Peacemaker Season 2 |OT| In what world is he the hero?

Keith doesn't seem like a big enough threat for a season ender. But I guess it was a season more about Peacemaker going through shit than him being a hero this time.
 
Hookshot said:
Keith doesn't seem like a big enough threat for a season ender. But I guess it was a season more about Peacemaker going through shit than him being a hero this time.
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I suspect we just saw the origins of the super villain for Peacemaker in season 3. Captain Triumph may fuck some thing up for Chris and he may have to kill him again!
 
poppabk said:
I mean the Nazis were white supremacists.
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That's a modern misconception.

They certainly were racist, but they didn't think white people were superior. They had a bizarre racial ladder that didn't group people together by skin colour. For example;

"Aryans" (specifically northern Europeans — Germans, Scandinavians, etc.) were at the top of this racial ladder.

"Slavs" (Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, etc.) were considered Untermenschen ("subhumans") — fit for enslavement or extermination. Near the bottom with the Jews.

They didn't see all non-whites as subhumans. The Nazis sometimes described Indians, especially upper-caste Hindus, as distant Aryan relatives, racially "diluted" but culturally linked to the original race. They put these non-white Hindus above white Slavs in their racial ranking. They even had Indian troops fighting for them.

So yes, they were racist, but they were not white supremacist.

Actually, racism isn't a fundamental part of fascism anyway. The vanilla fascists in Italy thought the Nazi obsession with race to be very bizarre. (I'm not defending fascism here, I'm just trying to clear up historical misconceptions)
 
Incredibly predictable season but I am still enjoying it. There was 1 episode I kind of tuned out of as it bored me but the rest have been decent to good.

I generally like all the characters which is rare these days. Fun group to watch, which is what Gunn is best at.
 
Don't see why Nazis winning WWII would jump to them taking over the world in the first place. Maybe take over europe for a few decades, but no way would they reach across to US or China
 
GateofD said:
Don't see why Nazis winning WWII would jump to them taking over the world in the first place. Maybe take over europe for a few decades, but no way would they reach across to US or China
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Question Mark What GIF by MOODMAN


The nazi's got the nuclear bomb first, and nuked the US and completely obliterated russia.
Why wouldn't they reach across and instill their rule on a nation that's already surrendered under threat of annihilation? No invasion needed, just waltz in and take it, any rebellion/freedom fighters don't stand a chance either because japan is on the other side and moves in from there, they are hopelessly outgunned and outnumbered.

Actual nazi's during WWII reached all the way to south america, but somehow they wouldn't reach north america in the scenario where they have practically no opposition anymore?
 
I was waiting for a "black people can't swim" bit when she jumped in the pool. Something along the lines of "No need to chase her anymore, she just done herself in." :messenger_beaming:

I'm a terrible swimmer, and my white ass would have walked right around the edge of that thing.
 
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I didn't see that twist with

Blue Dragon / Auggie coming.

It actually makes sense, though, and makes Chris's story all the more tragic. Many laughs, many sobs, this episode.

The preview of this week's episode looks fantastic. I'm thinking that

Argus poking around the other worlds will draw the attention of either Darkseid or Braniac. That or they're going to accidentally let Parasite enter our world. Any three of those could be the Big Bad of Superman: Man of Tomorrow, though I am guessing Braniac is most likely given the illustration on the cover of the script's first draft that Gunn shared on social media
 
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Great finale but based on rumors I was expecting a more direct lead into Man of Tomorrow. But in retrospect it's probably a little too early for that since MoT is still 2 years out and we've got Supergirl and Lanterns coming up next year that will probably sow some more seeds

Anyway, spoilers:
Flag Sr is one vengeful bastard. I mean, I guess I can't blame him but damn, he's basically in Lex's pocket now. Also apparently Salvation is a training ground for Apokalips forces in the comics so it's going to be interesting to see where things go.


As for my thoughts on the season as a whole... I have to admit I thought most of the episodes felt a little too short BUT one of my complaints about TV shows in general (and why I prefer movies) is the amount of filler in many shows to reach a certain runtime. This show doesn't seem to care about runtime (this season's episodes range anywhere from 28 minutes to an hour) and that's kinda admirable. Not to say that the show doesn't have any filler, but I think it's better to tell the story you want to tell than drag it out longer than it needs to be.


Final episode of the Season 2 podcast:
 
That was a good finale.

Gunn already confirmed all the principal cast will be back so that's good.

The final few minutes were a gut punch.
 
I saw someone describe this episode as indulgent, and I think they're right. I feel that the needle drops are too frequent, and rarely elevate the scenes, and that the extended concert scenes were more for Gunn than for the story. But I also liked that they had a subdued story this time around (not everything has to be about saving the world) and I like that they didn't do a big cartoonish battle at the end. Lots to like about the direction the story is going as well.

I like that peacemaker wasn't held to an arbitrary length for their episodes and allowed them to vary. But then why is it that the episodes were all on the shorter side? We could have spent some more time in the alt universe learning more about their characters.

Also I think John Cena's performance this last episode was not good. But maybe it's the material he was given. He was acting like a child this episode, reminiscent of season 1 performance.
 
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What a horribly boring episode holy shit, an hour where basically nothing happens, this could've been condensed into 25 minutes at best.
Seriously terrible way to end the season, all it was were some songs and dances and flag being a garbage person.
 
I think Flag makes a good point about the planet. They're forgoing trillions of dollars of resources, but metahumans literally are responsible for that much damage very year. So yeah i think it's a tough trade off to make a prison planet, but actually probably worth it. Not committed to saying he's a "bad guy" other than that he obviously wanted revenge.
 
I agree with the complaints about Gunn just cycling through a playlist. I like his works but that has always been my least favorite aspect of his directorial style, the "Playlist movie" feeling. Sometimes he uses it as filler like some moments in this episode.

Overall I think this season will feel stronger if the show lasts 3-4 seasons.

It's one of those season 2's where they focus more on character growth, specifically with Chris. Due to that it just leaves the audience wanting to see what's next.
 
The season would be at a 8-9 if it just ended at ep7 where it was at and left the rest to be revealed what they did in the next phase or installment of the movies.

With the finale, I put it at a 5/10.

Also reinforces that earth x is the better one, cause they're not attempting this stuff.

And what was the overhype from Gunn about crazy cameo or some stuff.

Also I guess Chris is right. He is cursed. Everything mess that's gonna happen is all cause of him. This other world prison plan would never have happened without him making bad decisions. He should have just smashed the device instead of handing it over. Why would he trust the government with this?[/SPOILER]
 
GateofD said:
ok, that was the most shitty finale ever. knocking down my score by a good 2-3 pts. an hour of shit.
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Wait that was the finale? Wasn't paying attention to the episode count but that did not feel like a finale. Were we supposed to care that much about 'the night on the boat' that we gave that much of a shit about actually seeing it that it made this a finale? I enjoyed some stuff but it feels like they built the entire season about a (non) relationship I don't really give a shit about.
 
I thought the last 15 minutes were a dream sequence at first, after they talked to him at the motel, the transition to them being friendly and happy was odd, like they skipped a few steps.

The whole series just feels so shallow to me.
 
Season 2 was kinda meh. It wasnt exactly bad but nothing really interesting happned. Only the eagle scene was interesting.
 
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This show is absolutely bad-mediocre for being an HBO one.

- Cheap looking/terrible cinematography.

- Story...it's a superhero/comic one, not giving a shit either way.

- James Gunn is a hack, the ultra juvenile "humour" has gotten long in the tooth with his work, people have a problem with the "writing" in Marvel movies also seeping through other media (rightfully so) but, he writes the same exact shit using toilet humour and excessive profanity, something which is neither original nor good, it's totally brainrot for the lowest common denominator.
It's not funny, it's not good, it's not original, it's just crass.

- The acting... Gunn's girlfriend not only is distracting due to all the plastic surgeries but she's also unable to emote properly 'cause of it.Literally one of the most plastic® faces in TV right now.
Adebayo...I don't know how this girl became an actor.
Glasses dude is OK I suppose but the "quirky" writing is not doing him any favors.
Chris is OK I suppose - something which is incredibly ironic being that Cena is not an actual actor.
Economos...hey look, it's Gunn's great writing® once again, tall-fat clueless crass dude, AMAZING !

Reason for watching the show is that - for whatever reason - I had started watching S1 2 years ago not having anything better to do at the time but between the super cheap cinematography and direction, uninteresting characters, bad, juvenile hack writing and mediocre performances I just can't, in fact, I wonder what the target demographic is for these kind of shows, surely it can't only be comic heads ?
 
I'm struggling to connect with the plot of the show. So Flagg wants to find a prison planet to throw all the metahumans......for life? What is a metahuman, exactly? Seems like (hottie mchottie) cyborg lady is considered a metahuman, but she is just using technology, right? What about Green Lantern? Or Batman? Or a hundred other heroes/villains that are just well trained, have alien tech, or access to magic artifacts? Hell, they say, over and over, that Lex is "the smartest man on the planet" so wouldn't that make LEX a metahuman threat and he is clearly boosted well above normal human intelligence? If Arkham can't hold folks, its probably because they are doing a shit job of just executing the mass killers. Peacekeeper and his cronies have such a low regard for human life that it boggles the mind that society as a whole isn't just all on board with summary execution of any person caught for callous mass murder. This is "hero covenant' broken when guys like Gunn have their heroes kill.

And the whole notion that ARGUS is just sending in teams of cannon fodder to scout out the doors, while it made a fun musical montage, really makes for a confusing message about where the good is in Gunn's world. Though I suppose ARGUS was never a 'good' organization.
 
jason10mm said:
I'm struggling to connect with the plot of the show. So Flagg wants to find a prison planet to throw all the metahumans......for life? What is a metahuman, exactly? Seems like (hottie mchottie) cyborg lady is considered a metahuman, but she is just using technology, right? What about Green Lantern? Or Batman? Or a hundred other heroes/villains that are just well trained, have alien tech, or access to magic artifacts? Hell, they say, over and over, that Lex is "the smartest man on the planet" so wouldn't that make LEX a metahuman threat and he is clearly boosted well above normal human intelligence? If Arkham can't hold folks, its probably because they are doing a shit job of just executing the mass killers. Peacekeeper and his cronies have such a low regard for human life that it boggles the mind that society as a whole isn't just all on board with summary execution of any person caught for callous mass murder. This is "hero covenant' broken when guys like Gunn have their heroes kill.

And the whole notion that ARGUS is just sending in teams of cannon fodder to scout out the doors, while it made a fun musical montage, really makes for a confusing message about where the good is in Gunn's world. Though I suppose ARGUS was never a 'good' organization.
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After the events of Superman, Flagg NOW sees metas as a threat and wants to get rid of them ... Not kill, but just get rid of them. He uses Chris as the first "inmate" because he wanted to punish (revenge) on who killed his son (even though it was Waller who ordered it). Flagg has been corrupted tho...

There is no execution in Gotham.

And Peacemaker isn't exactly a hero. The entire story is revolving around Chris WANTING to be a hero... Something he really isn't except for the season 1 finale (the whole team helped).
 
I blame Hawkgirl. The public cheered when the Justice Gang killed monsters and stuff. But I think actually killing the politician and not just stopping the civilian killing stepped over the line for many in the offices.

Green Lanturn counts as a meta, but gonna be a case basis, doubt they're gonna target him cause they don't wanna mess a war with the corps. The idea is for dangerous meta humans, but already we know ARGUS is/can be corrupt and just throw whoever they don't like there. Seeing already here with Peacemaker, who isn't even a meta.
When you consider that, i guess Earth X was the better and more fair Earth afterall.
 
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GateofD said:
I blame Hawkgirl. The public cheered when the Justice Gang killed monsters and stuff. But I think actually killing the politician and not just stopping the civilian killing stepped over the line for many in the offices.

Green Lanturn counts as a meta, but gonna be a case basis, doubt they're gonna target him cause they don't wanna mess a war with the corps. The idea is for dangerous meta humans, but already we know ARGUS is/can be corrupt and just throw whoever they don't like there. Seeing already here with Peacemaker, who isn't even a meta.
When you consider that, i guess Earth X was the better and more fair Earth afterall.
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Only for Aryans.
 
GateofD said:
I blame Hawkgirl. The public cheered when the Justice Gang killed monsters and stuff. But I think actually killing the politician and not just stopping the civilian killing stepped over the line for many in the offices.

Green Lanturn counts as a meta, but gonna be a case basis, doubt they're gonna target him cause they don't wanna mess a war with the corps. The idea is for dangerous meta humans, but already we know ARGUS is/can be corrupt and just throw whoever they don't like there. Seeing already here with Peacemaker, who isn't even a meta.
When you consider that, i guess Earth X was the better and more fair Earth afterall.
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But then what is a "meta"? Just any being that Flagg can't beat up with his fists? And Green Lantern himself underscores that there is a GALAXY of non humans out there, why not make a deal with them to imprison anyone from earth that's too troublesome?

Hell, Lex has his own portal prison and guess what....Superman escaped. In like a day.

Anyway, for a comic book plot it is fine. Stick Peacekeeper in the Grodd dimension, hi-jinks ensue.

I was really hoping for a Shazam cameo though.
 
This is the first time I've seen a show do a filler episode in the final one, that was pathetic. The whole fucking season was filler but this episode was something else

Rick Flag is somehow being controlled by Lex btw, are all the characters fucking stupid or something? He even forgot he was asking people to call him Rick instead of general
 
BadBurger said:
I guess we were wrong. Now I am guessing this will tie into Supergirl.
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No, the Salvation world is most definitely going to factor into Sup 2.

Supergirl is mostly set off Earth, as in space shenanigans, if I'm not mistaken.
 
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Sonik said:
This is the first time I've seen a show do a filler episode in the final one, that was pathetic. The whole fucking season was filler but this episode was something else

Rick Flag is somehow being controlled by Lex btw, are all the characters fucking stupid or something? He even forgot he was asking people to call him Rick instead of general
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I thought that scene happened to show how laser focused he was about Chris that he disregarded everything else, including his agents' lives.

It wouldn't make sense that he's being controlled by Lex because Lex called Peacemaker a clown, finds him harmless as a human, and doesn't care about him at all.
 
March Climber said:
I thought that scene happened to show how laser focused he was about Chris that he disregarded everything else, including his agents' lives.

It wouldn't make sense that he's being controlled by Lex because Lex called Peacemaker a clown, finds him harmless as a human, and doesn't care about him at all.
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It's not just that. He suddenly doesn't care about anyone in his team and keeps celebrating as everyone dies. Is suddenly obsessed with sending metahumans to this new dimension for no reason at all, in fact he opposed the metahuman plans before. Calls Lex Luthor a genius. Is suddenly cozy with Lex Luthor's employee

I mean, if there's nothing fishy going on it's a really retarded character development, if you could even call it that
 
adamsapple said:
No, the Salvation world is most definitely going to factor into Sup 2.

Supergirl is mostly set off Earth, as in space shenanigans, if I'm not mistaken.
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Ok. I thought

Salvation might be one of the worlds or dimensions Kara visits

On that note, I think I'll order the Woman of Tomorrow graphic novel that's an inspiration for the movie's screenplay.
 
That was a long 8 episodes for an origin story.
Checkmate

The only positive of the series was seeing how far Cena has come as a viable actor.
 
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Sonik said:
It's not just that. He suddenly doesn't care about anyone in his team and keeps celebrating as everyone dies.
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He was celebrating with the higher ups because they were making progress, showing the difference between where he lies and where those below him lie on the totem pole of importance. That's why those two agents (the funny one and the cyborg meta) both quit. They saw what was happening and how he was seeing red. He was not seeing them as equals but as employees under him, all as a means to an end, which is payback on Peacemaker.
Sonik said:
Is suddenly obsessed with sending metahumans to this new dimension for no reason at all, in fact he opposed the metahuman plans before.
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No, he was obsessed with sending Chris to the new dimension. He used the metahuman reasoning as a cover to get his plan greenlit. There was no way they would have greenlit his idea if he told them "I just want to put Peacemaker in this dimensional jail".
Sonik said:
Calls Lex Luthor a genius.
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He technically is.
Sonik said:
Is suddenly cozy with Lex Luthor's employee.
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He didn't want to use Lex so he used one of his more knowledgeable underlings who is also more expendable than Lex (who would be needed more as a last resort in the future).
Sonik said:
I mean, if there's nothing fishy going on it's a really retarded character development, if you could even call it that
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It's not that this isn't fishy, it's just that his hatred for Chris gave him extreme tunnel vision on all of this.
 
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March Climber said:
He was celebrating with the higher ups because they were making progress, showing the difference between where he lies and where those below him lie on the totem pole of importance. He was not seeing them as equals but as employees under him, all as a means to an end, which is payback on Peacemaker.

No, he was obsessed with sending Chris to the new dimension. He used the metahuman reasoning as a cover to get his plan greenlit. There was no way they would have greenlit his idea if he told them "I just want to put Peacemaker in this dimensional jail".

He technically is.

He didn't want to use Lex so he used one of his more knowledgeable underlings who is also more expendable than Lex (who would be needed more as a last resort in the future).

It's not that this isn't fishy, it's just that his hatred for Chris gave him extreme tunnel vision on all of this.
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That's even dumber if that's what it is. Ignores everyone and acts like a lunatic to find a whole new dimension to supposedly send metahumans there, and all that just to imprison Peacemaker when he could have just killed him or, you know, imprisoned him? (either way he's breaking the law) Again, either something is going on or this is supremely retarded
 
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Sonik said:
That's even dumber if that's what it is. Ignores everyone and acts like a lunatic to find a whole new dimension to supposedly send metahumans there, and all that just to imprison Peacemaker when he could have just killed him or, you know, imprisoned him? (either way he's breaking the law) Again, either something is going on or this is supremely retarded
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By secretly throwing him into the prison with no way out, he is still essentially "killing" him from the main world, but in a way that makes him suffer for the rest of his life in solitude on an unknown planet with no resources.

They showed Flag Sr. losing his cool and acting irrationally before when it came to Peacemaker by sending way too much manpower to apprehend him, putting way too much surveillance on him beforehand, then again later on when he almost beat him to death in the interrogation room and then playing it off as 'Oh this was done on purpose as part of my plan'.

The reason it doesn't make sense right now is because the audience was left hanging. We won't know if people will find out him and his team did this to Chris, if they will be reprimanded or face consequences, and how things will evolve or change from that point going forward. We won't know anything until another season, if there's another season.
 
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