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PC Racing Sims
- Thread starter mclaren777
- Start date
marvelharvey
Member
You'll be amazed at how many people defend the 'manage mods' system on ISI forums.
TJP
Member
I feel for the people who buy rF2 and have no experience with rF as it's a very daunting task to install mods with very little guidance on what to do.
Good luck getting anyone from ISI to listen!
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
tbh I found it a lot easier than rF1 lol atleast I can just chuck everything in 'packages' in rF2
GAF has proven to me before people will defend anything. I wouldn't be surprised.
I get the impression they don't really give a shit about their game and are more interested in their business to business relationships. Don't they work with a lot of large racing teams?
tbh I found it a lot easier than rF1 lol atleast I can just chuck everything in 'packages' in rF2
That may well be the case but I'd much rather click subscribe on the steam workshop and have everything in a centralised location auto updating for me as and when it's released. Alas.
I get that impression as well. It's incredible seeing the difference in attitudes between ISI, SMS and Kunos. Honestly, I would've had them in that order for most professional/efficient development team to least, but the last 6 months or so have thrown that in completely the opposite direction (keep in mind my lack of experience with basically all three devs previous games... just going by impressions here).
What Kunos have done (and continue to do) is nothing short of astounding. For such a small team, IMO they've set an incredible benchmark for others to follow.
Edit: Found this while on RaceDepartment, may be of use to some GSC players with performance issues:
GSC 2013 Sparse Grid AA / fps drops / Solution
I know that Next Car Game isnt really a sim, but the genre has really been lacking the past gen in these types of racing games. Basically a next gen Descruction Derby. I really really hope they can get a solid game out so it sells well and we can get more of these. I really miss them. Looking at videos it has a lot of potential and good developers behind it so heres hoping.
TJP
Member
I think the early access version of NCG is brilliant fun as is the tech demo. Anyone who doesn't jump at the chance to buy into NCG at $25USD is crazy. BugBear are working with the community to build the game around player feedback.
TJP
Member
According to the rFactor Pro webpage, many F1 and NASCAR teams use ISI's software plus ISI have licencing deals with developers (e.g. SimBin and Reiza).
TJP
Member
Not on their F1 simulator that Kimi and Fernando use. A version of AC is running in the Ferrari museum apparently!
The Talk & Drive 9: Merry NSXmas! Try the Ring in the snow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ni41gLI_Cc
marvelharvey
Member
For those of you with a nogripracing.com account, their username/password database was stolen and blah blah blah, standard procedure. I think I may have used the same name/pw combo for Dominos Pizza, so I may be inundated with pizzas at any moment! Yummy.
Haha, I'm *really* loving his videos. His commentary is hilarious, I love guys who work in the sim-racing industry who are also publicly candid.
Edit: Holy shit. "Hi, do you might if I go out and kill myself while driving? Thanks!". Bahahaha.
Jesus. I like how they were proactive and decided to email everyone that the passwords were compromised. Or not.
Dont get me started on that...
Early this year I built a gaming PC specifically for PC racing sims. I was literally shocked at what passes for retail software on PCs. I ranted on forums about the state of PC racing sims, shocked that the community put up with such crap, mostly got flack back for suggesting that PC devs need to look to the console space for a wake up call.
It is hard to believe that in this day and age developers can get away with releasing something like rFactor 2. But what takes the cake is that they charge for online... All they provide for this yearly charge to play online is an online client that DOOM II wants back. There are no rooms, no friends lists, no game invites.. Just a list of servers with stupid names, some passworded. Then if you dare try to enter a room you are greeted with a mod check (because the game has no actual content, the devs make the users build that themselves). Of course this mod check will fail, it will then try to download the missing mods only to have that fail 99.9% of the time. From that point you have to remember the obscure name of the missing mod, search for it on the net, download it and hope its not the mod for rFactor 1 that has an identical name...
Its horrible and the sim racing community should be burning these guys at virtual stakes. And lets not even mention the other sims, some of which are actually unplayable with a wheel which is mind boggling.
AC should and probably will do this, especially now that they're so connected to Steam (their forum links accounts to Steam etc). That would be ideal, and will probably keep me interested in the game for the next 10 years.
The modding element is actually what keeps me away from rFactor (1) in the long run. I bought it years ago and it seems to get complicated for a beginner like myself who wants to have multiple mods. I actually just installed it again so I could be like Niels and drive the NSX in the snow at the Nurb.
marvelharvey
Member
I wish I could find the post on ISI's forums, but I remember one guy saying, without a hint of irony...
I dunno, maybe clicking on a Steam 'subscribe' button perhaps? Even finding the mod in the list can be a challenge as you'll download a file called classicf1.rfcmp, but in Mod Manager it's under the completely different name 'Barry's Mods - 70s formula one'. I love racing in RF2, I really do, the physics are second to none (yes, even AC)... it's just such a painful process to get to the track.
The subject of Steam came up on the forums a few days ago and it was shot down by pretty much everyone "Steam is spyware" "Steam take up too much CPU" "Say NO to Steam's DRM bullshit" and I shook my head in despair. The hardcore fans are willingly participating in their favourite game's demise.
I dunno, maybe clicking on a Steam 'subscribe' button perhaps? Even finding the mod in the list can be a challenge as you'll download a file called classicf1.rfcmp, but in Mod Manager it's under the completely different name 'Barry's Mods - 70s formula one'. I love racing in RF2, I really do, the physics are second to none (yes, even AC)... it's just such a painful process to get to the track.
The subject of Steam came up on the forums a few days ago and it was shot down by pretty much everyone "Steam is spyware" "Steam take up too much CPU" "Say NO to Steam's DRM bullshit" and I shook my head in despair. The hardcore fans are willingly participating in their favourite game's demise.
Do those people live in 2003? Steam has come a long way and has made small developers a fortune. With SteamOS and both AC and Project CARS using it they can no longer ignore it.
Edit: Kinda wished I hadn't visited that forum now. It's an insular circle jerk. I hope AC & Project CARS do wonderfully on steam so it gives ISI a kick up the arse.
Edit: Kinda wished I hadn't visited that forum now. It's an insular circle jerk. I hope AC & Project CARS do wonderfully on steam so it gives ISI a kick up the arse.
TJP
Member
Haha! I remember reading the exact same comments on Race Department when Kunos announced AC would be Steam only. Many people had meltdowns, including some fantastic tales of woe of 'losing everything' on their PC, all thanks to Steam.
Has no mentioned that AC is getting the first ever laser scanned version of the nordschleife in September? I can't believe so many people on FB were complaining about it. The racing sim community really disappointments me sometimes.
I can't get over how good the lighting is at times. Kunos did an amazing job with the graphics and physics. Here's a few of my shots downsampled from 4k.
Fullset: http://www.flickr.com/photos/15539352@N02/sets/72157638920256674/
I can't get over how good the lighting is at times. Kunos did an amazing job with the graphics and physics. Here's a few of my shots downsampled from 4k.
Fullset: http://www.flickr.com/photos/15539352@N02/sets/72157638920256674/
Their lighting still feels the most realistic to me of all the sims on PC. pCARS just comes off as being a little hyperreal at times. AC reminds me in that regard of GT5/6 I think... more subtle lighting that comes off looking more like real-life.
BTW Feels like we haven't seen sim screens for a while DD. Glad to have you back!
PS. I'm the same on the whole AC DLC thing. Doesn't make much sense to me, people probably comparing it to the FM5 DLC shenanigans.
BTW Feels like we haven't seen sim screens for a while DD. Glad to have you back!
PS. I'm the same on the whole AC DLC thing. Doesn't make much sense to me, people probably comparing it to the FM5 DLC shenanigans.
Why did they complain?
It's paid for DLC and it's scheduled for release some time in September 2014 for a game that still isn't finished. Probably something to do with that. I personally think it's fair enough for a track of that magnitude - and if the laser scanning is any good even more so. They'd have been better off keeping it under wraps.
Really no point in announcing it right now.
Anyway, for me personally what annoys me the most is not the whole "Paid DLC before the game is out" or whatever...it's the fact they are wasting time and money on doing the Nurb...again... I'm so tired of that track, I wish devs would actually spend time on tracks other than always the same 5-6 (Silverstone, Spa, Nurb, Laguna, etc).... There's so many amazing tracks around the world that get close to zero love in racing sims.
Guess what? They're doing it because WE asked for it:
Devs spending time on things we vote for? Perish the thought.
Guess what? They're doing it because WE asked for it:
Devs spending time on things we vote for? Perish the thought.
I know and I voted the day they opened the poll.... It doesn't change the fact I think working on the Nurb for almost a year is still a waste of ressource.
TJP
Member
We have talked about in the Assetto Corsa thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=711487
Fantastic screenshots too!
hey thanks guys. Oh yea I completely forgot there was a separate AC thread. Anyways in regards to the DLC it will not be available for preorder until after 1.0 is out. Also Stefano had this to say about the DLC and I would have to say I understand his frustration:
"Me, for one, don't give a rat's ass about the Ring.. never had, hardly ever will... but I have seen people in this company working for YEARS to get this license in the bag.. and there are more people that will lock themselves at their PCs for the next 6-7 months to actually get it done. Plus I have data from a poll that shows it is waaaay above anything else. So was it a BIG DEAL for KS? You bet IT WAS! Not a big deal for Luigi Gianni Vollaro? Look at all the fuck I give?
You want it? You buy it. You don't want it? Don't buy it. You want it cheaper? You preorder it. You want it but you don't want to buy it? Wait for the bloody crack.. just don't annoy people that are trying to enjoy this... it's THAT simple."
"Me, for one, don't give a rat's ass about the Ring.. never had, hardly ever will... but I have seen people in this company working for YEARS to get this license in the bag.. and there are more people that will lock themselves at their PCs for the next 6-7 months to actually get it done. Plus I have data from a poll that shows it is waaaay above anything else. So was it a BIG DEAL for KS? You bet IT WAS! Not a big deal for Luigi Gianni Vollaro? Look at all the fuck I give?
You want it? You buy it. You don't want it? Don't buy it. You want it cheaper? You preorder it. You want it but you don't want to buy it? Wait for the bloody crack.. just don't annoy people that are trying to enjoy this... it's THAT simple."
TJP
Member
Take your pick:
- AC isn't finished, fix the issues, add mutliplayer, night racing and weather and then talk about DLC.
- The track should be free because I bought the game already.
- Laser scanning the Nurburgring is a waste of resources.
- It's not the track I want/like and therefore it's a terrible addition.
- DLC content sucks, everything should be free.
- The physics are arcade, the cars have far too much grip and netKar Pro is a more hardcore sim with a better tyre model.
marvelharvey
Member
... plus Sebring, Suzuka and Barcelona.
Spookie touched on this subject in another thread, but I do feel sorry for the track artists at Polyphony, Turn 10, ISI, Kunos, Slightly Mad, SimBin, iRacing, Codemasters, Exotypos etc who spend their lives creating track geometry and textures, when there will be other artists 1000 miles away, trying to create the exact same track geometry and textures. Such a waste. (Reiza artists on the other hand don't have to worry about such an issue).
In an ideal world, all of those artists would work at a single company, creating a rich catalogue of different tracks and license them out to the developers. Because of the shared asset creation, devs would see their costs go down and the consumer would see a wider variety of circuits.
Yeah, I kind of assume that everyone who posts in this thread posts in the AC thread too
.
TJP
Member
I cannot say that I blame him for having that attitude. Marco posted something on Race Department too:
Hello everybody
I'm Marco Massarutto, Producer and Licensing Manager of Assetto Corsa. First of all, let me thank you for your kind support, that is the fuel that allows us to continue to do the job we love. Assetto Corsa has been welcomed in a way that exceeded our best expectations, and we'll thank you for this in the best way we can. If you will have a bit of patience.
Here I've read everything and its opposite. When I start to feel disappointed or sad for some comments, I force me to remember how I was at the times of Grand Prix 3, F1 Racing Simulation and so on when, being a gamer, I wasn't directly involved in this business. Therefore I can't get angry with you, because I understand that sometime it's easy to jump to conclusions when you can't know the facts but you can just imagine how they could be.
Therefore, for the first time, let me bring you behind the scenes. Would you like to follow me for few minutes? Let's go.
I'll go straight to the point, so please don't get me wrong, I will try just to explain our point of view in the simplest way.
- Lot of complains about additional contents are not so reasonable, for a simple reason: Assetto Corsa is moddable, and people who don't like to purchase additional contents, can make their favorite tracks and cars or wait that someone else produce a mod that they like to download. For free. Simple, clear, FAIR.
- Assetto Corsa 1.0 will include all the elements needed for a good and complete racing/gaming experience. We'll not force anyone to buy an additional feature or content that is needed to use the game. Nordschleife is not "needed", nor it has never been mentioned or scheduled as part of Assetto Corsa 1.0. I don't understand why to complain about DLC preorder before the availability of the full game, because this is just an unfair lie, not the truth: if I'm wrong please show me the pre-order button for Nordschleife.
- We must collect new licenses before the end of the year, in order to allocate the budget to pay the licensing rights and produce the contents, BEFORE THE TAXES. MORE TAXES, LESS CONTENTS. Simple, clair (not fair, but not depending by us). In addition, each car needs 8-10 weeks to be produced, an average track requires 3-5 months to be produced. That's why we program our production and communication activities (I'll be back on this matter later) with so much advance.
- "Kunos might use the resources needed for Nordschleife for other 2-3 tracks".
Now, just a short digression: I read something like "I'm bored to race on the same tracks in all games, I would prefer to race to some good, unknown and new tracks".
Let me ask you: if you were a developer, and you need to PAY a lot of money IN ADVANCE to create tracks for your game, would you choose those tracks that people knows and - you are sure enough- they will like, or would you bet to invest for contents that are unknown for 80% of your potential audience? Because the matter isn't "In a perfect world I would like to", but "ok, I will risk a LOT of money here: what I will do?"
Yes, because the truth that a lot of people don't know, is that when we talk about licensing rights, royalties and fee to pay, all this money is required to be paid in ADVANCE, BEFORE the game is released, and it doesn't matter if the game sells or not. Money paid, is gone. Even if a licensing agreement is based on a royalty on sales, you must pay an advance minimum guarantee that usually already covers large part of the total royalties forecasted. Now, let's multiply this operation for 36 cars (mmh wait, 36? I knew cars of 1.0 were 35...
Said that:
1. We asked to people about the track they would like to have in AC, Nordschleife has been the most voted track: easy, clear, fair. If you voted for something else, I'm sorry but as developer I must keep my company on the market and I must hear the masses: considering that we make simulations and not arcade games, we have already showed to love the simracing community and we don't have to demonstrate it again each time we do something new. So: 90% voted for Nordschleife and 1% for your favorite one? Sorry pal, see you next time.
"Kunos might use the resources needed for Nordschleife for other 2-3 tracks"
2. People who say the statement above does know the REAL costs involved? Or it's just an estimation based on Kms? Let me tell you that some track companies asked for their license 3 times the amount needed for Nordschleife. If I tell you which tracks I'm talking about, you will never believe me, or you will and you start to laugh for hours.
3. WIth other tracks, the cost asked to rent the circuit for the survey is bigger than how we'll spend for Nordschleife. I can continue for hours, if you like.
Said that, Why a so big announcement about the Nordschleife? Well, where to start..some thousands of people who were at Nordschleife last saturday to save the Ring might answer you. Our answer is: for thousands of race enthusiasts all around the world, this is THE track: maybe YOU who are reading don't like the Nordschleife and no one can criticize you for that. Does everyone like Ferrari? Lamborghini? Monza? No.
But our huge announcement about Nordschleife is for all THOSE thousands of people in the world WHO love it, for all those people who, since when we announced Assetto Corsa in 2011 showing that the tracks included were based on LS technology, started to ask to us about the inclusion of Nordschleife every day.
For all of them, the Nordschleife laserscan based IN Assetto Corsa, is THE news. And that's enough for us.
It's like when we announced the Ferrari license and some commented "Ferrari license? Meh, who cares, I like "X"". Well, let me reveal you a secret: the announce isn't for YOU: is for all those people who like Ferraris.
About our marketing strategy and communication:
We don't have a publisher: we are our publisher. Usually, for each Eur spent for the game production, a publisher invests 5 Eur in advertsing. During that development of AC we could not do it. Why? Because if we had spent 5 times in advertising rather than in contents, there would be no contents.
And, as surely you understand, you can make the best product in the world (in general, I'm not talking about AC), but if nobody knows it, you will sell some items to your parents, you uncles, friends, then you close, buy a newspaper and look for job announcements.
How an indipendent company with low resources can make a game like AC and let people to know it without advertising? In 2 words: quality (as best as we can) and communication. At international Auto Expos, Car brands present and show models that will be available 1 or 2 years later. We are not more or less smart the BMW, Mercedes-Benz or any other.
Communication is our strategy, to keep our resources to develop contents instead of banners: you can't find Assetto Corsa advertsing on the internet but a lot of people talk about it. On Facebook, Youtube, and so on. You find videos that compare a game made by 10 people with Gran Turismo 6 and Forza 5, made by companies with budget and resources hundreds of times bigger than KUNOS. Yes, it looks to me that our strategy works fine.
Now, tell me: do you prefer that in 2014, after 1.0 release, KUNOS invests in new contents or in advertsing? Advertsing might be much better for us, let me tell you why:
1. we pay and other people make the job: the game is done, we advertise and enjoy our earnings
2. spending the same money, we reach much more people than with the Nordschleife and 10 additional cars
3. I don't have to spend for production of contents, releases, nor I have to invest money and time in betatesting, manpower and so on
4. Crossed arms, we enjoy our earnings and let the modders do their job.
5. I spend in advertsing today, I will see results in 10 days instead of in 10 weeks or more (contents)
Please note: it's not a threat nor a blackmail. It's a list of available and realistic options.
Now, let me tell you why we want to stay focused on contents rather than in advertsing: because AC is our life. We have done it for ourself and to share what we love with as much as people as possible, and not JUST to make money: if we just wanted to make money, you wouldn't have Ferraris in the game and we'll keep much money in our pockets. AC is AC with or without Ferraris, exactly how iRacing doesn't need Ferrari to be a value sim.
But, and now probably I will shock someone, we need money. YES: I MUST CONFESS and I apologise for that but, as well as 7 other billions of people, we need money for living.
The concept is very simple: without netKar PRO, FVA wouldn't exist. Without FVA, AC wouldn't exist. And, without the mistakes made with netKar PRO, Assetto Corsa wouldn't be so appreciated. And the best is yet to come.
So, at the end: when you don't like a news, an announcement, a feature, a drag race, a car brand, you are absolutely welcome. We are already happy for the simple fact that you might take Assetto Corsa in consideration: but, when you don't like or understand a feature or a content, don't waste too much time to complain for that, because that feature or content maybe is not for you: but for other thousands of people out there.
On our side, we can only continue to do our best: sometime we'll get right, sometime we'll get wrong. But I leave you with these clues:
2011 - "Featuring that kind of graphics, no way for AC to be a simulation"
2012 - "Featuring that kind of licenses, no way for AC to be a simulation" (2012)
2012 - "Featuring the Ferrari license, they must sell milions copies, so let's forget that AC will be a simulation"
2013 - "What I said? AC is an arcade, now it's clear".(after the release of the 458 GT2 video)
2013 - "They will not release nothing this year, typical italian style"
2013 - "They don't release official footage because their screenshots are photoshopped"
2013 - "They had released just the 458, the other Ferrari will be released as DLC, I'm pretty sure about it"
2013 - "No way that they will get the Nordschleife license and that it will be laserscanned"
Now I'm ready to collect other funny stuff on December 31.
Thank you guys, your support is very, very appreciated: we would like to organize a party when we'll go to Nordschleife next Spring and we would love to meet you there, having fun, some laps and then (but only then
HAVE FUN!
Hah, can't argue with that!
FWIW Main reason I voted for it was because it's a big track and I like driving... and to have a definitive version would be great. And I wasn't familiar with most of the other tracks :/
marvelharvey
Member
Off topic, but who is Luigi Gianni Vollaro? I googled the name, but the top search result was this page :lol. Is he the Italian equivalent of Mr Smith/Jon Doe?
OMG... I actually did try this game just now...Do you work for them or something? Everything in GSC is terrible! I dont know where to start really... And the physics.. those horrible physics. On par with Asetto Corsa? Were you high?
There is just nothing positive I can say about this game. It is delivered via a dodgy website requiring you to download 4 files like its 1999. Get it running and and the menus are the kind of quality of design you get from your average high school web design assignment. Then you you are hit with those shoddy graphics but that could be somewhat forgiven if the driving experience was at least average, but its not. Driving the street car (once you back out of the game and have figured out how to mess with the settings to make the wheel not turn violently by itself.. omg.) feels nothing at all like driving a car, and it take about 100 meters to stop with no feedback at all. I had to actually check the input displays to make sure my brake pedal was actually being picked up. Then there is the touring car with its funky suspension strangely bouncing and swaying yet also at other times very stiff.
Sorry but this game does not cut it. There is a part of me that wants to cut small time devs some slack but the truth is that they should not start something when they know full well they can not deliver and charging for it is just taking the piss.
Oh boy.
Though you do make a legit point with the distribution of the game. I've already asked if GSC2014 would ever be considered for steam and got shot down by Race Department owners. They would no doubt see a large drop in their ad revenue from it going to steam, so no surprises they are against it. Fuck everyone else as long as you're getting yours though right?
Just so you know: the game is based on the rFactor engine which is almost as old as the dinosaurs at this point. Which means there is always going to be a significant barrier to how approachable the game is going to be. It's also missing recent innovations in lighting and other graphical features but they chose to use the engine they are most familiar with. That being said if they don't change it up for 2014 I won't be buying the next iteration. AC and Project CARS have set a much higher bar now and phoning it in won't be cutting it in 2014 imo.
marvelharvey
Member
I believe they're dropping the old rFactor engine and building their own for GSC 2014.
AzureSkies
Member
crazepharmacist
Member
So someone just told me if you register for this you get a free 3 month subacription to Iracing. https://cadillaccupracing.com/
I just did it and they sent me a code to my email. I'll try it when I get home from work but pretty damn awesome if it works.
I just did it and they sent me a code to my email. I'll try it when I get home from work but pretty damn awesome if it works.
Thank Christ. No doubt it'll be derivative of rFactor since their physics guy has such a love for it. Though I'm thankful for anything other than the current engine they have.
Personally, I'd love to see them do something with the AC engine. Niels from Reiza has some positive things to say about it! Would likely mean that GSC would be more a paid-mod than a TC like it is now, but whatever. If it makes it better, it makes it better