes/rips on the official forums.
http://mak-corp.com.au/index.php/component/k2/item/69-mclaren-mp4-4-mod
Join the AC forum as well as there are good mods that get posted on there that don't get uploaded onto RD. Plus there are no worries of getting fakes/rips on the official forums.
Agreed.
Audio isn't AC's greatest strength but the GTR really does sound great especially with the turbo spool and BOV..
Patrick S.
Banned
The audio in AC is much better than pCARS', at least. In AC, the cars have a nice growl, and every car has a distinctive sound. Listen to the P1 in both games, or listen to the Mercedes 190 or the Mustang in both games, for example. In pCARS, the P1 sounds just like every other car, in AC its unique sound is recreated perfectly. Or listen to the Huayra whining when you let go of the accelerator in both games, in AC it sounds like IRL, in pCARS the whine isn't even there.
TylerDurden4321
Member
Kunos themselves do a fantastic job at recreating the individual sound of each car, it's their sound engine that makes it all sound a little isolated and doesn't allow for the intensiveness pCARS can achieve but rarely does.
Isn't the sound engine in AC bought from some external company and was used in other games too?
sweet, thanks! I'll check out the AC forums too.
Coming from GT/Pcars, I'd have to say the sound is much better imo - they actually sound like performance cars.
Yeah, that's what the sound modders have complained about since Kunos went to FMOD for their engine.
Whilst the cars themselves sound great, I'm actually talking about the other systemic effects such as environmental, reverb, doppler..etc. However, they are constantly on the move for better audio implementation and the fact the there is always new game/car audio tech releasing every year, it's only going to get better from here on out.
Also, pCars 1 might not have the best fidelity(lots of distortion) in their engine sets, for me, they do sound a little more 'racier' than other games which is what I expect from cars such as the Zakspeed Capri for example. That craziness coming from the twin cam 1.4 turbo engine...man..chills down the spine!
But yeah, from what I've read so far in regards to what SMS have in store for pCars 2 audio for the future, and from a recently captured recording of what to expect...damn, I'm going to need several pairs of new underwear...
At the moment for me, Raceroom and Dirt Rally are the benchmarks for great audio. Dave Sullivan and Anthony Monteil need to take a bow..
TylerDurden4321
Member
FMOD, thank you! That was what I thought of.
pCARS 1 had a great sound trailer in 2013 too... this time I refuse to get hyped, but I'll give them a fair chance once pCARS 2 or a demo is out.
pCARS 1 had a great sound trailer in 2013 too... this time I refuse to get hyped, but I'll give them a fair chance once pCARS 2 or a demo is out.
TJP
Member
Since the Japanese car pack came out for Assetto Corsa, I've been wanting a modder to give the Skyline R34 and RX-7 levels of HP to match what has been accomplished in the real world. I'm not a modder and have no intention of being a modder anytime soon however given a few Google searches, it's easy to work out what needs to be done to at least mod the engine, tyres and brakes to match what the tuning world can acomplish.
After a few minutes of searching and reading sites e.g. the Reddit AC forum, it turns out all one needs very little to become a AC modder - notepad++ and a program to decrypt the data file which is made up of little more than ini files and a few specific .lut files. I've discovered very basic modding is rather easy and slightly addictive To my eyes, AC is a lot more complex than a certain blog would make you believe. One simple change to the max boost line in the engine.ini and the 400+HP RX-7 becomes a 550HP RX-7. Of course it's very easy to go crazy with boost and end up with an undrivable pig.
Within minutes, the newly created engine.ini for the R34 GTR had a raised rev limit, the turbo pressure became cockpit adjustable and I'd modified the engine damage parameters (no more 100% boost engine damage). I'd also mucked about with the power.lut file to give the GTR a few more ponies prior to the turbo's adding even more grunt to simulate a capacity increase from 2.6 to 2.8 litres.
One can do similar things to brake strength & cockpit adjustable with the brake.ini, add gears in the drivetrain.ini file (my tuned RX-7 now has a close ratio 6 speed gearbox) or modify ratios, diff ratios, add or remove downshift protection etc. Tyres can be widened or completely swapped with other tyres from other cars.
The way in which Kunos have created their files is really easy for an idiot like me to follow. Bear in mind this is nothing more than shits 'n giggles for me; I'm not going to dick about with aspects such as aero modding or completely overhauling the cars and there is no way I'm heading online with modded cars.
Those interested can search 'modding data.acd' files
After a few minutes of searching and reading sites e.g. the Reddit AC forum, it turns out all one needs very little to become a AC modder - notepad++ and a program to decrypt the data file which is made up of little more than ini files and a few specific .lut files. I've discovered very basic modding is rather easy and slightly addictive
To my eyes, AC is a lot more complex than a certain blog would make you believe. One simple change to the max boost line in the engine.ini and the 400+HP RX-7 becomes a 550HP RX-7. Of course it's very easy to go crazy with boost and end up with an undrivable pig.Within minutes, the newly created engine.ini for the R34 GTR had a raised rev limit, the turbo pressure became cockpit adjustable and I'd modified the engine damage parameters (no more 100% boost engine damage). I'd also mucked about with the power.lut file to give the GTR a few more ponies prior to the turbo's adding even more grunt to simulate a capacity increase from 2.6 to 2.8 litres.
One can do similar things to brake strength & cockpit adjustable with the brake.ini, add gears in the drivetrain.ini file (my tuned RX-7 now has a close ratio 6 speed gearbox) or modify ratios, diff ratios, add or remove downshift protection etc. Tyres can be widened or completely swapped with other tyres from other cars.
The way in which Kunos have created their files is really easy for an idiot like me to follow. Bear in mind this is nothing more than shits 'n giggles for me; I'm not going to dick about with aspects such as aero modding or completely overhauling the cars and there is no way I'm heading online with modded cars.
Those interested can search 'modding data.acd' files
TylerDurden4321
Member
Within minutes, the newly created engine.ini for the R34 GTR had a raised rev limit, the turbo pressure became cockpit adjustable and I'd modified the engine damage parameters (no more 100% boost engine damage). I'd also mucked about with the power.lut file to give the GTR a few more ponies prior to the turbo's adding even more grunt to simulate a capacity increase from 2.6 to 2.8 litres.
[...]
Those interested can search 'modding data.acd' files
You inspired me to look into this as well. I managed to write a tiny program that stretches the wheel-torque data in the power.lut-file horizontally to simulate some forza-realism level cam-tuning.
Blue is the original at-tire-level lb*ft torque data. Orange is my stretched version, which should result in about 876hp at 7480rpm (at engine level! ...that's plus turbo boost and minus driveline efficiency). I'll see later how close I was with my calculation, because it's based on 0.9 bar turbo boost and there's a problem:
What I'm not getting is what the wastegate value does (it's below MaxBoost in the engine.ini). I always thought that at the boost-level the wastegate is triggered, the turbo would keep that boost (flatlining the boost-curve from there). But the GTR's wastegate value of 0.525 is too low for that, it then couldn't reach its real world max torque. The maxboost must be the actual multiplier, but what is the wastegate value then? My engineering knowledge is exhausted here.
TJP
Member
Nice work! From what I can gather, the power.lut file for turbo charged cars is torque in newton metres and this is multplied by the max boost or as the file reads (from memory) T=T*(1+boost pressure). A boost pressure of 2 gives a 3x increase in torque.
Read through the Assetto Corsa forum as there are a few threads concerning the power.lut file and turbo'd engines. I followed the K.I.S.S. method to keep things easy
Read through the Assetto Corsa forum as there are a few threads concerning the power.lut file and turbo'd engines. I followed the K.I.S.S. method to keep things easy
I'd read through this thread: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...amount-of-hp-torque-your-car-is-making.29517/ it gives some good info on the wastegate and how to tune a car.
TylerDurden4321
Member
thanks, I have to sign up to read it, will do that tmorrow.Nice work! From what I can gather, the power.lut file for turbo charged cars is torque in newton metres and this is multplied by the max boost or as the file reads (from memory) T=T*(1+boost pressure). A boost pressure of 2 gives a 3x increase in torque.
Read through the Assetto Corsa forum as there are a few threads concerning the power.lut file and turbo'd engines. I followed the K.I.S.S. method to keep things easy
I'd read through this thread: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...amount-of-hp-torque-your-car-is-making.29517/ it gives some good info on the wastegate and how to tune a car.
So firing up AC for the first time since it went out of EA (I know) is a pretty grand experience. I'm just grateful there's a sim out there which has a solid user interface, works right out of the box with very little tweaking and even has a (token) career mode.
Super impressed with it, I hope Automobilista/Reiza can take a leaf at least out of their UI book, it's far more friendly and less busy than many sims that have come before it.
Just a shame it seems that RD is down now, means I can't download those mods that people posted earlier, they all look awesome!
Super impressed with it, I hope Automobilista/Reiza can take a leaf at least out of their UI book, it's far more friendly and less busy than many sims that have come before it.
Just a shame it seems that RD is down now, means I can't download those mods that people posted earlier, they all look awesome!
TylerDurden4321
Member
That forum post was super helpful, thanks again for the link @TJP.
I assumed pound feet torque because with a 81.5% efficiency I could get the 481lb*ft peak of the GT-R as a result. Problem was, I forgot brackets in the denominator and ended up multiplying with the efficiency (making the engine torque lower than what's on the wheels).
Seems like my engine knowledge wasn't exhausted about the wastegate function. The reason why it didn't reach the real world equivalent's torque in my calculation was that the GT-R has a bi-turbo. So, 2x the wastegate boost level (something inside me rebels against cumulating boost of twin turbos like they're staged(<--edited)).
That was still easy to figure out. If I wanted to to get a real powergraph out of the engine.ini and power.lut I neded to get the turbo boost curve for the lower rpm range right though and that took a little longer, but at the end I figured out an equation and can plot boost graphs now (that's total boost, not per turbo):
Next I I interpolate the missing values from the power.lut. Now to get the flywheel level power graph I need to find the efficiency from engine to wheels, which means finding the maximum in the at-tire-level hp-curve derived from the torque graph multiplied with the boost curve and divide it by the real world max bhp value.
Now with wheel-torque curve, efficiency and turbo-boost curve I can plot a hopefully accurate dyno graph.
Example from the Nissan GT-R Nismo again:
phew.... *wiper button*
edit: could be that I have the GT-R 2015 version, resulting in wrong efficiency, but the maxBHP@6800rpm is right, even if it's 9bhp too much for the 2014 AC-version.
I assumed pound feet torque because with a 81.5% efficiency I could get the 481lb*ft peak of the GT-R as a result. Problem was, I forgot brackets in the denominator and ended up multiplying with the efficiency (making the engine torque lower than what's on the wheels).
Seems like my engine knowledge wasn't exhausted about the wastegate function. The reason why it didn't reach the real world equivalent's torque in my calculation was that the GT-R has a bi-turbo. So, 2x the wastegate boost level (something inside me rebels against cumulating boost of twin turbos like they're staged(<--edited)).
That was still easy to figure out. If I wanted to to get a real powergraph out of the engine.ini and power.lut I neded to get the turbo boost curve for the lower rpm range right though and that took a little longer, but at the end I figured out an equation and can plot boost graphs now (that's total boost, not per turbo):
Next I I interpolate the missing values from the power.lut. Now to get the flywheel level power graph I need to find the efficiency from engine to wheels, which means finding the maximum in the at-tire-level hp-curve derived from the torque graph multiplied with the boost curve and divide it by the real world max bhp value.
Now with wheel-torque curve, efficiency and turbo-boost curve I can plot a hopefully accurate dyno graph.
Example from the Nissan GT-R Nismo again:
phew.... *wiper button*
edit: could be that I have the GT-R 2015 version, resulting in wrong efficiency, but the maxBHP@6800rpm is right, even if it's 9bhp too much for the 2014 AC-version.
Betta Lines
Member
It's good enough to get racin'! Let us know how it goes
Betta Lines
Member
Very cool. 2015 was unfairly panned - the racing, handling and visuals were never better. With that as a starting point, fleshing out the missing parts could result in a genuinely great game.
Big Takeover
Member
"A rich car upgrade system is fully integrated into a new and deep practice development programme which mirrors the tests carried out by the teams in real life."
Sounds interesting!
Sounds interesting!
scorcher59
Member
It was good fun using the full practice sessions in F1 2011 to work on car development, hopefully full FP1, 2 & 3 comes back
TJP
Member
No worries
The last spreadsheet in this thread is worth a look too: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/power-lut-metric-numbers.22006/#post-420761
I'm finding using the spreadsheet makes it so much easier to recreate some of the cars one sees on the internet or read about in magazines.
Betta Lines
Member
This is in F1 2015.
TylerDurden4321
Member
Maybe I'm a little pedantic and perfectionist, but not really a fan of that spreadsheet here.
- Only room for one turbo, so you have to add the values of multiple turbos together yourself if the engine has more than one turbo (and no help text, telling you to do that, if you're unfamiliar with how AC calculates this).
- The drivetrain loss could be calculated, if the spreadsheet would ask you to look up the real world bhp of the car, but this way you have to guess it.
- The formula for calculating hp from torque and rpm is wrong. I know, I'm throwing around with units like bhp, hp and PS too, but the conversion factor torque*rpm/7056 from the spreadsheet doesn't make sense.
It should be either:
torque*rpm /7120.91
[ 60 * 745.69987 / (2*Pi) with 1hp (imperial) = 745.69987W) ],
or
torque*rpm/7023.5
[ 60 * 735.49875 / (2*Pi) with 1hp/PS (metric) = 735.49875W ].
Man, I can't believe I finally bought a wheel.
Can't wait til my G27 arrives. *o*
Thanks again, Betta! Looks great!
Can't wait til my G27 arrives. *o*
I've had great fun with R3E AI. PCARS is too aggressive, but it suits the nature of the game imo. It can be very exciting! But yeah, YMMV.
It's one career, where you start in the slowest cars and work your way through the content. The progression is like a Forza or GT where you are awarded bronze, silver or gold, and you 'unlock' the next series (but it is simply pulling from the content which is all available in the main menu from the start). It's a neat way to go through the content, and if you like the challenge of getting all the medals. There are also special events in a separate menu, which tend to be more interesting than the career anyway.
There's no built-in championship creator, but the system was designed so that the community could create their own without too much fuss. A career generator popped up a while ago, which you may be able to use to create the GT3 championship you describe: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/accg-assetto-corsa-career-generator.4191/
Or you might find one already made here: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/ac-career.60/
Thanks again, Betta! Looks great!
Big Takeover
Member
Haha, thanks!
Racing is by far my favorite genre, but I always felt that it was ok to play with a controller. Then a friend borrowed me an old Logitech Momo Racing Wheel some time ago and despite its limitations, it was great! Then I started to understand that playing with a pad was really limiting me driving certain types of cars. The problem is that even though I had the money to get a wheel, these things are expensive, specially here, and I don't swim in money and was dumb enough to pass a Driving Force GT when it was half the price I paid on this G27. I know the G27 is a superior product, but I regret not picking the DFGT back then. But, oh well, I guess some stores are getting rid of the G27, since it is discontinued, so I got one before they disappear. The G29 is on a ridiculous high price. I said hey, I want it, I can pay for it, so f*ck it! No bad thoughts. Enjoy, future me.
Betta Lines
Member
Nice one! The G27 is still a great set, and should be good for PC sims for years. Works great for AC in particular - I think Stefano still uses one for testing.
I have AC locked on my sights. The problem is that now that I have spent all this money on a wheel, I'll probably become a cheap bastard for some time, heh.
New Thrustmaster wheel confirmed Direct Drive by Kaz?
Wow. I guess it wouldn't be that crazy that a Playstation branded wheel sells for $800+ considering the original MSRP of the T500 was pretty close.
Wow. I guess it wouldn't be that crazy that a Playstation branded wheel sells for $800+ considering the original MSRP of the T500 was pretty close.
Zepp Twofist
Member
But, oh well, I guess some stores are getting rid of the G27, since it is discontinued, so I got one before they disappear. The G29 is on a ridiculous high price. I said hey, I want it, I can pay for it, so f*ck it! No bad thoughts. Enjoy, future me.
The G27 is the better choice. Included shifter with tons of buttons. Also, the software is more configurable.
Betta Lines
Member
But where is the quote? Sounds like BS to me.
marvelharvey
Member
Congrats! Careful with this addictive sim racing though. First it's a wheel, then it's brake-pedal mod, then some better pedals, then a gear shift and before you no it, you've spent more than your entire PC!
This month, I purchased a button box and LED rev/gear display to my setup and for the first time I decided to tot up my sim-hardware expenses over the past couple of years...
T500 RS Wheel - 60,000 yen
SimRacingHardware LED SLI display plate - 37,000 yen
TH8A Stick - 20,000 yen
Derrick Spears Button Box - 11,000 yen
Clubsport Pedals V2 - 35,000 yen
Folding Racing Stand - 25,000 yen
Gear Shift Mount = 8000 yen
Ultra Wide monitor - 38,000 yen
Total = 234000 yen/$2100/£1450. Damn, this hobby is so expensive :O Two year ago, all I had was a GT Force Pro!
I'm not sure I buy it either. The article writer seems convinced though. Despite the quote not actually using the phrase.
Could be something similar to their current offerings, and they're just using "direct drive" to describe it. Hope we find out at E3.
Big Takeover
Member
Don't ruin my weekend spirits by making me add all this stuff up! It reminds me of the how-to going around a few months ago on how to import your entire Amazon purchase history into a spread sheet. 1999-2016...big number!
I've redone my whole sim setup this year. PT-1s in a few weeks caps it, and that's it! I swear!!!
I've redone my whole sim setup this year. PT-1s in a few weeks caps it, and that's it! I swear!!!
Bwahaha! xD
Hmm, I didn't knew about the better software. Good to know.
I hope I won't have much problem messing with rotation degrees and such.
Haha, that probably won't happen until I cease being a big POS and get a grip on my life.Congrats! Careful with this addictive sim racing though. First it's a wheel, then it's brake-pedal mod, then some better pedals, then a gear shift and before you no it, you've spent more than your entire PC!
This month, I purchased a button box and LED rev/gear display to my setup and for the first time I decided to tot up my sim-hardware expenses over the past couple of years...
T500 RS Wheel - 60,000 yen
SimRacingHardware LED SLI display plate - 37,000 yen
TH8A Stick - 20,000 yen
Derrick Spears Button Box - 11,000 yen
Clubsport Pedals V2 - 35,000 yen
Folding Racing Stand - 25,000 yen
Gear Shift Mount = 8000 yen
Ultra Wide monitor - 38,000 yen
Total = 234000 yen/$2100/£1450. Damn, this hobby is so expensive :O Two year ago, all I had was a GT Force Pro!
Nice setup, that yours! =O