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[Joe Shlabotnik]

Just out of curiosity....The Creamery pulled Sandusky Blitz as a flavor right? I mean, banana flavored ice cream with chocolate sauce and nuts.

This is a real thing? That's three too many euphemisms to be a coincidence. I swear that's worth investigating in and of itself.

 

[BigAT]

Coming into this thread and reading the Joe Paterno apologists and defenders makes my head hurt.

Enough of this nonsense about he doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. Enough of this "let him go out with class" shit. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were your son or little brother that was shoved into the wall of a locker room shower while he was being anally raped. Would you not care, because "Hey, the most powerful person with knowledge of the incident did the absolute minimum required of him under the law in order to protect himself?"

How many fucking football games do you have to win in order for it to be alright to defend and harbor a child rapist? Christ, all rationality goes out the window with this shit sometimes.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Coming into this thread and reading the Joe Paterno apologists and defenders makes my head hurt.

Enough of this nonsense about he doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. Enough of this "let him go out with class" shit. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were your son or little brother that was shoved into the wall of a locker room shower while he was being anally raped. Would you not care, because "Hey, the most powerful person with knowledge of the incident did the absolute minimum required of him under the law in order to protect himself?"

How many fucking football games do you have to win in order for it to be alright to defend and harbor a child rapist? Christ, all rationality goes out the window with this shit sometimes.

I think I'd spend more time being pissed at the rapist....

 

[Cyan]

How many fucking football games do you have to win in order for it to be alright to defend and harbor a child rapist?

400.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I think I'd spend more time being pissed at the rapist....

Or the 6'4" 200+ lb eye witness who went home and told his dad instead of kicking the shit out of him and calling the police.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Coming into this thread and reading the Joe Paterno apologists and defenders makes my head hurt.

Enough of this nonsense about he doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. Enough of this "let him go out with class" shit. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were your son or little brother that was shoved into the wall of a locker room shower while he was being anally raped. Would you not care, because "Hey, the most powerful person with knowledge of the incident did the absolute minimum required of him under the law in order to protect himself?"

How many fucking football games do you have to win in order for it to be alright to defend and harbor a child rapist? Christ, all rationality goes out the window with this shit sometimes.

Also, why is doing the legal obligation not good enough? Isn't the reason we have these requirements because we believe that is what is required of a person in those situations? Who gets to make up what JoePa was required to do? Should he have PERSONALLY carried out the investigation?

 

[BigAT]

I think I'd spend more time being pissed at the rapist....

No one is saying the rapist isn't to blame. Same goes for the AD, VP and any other administrators with knowledge of the situation.

If there was anyone in here defending them, I would react just as harshly towards them. No one is, because they're so clearly at fault.

There are some dopes, however, who think because a man won some fucking football games it excuses him from allowing a child rapist to function on his campus for almost 15 years.

Also, why is doing the legal obligation not good enough? Isn't the reason we have these requirements because we believe that is what is required of a person in those situations? Who gets to make up what JoePa was required to do? Should he have PERSONALLY carried out the investigation?

How about calling the police? A single time. Not the campus police, real police.

If it were someone you knew that was being raped you would be fine with his actions?

 

[Fenderputty]

No he IS Penn State, and he did what he had to do to make a problem go away and then forgot about it. He should now get institutional support from the university for making it what it is.

I think most people are aware he did the bare minimum. I'm not sure why you think he shoudn't have done more then that, but whatever. I really don't see how anyone can excuse him for essentially doing the bare minimum and then not even following up. Regardless of his legal obligations, he had the moral obligation to do more. I know I would.

 

[Dude Abides]

You're mischaracterizing my argument. I'm saying here that JoePa's wrong doing is relatively minor compared to what we've seen from other individuals. He's also done A LOT of good for the university. This is not the type of scandal that he would be unable of weathering with university support. He should be given that support.

If one of his players were a drug dealer, maybe. But when the subject is over a decade of child molestation and rape that his insouciance facilitated, that's going to trump winning football games in the minds of all but (apparently) the most rabid PSU fans.

 

[samus i am]

Also, why is doing the legal obligation not good enough? Isn't the reason we have these requirements because we believe that is what is required of a person in those situations? Who gets to make up what JoePa was required to do? Should he have PERSONALLY carried out the investigation?

Apparently he should have gathered evidence like he was one of the Hardy Boys and cracked the case himself.

 

[venne]

Also, why is doing the legal obligation not good enough? Isn't the reason we have these requirements because we believe that is what is required of a person in those situations? Who gets to make up what JoePa was required to do? Should he have PERSONALLY carried out the investigation?

If I see someone get hit by a car I don't have the legal obligation to help or even call for help. I can simply say, "Not my problem." and go back to enjoying my pop tart.

I hope that's not good enough for you.

 

[Lonestar]

Heard a 9th victim has come forth now

 

[tokkun]

Here is a summary of the case against Paterno, since many seem to be confused on why he is coming under fire:

Paterno must have known that Sandusky was a pedophile

• There was a 1998 investigation into Sandusky for similar charges that Paterno was almost certainly aware of. Sandusky is pushed out of the football program the next year.
• Paterno receives an eyewitness account of Sandusky raping a child by a member of his staff.
• In case there is any doubt over whether Paterno thinks the witness might be lying/not credible, he goes on to be promote him to WR coach within 2 years of the incident.
• Nowhere in the grand jury report or in Paterno's statement is there any indication that Paterno confronted Sandusky about these serious allegations to get his side of the story, despite having known the man for over 30 years.

Paterno had every reason to believe Sandusky was continuing to molest children

• Had there been an investigation or charges filed after the 2002 incident, Paterno would have known about it. He observes that nothing has come of the rape incident.
• Sandusky continues to bring young boys to Penn State events that Paterno is present at years later, including at least one closed practice. It is reasonable to believe that Paterno observed Sandusky in the company of these boys.

Paterno may have helped to protect Sandusky

• When Paterno went to his superiors about the shower incident, one claims that Paterno told them it was harmless horsing around and the other claims that it was vaguely reported as something "inappropriate".
• Paterno's public statement says that the graduate student told him that there was inappropriate behavior but it wasn't clear that it was serious.
• The graduate assistant's testimony states that he clearly observed rape.
• We don't know whether the graduate assistant reported rape to Paterno and Paterno downplayed it or if the graduate student chose not to give Paterno the true story for some reason, but there is room for doubt.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I think most people are aware he did the bare minimum. I'm not sure why you think he shoudn't have done more then that, but whatever. I really don't see how anyone can excuse him for essentially doing the bare minimum and then not even following up. Regardless of his legal obligations, he had the moral obligation to do more. I know I would.

Plenty of people in this situation that aren't being prosecuted had moral obligations. I'm saying he is getting treated with an undue amount of scorn. If anyone has their job there that knew about this when it is all over then JoePa got screwed by Penn State big time. I don't believe that this wasn't a "well kept" secret. If that were the case it doesn't seem unlikely that some pretty high up people at the University knew about it and took the same actions as JoePa.

 

[Sanjuro]

Paterno is expected to have a press conference this afternoon at his own venue to address the issues.

 

[Cyan]

Also, why is doing the legal obligation not good enough? Isn't the reason we have these requirements because we believe that is what is required of a person in those situations? Who gets to make up what JoePa was required to do?

legal obligation != moral obligation

Should he have PERSONALLY carried out the investigation?

Paging Dr Strawman. Dr Strawman, please come to the white courtesy telephone.

 

[BigAT]

Paging Dr Strawman. Dr Strawman, please come to the white courtesy telephone.

Hello, I'm Dr. Strawman reporting for duty:

Apparently he should have gathered evidence like he was one of the Hardy Boys and cracked the case himself.

 

[Hari Seldon]

No one is saying the rapist isn't to blame. Same goes for the AD, VP and any other administrators with knowledge of the situation.

If there was anyone in here defending them, I would react just as harshly towards them. No one is, because they're so clearly at fault.

There are some dopes, however, who think because a man won some fucking football games it excuses him from allowing a child rapist to function on his campus for almost 15 years.

You are being extremely reactionary with that 15 year bullshit. 2002 was the earliest you can place any blame on them. In 1998 the DA had the investigation, not Penn State, and they cleared him.

Sandusky was banned from holding his camp in 2002 right after this incident. That is what the two indicted people did as punishment for what McQueary reported. However, Sandusky held it at the Penn State Erie campus instead. However Erie claims they were never told about the McQueary incident. So did Joe know that Sandusky moved his charity thing to another Penn State Campus, a campus Joe has no control or knowledge of? I dunno, but I sure as hell bet that the AD and possibly Spanier knew.

 

[Ourobolus]

Paterno may have helped to protect Sandusky
[*]When Paterno went to his superiors about the shower incident, one claims that Paterno told them it was harmless horsing around and the other claims that it was vaguely reported as something "inappropriate".

It's been a little bit since I read the Grand Jury report, but from what I remember, this was Curley and Schultz, right? Even the report stated that their claims of what Paterno said were unreliable. Paterno had reported something "sexual in nature."

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I dont think anyone is saying JoePa should go to jail, but the standard to lose your job != standard of the criminal justice system. Considering what some college football coaches have been axed for lately, Paterno should be happy to just disappear into retirement.

 

[Fenderputty]

Also, why is doing the legal obligation not good enough? Isn't the reason we have these requirements because we believe that is what is required of a person in those situations? Who gets to make up what JoePa was required to do? Should he have PERSONALLY carried out the investigation?

I would think this case is a prime example of why someone should do more than legally obligated.

 

[Dude Abides]

Plenty of people in this situation that aren't being prosecuted had moral obligations. I'm saying he is getting treated with an undue amount of scorn. If anyone has their job there that knew about this when it is all over then JoePa got screwed by Penn State big time. I don't believe that this wasn't a "well kept" secret. If that were the case it doesn't seem unlikely that some pretty high up people at the University knew about it and took the same actions as JoePa.

You mean like Spanier, whose resignation is also being called for? Is your theory that there are other unnamed anonymous officials who must exist and must have known and thus Paterno, who did know, should be protected until every one of them is also canned?

 

[Schmitty]

.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

Is McQueary being charged?

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm a teacher for a high school. I have long standing tenure and considered to be the most important member of the staff. I'm granted a aide.

That aide has raped a student in my classroom and it has been brought to my attention. I bring it up to administration.

The administration lies stating there has been no sexual abuse. They take away my aide's key to the classroom.

That aide is still in my classroom. Years go by and more children are sexually assaulted.

I enter a PTA meeting over a decade later and bombarded by questions about the aide.

I AM LEGEND.

 

[Meier]

You are being extremely reactionary with that 15 year bullshit. 2002 was the earliest you can place any blame on them. In 1998 the DA had the investigation, not Penn State, and they cleared him.

It is not a coincidence that Sandusky retired the following year. Journalists have reported that he was informed he would no longer be allowed to succeed Joe as head coach at PSU and was effectively forced out. They knew he was molesting boys in 1998 but decided to sweep it under the rug.

 

[samus i am]

Hello, I'm Dr. Strawman reporting for duty:

I was unaware it was morally wrong to be facetious. I hope you don't force me into retirement.

 

[Brendonia]

No one is saying the rapist isn't to blame. Same goes for the AD, VP and any other administrators with knowledge of the situation.

If there was anyone in here defending them, I would react just as harshly towards them. No one is, because they're so clearly at fault.

There are some dopes, however, who think because a man won some fucking football games it excuses him from allowing a child rapist to function on his campus for almost 15 years.



How about calling the police? A single time. Not the campus police, real police.
If it were someone you knew that was being raped you would be fine with his actions?

In Pennsylvania the University Police are the real police with jurisdiction over this. The Lasch Building is on campus, when you live on campus you legall reside in University Park (not State College) and the UP are the ones who investigate crimes.

http://www.police.psu.edu/statestatutes/

6. to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts, apprehend, arrest, and charge criminal offenders and issue summary citations for acts committed on the grounds and in the buildings of the college or university and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner and prefer charges against him under the laws of this commonwealth. Except when acting pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. Ch. 89 Subch. D, campus police shall exercise these powers and perform these duties only on the grounds or within 500 yards of the grounds of the college or university. For the purposes of applying the provisions of 42 Pa.C.S. Ch. 89 Subch. D, the grounds and within 500 yards of the grounds of the college or university shall constitute the primary jurisdiction of the campus police.

I'm guessing this won't make a difference, but at least get your facts straight.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Is McQueary being charged?

One wouldn't think so being that the prosecution needs his testimony to convict Sandusky, and therefore would have to give him immunity in order to get it or he could plead the 5th.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It is not a coincidence that Sandusky retired the following year. Journalists have reported that he was informed he would no longer be allowed to succeed Joe as head coach at PSU and was effectively forced out. They knew he was molesting boys in 1998 but decided to sweep it under the rug.

No one swept anything under the rug, the DISTRICT ATTORNEY cleared him.

 

[venne]

No one swept anything under the rug, the DISTRICT ATTORNEY cleared him.

Decided not to prosecute does not equal cleared.

 

[samus i am]

Decided not to prosecute does not equal cleared.

Obviously this is all Joe P's fault.

 

[Salaadin]

Decided not to prosecute does not equal cleared.

What does it mean though? Why werent charges pressed?
Someone find Ray Gricar and ask him.

 

[venne]

Obviously this is all Joe P's fault.

Defend him at every turn, even when people don't bring it up.

 

[BigAT]

In Pennsylvania the University Police are the real police with jurisdiction over this. The Lasch Building is on campus, when you live on campus you legall reside in University Park (not State College) and the UP are the ones who investigate crimes.

http://www.police.psu.edu/statestatutes/

6. to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts, apprehend, arrest, and charge criminal offenders and issue summary citations for acts committed on the grounds and in the buildings of the college or university and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner and prefer charges against him under the laws of this commonwealth. Except when acting pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. Ch. 89 Subch. D, campus police shall exercise these powers and perform these duties only on the grounds or within 500 yards of the grounds of the college or university. For the purposes of applying the provisions of 42 Pa.C.S. Ch. 89 Subch. D, the grounds and within 500 yards of the grounds of the college or university shall constitute the primary jurisdiction of the campus police.

I'm guessing this won't make a difference, but at least get your facts straight.

I appreciate the clarification. Haven't most of the reports though said that the VP of PSU (or President, I can't remember at the moment) had control over the police force? Wouldn't that indicate it was campus police as opposed to the police of the municipality/town? Or are they the same thing?

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

One wouldn't think so being that the prosecution needs his testimony to convict Sandusky, and therefore would have to give him immunity in order to get it or he could plead the 5th.

This is the biggest problem I have with these cases. The prosecution has to rely on someone that is ready to testify that he witnessed the rape of a child FIRSTHAND, walked away, and thought his confession to his father and Joe Paterno absolved him of all responsibility. I can't even discuss Joe Paterno. He doesn't even come into the equation for me.

 

[ced]

No one swept anything under the rug, the DISTRICT ATTORNEY cleared him.

No one questions why the DA cleared him and then disappeared?

 

[Stinkles]

You are being extremely reactionary with that 15 year bullshit. 2002 was the earliest you can place any blame on them. In 1998 the DA had the investigation, not Penn State, and they cleared him.

You read it here first people. Eight years of covering up child rape is OK, but 15 is bad. Am I counting right?

 

[Dude Abides]

This is the biggest problem I have with these cases. The prosecution has to rely on someone that is ready to testify that he witnessed the rape of a child FIRSTHAND, walked away, and thought his confession to his father and Joe Paterno absolved him of all responsibility. I can't even discuss Joe Paterno. He doesn't even come into the equation for me.

Hey, he reported it to his superior! That is all you have to do to be a paragon of moral rectitude thrown under the bus by a sensationalist media horde!

How many games did McQueary win when he was QB? That may also play into how we judge his role in this.

 

[Meier]

No one swept anything under the rug, the DISTRICT ATTORNEY cleared him.

Yeahh... that shit means nothing and I guess you've never heard of Bill Cervone then. Bill is a Bull Gator (highest level Gator booster) who just happens to be in charge of prosecuting Alachua County where Gainesville is. Peep this: http://www.dawgrant.com/rant/MessageTopic.asp?p=936354&Pg=1

It should come as no surprise that Bill Cervone just let off another Florida Gator, Dominique Easley, 4 days ago: http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/33104460

 

[pxleyes]

Obviously this is all Joe P's fault.

So are you Joe Pa's son, or did you just enjoy Sandusky's advances?

 

[JimtotheHum]

Coming into this thread and reading the Joe Paterno apologists and defenders makes my head hurt.

Enough of this nonsense about he doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. Enough of this "let him go out with class" shit. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were your son or little brother that was shoved into the wall of a locker room shower while he was being anally raped. Would you not care, because "Hey, the most powerful person with knowledge of the incident did the absolute minimum required of him under the law in order to protect himself?"

How many fucking football games do you have to win in order for it to be alright to defend and harbor a child rapist? Christ, all rationality goes out the window with this shit sometimes.

I agree. People need to understand that yes, of course, the rapist and the guy who witnessed the act are more culpable, but that does not lessen what Paterno did, which is to do nothing!

If you were Paterno, one of the most powerful guys in the state, and you were faced with this information would you have just passed the buck and let this go on without investigating it further? If your answer is yes, then I feel bad for you. You are probably not a good human being.

 

[Salaadin]

No one questions why the DA cleared him and then disappeared?

The DA cleared him in '98 and disappeared 6 years later. I would think that if someone wanted Gricar gone because of his involvement in this, they wouldnt have waited 6 years. Unless Gricar came upon more information in 2004, someone heard about it, and took him out before he could do anything. Thats major conspiracy shit though and theres nothing to back it up.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Decided not to prosecute does not equal cleared.

What should Penn State have done if the authorities determined there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute? They already forced him to resign. Presumably they gave him the benefits like an office so that if he was not guilty, they could avoid a controversy of firing him since he was still seen as having good relations with the university.

Basically, I don't see how Penn State did anything wrong until McQueary eye-witness saw him in 2002.

 

[C Jones]

Looks like JoePa will not talk today. He left his house for practice followed by like 50 reporters. He said PS canceled the presser and he said he had hoped to get the chance to talk to media today and he drove off.

 

[Stinkles]

I agree. People need to understand that yes, of course, the rapist and the guy who witnessed the act are more culpable, but that does not lessen what Paterno did, which is to do nothing!

If you were Paterno, one of the most powerful guys in the state, and you were faced with this information would you have just passed the buck and let this go on without investigating it further? If your answer is yes, then I feel bad for you. You are probably not a good human being.

The fact that this is true is so utterly fucked up as to defy description. Scorched earth on this shit. College Sports is a cesspit.

 

[crowphoenix]

You read it here first people. Eight years of covering up child rape is OK, but 15 is bad. Am I counting right?

I'm sure you have a decimal point off somewhere.

 

[Schmitty]

.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

and 16803

Sorry, gotta represent.

 

[venne]

What should Penn State have done if the authorities determined there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute? They already forced him to resign. Presumably they gave him the benefits like an office so that if he was not guilty, they could avoid a controversy of firing him since he was still seen as having good relations with the university.

Basically, I don't see how Penn State did anything wrong until McQueary eye-witness saw him in 2002.

I wouldn't say they should have done more in '98, but I think the knowledge of the events in '98 make '02 a much more grand fuck up.