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PC Racing Sims
- Thread starter mclaren777
- Start date
TJP
Member
Try this link: https://www.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp?contractId=3204840 as it's the current special for GSC and Formula Truck bundle valid until the 31st of December. You'll get Game Stock Car 2013 and Formula Truck for nearly the same cost as GSC 2013. Truck racing is a lot of fun too as Big Takeover's gif shows:Im an old simracing-fan, (did lots of racing in Grand Prix Legends, Nascar 2003, Live For Speed etc), and i want to go back to this racing after lots of years
That game stock racing 2013 could maybe be something for me?.
Is this the official buy site? https://www.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp
Make sure to check out the car and track listing for GSC 2013: http://game-stockcar.com.br/?lang=en#info
Assetto Corsa is worth checking out (although it is an early access build which means it's incomplete so no AI, multiplayer at this point in it's development), as is rFactor 2 specifically for the old F1 cars and a 3 month free trial of iRacing.
Assetto Corsa video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XWcHJfNDRo
rFactor 2 video (very old build): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9lqpqpeDI8
If you go through the proper GSC website (I think it's www.gamestockcar.co.br or something?) I believe the transaction happens on the page you linked, but I think that's only a service provider... they don't actually sell it on there.Im an old simracing-fan, (did lots of racing in Grand Prix Legends, Nascar 2003, Live For Speed etc), and i want to go back to this racing after lots of years
That game stock racing 2013 could maybe be something for me?.
Is this the official buy site? https://www.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp
Try this link: https://www.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp?contractId=3204840 as it's the current special for GSC and Formula Truck bundle valid until the 31st of December. You'll get Game Stock Car 2013 and Formula Truck for nearly the same cost as GSC 2013. Truck racing is a lot of fun too as Big Takeover's gif shows:
Thanks!, remeber a Truck-racing game i really enjoyed back in those days, so i bought this bundle
Now off to set it all up with wheels and stuff Lol, i was a bit too fast here, gotta download 5,1GB first ;-)
TJP
Member
Ha! I barely twisted your arm to get you to buy it..unlike Shaneus 8-PThanks!, remeber a Truck-racing game i really enjoyed back in those days, so i bought this bundle
Lol, i was a bit too fast here, gotta download 5,1GB first ;-)
Official forums are:
GSC 2013: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/forums/game-stock-car-2013.77/
Formula Truck: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/forums/formula-truck-2013.149/
Important news regarding GSC 2013 support going forward: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum...rs-more-tracks-more-features-coming-up.78419/
Welcome to the PC sim racing thread too; hopefully you'll stick around as we tend to like everything sim racing here be it on PC or console.
how safe is simplycdkeys.com?.. they have F1 2013 for 6.99 now.. seems too cheap to be real?
I mean.. Steam takes 20 pounds more for the same :/
They are part of Simplygames. Bought several games digitally, have never had a problem with them.
Thanks for the reply!.. just ordered this game
Looks really fun with the classics F1-package I have the same setup but with the original CSP Pedals instead so I have no idea about those pedals....other than that then yeah I would say jump on it! It's an amazing wheel and you get 360 compat too in case you want to play Forza.
Big Takeover
Member
Even if you get no takers, just know the post was worth your while for the laughs!
Poor 2CVs
I see maybe one a year as they were never officially sold in the US. To me it's a rare beast! I saw as many 2CVs as I did 288 GTOs this year... One of each.I really wish they would upgrade junior accounts for Project CARS. It's bloody frustrating not being able to drive any of the new cars.
shit isnt it :/ cant even drive the nurb either
Should I go for GSC2013?
I have 2012 and enjoyed it. I bought rFactor 2 afterwards and GSC hasn't had much attention since.
Main difference between those two is that the car feels far more involved at the front end in rF2 compared to GSC but, in GSC, I can drive much harder. If you have both, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
Presumably, GSC 2013 will be more of the same, but are there any significant changes to handling/feedback?
I'm not that bothered about FTruck but it's nice to have.
What do you reckon?
EDIT: I am downloading the demo but it'll probably take another day at this rate.
I have 2012 and enjoyed it. I bought rFactor 2 afterwards and GSC hasn't had much attention since.
Main difference between those two is that the car feels far more involved at the front end in rF2 compared to GSC but, in GSC, I can drive much harder. If you have both, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
Presumably, GSC 2013 will be more of the same, but are there any significant changes to handling/feedback?
I'm not that bothered about FTruck but it's nice to have.
What do you reckon?
EDIT: I am downloading the demo but it'll probably take another day at this rate.
Mmmm, nope. Would be up for a RWYB day with Gaffers though.
As an aside I don't like 2cvs, hideous beasts!
TJP
Member
Do they have those covers anywhere for download as a PDF or something? Be a great idea for people who couldn't get boxed copies... even if they're not in English.
I wonder if that sort of thing would have the same appeal over there as a generic DVD cover with "V8 Supercars Simulator" would over here? I guess you drop it in a place like Supercheap Auto, slap $20 and you'd sell quite a few!
TJP
Member
Reiza posted the covers on their FB page. I think an e-mail to Reiza would net you a pdf version.
Big Takeover
Member
Betta Lines
Member
Alright nasanu, I don't think you are troll, but I do think you have an attitude problem. The only person who seems to be 100% confident on anything is you. Most guys on here enjoy a wide range of sims, but as we're not directly connected to any of the studios (or at least, most of us aren't - no doubt there are some stealthy developer accounts here), we're not sure that AC, GSC or any other sim is 100% realistic because we don't have the data (and by that I mean being able to compare the real data to what the simulation is doing under the hood). However, there is a general consensus that both feel very good, without too many glaring inaccuracies to spoil our fun.
However, you make ridiculously confident statements about GT5's suspension modelling, and recently in this thread regarding GSC vs AC "they are both very, very different in their suspension models." What information are you basing this on? I don't think Polyphony has ever revealed what goes into the suspension modelling in their sim, Kunos are fairly secretive too - only with GSC can we make a few assumptions as it is based on the most widely-used engine in all sim racing, and Niels has been quite candid about the way he uses the engine, but even then we don't know exactly what is going on in the Reiza sim either.
So I assume you come up with these statements based on how the suspension appears visually - something that is often very different to the physics simulation. I have described this to you before - the ISI engine is well known to be fairly low fidelity when it comes to visually representing the suspension animation. But in terms of what is running through the physics in realtime, I haven't seen any reason to believe GSC is modelling the suspension in a different/inferior way to AC - so please explain if you have some information that suggests otherwise, beyond AC looking like it moves better (which I think we can all agree on). Both ISImotor and AC's engine support all common suspension types. If we assume that both Niels and Aris are using them in the correct manner with the correct data, it is quite possible that the suspension models in GSC and AC are very similar. I wouldn't be surprised that if they were to model the same car in their respective sims, the suspension model would end up being almost identical in behaviour, it would just animate better in AC. It is also widely documented that ISImotor's physics updates at 400Hz, whereas AC is apparently 333Hz, so while AC's suspension movement might look like there is more going on, GSC is still very competitive in the speed of the underlying simulation and may even have a slight advantage.
I just tried it, I'm locking up everywhere in that car so I'm not sure what you were doing wrong. Bear in mind that brake temperature is modelled, and it takes a while for racing brakes to reach optimal performance. Put some heat into them for a few laps and then try again. (I can lock up immediately on an outlap though, so this shouldn't be necessary. Also you'd be heating your tyres at the same time so they'll become grippier and harder to lock after a few laps too.)
As for your complaints about wheel presets and the UI, it is something that many of us are used to - GSC is no different to any other ISImotor sim from the last 10 years in this regard. The T500 preset is indeed totally wrong, but I've always configured my own controls in every sim - I don't know a single sim that has a preset that just works without some manual configuration. It sucks, but you were expecting too much there. It takes me ages to set up GSC, but it's worth it - it's one of the best feeling sims for a T500. There is a lot of documentation on setting up ISI sims out there, and Reiza are pretty good at explaining things in their own documentation, but it should be all handled within the UI these days, and sadly GSC is as unclear as ever. I guess it's a limitation of the engine because the UI is the same every damn time, just constantly being reskinned.
A few things for you to check:
- FFB Low (this doesn't mean low quality, it is the 'pure' setting, with no 'canned' effects that you get in the higher settings)
- in the controller.ini file, change the wheel rotation to 900 (assuming your T500 is set to 900)
- change the steering lock to 30 in 'Garage1' (you have to do this every time for every car, or save the car setup and load it each time) - the combination of 900 in the .ini and 30 on the steering lock should match the in-game wheel rotation 1-to-1 with your wheel. Reiza have gone into detail about certain cars that should have less rotation than 900, so if you want to be really accurate about it you'd have to change that in the Thrustmaster settings as well for each car, but I find it's okay to stick to 900 for most cars as long as the lock is at 30.
- go to 'controller 2' and turn down the head movement to about 20% - default is 75% and it seems way too crazy to me. Some people like it, but a lower setting makes the head movement look more like other sims.
I see you dug yourself out of a hole and then fell right into a new one. 'It's never going to be a professional piece of software' - do you mean it's not for professional driver training, or it's not a 'professional' release? Either way I don't understand what you mean.nasanu said:
Some people probably think I'm wasting my time here, but I hope you can give it a proper chance with the proper settings. Visuals and UI aside, it's a fantastic sim well worth the asking price, and you'll be leaving with the wrong impression if you dismiss it after such a short test - 10 minutes is barely enough time to get your 'eye' in, particularly if your settings weren't optimal, let alone reach any valid opinions on the depth of the simulation.
TJP
Member
For the record, Reiza suggest the following:
The last part about manually adjusting the steering wheel range is only relevent if you select to view the virtual steering wheel. Further it is a limitation of the way in which ISI coded their sofware and not an oversight by Reiza or anyone else who uses ISImotor.
- realistic steering ratio is acheived by setting the wheel rotation to 540 degrees and a steering lock (located in the in-game garage Menu) around 20-22 degrees. These settings should work well for all race cars except for the karts.
- Karts demand a steering rotation set to 180-220º
- Road cars should have a steering rotation of 900º and steering lock of approx 37º
- Make sure to also update the steering wheel range= parameter accordingly in your profile´s controller.ini inside USERDATA\(your name) folder, so that the in-game wheel rotation matches that of your controller
The last part about manually adjusting the steering wheel range is only relevent if you select to view the virtual steering wheel. Further it is a limitation of the way in which ISI coded their sofware and not an oversight by Reiza or anyone else who uses ISImotor.
Big Takeover
Member
Those are some lovely shots. I haven't even taken a single one yet. I really need to get on that.
What I meant by the AC vs GSC comparison was not the technical model they are working with, there is no way to tell that, but the simple way the car interacts with the track and responds to inputs. Now I can't play GSC anymore as the demo expired, and I think my initial install was a bit messed up (which you can see from the picture I took of the formula car, there was no way to drive it at all). When I did the re-install I didn't have much time left and spent in mainly in the mini. Just talking about the physics in isolation it did feel quite good, actually felt a lot like rFactor 2 when in the mini. But in the stock car touring car (what every those Brazilian tintops are called) the suspension was hard at times but also floaty when driving in a straight line. It seems like the track is full of little gentle bumps but I know the F1 track is not like that. It is either bad suspension programming or a canned effect to make it seem more realistic (because many believe that a shaky cam = realistic). Either way when the car is bouncing around like a low rider on one section of track but then cornering like it has racing suspension on another, it just doesn't feel right.
I would like to spend more time with it just to evaluate the physics more, but I already know I would not spend money on this game. There are many games with physics so good they are approaching reality. Many years ago we reached the point that you had to drive in a 100% realistic manner even if the physics were not a 100% match for reality. This is where my comment about it not being professional comes in. I don't think it is acceptable for developers to release just a game engine and charge for it. They should provide a proper game. Menus should make sense, online should be easy and logical. There is just no excuse for the amateur crap that passes for UX in the vast majority of PC racing sims. They would only have to spend less than $1000 to hire any half competent web designer to make then a good functional UI for example. But it is obvious programmers design them grudgingly in between what they consider their real work. And you just know that to get any decent races in something like GSC you will have to hunt down leagues run in forums requiring certain mods run at certain times of the day on passworded servers... While this crap is not only accepted but actively defended by the sim racing community nothing will change and the player base for these games will continue to stagnate. Why on earth would the average race fan go through all that crap to get into a race when they could just pop a disc into a console? They don't. That is why when last night I wanted to race rFactor 2 and a grand total of 7 people world wide were playing. You give a pass to devs like Reisa or whoever they are but you don't realise you have to be cruel to be kind. You are handing them the gun they use to shoot themselves in the foot. IF players demanded a professional level of quality maybe the devs would provide it. If I could load up GSC, have it auto detect my wheel and load the proper settings (and come on, this is F**KING EASY TO DO, same with the graphics settings) then let me search for online races and just join one, how many more people would be buying this game?... But no, you will continue to praise the game, the devs will continue to deliver shit and nothing will change.
Now you keep talking about the GT5 suspension comment, I think I am 100% right. I am talking about suspension ONLY. People can't seem to grasp this. Most PC sims never had decent suspension models, why do you think people were so wowed when the videos of AC first emerged? Because for the very first time they saw cars moving on their suspension in a realistic manner. GT5 had problems with tyres, drivetrain, collisions and many other things, but when the physics patch was released the suspension came alive. All the other things were not fixed and the suspension was not nearly as good as GT6 or AC are now, but it was still ahead of the game at the time.
uhhh AC is definitely not the first time pc sims have had good looking suspension. You continue to talk about the visual aspect of the suspension while ignoring that the code and physics in regards to suspension in rfactor may be fine but that it just does not come across in the visuals. You have not been able to identify one thing that is wrong with the suspension in GSC 2013. You just think the stock cars are wrong but don't know anything about them. How do you know that's not exactly how they feel in real life? Why would the real life stock car drivers who train with the game say it feels extremely real if the suspension model is poor or wrong? You continue to make broad and final statements about a game that you did not even get to probably play for more than 5-10 minutes. GSC 2013 has fantastic AI, physics, and ffb and it took me all of five minutes to set it up. Check out what your're missing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5IospugD8g
What other pc sims have had poor suspension models? You keep saying "PC sims" but don't name anything. Makes you come off like a console fanboy that just likes to shit talk the PC. Which other games, besides AC, are approaching reality in terms of physics in your opinion? Also RBR was on the PC in 2004 so I think we know what good suspension "looks" and feels like" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOAmlobgckk
The problem with most of your posts on here is that you state a lot of strong opinions without providing any any specific data, facts, or experience to back them up. It just comes across as someone with a bad attitude who thinks they know better than 99% of the PC sim community.
What other pc sims have had poor suspension models? You keep saying "PC sims" but don't name anything. Makes you come off like a console fanboy that just likes to shit talk the PC. Which other games, besides AC, are approaching reality in terms of physics in your opinion? Also RBR was on the PC in 2004 so I think we know what good suspension "looks" and feels like" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOAmlobgckk
The problem with most of your posts on here is that you state a lot of strong opinions without providing any any specific data, facts, or experience to back them up. It just comes across as someone with a bad attitude who thinks they know better than 99% of the PC sim community.
You realise that absolutely nobody has given any 'data' here at all. What do you expect to be provided? You summed up what you are when you said 'we know'. That said so much about you. As for the RBR video, take a look at this moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HOAmlobgckk#t=67
There is about zero side to side weight transfer. But why show me a video anyway? According to you the physics model is decoupled from the graphics geometry. Of course you are wrong about that. Unless the coders are doing something very strange, tyre contact with the road visually should mean tyre contact in the physics calculations also. Same with spring compressing and its visible effects.
And you keep bringing out the classic fanboy dribble. Real racing drivers played it and said it was da bomb!!!! So? Go on, quote laser scanned tracks at me next. Opinions, especially ones in promotional spiel are bought. Rubens is very clearly being paid to promote the game, just like iRacing pays NASCAR/V8 Supercar teams (and some of the nascar teams have gone as far as calling themselves race team marketing companies, I can dig up a press release from a team if you like ). Plus, sometimes drivers play games because... They are actually people if you didn't know, they like fun also. It means nothing. I am pretty sure most nascar drivers have played Daytona USA...
And please, before you go spouting rubbish questions at me, ask them to yourself first. How do you know the game is real if you yourself have not driven a Brazilian stock car? Where is your data backing up your claims of realism? Such stupid questions.
eh i posted this on the last page and you quoted it but choose to ignore it.
http://www.virtualr.net/wp-content/gallery/3496/221520_10151126097602743_1210099457_o.jpg
This discussion is obviously pointless though. Have fun with GT 6, or whatever you think is so good.
Betta Lines
Member
These bumps are likely to have been exaggerated by the head movement that I mentioned is set at quite a high level compared to other sims.
It's fair enough to complain about these things, but GSC2013 is simply another in a long line of sims that has configuration problems and unclear UIs - it is certainly not alone. It would be great if all sims just worked out of the box, but none of them do. iRacing, AC and PCARS have fairly intuitive 'wizards' to help set up the controller, but they all require tweaking after the fact and stuff still doesn't work. There are configuration problems we could complain about in every sim - no need to lay it all on Reiza.
So again, you're talking about the visuals. I have explained it twice now and yet you insist that PC sims don't have decent suspension models. The models have been very decent for many years, but only recently in AC has the animation fidelity begun to represent the physics calculations. Even in AC, what you see is not what the physics engine is calculating. It's closer, but there is still some fidelity lost in the animation. I will ask you again - please provide your information that shows that the suspension model is fundamentally different in GSC compared to AC, and that Polyphony's model is the only one that compares to AC as well. Stop talking about the visuals. We all know that AC's suspension movement looks lovely. We are talking about physics. If you can't provide this information, STOP talking about which has the superior suspension modelling. Every time you say it, it sounds like you have some critical piece of information that we're all missing.
I don't think he's basing his arguments off of visual evidence, merely his own account of what 'good suspension physics' are supposed to feel like. Except that his 'account' is likely being blurred by heavy confirmation bias. This is something that goes on all too often with racing sim fans, although this is the first time I think I've heard somebody try and stretch things to say that Gran Turismo actually has better suspension physics than all PC sims(which is pretty ridiculous).
TJP
Member
thesuperfunk
Member
Not looking good for the Senna sim then ...
BooNot looking good for the Senna sim then ...
That sucks. Love to know the intricacies behind what happened with that... GT6 coming out with all that stuff makes me feel that either Polyphony moneyhatted or the institute just felt that a small Senna nod in a big game is better than a big Senna nod in a game by a smaller developer.
Although having said that... this:
TJP
Member
There isn't a PC sim that can match the number of cars that the really well funded console sims (Forza & GT) have; most PC sims are made by very small independent development teams who lack the budgets of the well known console dev teams. Many PC sim have well under 30 licenced cars and most will be racing cars and not road cars.
What you probably need to ask is what sims have the types of cars I like to drive 8)
TJP
Member
That is excellent news! Great for PS3 owners to have a product using an official Senna licence and it's the same for PC sim fans.
Perhaps the delay comes from a difficulty to obtain specific vehicle licences from Lotus, McLaren and Williams (as examples; I've no idea what the hold up may be). Perhaps these are more difficult or expensive to obtain that Reiza thought?
Big Takeover
Member
First get a clue about how games are programed. Where do you think the data the physics engine works with comes from? Just take even the most brief moment to think things through. If the physics model is disconnected from the visual geometry then how do they calculate things like car collisions and the basic interactions with the track? The wireframe polygon models and the physics engine go hand in hand. Also if the physics and the motion of the car is unrelated, why have past sims never just added realistic looking car animations? Should be easy enough to do, although stupid since you have have to do all these other calculations rather than just linking the results of physics calculations to animation...
Anyway read over what you wrote then ask all the questions to yourself in reverse.
Most sims, including rfactor limit the animations during the replay in order to generate a replay file that is a reasonable size. The only way to see the full animations is to watch the car as you drive in real time from a track cam like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3plq8UiIrU
So judging the suspension from a replay is not an accurate way to judge the suspension and the underlying physics at all because it is NOT full fidelity.
Also I've watched Project Cars being developed since the very beginning and just now(two years later) are some of the cars getting their suspension animations added. The underlying physics and feel of the suspension has been the same you just couldn't see anything. If you took your approach and looked at the replays you would have said the cars did not even have a suspension model.
I have a big problem with car-sims these days. Im used to the old 270degree wheels for the PC which works great.
Today i have 900degree lock.
I've been racing karts in my youth, and having 900degrees lock on the wheel really puts me off, since its so far from reality its not even funny
Is there some way to turn this off?
I have the Logitech Driving Force-wheel.
Today i have 900degree lock.
I've been racing karts in my youth, and having 900degrees lock on the wheel really puts me off, since its so far from reality its not even funny
Is there some way to turn this off?
I have the Logitech Driving Force-wheel.
I have a big problem with car-sims these days. Im used to the old 270degree wheels for the PC which works great.
Today i have 900degree lock.
I've been racing karts in my youth, and having 900degrees lock on the wheel really puts me off, since its so far from reality its not even funny
Is there some way to turn this off?
I have the Logitech Driving Force-wheel.
Can't you set wheel to 270 on the wheel settings control panel on your pc? Most wheels allow this.
I have a big problem with car-sims these days. Im used to the old 270degree wheels for the PC which works great.
Today i have 900degree lock.
I've been racing karts in my youth, and having 900degrees lock on the wheel really puts me off, since its so far from reality its not even funny
Is there some way to turn this off?
I have the Logitech Driving Force-wheel.
You should be able to get the drivers here http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/support/game-gear
and that package lets you change global or game specific settings for the wheel. It uses force feedback and tension in a way that you will notice when you are at the adjusted lock.
Speaking of suspension: I was trying to work out why there was a Curitiba 1 & 2 on GSC2013. I found out it's due to the quality of the track. Holy Christ on a bike, I was huffing it down the straight and as I was breaking before the first chicane the suspension became so unsettled from the bumps it flat out spun the car 360. I don't think that's ever happened before on any other sim! :s
Im not sure what im supposed to change in this program :/ But i fiddled with the settings in GSC2013 and had a good compromise. And oh my good, my hands are all sweaty after the first formula classic race
soo much fun!Im not sure what im supposed to change in this program :/ But i fiddled with the settings in GSC2013 and had a good compromise. And oh my good, my hands are all sweaty after the first formula classic race
Make sure the logitech software is running and then select "options" and "global device settings". Shoud look like this: http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3484/60274199.png
Don't use those settings though. Centering spring strength should be at zero and for GSC change the wheel rotation to 540. Then in game right before you race go to garage 1 and change the steering lock to 22 or 24, or higher if you want. For the open wheel cars you could turn the lock up to 30 or so. If does not save though so you have to change it every time.
WTF are you talking about replays for? And I'd love to see evidence of this 'limiting of animation' you speak of. Sounds insane, replay file sizes are already tiny because they do not record anything to do with animation. The animation gets recreated by the game engine when you run the replay, it is not IN the replay...
And also I'd love to see some footage of the project cars cars without suspension. Can you provide it? But that is just because I am curious, it has nothing to do with what I said earlier. You are trying to say that I said physics comes from animation which is the only thing such a video could disprove. What I very clearly said is that animation comes from physics.
Can you start thinking before you post?