Tripolygon
Banned
Yes, especially FromSoft Games.
Also
Proving again that you don't need specific hardware accelerators or INT8 and lower precision do inference.
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PD GT7 A.I goes self aware: Sophy at the wheel
- Thread starter Thirty7ven
- Start date
Also
Elog
Member
Yeah, that is why the behaviour of this AI is on the front cover of Nature - one of the highest impact scientific journals globally...
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Microsoft didn't think Gran Turismo would still be hanging around after they put distance between them with the recent Forza entries.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Thats was not the task of the PS3, the PS3 was used as a tool to help supercomputers folding, the idea was how more computers in the world where helping this enourmus task the more data they would get it would help to understand how cancer works, its nothing to make jokes about. When i had the PS3, i was always participating with this program..cancer is a bitch, and how sooner whe find a cure, how better.
Loxus
Member
Well, seeing how Sony going this hard with AI & ML. It's hard to believe the PS5 doesn't support it.GT Sport
Yes, especially FromSoft Games.
Also
Anos Voldigoad
Member
The main takeaway from this is that SIE plans to put Ai in more games in the future. I'm excited to see the possibilities
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REDRZA MWS
Member
I agree cancer sucks, but the Sony and all it's bullshit tech marketing nonsense isn't curing cancer. Started with "emotion engine", then "reality synthesizer" and onto now Sophy…… it's all bullshit. It's a video game.
Sportspersonship?! Really?
Even had a hard time typing it as my autocorrect had no idea what I was trying to say
Aenima
Member
This was really entertaining. Loved the 1st race, seeing the AI use a more risky driving line, that human players dont used, just to make the corner faster.
Curious to see how Kaz is going to implement it in GT7
Tripolygon
Banned
Folding at home is a real thing. You can donate your PC time to the project. PS3 Cell processor was really good at doing those sorts of calculations. It was a project in collaboration with Stanford University and 15 million PS3 users donated 100 million computing hours to the project.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
So when you drive behind Sophie, you are learning to take more advantage of the whole circuit, taking corners better, better braking points, where you dont have to break and so on.....
ethomaz
Banned
Imagine you are a professional real life racer.
You train every day the same curve to near perfection... but even so your can do it perfectly just 20% of times, of course some curves are easier than others so some you will have a less than 5% change to make it perfect while other ever over 20% change... now imagine a full lap has 20 curves... so you have 20 points per lap to miss the perfect.
At the end you train everyday to be the most close possible to the perfection in each lap... so that way you do your best time.
So in a race with the pressure and physical tired you will in a race with 60 laps reach near your best time maybe one or two times... all the others times will be a bit or a lot lower depending of the condition.
A perfect lap time? Maybe 1 in 1 million... just a super luck lap.
That is a normal Champion Racer.
That AI runs without mistakes making perfect lap times after perfect lap times without get tired... so with 60 laps it will be few seconds always ahead you to the point that at the end it will have a lap over the best Champion Racer.
I won't call it "cracks"... it is just it can do the best time the track allow without mistakes.
It still uses all the physical rules and race regulations... it just it is so good and makes no mistake in all the curves and laps that at the end it can really be called "super-human".
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I'm not sure why you think I needed this explained to me... don't think you understand really what I'm saying.
This AI has learned the fastest way to race tracks in Gran Turismo 7, doing things no actual car racer would ever do.. my point was that is probably revealing where the "simulation" is flawed, as I doubt these things being done in the real world would work. So what has this AI/ML project actually really done?
It honestly sounds like pretty basic ML stuff... "fun" but why is this groundbreaking?
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ethomaz
Banned
I think it can be done in real world at the same conditions... same tracks, same cars, weather conditions, etc.
GT7 tracks are very accurate to real life ones.
Outside that... I don't know because the AI while being perfect needs to deal with more obstacles and even different speeds.
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PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Its not bullshit tech marketing, it was serious.and emotion engine and RS, was just name giving of tech every company does do that. Even MS with theyr Velocity Architechture and Intelligent Delivery.
But Sophy is not bullshit, its a real thing. And Sophy will be used in videogames, why are you so triggert?
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
And I'm highly doubting that.
SLB1904
Banned
dave perel profissional gt3 driver said the same thing. whats your doubts based on?
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I'm not saying it isn't a really great simulation.
I'm saying that considering this AI re-invented the "lines" drivers would normally take, that probably represents where the simulation is a bit off, not where every driver of these tracks ever has miscalculated what the best "lines" would be.
It's absolutely not a perfect simulation and an AI would absolutely be able to find where that allows for driving that normally wouldn't work on a real track to have superior results, is all I'm saying.
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SLB1904
Banned
yeah, my comment was about how accurate the gt tracks are to their real world counterpart. of course the simulation isnt 1 to 1.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Sony and big tech also have a bridge to sell you. It's a video game, going to be a damn good one and will sell gangbusters. But Sophy isn't Terminator AI from the future.
SLB1904
Banned
i guess you have to read this to find out
if i had to guess, they just use all the studies through the decades to create sophy. the impressive part is using in videogames.
imagine if they use this ai in other action games. like 3rd person shooters and stuff.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Oh gotcha; I was saying I highly doubt these tactics invented by the AI would work in the real world.
It'd be interesting to test some of them; but it's not a 1:1 simulation, and these drivers have already tried adjusting every line imaginable, likely have race teams employing all kinds of tech to calculate those lines/etc.
Faithless83
Banned
Isn't it ironic that they used a female name for a driver AI? 
As someone who's studying AI as a side project, this is extremely impressive.
To the "DOTA/RTS/Chess is harder", not it isn't.
Even though there are a lot of variables on these, there is a lot more adjustment and fine tuning on the fly in racing sims.
Weather, tires, cars, course lines and other drivers are way more complex than fixed outcomes in chess/RTS.
As someone who's studying AI as a side project, this is extremely impressive.
To the "DOTA/RTS/Chess is harder", not it isn't.
Even though there are a lot of variables on these, there is a lot more adjustment and fine tuning on the fly in racing sims.
Weather, tires, cars, course lines and other drivers are way more complex than fixed outcomes in chess/RTS.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I still don't really get it.
Why does Sony think creating an AI that can beat anyone is some useful innovation?
Why do they even really think this is something others haven't done?
SLB1904
Banned
thats the thing, this ai is learning how to play gran Turismo, isnt just a gran turismo ai. basically can learn any game. the breakthrough isn't supposed to be mechanic stuff. if you watch the race, the behavior was almost like a human, the other racing games ai is very clinical and precise.
Faithless83
Banned
It's not about beating the top players, it's about simulating a real person playing.
Choosing racing sims as a start point helps a lot since there are so many variables in it, much more than other genres.
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systemr123
Banned
It is very useful for creating self driving cars, which might be perfect timing since Sony is bringing its own EV cars to the market soon. I own a self driving Tesla and while it's absolutely not perfect yet, it'd be hard to go back to having to steer and accelerate/brake by yourself
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well that's what neural networks do... Sony didn't invent the concept. I understand how actual machine learning based AIs work.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Those AIs are also first built by using machine learning against simulations, that include what you'd see in real world driving scenarios like pedestrains and stoplights and all of that jazz.It is very useful for creating self driving cars, which might be perfect timing since Sony is bringing its own EV cars to the market soon. I own a self driving Tesla and while it's absolutely not perfect yet, it'd be hard to go back to having to steer and accelerate/brake by yourself
And they are made more complex by also having to have AI that attempts to recognize what is actually in front/beside/behind them using cameras/sensors, vs. a video game or simulation where all of that data is perfectly accurate.
I'm just not seeing any breakthroughs here.
SLB1904
Banned
I didn't say that lol
What I'm saying it's fantastic the the games are able to take advantage of this stuff.
For example for people that plays cod, bots are shit. If in the future bots behave like human it will be fun. It could be for anything really
systemr123
Banned
I'm quite sure this AI knows much better how to overtake and avoid collisions than the current software in actual cars. Revolutionary? Maybe no. But every step is a step into self driving bliss
Thirty7ven
Banned
I know you're busy being the smartest guy in the room, and the folks at Nature, A.I programmers, and University doctorates don't have a hope to get where you are right now, but try to look at in the same way as the A.I that succeeded at GO.
Except here its not just about winning, but an A.I that needs to react very quickly to what's happening around it while trying not just to be the fastest, but abiding by sportsmanship principles.
And instead of asking "Why do they even really think this is new?", maybe you should look inwards and ask yourself... "What do I actually know?"
Otherwise, show the examples you have. And please don't just show an example of machine learning.... how do you think this works? You tell a machine you want an A.I and it does the rest of the work?
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Loxus
Member
If Sophy was perfectly accurate.
Don't you think all 4 Sophy would of placed first in all 3 tracks?
Sophy was born using Machine Learning on a Super Computer to act like a human. Ain't nothing basic about that.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I'm asking questions because I'd like to know what the actual breakthrough is.
I also have no knowledge of whether "Nature Portfolio" are some AI experts either..
To your point, maybe I'm coming across more dismissive than I need to be, but I do understand ML.. I understand the concepts being talked about in the abstract of the paper they published as well.
I'm simply asking, WHAT is the breakthrough? What was accomplished beyond what others have done before? What will the application be?
I don't see how that is some unfair question...
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SLB1904
Banned
the only way to know is to read the magazine i guess
Anos Voldigoad
Member
I don't think they will work on a real track. There are just too many variables in the real world. A small pebble can change the input required but not in a game. Your input is always the same.
DJ12
Member
So basically I need to beat the game before they implement this or I'm never winning a race
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I'm not really talking about having the AI control cars on a track; I mean the strategies the AI came up with, would those influence real world drivers?
They claim the AI came up with new "lines", meaning the path the car travels, when to accelerate, when to break, not typically used. My understanding is the recommended "lines" in these games are based on what real world drivers do on these very tracks.
Would be cool to see a real world driver try these same "lines" and see if they can improve track time.
Or if it doesn't improve track times; Sony could try to figure out why their simulation doesn't match reality, and adjust the simulation accordingly.
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nemiroff
Member
That's because there is most likely none.. But we'll see.
Or it could simply be more akin to an aerodynamically unstable fly-by-wire aircraft which is impossible to fly manually by a human because it relies on computers to do hundreds of corrections per second thus drawing advantages out of being inherently unstable. Maybe a human doesn't have the processing power to make the same lines as "sophy", IDK.. How much human restrictions did they put into this. "Ideal" racing lines are also dynamic according to a whole range of factors, like car, setup, track conditions, tires, fuel amount, and much more. So I'd also like to know how much of this data they've taken into consideration when doing the ML training.
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Raven117
Member
Lol! Effing wow. You know absolutely nothing about racing.
Anos Voldigoad
Member
We gonna learn these tracks and we gonna take that to be better than a Machine, exciting times we are in here. Can you imagine the fun times we can have with intelligent ai in co op games either as your companion or nemesis. Games stopped being fun with dumb ai, this will revolutionise the gameplay experience
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