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[Agent Icebeezy]

:Fans Flames: So, one person says MGS4 is a thrown together trailer. Another says it's a game. Make up your mind people.......... :Fans Flames:


This game is never going to get the respect it deserves. Rare made something from what was a lot of nothing in May. As evidence will have it though, this thread's explosion shows that Perfect Dark Zero = Star Power and Status. Microsoft has another hit on it's hands

 

[raYne]

I think the graphics look good, but not great.
But the AI looks like Crap.

People already said that it's running on easy difficulty as evidenced by the facts that:

1- the AI is crappy.
2- the mission direction arrows on the floor in one of the vids.

 

[Amir0x]

I think the graphics look good, but not great.
But the "let the bad guys stand here and get shot" AI looks like Crap.

That's because the demo in the vid is set to the easiest mode. That's also why you see retard arrows showing the way in levels that contain segments that are entirely straight and narrow.

 

[fartblast]

That's because the demo in the vid is set to the easiest mode. That's also why you see retard arrows showing the way in levels that contain segments that are entirely straight and narrow.

so normal and beyond will not have this? because i'm pretty sure i know what to do when i see a flight of stairs.

 

[Amir0x]

so normal and beyond will not have this? because i'm pretty sure i know what to do when i see a flight of stairs.

Presumably, that is the implication. I personally find it hilarious that anyone would need arrows on this particular segment of the level they had (it was as straight and narrow as it could possibly get, how could you get lost?), but I don't care since I won't be playing at retard difficulty.

 

[brandonh83]

Well I was pretty sure that I read that Kojima Productions put the trailer together to have something to show at the TGS. I didn't mean "thrown together trailer" in a negative way whatsoever. But both games look great, respectively.

 

[newsguy]

but I don't care since I won't be playing at retard difficulty.

Retard pack exclusive PDZ level exposed?

 

[Deku Tree]

Well I hope the AI is good on the hard difficulty settings.

 

[JJConrad]

well.im not saying this game is a disgrace or anything,it looks A LOT BETTER than his first photos,the scenaries looks inmense and the detail on the wall is awesome,but ppl some of u are acting as if this is the second coming of jesus,the animation is stiff,the havok implementation is weak,and the fire fights or weapon effects look a bit tame to me if you compare the animation on ghost recon,the explosion effects u can see easily who looks better

and by the way the dude who said ghost recons have no Phyisics need to play the xbox games cause they have havok implemented ( and one of the best havoks implementations i have seen anywhere) and the gr3 video got some awesome physics on explosions and foes

I've noticed that in the last few weeks that:

- To the Sony fanboy, anything that isn't MGS4 isn't next-gen.
- To the MS fanboy, anything that isn't Wallguy is OMGWTF Amazing.
And anyone who doesn't agree is considered nothing but a troll.

My take on these videos was similar to yours. I read the first page before watching the videos and was excited to see them. Watching the 2nd video first, the animation was a complete joke; cheesy death animations aside, the characters ran around like doofs and didn't compliment their nice looking environments at all. The characters still have that out-of-place Wallguy look to them. The first video was nothing but a shiny brick wall. This definately looks better than E3, but I saw nothing that justified the splooging of the first few pages. The later videos were much better.

Why does it jump to third person when you roll? I think it looks silly and jarring. The transistion doesn't seem worth the small animation.

 

[raYne]

Holy shit at the thread jacking...

He said textures people... textures.. Both Snake and Kojima are safe. Jesus...

 

[ced]

Guys Im sorry but those animations are unacceptably bad, damn.

Visuals should be measured as a whole, and Id consider animation a big part of that.

Im still looking forward to it but good god those animations...

 

[fartblast]

that justified the splooging of the first few pages. The later videos were much better.

Why does it jump to third person when you roll? I think it looks silly and jarring. The transistion doesn't seem worth the small animation.

do you have any idea how fucking irritating that would be in first person?

 

[Amir0x]

I've noticed that in the last few weeks that:

- To the Sony fanboy, anything that isn't MGS4 isn't next-gen.
- To the MS fanboy, anything that isn't Wallguy is OMGWTF Amazing.
And anyone who doesn't agree is considered nothing but a troll.

GAME. SET. MATCH.

Undeniable truth.

 

[gamergirly]

I've noticed that in the last few weeks that:

- To the Sony fanboy, anything that isn't MGS4 isn't next-gen.
- To the MS fanboy, anything that isn't Wallguy is OMGWTF Amazing.
And anyone who doesn't agree is considered nothing but a troll.

My take on these videos was similar to yours. I read the first page before watching the videos and was excited to see them. Watching the 2nd video first, the animation was a complete joke; cheesy death animations aside, the characters ran around like doofs and didn't compliment their nice looking environments at all. The characters still have that out-of-place Wallguy look to them. The first video was nothing but a shiny brick wall. This definately looks better than E3, but I saw nothing that justified the splooging of the first few pages. The later videos were much better.

Why does it jump to third person when you roll? I think it looks silly and jarring. The transistion doesn't seem worth the small animation.

Good point.

 

[Raistlin]

I suppose it's been said enough but ...


Geometry, texture, and lighting looks awsome - framerate too.

3rd person roll is a little whack, in an out-of-body experience sort of way.

'Physics-based' animation (from the moon maybe?) is just terrible. Entertaining in a weird sort of way ... but still terrible.

 

[Speevy]

- To the Sony fanboy, anything that isn't MGS4 isn't next-gen.

Regardless of system preference, I think anyone who brings up this game in a thread which has absolutely nothing to do with it should be temporarily banned.

Or: A second option would be to troll every PS2 game thread for 2005-2006 with Conker, Riddick, Doom 3, Ralisport Challenge 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Halo 2, etc.

But I prefer the first option, if someone has to feel inadequate.

 

[dark10x]

Wow, just saw them...

Visually, it looks very nice. The city level especially looked really nifty. I noticed in the forest vid that another agent appeared along-side the player. I haven't seen any potential details on the subject, but is CO-OP play an option in this game outside of a splitscreen mode? That would be a lot of fun!

The game itself looks kinda...odd, though. The AI reminds me of an old old game (the enemies were acting like the guys in SiN -- hell, the whole city segment could have been from SiN) and the ragdoll effects were pretty weak and over the top (kinda like those in Hitman 2). I guess now, when you shoot someone in the balls, they'll go flying all crazy like. Animation seems kinda "meh" as well (OK, really "meh" in a lot of cases).

That kind of gameplay can still be enjoyable, of course, and I prefer enemies of that type to the jittery pieces of crap found in Far Cry or something. I just want more Halo. I know a lot of folks don't share my love for the game (though plenty of others do), but Halo represents everything I want in an FPS in this day and age.

Oh yeah, and I haven't read any of this thread as I just got back. I have no idea what anyone else has said about it yet...but I guess I'll know soon enough.

 

[PhatSaqs]

My take on these videos was similar to yours. I read the first page before watching the videos and was excited to see them. Watching the 2nd video first, the animation was a complete joke; cheesy death animations aside, the characters ran around like doofs and didn't compliment their nice looking environments at all. The characters still have that out-of-place Wallguy look to them. The first video was nothing but a shiny brick wall. This definately looks better than E3, but I saw nothing that justified the splooging of the first few pages. The later videos were much better.
.

BS. There are plenty of posts on the first few pages (the first few posts even) in this thread that certainly harp on the same issues you point out. The fact that you feel the need to justify your post by going against those that were "splooging" speaks pretty loudly.

If you dont think it looks that great, just state it and keep it moving. When you (and there are plenty in this thread) start to post shit like "OMG!!! HOW DO YOU THINK THAT LOOKS GREAT!!!???? YOU ARE TEH XBOT!!!!" it just starts the ball rolling for more stupid arguments and derailing of the thread (insert MGS4 reference here).

GAF has gotten pretty bad the last couple of weeks....

 

[Kabuki Waq]

one thing that sorta looked bad to me was in the seen where the birds flew the enemies seemed to be waiting for Joanna with their guns drawn i hope the combat isnt scripted like that.

 

[fortified_concept]

I've noticed that in the last few weeks that:

- To the Sony fanboy, anything that isn't MGS4 isn't next-gen.
- To the MS fanboy, anything that isn't Wallguy is OMGWTF Amazing.
And anyone who doesn't agree is considered nothing but a troll.

My take on these videos was similar to yours. I read the first page before watching the videos and was excited to see them. Watching the 2nd video first, the animation was a complete joke; cheesy death animations aside, the characters ran around like doofs and didn't compliment their nice looking environments at all. The characters still have that out-of-place Wallguy look to them. The first video was nothing but a shiny brick wall. This definately looks better than E3, but I saw nothing that justified the splooging of the first few pages. The later videos were much better.

Why does it jump to third person when you roll? I think it looks silly and jarring. The transistion doesn't seem worth the small animation.

QFT.

 

[Ryudo]

Wow, its a bit hard to tell with the quality of the videos but video 2 is showing signs of PDZ being killer. The details is stupendous.

Animation is a bit weak, but i do dig the death animations. This isnt a realistic game like Ghost Recon so you would expect some far out shit to go on. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing your enemy blown away.

 

[raYne]

BS. There are plenty of posts on the first few pages (the first few posts even) in this thread that certainly harp on the same issues you point out. The fact that you feel the need to justify your post by going against those that were "splooging" speaks pretty loudly.

If you dont think it looks that great, just state it and keep it moving. When you (and there are plenty in this thread) start to post shit like "OMG!!! HOW DO YOU THINK THAT LOOKS GREAT!!!???? YOU ARE TEH XBOT!!!!" it just starts the ball rolling for more stupid arguments and derailing of the thread (insert MGS4 reference here).

GAF has gotten pretty bad the last couple of weeks....

This man knows what he's talking about.

QFT.

*rollseyes*
Indeed.. that's why this statement..

It is the best looking game we've seen so far. And btw people should stop comparing PDZ with MGS4 because the comparison itself is fucking ridiculous. Thanks.

..was made simply cause someone was comparing texture work.

If you're gonna "QFT" something, make sure you agree with all of it.

 

[dark10x]

Wow, its a bit hard to tell with the quality of the videos but video 2 is showing signs of PDZ being killer. The details is stupendous.

Animation is a bit weak, but i do dig the death animations. This isnt a realistic game like Ghost Recon so you would expect some far out shit to go on. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing your enemy blown away.

Ha ha, you should seriously check out Hitman 2. It IS a great game, but those death animations often produce some great results.

It's like, you shoot a guy with your "ballers" and he literally goes head over heels flying through the air. You can just kinda keep shooting them and watch their bodies go crazy. It's very similar to what is shown in those PDZ videos, but like 10x more extreme.

 

[Ryudo]

BS. There are plenty of posts on the first few pages (the first few posts even) in this thread that certainly harp on the same issues you point out. The fact that you feel the need to justify your post by going against those that were "splooging" speaks pretty loudly.

If you dont think it looks that great, just state it and keep it moving. When you (and there are plenty in this thread) start to post shit like "OMG!!! HOW DO YOU THINK THAT LOOKS GREAT!!!???? YOU ARE TEH XBOT!!!!" it just starts the ball rolling for more stupid arguments and derailing of the thread (insert MGS4 reference here).

GAF has gotten pretty bad the last couple of weeks....

And dont you love his refference to wallguy :lol

 

[radrelic]

TeamXbox just posted this...

It is worth clarifying that in this debug build many physics were turned off as well as the enemy AI. We suggest you to pay attention to Joanna’s animation, the size of the city and viewing distance.

 

[dark10x]

We suggest you to pay attention to Joanna’s animation, the size of the city and viewing distance.

I think it should be more "We suggest you to pay attention to the size of the city and viewing distance"...

 

[Ryudo]

Ha ha, you should seriously check out Hitman 2. It IS a great game, but those death animations often produce some great results.

It's like, you shoot a guy with your "ballers" and he literally goes head over heels flying through the air. You can just kinda keep shooting them and watch their bodies go crazy. It's very similar to what is shown in those PDZ videos, but like 10x more extreme.

Will do, i actually have a copy of it here unopened that came with my ati card

 

[fortified_concept]

For the record guys, it was an xbox fan who brought MGS4 up.

edit: Physics and AI turned off? That explains it.

 

[Neex]

Legit question:

Is there actually anything revolutionary about this game, or is it just another FPS with good graphics?

 

[Amir0x]

Legit question:

Is there actually anything revolutionary about this game, or is it just another FPS with good graphics?

Does it have to be 'revolutionary', or can it just be a really great evolution of existing ideas?

 

[rastex]

I think it should be more "We suggest you to pay attention to the size of the city and viewing distance"...

What's wrong with her animations? The enemy animations had some popping issues where they didn't blend well, but I couldn't see any popping with Joanna's movements (reloading, dive roll, ladder climbing, etc)

 

[mashoutposse]

It looks like Farcry in a city setting. The enemies especially look and react similarly to the ones in that game.

 

[Lunar Aura]

TeamXbox just posted this...

X05. game...set...match.

 

[raYne]

Is there actually anything revolutionary about this game, or is it just another FPS with good graphics?

Well the 3rd person switching for things like diving and wall hugging specifically are new as far as I know. But other than that, nope there really isn't anything revolutionary so far in this game.

That said, I haven't seen anything revolutionary in any other next-gen game either and this gen wasn't exactly filled with revolution after revolution. Nor was the previous...

Welcome to gaming I guess..

 

[Neex]

Does it have to be 'revolutionary', or can it just be a really great evolution of existing ideas?

To be a system seller that I yearn for so badly I dream about it, yes. To be a game that I rent or fool around with at a friend's house, no.

But I want PD to be the earlier, not the latter.

Edit: *To Rayne: Graphics can be revolutionary, so I'd give PGR3 that edge, and I certainly think that Halo, Halo 2, GTA, and MGS 2 all brought amazing new things to console gaming, just to name a few.

 

[trmas]

I was reading some other forum, and someone hit it on the head concerning death animations. The way the enemy reacts to getting shot is like the Namco shooting game, Time Crisis. As far as the AI, I'm pretty certain it isn't that dumb, but the best thing about the game is it LOOKS to run at a solid 60fps. At least this low quality video is surprisingly smooth, unlike GoW which we know has a jerky framerate.

Most of all, though, this game looks fun. I don't even like FPS games, and I'm gonna buy this. No, the graphics aren't even close to the best that 360 or especially the PS3 have, but the overall presentation is ace. It does remind of GoldenEye, which is all that I wanted.

As far as multiplayer, headshots should be less common with the rolling. If you aim low, you will hit the rolling player anyway.

 

[Amir0x]

To be a system seller that I yearn for so badly I dream about it, yes. To be a game that I rent or fool around with at a friend's house, no.

But I want PD to be the earlier, not the latter.

So you don't buy any game that isn't a "revolution"?

 

[Neex]

So you don't buy any game that isn't a "revolution"?

No, I don't buy a system for a game that isn't a revolution.

(Yeah, suddenly bad Nintendo puns come to mind.)

 

[Striek]

Damn that texturing is nice. Shiny and plastic but the detail is insane. Lighting is great as it casts shadows on the gun. Joanna herself looked pretty bad though (both model and look). Physics...those leaves blowing in the wind look pretty unrealistic as they float back into the air, death animations are laughably bad as stated by others.

Those textures really make the game...thats mighty impressive.

this thread's explosion shows that Perfect Dark Zero = Star Power and Status.

Very true. But the real shame is that this is at the neglect of other great games. PDZ has hogged the limelight even though other developers have been getting positive impressions for months, whilst PDZ has disappointed (up until now). The faith and loyalty to a game made by developers that haven't delivered in a long time, even after bad media, is kind of disconcerting.

 

[mj1108]

Lookin fuckin great -- except for the ragdoll physics. Plz fix it Rare.

 

[Amir0x]

No, I don't buy a system for a game that isn't a revolution.

(Yeah, suddenly bad Nintendo puns come to mind.)

But eventually such a game will arrive, so why do you care if this specific game is one? It won't change how good/bad a game is. It's also worth noting that not all revolutions are good.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Does it have to be 'revolutionary', or can it just be a really great evolution of existing ideas?

Which is basically how the FPS genre (and most others) have evolved in the last decade. Micro, not Macro. Yet we still hear the whole "just another FPS" argument everytime there's a new game that involves pointing and shooting without an avatar. The first (and last) "revolutionary" FPS was castle fucking wolfenstein, with gradual concepts and sub-genres growing from there. If you're looking for a revolutionary new experience, FPS clearly aint the genre for you.

 

[dark10x]

What's wrong with her animations? The enemy animations had some popping issues where they didn't blend well, but I couldn't see any popping with Joanna's movements (reloading, dive roll, ladder climbing, etc)

I don't necessarily mean that they are bad, mind you. It's just that the other two points are rather impressive while the animation isn't quite as much so. The city looks great, features fantastic texturing, and looks to be quite large. They also worked in some great shadow work which makes it seem as if we'll see some really nice dynamic shadow movement once an actual moving light source comes into play.

My expectations for animation are a bit unfair, I admit, but everything seems a bit stiff. I do kinda think they should not have taken the occasional 3rd person view approach.

Really smooth player viewpoint animations can look so impressive in action. Killzone on PS2 runs at a terrible framerate, has terrible enemy animations, and feels like an unpolished mess...but it's actual player weapon and movement animations are among the best I've seen.

Some games really nail the player motion, others don't fare quite as well. If you can run around in a room and have the simple act of running and shooting FEEL satisfying from a pure visual standpoint, you've got it. I want to feel as if the viewpoint has real weight to it.

Does it have to be 'revolutionary', or can it just be a really great evolution of existing ideas?

I'd almost prefer a great evolution, but I don't think we can judge this one yet.

That's what Halo did for us. It took a whole slew of concepts we had seen before and did each one better than almost any other game out there.

 

[raYne]

Neex, I see your point, but I was referring to constant revolutions not the fact that there were none.

In addition to what I said above I remember some facts about the damage system in the game. How it was seperated to temporary damage (is shock damage) that you can heal from such as a melee attack or jumping off a ledge. And permanent damge that you couldn't recover from (ie gunfire etc). Added to that the armor system and how while it does protect you from some damage there are still some weapons that can penetrate your armor.

Coupled with the previous damage systems, that could be counted as revolutionary.

I was reading some other forum, and someone hit it on the head concerning death animations. The way the enemy reacts to getting shot is like the Namco shooting game, Time Crisis. As far as the AI, I'm pretty certain it isn't that dumb, but the best thing about the game is it LOOKS to run at a solid 60fps. At least this low quality video is surprisingly smooth, unlike GoW which we know has a jerky framerate.

Most of all, though, this game looks fun. I don't even like FPS games, and I'm gonna buy this. No, the graphics aren't even close to the best that 360 or especially the PS3 have, but the overall presentation is ace. It does remind of GoldenEye, which is all that I wanted.

As far as multiplayer, headshots should be less common with the rolling. If you aim low, you will hit the rolling player anyway.

G-Fex said the same thing in this thread. He also said it reminded him of Time Crisis.

The AI issue was already addressed here as well. Easy mode + AI turned off.

Rolling is good and all but it isn't exactly a cure-all from dying. Yes it gets you out of the line of fire in a hurry, but it's already known that you take even more damage if hit while in the rolling animation.

 

[----]

It is worth clarifying that in this debug build many physics were turned off as well as the enemy AI. We suggest you to pay attention to Joanna’s animation, the size of the city and viewing distance.

That's good to hear since a lot of people were complaining about it.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It always amazes me just how many people who have stated that they have no intention to purchase the PDZ, rag on Rare, and generally make it clear that they hate MS or won't buy an X360 show up in these threads...stirring up shit to make themselves feel better, I suppose. The game looks great, but needs some adjustments. I'm certain that the build on display in the videos is far from done and will receive some alterations/improvements. In any case, the game looks fine, overall.

For those complaining about the 3rd person roll manuevers...it's the price paid to execute it and, as has been revealed a long time ago, incurs a heavier penalty to damage taken while rolling....it would've looked either lame in first person, or felt like you weren't rolling at all....see AHL for that...as much as I love AHL.

 

[fortified_concept]

*rollseyes*
Indeed.. that's why this statement..

..was made simply cause someone was comparing texture work.

If you're gonna "QFT" something, make sure you agree with all of it.

Learn to read. I'm not the one who started the comparison, on the contrary I was the one who wanted to end it. Yet you somehow managed to turn this against me. And it wasn't just one guy.

edit: Speevy you are not worth it.

 

[Fuma]

I think it's worth repeating, that is some of the best texture work and lighting I have ever seen. I just hope it looks that good if not better, when the direct feed vids come out.

edit...teamxbox has the vids up in windows media format

 

[rastex]

Really smooth player viewpoint animations can look so impressive in action. Killzone on PS2 runs at a terrible framerate, has terrible enemy animations, and feels like an unpolished mess...but it's actual player weapon and movement animations are among the best I've seen.

Some games really nail the player motion, others don't fare quite as well. If you can run around in a room and have the simple act of running and shooting FEEL satisfying from a pure visual standpoint, you've got it. I want to feel as if the viewpoint has real weight to it.

Ya, I hear what you're saying, but it's incredibly difficult to find the right balance between good animation and quick response. I never played the game, but from what I've read Killzone was a more slow-paced and tactical game, so it makes sense the player felt heavier. Whereas PD0 seems to be a more arcadey game so they sacrifice that weight for faster responsiveness. It pretty much comes down to arcade vs sim just like racing games.

As for the enemies the animation can be substantially improved which dramatically increases visual fidelity without sacrificing any kind of gameplay. Half Life 2 is a great example of great NPC animation while having substandard Player Character animation (the whole floating camera thing really bothered me).

 

[trmas]

Well if you want realistic, if your walking the action should remain smooth. If running, your aiming icon and the environment should shake a little. Ever run with your arms out like that? You don't glide when you run. Being accurate firing a gun while running is next to impossible.

Now, that WOULD be a pretty cool FPS, where the act of running comes into account when aiming a weapon.