PCs are better than consoles argument tree

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You are quite naive if you believe most people dump their own BIOS (and discs).

Also, emulators take a long time to work correctly and only provide a good experience with appropriate hardware.

That doesn't mate emulators illegal though.

Anyway, some emulators are really damn good and doesn't take much to work well. Last time I tried a ps2 emulator it was certainly completely painless, and managed to make the game look respectable as well.
 
Lived together for 8 years now. I can't ever remember any conflict. I guess I just haven't wanted to do anything that she considers unreasonable. Sure, she wouldn't want me to set fire to the carpet but I wouldn't want to in the first place.

Also you said "even if I could talk her into it". Sounds like you would have to, you know, talk her into it.

Yep, I probably would, for the same reason I said I actually wouldn't want to do it: It would be ugly and totally out of place. I would have to talk her into that because she's a smart girl with good taste who doesn't just go along with everything even if it's a stupid idea.

Like I said: If the only potential conflict you could ever have with your wife is whether or not you should set fire to the carpet, your situation isn't just lucky, it's downright miraculous.
 
Lets rip apart more comfy couch BS.....

Based on your faulty assertions I'd say no and considering it's a growing market not shrinking you're even more dead wrong. Consoles really aren't all that plug and play in certain areas or if you consider certain facts They have considerable bootup and loadup time compared to decent pcs with SSD. Switching games is harder than on the pc, not only that you can't multitask certain games at once.

There are distinct benefits to pc or console people value different ones. Who cares what the masses think since when did this argument become about the masses?

So consoles are not plug and play because the bootup time is higher than on an SSD and switching games is 'harder' than on pc? Euhm ok, sure.
 
Pc might have all the graphics, resolution and fps advantages, but it has no games I'd like to play; therefore, consoles > Pc for me all day, everyday.

I get this argument that you like what you like and you go where those games are but at the same time it boggles my mind. There's no games in the breadth of the PC catalog of interest? I just find it hard to believe.

I'm not disparaging your taste or anything, I just can't relate.
 
Boot time and multi tasking are not related to plug and play. Also some PC games are still released on disc since the whole world doesn't have great unlimited internet access.

If we are talking convenience bootup time and loadup time are most certainly part of the plug and play debate which has become more nuanced the last two gens alone.

Why should do I deal with a mandatory patch or install when I can preload and be playing in much quicker time. If you're going to use the plug and play argument it can and will be crushed. Overtime a pc player once a game is installed or even in situations of an install will spend less time getting in to the game and then playing than a console gamer will on a decent spec machine. If you're arguing convenience your side loses in this area. All consoles players are literally arguing these days is they don't want to click one or two things when an install process comes up which it can and will for a lot of their big titles even exclusive to consoles. Still gotta wait before you play the game so what are you really arguing at this point.

Real Madrid I never said console games weren't plug and play the last post just shredded the covenience of it vs a pc in certain areas. If the argument is you can play games quicker I'm only showing for some of us that's not the case and hasn't been for sometime. Does this mean you other gamers will enjoy it or have the opportunity, no but the point isn't about frequency or popularity rather potential when you got it.

Murica don't really have to care about the world nor am I required too when presenting my pc exprience especially if its on internet options. Sure others don't have same options but the same applies for consoles and not getting every game from all the regions I like. Considering the steam experience is quite huge and happens plenty in the masses you can't easily dismiss it either.
 
I get this argument that you like what you like and you go where those games are but at the same time it boggles my mind. There's no games in the breadth of the PC catalog of interest? I just find it hard to believe.

I'm not disparaging your taste or anything, I just can't relate.

It's not about there being no games of interest in the PC catalog, it's about the fact that the ones we most want to play aren't there.

If I stuck to gaming on a PC, I'm sure I'd find some stuff I enjoyed well enough, but I would miss out on the games that excite me and get me amped up more than any others. I only have so many hours in a week for games; I'd prefer to spend that time on my top choices.
 
It's not illegal if you dump your own bios and still buy the games though is it? Most isssues have a fix and the emulators provide a better experience than the console.

I wasn't trying to make you change your mind, just showing you options.

I've dumped all my GC/PS2 games...wish there was a working Xbox emulator...
 
I get this argument that you like what you like and you go where those games are but at the same time it boggles my mind. There's no games in the breadth of the PC catalog of interest? I just find it hard to believe.

I'm not disparaging your taste or anything, I just can't relate.

Well, what I meant to say is that there aren't that many games on pc that I cannot play on consoles. The ones that pc only are not making want to break my wallet to build a new pc. That's what I meant to say.
 
This is the only argument about it that needs to happen:

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You did it.
 
It's not about there being no games of interest in the PC catalog, it's about the fact that the ones we most want to play aren't there.

If I stuck to gaming on a PC, I'm sure I'd find some stuff I enjoyed well enough, but I would miss out on the games that excite me and get me amped up more than any others. I only have so many hours in a week for games; I'd prefer to spend that time on my top choices.

Sorry, still doesn't make sense. We're counting out entire available genres and even in those that are represented in both decades of games that are available with the purchase of a single platform. I find that if you like Halo that shouldn't discourage you from exploring the FPS genre on PC.

I understand there are other factors in the decision I just find "consoles have everything I like" to be extremely closed minded. And as someone who enjoys games you're doing yourself a disservice if that's the only reason.

Edit :
Well, what I meant to say is that there aren't that many games on pc that I cannot play on consoles. The ones that pc only are not making want to break my wallet to build a new pc. That's what I meant to say.

Now that I get. I've been in similar situation previously. It can be an expensive hobby if you're trying to play everything. Plus its harder to explore a new platform when you've already made investments in one.
 
PC Master Race meme started after Yahtzee's review of Witcher 1 in 2007 or so, but there have been arguments between console gamers and PC gamers for much longer..ever since PC started becoming a serious gaming platform in the nineties, with Doom just annihilating what was available elsewhere. I mean I remembere fights between Amigists and PCgamers and PSX gamers and PC gamers etc.

Those arguments were mostly for hardware and usability, not so much about games. Though computers had better arcade ports. Also arcades were irreplacable. Now consoles try to replace the arcade experience but to no avail.
PCs should try to get rid of Windows instead of competing with Sony and Microsoft console spyware. Today this is more feasible than ever.
 
So you both just do whatever you want all the time, and never do your two sets of desires come into conflict? Ever?

Either you're being disingenuous, or you haven't been married longer than a month, or you aren't just lucky: You're in a miraculous situation.



The point is that not putting my PC in the living room with my TV had nothing to do with my wife "telling me what to do", but that even if it did, compromising on such issues is essential in most marriages. It's not a viable solution for me, period.


My wife and I don't really have any disagreements when it comes to doing things or playing games that we each want to play either like the fella you're referring to. Though we've only been married 8 years. Maybe 10 years is where we'll start arguing over TV time.

As far as fps/resolution. You know you can lower a games resolution to match whatever console settings you prefer as well as cap the framerate? Might make a difference for someone like you that is sensitive to those things.


End of the day, it's all user choice anyways so no need for all of us here to get so bent out of shape on someone's opinions.
 
Ps4/xb1 gaming doesn't just cost $350, there's that $50 a year to play online (on one console ), pay that for 8 years you're spending as much as a mid-high range PC

Whilst true, you also get a tonne of content for that money. For example, I'd personally happily pay the yearly amount, even if multiplayer was still free.

In general consoles are cheap. If you use previous BoM's to work out the cost of the individual parts in the console's, out of the £230/$300 we're usually paying for them (minus free bundled games etc), the actual GPU and CPU portion of that cost combined, only works out to about £80/$120. And that's including 8GB of GDDR5, which costs almost the same as the GPU/CPU itself.
 
Those arguments were mostly for hardware and usability, not so much about games. Though computers had better arcade ports. Also arcades were irreplacable. Now consoles try to replace the arcade experience but to no avail.
PCs should try to get rid of Windows instead of competing with Sony and Microsoft console spyware. Today this is more feasible than ever.

Unless valve or some company takes the time to wield linux to be more useful for gaming and then proves this quite convincingly we will be stuck in the bloaty windows OS environment.
 
I built a gaming PC and I'd say I do about 50% of my gaming on it at present. It outperforms my PS4 on multiplats (GTX 970), so it's mostly my go to there, but most of my friends play on PS, so that's where my multiplayer games go. I don't buy into the argument about the comfy couch; my PC sits right next to my PS4, played on my 70" 4k screen from my recliner about 6.5' away. PC gaming can be really great--games are typically cheaper faster, they can run better if your hardware setup allows, you can prioritize the aspects of a game that are meaningful to you, like FPS or textures, there is a humongous catalogue of new and older games available for purchase... the list goes on and on. However, these benefits don't come without some wrinkles. When I built my PC, everything went incredibly smoothly. All of the parts fit into my case no problem, nothing arrived DOA, and, miracle of miracles, the PC booted up to BIOS on the first attempt. No fucking around with error codes, no double checking RAM sticks, nothing.
Except.
Except that the damn thing had crazy audio stuttering issues. Anything streamed would crackle like a scratched record. Game audio would cut in and out, voices and sound effects out of sync with the action on screen. Save me, Google! After reinstalling my audio/visual drivers, the problem remained. After some searching, I found that I was having high DPC latency issues. Great! Now what? I spent a few more hours downloading latency checking software and fiddling with each and every driver I had. I did fix the problem--it was one of the myriad CPU drivers on the installation disc for my motherboard. Now I have no issues, but it took me several hours of research and trial and error to fix.
Because it was custom built, I didn't have a whole lot of other options, anyway, short of paying a repair shop a king's ransom to Google for me. This is the kind of shit you don't have to put up with on a console. If it doesn't work, you go get a new one. The custom nature of my gaming PC meant that I had to fix it myself (which I personally don't mind doing). This is something that the average consumer isn't likely going to be interested in, even if you can convince them to build a PC (easier than it sounds TBH, everything just kind of fits). It's a double edged sword. A huge benefit of PC gaming is that you can control your build--if it's custom--to get the performance you want at a good price point. But then you have to repair it yourself or prepare to be wrecked by a repair shop if something goes wrong. If you're buying a pre-built, you get wrecked up front on cost and may not get exactly what you need, but you can take it to Best Buy under warranty. I think that it is this that makes consoles attractive to those who don't want to tinker--they provide a low-cost option that "just works." Even though PC gaming has come a long way (driver updates are totally automated and painless, Nvidia has recommended settings that it automatically sets for you based on your hardware, etc., etc.), the core Windows/Linux shell can introduce complex problems for the consumer.
 
I built a gaming PC and I'd say I do about 50% of my gaming on it at present. It outperforms my PS4 on multiplats (GTX 970), so it's mostly my go to there, but most of my friends play on PS, so that's where my multiplayer games go. I don't buy into the argument about the comfy couch; my PC sits right next to my PS4, played on my 70" 4k screen from my recliner about 6.5' away. PC gaming can be really great--games are typically cheaper faster, they can run better if your hardware setup allows, you can prioritize the aspects of a game that are meaningful to you, like FPS or textures, there is a humongous catalogue of new and older games available for purchase... the list goes on and on. However, these benefits don't come without some wrinkles. When I built my PC, everything went incredibly smoothly. All of the parts fit into my case no problem, nothing arrived DOA, and, miracle of miracles, the PC booted up to BIOS on the first attempt. No fucking around with error codes, no double checking RAM sticks, nothing.
Except.
Except that the damn thing had crazy audio stuttering issues. Anything streamed would crackle like a scratched record. Game audio would cut in and out, voices and sound effects out of sync with the action on screen. Save me, Google! After reinstalling my audio/visual drivers, the problem remained. After some searching, I found that I was having high DPC latency issues. Great! Now what? I spent a few more hours downloading latency checking software and fiddling with each and every driver I had. I did fix the problem--it was one of the myriad CPU drivers on the installation disc for my motherboard. Now I have no issues, but it took me several hours of research and trial and error to fix.
Because it was custom built, I didn't have a whole lot of other options, anyway, short of paying a repair shop a king's ransom to Google for me. This is the kind of shit you don't have to put up with on a console. If it doesn't work, you go get a new one. The custom nature of my gaming PC meant that I had to fix it myself (which I personally don't mind doing). This is something that the average consumer isn't likely going to be interested in, even if you can convince them to build a PC (honestly easier than it sounds TBH, everything just kind of fits). It's a double edged sword. A huge benefit of PC gaming is that you can control your build--if it's custom--to get the performance you want at a good price point. But then you have to repair it yourself or prepare to be wrecked by a repair shop if something goes wrong. If you're buying a pre-built, you get wrecked up front on cost and may not get exactly what you need, but you can take it to Best Buy under warranty. I think that it is this that makes consoles attractive to those who don't want to tinker--they provide a low-cost option that "just works." Even though PC gaming has come a long way (driver updates are totally automated and painless, Nvidia has recommended settings that it automatically sets for you based on your hardware, etc., etc.), the core Windows/Linux shell can introduce complex problems for the consumer.

DPC latency issues when it comes to sound usually derive from onboard sound or bad boards in general. DPC latency in general on windows is a bullshit issue most of us shouldn't have to deal with but will until MS grows up. If certain settings are off when it comes to dpc latency you're screwed even worse if your mobo has a bad chip cause you will constantly be pegging high which make your high end hardware useless due to stuttering. Sony and Nintendo systems don't have this issue but since ms consoles use windows os in parts it still there. You are right about the shell but the problem is gamers have no influence in getting mircosoft to fix something that has been a problem largely since xp and we started testing for it. You can buy the best pc hardware and run right in to this issue with no solution but to ditch the causes and if it's your mobo most wont.

My post history goes in to this subject but short of education and dealing with those aware of it there is no solution which is pretty sad cause DPC latency is more important than FPS it effects everything in a game considering it will mess with your OS whole timing.
 
Whilst true, you also get a tonne of content for that money. For example, I'd personally happily pay the yearly amount, even if multiplayer was still free.

In general consoles are cheap. If you use previous BoM's to work out the cost of the individual parts in the console's, out of the £230/$300 we're usually paying for them (minus free bundled games etc), the actual GPU and CPU portion of that cost combined, only works out to about £80/$120. And that's including 8GB of GDDR5, which costs almost the same as the GPU/CPU itself.

one also has to consider the repurchasing of controllers, arcade sticks and wheels. in addition to playing to play online. consoles entry price is cheap. their lifetime price is anything but.
 
one also has to consider the repurchasing of controllers, arcade sticks and wheels. in addition to playing to play online. consoles entry price is cheap. their lifetime price is anything but.

Those accessories / peripherals are usually cross function with PC, and the costs apply to both platforms. A controller comes with the console, so that's not an issue.
 
Well FPSes are literally the most popular AAA genre for consoles. I have no idea why you think you'll find a better library of not-FPS on consoles.

Because I like jrpgs, racing, action, adventure and sport games the most. Can I play yakuza, God of war, the last of us, uncharted, motorstorm, gran turismo, demon's souls, bloodborne,ff8,9 10, dragon quest 8 and infamous on pc? I don't think so, so please stop questioning my preferences. And no, I don't like wrpjs .
 
Sorry, still doesn't make sense. We're counting out entire available genres and even in those that are represented in both decades of games that are available with the purchase of a single platform. I find that if you like Halo that shouldn't discourage you from exploring the FPS genre on PC.

I understand there are other factors in the decision I just find "consoles have everything I like" to be extremely closed minded. And as someone who enjoys games you're doing yourself a disservice if that's the only reason.

You're looking at it the wrong way. For me, it goes something like this:

"I can afford and have time for probably four games this month; what looks best to me out of everything that's out for all platforms? Dragon Quest Heroes is out; looks good and I'm a big fan of DQ. Rock Band 4; looking forward to inviting some friends over to play. Transformers Devastation looks great; loved the cartoon as a kid! Disgaea 5 is out too, I'm a big fan of that series."

Now. Of those four games, three are console exclusives. And while I could find something on PC that matches the genre of each of those games, I want to play those specific games. But the reason why isn't just because I'm not open to playing the PC games that belong to those genres, because I have. There's just something about each of those three franchises that gives me something I love.

The PC has strategy RPGs, but it doesn't have anything I know of with the particular combination of action, art, and humor Disgaea has. So I want to play Disgaea 5 specifically, and that means playing it on a PS4. And in most cases like this for me, consoles are where those games are. If they were on PC exclusively, I'd play them there.
 
My wife and I don't really have any disagreements when it comes to doing things or playing games that we each want to play either like the fella you're referring to. Though we've only been married 8 years. Maybe 10 years is where we'll start arguing over TV time.

I'm not saying my wife and I argue over TV time, but if I went crazy and decided I wanted to put something big, ugly and clashy in our living room, I'm sure she'd have something to say about it. Wouldn't yours? My whole point was that sticking a PC tower in the living room is not a viable option for everybody.

As far as fps/resolution. You know you can lower a games resolution to match whatever console settings you prefer as well as cap the framerate? Might make a difference for someone like you that is sensitive to those things.

Correct, and often I will do exactly that. My point was that those are advantages in the PC column that aren't advantages for me personally.
 
Everything but fps and rts.
So how is there nothing you like on PC? There are countless adventure games, platformers, racing games, horror games, stealth games, puzzlers, rhythm games, roguelikes, turn based games, third person and 2D shooters, etc. on PC

Edit: oh you're talking specifically about franchises rather than genres. Well yeah, that's the same reason I have a PS4: Uncharted, Bloodborne, TLOU, etc.
 
I don't think there is a single group on GAF that needs more reassurance than the "master race"...

The fact that consoleGAFers keep sarcastically using that phrase to deride the PC gamers on this board even though I very rarely see anyone acting that way tells me otherwise. As does the derailing and trolling of PC-centric threads that has hit a new all-time high recently. As does the constant bickering between the different console camps which absolutely dwarfs everything else.
 
Because I like jrpgs, racing, action, adventure and sport games the most. Can I play yakuza, God of war, the last of us, uncharted, motorstorm, gran turismo, demon's souls, bloodborne,ff8,9 10, dragon quest 8 and infamous on pc? I don't think so, so please stop questioning my preferences. And no, I don't like wrpjs .

As someone else pointed out, you aren't looking at genres, you're looking at game series.
 
So how is there nothing you like on PC? There are countless adventure games, platformers, racing games, horror games, stealth games, puzzlers, rhythm games, roguelikes, turn based games, third person and 2D shooters, etc. on PC

One of the things that keeps speaking to me is the catalog of older games that I can go back and play in full glory. I am pretty bitter about the thousands of dollars I have spent on games on older consoles that are now gone, unless I keep all of those old systems lying around. Which I just don't do.
 
One of the things that keeps speaking to me is the catalog of older games that I can go back and play in full glory. I am pretty bitter about the thousands of dollars I have spent on games on older consoles that are now gone, unless I keep all of those old systems lying around. Which I just don't do.

Some older games on PC do occasionally have compatibility issues with newer hardware. Fortunately, modders and emulators solve most of the issues.

It is nice to occasionally revisit the original Doom and Duke 3D :)
 
I get this argument that you like what you like and you go where those games are but at the same time it boggles my mind. There's no games in the breadth of the PC catalog of interest? I just find it hard to believe.

I'm not disparaging your taste or anything, I just can't relate.

The fact is a great majority of console games, especially current gen, are also on the PC. both platforms have exclusives the other doesn't have. So if a person ONLY likes console exclusives and that's it, the argument is weak at best and even worse if they only own one console! Besides a handful of games here and there I can play anything really note worthy on my PC. That being said, I do enjoy some console gaming as well. I love Splatoon and Bloodborne for example. I also like the console version of Diablo 3 better than the PC version. Basically, if you are a gamer it would benefit you to take advantage of both PC and console gaming or you are probably missing out on some really neat experiences, and as a gamer, you want to minimize the missing out on that as much as possible. :)
 
I'm not saying my wife and I argue over TV time, but if I went crazy and decided I wanted to put something big, ugly and clashy in our living room, I'm sure she'd have something to say about it. Wouldn't yours? My whole point was that sticking a PC tower in the living room is not a viable option for everybody.



Correct, and often I will do exactly that. My point was that those are advantages in the PC column that aren't advantages for me personally.


Except, I don't have a PC tower in my living room, it's more like a small, cubey and pretty cute; matx case by Lian Li and serves as a better entertainment center than a console. I'm sure you're familar with HTPC? No need to go tower for big power these days...
 
this is like arguing fine dining vs. mcdonald's.

sure, fine dining is much, much better - but i still loves me some mcdonald's... y'know?

also, post #7 totally nails it.
 
this is like arguing fine dining vs. mcdonald's.

sure, fine dining is much, much better - but i still loves me some mcdonald's... y'know?

also, post #7 totally nails it.
Totally, I mean I like cooking for myself sometimes but I can't always be bothered. McDonald's will hit the spot just fine.

That's why I own a pc and ps4.
 
this is like arguing fine dining vs. mcdonald's.

sure, fine dining is much, much better - but i still loves me some mcdonald's... y'know?

also, post #7 totally nails it.

Not an apt comparison.

Advantages of console gaming:
Physical game ownership: You can lend/loan or sell games, or even give them away.
Unified hardware (great for developers). No compatibility issues. No need to upgrade until the next cycle.
It's comfortable. You buy a console and you get everything you need to start playing right away (including controller) for a cheap price. You don't need to install any hardware components or an OS, drivers etc. They are easy to use and hassle-free. Every console game will always play in the exact same manner on every console it's designed for (allowing for competition). Cheating is harder/impossible.
You get access to lots of new and exclusive content that would not exist if not for consoles.
 
Man, you're gonna say I'm lying or exaggerating or what have you. I play games on GOG all the time. Not for the sake of anecdotes. I play classic cRPGs every single week. I download the game. I run the game. That's it. But apparently I'm the one who's reaching. I have Ultima 2 and Might and Magic 1 installed right now. Download. Install. Go. That's all there is to it.

Yes, we already discussed GoG. And my response was that if you're leaning on GoG to bolster the backwards compatibility argument, the fact consoles have their own officially licensed stores that offer classic games bundled in such a way as to make them compatible on modern hardware. It's a tick in both columns, and a pro for both sides can't be used to promote one side over the other. I never said they don't "matter". You made that up.

I'll now lean on my own anecdotal evidence that you can download Akalabeth from fucking 1979. Launch it. And play it. Right now. No configuration. I know this because I did it a few weeks ago. And then I did Ultima 1. And Ultima 2. Before that I ran Fallout 1 off GOG with no tweaks at all. Launched it, ran it. That isn't even a DOS game.

That sounds awesome for you. Congratulations, man! Irrelevant to this argument—consoles also have spotty, inconsistent direct compatibility with old software—but I'm happy for you.

You are incapable of counting anything a PC is capable of as a positive.

Am I? I wasn't aware that more than one or two capabilities of the PC had even come up so far in our conversation. But sure: I hate them all! If that makes you feel better.

All I've done is to call into question the "objectivity" of a handful of those positives. Some other ones we haven't discussed I happen to agree are positives! ...For me. Objectively, though? I'm not foolish enough or shaky in my choices enough to start throwing around declamations like that, because besides being false, it's a weak tactic for debate.

I'm sorry, in this discussion, you're far from being the one with a sane, cool head.

I think you should go back and examine the escalating emotion level of your posts and maybe rethink that position.
 
My clunky PC is in an out of the way room with no HDMI out hooked up to a small monitor and no matter how hard I try, I can't get a controller to work regularly. And I don't want to get into trying to get dsfix for Dark Souls to work.

I like my "dumbed down" plug in and play thank you very much.

I'm also not very computer savvy.
 
Except, I don't have a PC tower in my living room, it's more like a small, cubey and pretty cute; matx case by Lian Li and serves as a better entertainment center than a console. I'm sure you're familar with HTPC? No need to go tower for big power these days...

Sure, but I don't have a PC like that. Even if I did, I need it in my office for work, as that's what I primarily use it for. And, if I'm having to buy a new PC to put it in my living room, we're no longer talking about an easy and inexpensive solution.
 
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