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[Ken Masters]

Exactly

Yes, that is what the comment meant. You're not insane at all, no siree.

you're saying that a 6-7 DP would kill the program for good, but a 2-3 DP will kill it for a generation which is more suitable of a punishment


as if you insinuate that 14 years of child molestation cover up is not worthy to kill off a football program but to just damage it for a generation

 

[SolidSnakex]

ESPN is saying that they aren't going receive the death penalty. It's likely to include a loss of bowl appearances and/or scholarships. But they said they'll likely be seen as being on par with the death penalty in terms of how harsh they are.

 

[Plinko]

Also, I look forward to the B1G's response.

Same here. I would not be surprised at all to see them boot Penn State from the conference and get a replacement next year.

 

[Ken Masters]

ESPN is saying that they aren't going receive the death penalty. It's likely to include a loss of bowl appearances and/or scholarships. But they said they'll likely be seen as being on par with the death penalty in terms of how harsh they are.

of course not, football program is more important then anything. Fuck you NCAA

 

[Plinko]

ESPN is saying that they aren't going receive the death penalty. It's likely to include a loss of bowl appearances and/or scholarships. But they said they'll likely be seen as being on par with the death penalty in terms of how harsh they are.

Yep. Exactly as I thought. Too much money involved here for the death penalty. At a smaller school it wouldn't have surprised me at all.

I really like mre's idea of getting rid of scholarships. Sounds fair to me.

Keep in mind, though, that "unprecedented" could simply mean the way they're implementing the punishment, not the severity of the punishment itself.

 

[Ken Masters]

no bowl games!! oh my!!! the children have been redeemed!! Thank you NCAA

 

[Cheerilee]

Why it wasn't an instant easy decision to take down a fucking statue of a guy who covered for a child molester for 14 years is disgusting

and why is th library still named after a child molester cover up?

You get a statue for being a hero. You get a building named after you for performing some sort of service to that building.

Paterno covered up and enabled child rape. He's no hero. He deserves no statue. But there are still a ton of followers who refuse to believe that he was guilty. Or that if he was guilty, it somehow wasn't his fault. Or that if it was his fault, then his good deeds somehow outweigh child rape and still have enough left over to justify statues.

Even if the people in charge of the statue believe that he no longer deserves it, they have to be careful because they don't want to upset his misguided followers.

Whether these people in charge believed in Paterno or not though, they had to take the statue down, because it's a giant target, and defense is harder than attack. If they didn't willingly wrap it in a cozy blanket and forklift it into a windowless basement somewhere, somebody would have eventually destroyed it.


Paterno's name on the library is still going to be the target of attacks, but it won't be as heated.

Paterno's name will remain on trophies and in record books, because those only really get taken down if you're found to have been cheating.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Wish Paterno were still alive to see this.

Here comes the forklift!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think that people hoping for PSU to get the death penalty are going to be sorely disappointed. I do have some, not much, but some, sympathy to the argument that the loss in revenue would do crippling damage to the community as well as to other athletic programs. My views are also based, in part, upon the fact that teams with contracts to play PSU will be financially harmed.

If I had my way, PSU's football program would be hit with a total loss of scholarships. Allow thehe current football players to transfer, and, if they can't find a school to take them, then PSU will be forced to honor their scholarship though they will be unable to compete on the team, at least for a year or two.

2013 - PSU can award no scholarships
2014 - PSU can award no scholarships
2015 - PSU can hand out 5 football scholarships
2016 - PSU can hand out 10 football scholarships
2017 - PSU can hand out 15 football scholarships
2018 - PSU can hand out 20 football scholarships
2019-2024 - add back 1 scholarship each year

You can play around with that schedule a bit, but I think that's appropriate. It would devastate the on-the-field product, but if the fans wanted to continue going to the games, and funding the other sports, then more power to them.

I suppose that will do.

 

[SyNapSe]

But this 'they' you speak of, those complicit in the cover-up, are gone. Are you saying the institution, as a body, were responsible for the cover-up? Because I believe those responsible were the 4 conspirators, and obviously Sandusky. They had all the power in the instituton, but now they are gone.

So when people say "THEY" should be punished, it doesn't wash with me. "THEY" are gone, the people now in charge have zero to do with what happened in regards to the cover-up.

I wonder what the statistical possibility is that the only 4 people willing to do this just happened to hold these positions? All it would have taken was one of them to do something so it's would seem like a miracle. Or, it was a far more common belief to hold the football program above all else including protecting innocent children.

There's probably a thread of that at every traditional power school but not to this extent.

Of course, we have Mcqeary to account for also so were pretty much 5/5 on people willing to look the other way unless you feel like reporting it only to the football coach was a reasonable move.

As for the 4 conspirators you refer to as "they" one passed away and two are still employed by Penn State (at least at this time).

 

[Grym]

I really like mre's idea of getting rid of scholarships. Sounds fair to me.

While I'd prefer a multi-year DP, I'd be okay with that too. Also the Big 10 better kick them to the curb

 

[TheFatOne]

ESPN is saying that they aren't going receive the death penalty. It's likely to include a loss of bowl appearances and/or scholarships. But they said they'll likely be seen as being on par with the death penalty in terms of how harsh they are.

Not surprising at all. NCAA doesn't want to lose all that money.

Edit: If Penn State doesn't get the death penalty what is even the point of having it.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I propose they change the inscription behind the statue to this:

"They asked me what I'd like written about me when I'm gone. I hope they write...that I was a...football coach."

 

[Plinko]

While I'd prefer a multi-year DP, I'd be okay with that too. Also the Big 10 better kick them to the curb

Agreed on both.

Mre's solution with the scholarships is basically the same thing as the death penalty without calling it 'the death penalty.'

How many top recruits are going to go to Penn State without a scholarship? That alone will kill the program for at least 5 years.

 

[Amir0x]

you're saying that a 6-7 DP would kill the program for good, but a 2-3 DP will kill it for a generation which is more suitable of a punishment


as if you insinuate that 14 years of child molestation cover up is not worthy to kill off a football program but to just damage it for a generation

Because it's absurd. The punishment does not fit the crime. You will not find anyone more against child molestation than me, if that is possible - you can dig into my post history and find the type of venom I have for pedophiles.

Yes, the Penn State football institution needs to have a severe punishment. If you death penalty them for 2-3 years, the program would be dead for 10 years or more. That is sufficient. Because in your singleminded attempt to seek revenge (because the way you're acting, that's what it is), you're forgetting the good programs like this do. The money it filters into the community. The scholarships deserving kids receive, when they otherwise would never go to college. The systemic help a good college with a good football team receives.

What you want is not just punishing Penn State, but punishing deserving students and communities and more. THEY were not complicit in the Penn State cover-up, it's unfair to destroy the program forever.

You must strike a balance between punishment and needless revenge that just hurts everyone in the process.

 

[entremet]

I saw some Penn State students and alumni interviewed on ESPN about the statue removal. Talk about reality distortion field.

 

[twinturbo2]

I saw some Penn State students and alumni interviewed on ESPN about the statue removal. Talk about reality distortion field.

And that's why they should get the death penalty. This cult of personality is something you would see in North Korea, not in Pennsylvania.

If they don't get the death penalty, then it only proves how out of touch the NCAA is.

 

[giga]

A long drawn out bowl ban and scholarship suspension will kill their recruiting for a long time. Not really a death penalty, but making them essentially a Div II team is almost there.

 

[SerRodrik]

That's approaching a dangerous slippery-slope. 'Insular, football crazed' culture isn't unique to Penn State.

That's why the punishment has to be severe. It has to set an example for any other place that's fucking crazy enough to think that this kind of thing might be alright.

 

[Ken Masters]

People are still supporting and covering up Penn State, you're right about it being a cult, a cult that would throw child molestation in the bushes to save a program


Death penalty is the only fitting punishment to teach these football cults around the country a lesson. But they're not getting the DP so who fucking cares, this will just continue

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

i dont understand these defenders on espn

its like football is more important than human life for these people

I just watched the video.

One of them said:

"No offensive to the victims, but we're all trying to move on."

And that, right there, is the reason why this program needs to go away for a loooong time.

 

[diffusionx]

Death penalty needs to happen. I really don't see any way around it. The justification for punishments the NCAA always uses is "loss of institutional control" and there has never been an example quite like this. Taking away a dozen scholarships just doesn't fit what happened here.

I can't count how many times I have heard about Paterno being a "great man" from the internets the past few days. I said it before, the program and its history needs to be burned to the ground, Keyser Soze-style. It's the only thing that makes sense.

As for length of time, 2 or 3 years is enough I think. SMU got the DP for 1 year and the program is still irrelevant, though it's arguably on the upswing. It's been 25 years.

 

[harSon]

And that's why they should get the death penalty. This cult of personality is something you would see in North Korea, not in Pennsylvania.

If they don't get the death penalty, then it only proves how out of touch the NCAA is.

There are tens of thousands of students at Penn State....

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

There are tens of thousands of students at Penn State....

2,000 of which violently rioted.

 

[Plinko]

The death penalty won't happen because legal experts have already said that their current definition of the term "death penalty" doesn't cover what happened here.

As I said earlier, though, revoking/elimination of scholarships for several years and several years of postseason bans basically IS the "death penalty."

The program will be set back for at least 5 years, if not a decade. It will take a LONG time to recover from that, as elimination of scholarships will basically crush their team.

Here, the source who said they weren't getting the "death penalty" also said this to ESPN:

The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

That is a HUGE statement.

 

[Ken Masters]

2,000 of which violently rioted.

and those were just the extreme students, thousands more were likely cheering them on from their dorms or apartments

 

[diffusionx]

The rioting students are morons, many of whom have lived in the culture (built by Paterno, Sandusky, and others) for their entire lives. My guess is that, as they get older, have kids, etc., they will all regret it to the point where, in 10 years, nobody can remember rioting in defense of Joe Paterno. Kind of like the opposite of how there are 10x more people who remember "being there" for some big sporting moment than can fit in the stadium.

But it's not really about the students. It's the fact that the entire structure of Penn State was built around winning football games. Football games were deemed more important than anything else. That is insane to me, and while it's also true of many other schools in this country, no other school enabled a child molester as far as we know. That structure needs to be torn down.

 

[computers putin']

"No offensive to the victims, but we're all trying to move on."

a quote so silly, it just makes you wanna slap somebody.

 

[giga]

 

[Dude Abides]

Well well.

 

[kingocfs]

The death penalty won't happen because legal experts have already said that their current definition of the term "death penalty" doesn't cover what happened here.

As I said earlier, though, revoking/elimination of scholarships for several years and several years of postseason bans basically IS the "death penalty."

The program will be set back for at least 5 years, if not a decade. It will take a LONG time to recover from that, as elimination of scholarships will basically crush their team.

Here, the source who said they weren't getting the "death penalty" also said this to ESPN:



http://espn.go.com/college-football...-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

That is a HUGE statement.

As someone who doesn't follow college football, could you elaborate on that? What could be worse than permanently ending the entire program?

 

[giga]

Ah, penn state.

 

[Plinko]

As someone who doesn't follow college football, could you elaborate on that? What could be worse than permanently ending the entire program?

Well, you have to take into account the fact that the NCAA doesn't have the authority to actually permanently end the entire program.

Then, you have to look at the fact that the "death penalty" defined by the NCAA is a 1-year shutdown of the program.

If you give a 5-year postseason ban and eliminate their ability to give scholarships for a certain number of years, you basically have given them the "death penalty" for a decade because players with any talent won't go there at all, because they want to play in bowls and be given a free ride.

 

[Heysoos]

One small question here, but isn't the NCAA's death penalty meant for teams that break the rules and get a huge competitive advantage, like SMU's case? If so, shouldn't we expect different kind of punishment?

Edit: answered few posts above. Typing on phone sucks.

 

[Plinko]

Ah, penn state.

Oh no! The statue of the guy you probably never met and never had any contact with, who knowingly turned a blind eye to child rape, was taken down! How will you ever go on with your life?

 

[Knux-Future]

It's not like they were gonna make a bowl game with that team any way.

Their QBs suck.

But at least the statue is gone right...because that solved everything...right?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

I haven't been following this at all but to my understanding scholarships are awarded to students. Why punish the school if the problem were a few individuals who conspired to cover this up?

 

[demigod]

Whether these people in charge believed in Paterno or not though, they had to take the statue down, because it's a giant target, and defense is harder than attack. If they didn't willingly wrap it in a cozy blanket and forklift it into a windowless basement somewhere, somebody would have eventually destroyed it.

Yep, that's the real reason why its being taken down. There were already threats about it. If child abuse was the reason that they took it down, they would've done it right after Sandusky was found guilty. Not weeks afterwards.

Fuck Paterno and his family.

 

[freenudemacusers]

It's not like they were gonna make a bowl game with that team any way.

Their QBs suck.

But at least the statue is gone right...because that solved everything...right?

... Oookkk...

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I haven't been following this at all but to my understanding scholarships are awarded to students. Why punish the school if the problem were a few individuals who conspired to cover this up?

Because when you reach this point, you aren't trying to punish, you're trying to end a culture of corruption.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Oh no! The statue of the guy you probably never met and never had any contact with, who knowingly turned a blind eye to child rape, was taken down! How will you ever go on with your life?

I know. They'll need therapy for years to get over this atrocity. I mean to remove the statue of someone who enabled child rape for almost 2 decades. How could they?

Just totally makes me sick that there are still people trying to defend pieces of shit like Joe Pa who protected a child rapist for years upon years. They should be cheering that the statue is gone.

 

[Knux-Future]

... Oookkk...

sarcasm bro.

I already said ti was just a statue earlier.

I don't see what this really solves.

 

[Dude Abides]

sarcasm bro.

I already said ti was just a statue earlier.

I don't see what this really solves.

It solves the problem of having a statue honoring a man who helped conceal a serial child molester.

 

[Plinko]

I haven't been following this at all but to my understanding scholarships are awarded to students. Why punish the school if the problem were a few individuals who conspired to cover this up?

Scholarships are also awarded to athletes. Most likely, the NCAA will be taking way athletic scholarships, not academic.

 

[freenudemacusers]

It solves the problem of having a statue honoring a man who helped conceal a serial child molester.

^^

 

[GitarooMan]

It's good that some of these students get a reality check. Talk about a lack of perspective on the importance of fucking college football. It's like they think paterno is some deity or something.

 

[Y2Kev]

It's been said before, but the problem at Penn State is now cultural. Symbols of the culture need to be removed.

 

[MThanded]

sarcasm bro.

I already said ti was just a statue earlier.

I don't see what this really solves.

Symbols are powerful.

 

[Battlezone]

It's good that some of these students get a reality check. Talk about a lack of perspective on the importance of fucking college football. It's like they think paterno is some deity or something.

From Facebook:

rape of a child is wrong. but raping your students of there football team is wrong. oh and how you repersentives sneak out in the dark to remove joes statiute is wrong.

 

[Cyan]

What would be the purpose of punishing the current football program? We're the current players and coaches complicit?

What I really don't get is why they took down the statue. Why punish the statue? What did it ever do wrong?