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[CrankyJay]

You generalized it about an entire campus with:

That's not my quote. LOL.

 

[eznark]

You generalized it about an entire campus with:

You no read so gud.

 

[Bowser]

You generalized it about an entire campus with:

You're quoting an entirely different poster...

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

I am shocked at how many supporters of Joe Paterno have come out of the woodwork. Listen, I like football too but I'm not gonna go up to bat for my team - the Bills, if they had harbored OJ Simpson as a fugitive.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

That is not how psychology works when backed into a corner.

Who is backed into a corner?

Who backed them into that corner?

Aren't the people in that corner actually there because they themselves ran there, so they could all gather together in their own little insular group, so they could escape the real world -- the world telling them the truth -- that their heroes are evil men and cowards who allowed a child rapist to live among them, to have an office on campus, and ultimately, to rape more children again and again and again through their own inaction?

So if they are in a corner, then yes, they too are cowards. Cowards who are afraid to face the truth.

 

[Hari Seldon]

That's not my quote. LOL.

Fuck then why did you respond to me responding to that? lol

 

[Sanjuro]

Says the man who posted this.

You still sound like an idiot. You can keep grabbing snippets of an overall point and try and make it work.

His actions come across more as premeditated than anything else. Those aren't the actions of a coward, they are the actions of a morally sick person.

 

[CrankyJay]

Fuck then why did you respond to me responding to that? lol

I thought it was an appropriate jumping off point. Sorry. =)

 

[C Jones]

Fuck then why did you respond to me responding to that? lol

Damn is it EVER a Penn Staters' fault with you!?!

I'm joking.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Who is backed into a corner?

Who backed them into that corner?

Aren't the people in that corner actually there because they themselves ran there, so they could all gather together in their own little insular group, so they could escape the real world, -- the world telling them the truth -- that their heroes are cowards who allowed a child rapist to live among them, to have an office on campus, and ultimately, to rape more children again and again and again through their own inaction?

So if they are in a corner, then yes, they are cowards. Cowards who are afraid to face the truth.

So not knowing the socially correct way to deal with your emotions is somehow being a coward? Imo it is called being a 20 year old.

This was simple flight or fight, only with the acitons of the crowd. You have 2 days of terrible news and everyone is depressed and not believing (flight), then the hammer falls with JoePa being fired and now it is fight time. It is anger over the entire situation spilling out.

 

[Slayven]

WHy the fuck are people rioting?

 

[Fenderputty]

You still sound like an idiot. You can keep grabbing snippets of an overall point and try and make it work.

His actions come across more as premeditated than anything else. Those aren't the actions of a coward, they are the actions of a morally sick person.

Your overall point was again? I'm an idiot and a fool and need help. Cause it sounded a lot to me like you've been almost feeling sorry for McQueary and all the horrible things he had to go through seeing.

 

[C Jones]

You still sound like an idiot. You can keep grabbing snippets of an overall point and try and make it work.

His actions come across more as premeditated than anything else. Those aren't the actions of a coward, they are the actions of a morally sick person.

I dunno. I think you're reaching but we will see.
Again flight is not uncommon in this scenario. Plus he went to the most powerful person on campus.

 

[wonderkins]

eznark is on fire. Love it.

And it's not for lack of understanding of an argument, it's because some of us reject the argument out of hand.

McQueary's culpable of being a cowardly fuckdick. No mitigating factor changes that.

 

[Sanjuro]

Your overall point was again? I'm an idiot and a fool and need help. Cause it sounded a lot to me like you've been almost feeling sorry for McQueary and all the horrible things he had to go through seeing.

I'm saying those things because you are desperately trying pin the tail on an argument point with me, but not bringing anything to the table. I've already stated I don't feel sorry for McQueary and you keep trying to assume I do.

I dunno. I think you're reaching but we will see.
Again flight is not uncommon in this scenario. Plus he went to the most powerful person on campus.

I'm not even bringing up the flight angle. McQueary worked alongside Paterno and Sandusky for a decade after seeing a ten year old boy get anally raped. Put the pieces together.

 

[Sysgen]

This is exactly what I am afraid off. Sandusky was above the law. And McQueary and everyone knew that. And were probably knew that reporting to COPS would mean nothing.

Again , not making excuse for McQueary. But he could be scared of his life.

There is a district attorney missing and declared dead with his harddrive recovered from the bottom of a river so you may be right and still who knows how deep this thing goes.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Mark May going on a tear: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7217029&categoryid=2564308

 

[Sanjuro]

eznark is on fire. Love it.

And it's not for lack of understanding of an argument, it's because some of us reject the argument out of hand.

McQueary's culpable of being a cowardly fuckdick. No mitigating factor changes that.

I didn't say having that opinion was wrong. I'm just explaining why there is more to his situation than a person who didn't go to the police. Problem with this thread is it is filled with people still trying to make argumental points. I try and give more information to one...I then have someone else trying to tell me about poor JoePa or white knighting McQueary.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I think he was speaking for himself too. When people crap on the entire uni I would think it drives him nuts.

Every single one of the people responsible for the fact that people are crapping on Penn State are people from Penn State: The accused rapist, the accused perjurers, the Head Football Coach that lives in a bubble, the willfully-ignorant fanbase and student body that refuses to accept the disgusting reality of the actions and inactions of those people, the stupid student and fanboy "media" trying to make this a media conspiracy or some bullshit, and the rioters -- Again, ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE EMBARRASSING PENN STATE ARE ALL FROM PENN STATE.

He should be mad at them, yet he's actually defending some of them, and instead blaming some murky bugaboo outside influence, be it the media or the public at large, or whatever.

That's craziness.

 

[eznark]

So not knowing the socially correct way to deal with your emotions is somehow being a coward? Imo it is called being a 20 year old.

You know he was 28, right?

 

[eznark]

I didn't say having that opinion was wrong. I'm just explaining why there is more to his situation than a person who didn't go to the police. Problem with this thread is it is filled with people still trying to make argumental points. I try and give more information to one...I then have someone else trying to tell me about poor JoePa or white knighting McQueary.

So give this additional information that us ignorant idiots aren't privy to. So far you've said you know more than me. Maybe, probably? I don't know. Let's hear it.

 

[outlawedprod]

http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/10/posnanski-forde-speak-to-joepaclas/

 

[Sanjuro]

So give this additional information that us ignorant idiots aren't privy to. So far you've said you know more than me. Maybe, probably? I don't know. Let's hear it.

...I've already posted a bunch of it. I didn't call you an idiot either. I'm not aware if you read the jury report or anything as many of the people in here have not.

 

[beast786]

There is a district attorney missing and declared dead with his harddrive recovered from the bottom of a river so you may be right and still who knows how deep this thing goes.

My assumption is that rumor about Sandusky pimping kids. Those people could be rich people/Law enforcement/Judicial etc etc.

It is not crazy to assume that was part of the reason that 1998 was hush hush and nothing happened.

It is very hard for me to believe that sandusky was openly raping kids in open and still all the line of people who knew about him never did anything. He knew he was well protected and people around knew about his power.

The guy seems like very very powerful man.

 

[wonderkins]

I didn't say having that opinion was wrong. I'm just explaining why there is more to his situation than a person who didn't go to the police. Problem with this thread is it is filled with people still trying to make argumental points. I try and give more information to one...I then have someone else trying to tell me about poor JoePa or white knighting McQueary.

No, I get that. And you're a good person.

Give'em a link to the Grand Jury findings and let them be edified. After reading that, every adult that had any involvement is a piece of shit. No prevarication.

When I wear a Bear's sweatshirt or attend Cal games (or a Husky sweatshirt for UW), I like to think that the stewards of the institution aren't bereft of civil morality. That they aren't cowardly patsies who go knock-kneed when a paedophile prowls the campus.

 

[C Jones]

I'm saying those things because you are desperately trying pin the tail on an argument point with me, but not bringing anything to the table. I've already stated I don't feel sorry for McQueary and you keep trying to assume I do.


I'm not even bringing up the flight angle. McQueary worked alongside Paterno and Sandusky for a decade after seeing a ten year old boy get anally raped. Put the pieces together.

I misunderstood your argument, I think. And I think we all did.

Eznark and some others I believe are saying he's a coward for running away from the shower incident. But you seem to be talking about his actions as a whole from 2002 on (as far as why he didn't talk to police). We are talking about two different things.

 

[Zzoram]

WHy the fuck are people rioting?

Because they like football and therefore support the coach, despite the coach being a piece of shit and doing nothing to stop his assistant from raping children on campus repeatedly.

 

[Hari Seldon]

You know he was 28, right?

Apparently you don't red gud either since I was obviously referring to the rioters.

 

[eznark]

Apparently you don't red gud either since I was obviously referring to the rioters.

Damn it! And I don't even have the "I went to Penn St. so it can't be my fault" argument. Sigh.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Every single one of the people responsible for the fact that people are crapping on Penn State are people from Penn State: The accused rapist, the accused perjurers, the Head Football Coach that lives in a bubble, the willfully-ignorant fanbase and student body that refuses to accept the disgusting reality of the actions and inactions of those people, the stupid student and fanboy "media" trying to make this a media conspiracy or some bullshit, and the rioters -- Again, ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE EMBARRASSING PENN STATE ARE ALL FROM PENN STATE.

He should be mad at them, yet he's actually defending some of them, and instead blaming some murky bugaboo outside influence, be it the media or the public at large, or whatever.

That's craziness.

The only people I'm defending are the rioters. They have justifiable reasons for being mad at the university. Not because the university fired JoePa, but because it seems everyone at the top of the university was a bunch of scumbags. But whatever, they are at least mad at the right people, if not for the right reasons.

JoePa I'm willing to wait for more evidence because he is the least guilty out of everyone involved.

Everyone else can go to jail for all I care.

 

[Slayven]

Because they like football and therefore support the coach, despite the coach being a piece of shit and doing nothing to stop his assistant from raping children on campus repeatedly.

College fans scare me, and half the time the crazies fans never went to the school.

 

[Sanjuro]

I misunderstood your argument, I think. And I think we all did.

Eznark and some others I believe are saying he's a coward for running away from the shower incident. But you seem to be talking about his actions as a whole from 2002 on (as far as why he didn't talk to police). We are talking about two different things.

I have no problem people believing he was a coward. I simply don't buy it. After reading the report, hearing the variation of statements since, and looking at his involvement with the program from that date...it just doesn't all add up properly.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Damn it! And I don't even have the "I went to Penn St. so it can't be my fault" argument. Sigh.

God damnit you got me once but you are not going to get me again.

 

[FStop7]

LOL

Yes, I'm sure outside pressures are causing all these people from Penn State to act absolutely crazy.

...

Perhaps a hat of some type would stop this offending outside influence from causing "the psychological response" you speak of.












Perhaps a hat lined with aluminum foil or something...

Hey man, lay off. We can't let a little old rape get in the way of FOOTBALL!

 

[C Jones]

I have no problem people believing he was a coward. I simply don't buy it. After reading the report, hearing the variation of statements since, and looking at his involvement with the program from that date...it just doesn't all add up properly.

Now let me ask you to be clear: you also think him running out of the locker rooms that night was premeditated? That's the area Im a little confused at when it comes to your thoughts on him. I know you think his actions after are.

 

[Sanjuro]

Now let me ask you to be clear: you also think him running out of the locker rooms that night was premeditated? That's the area Im a little confused at when it comes to your thoughts on him. I know you think his actions after are.

He knows exactly who Sandusky is and what he means to the program. He might have not had his full plan thought out, but he knew who he was running out on and why he was.

Say it was the janitor from Victim 8. He would have called the cops or possibly stepped in.

 

[marathonfool]

What are the Penn State students protesting exactly? The firing and media coverage? Seems like they are doing more harm to the university than the firing itself.

I read the 2nd victim summary from the Grand Jury. It would an absolute fantasy to believe Paterno didn't know the conduct was sexual in nature between Sandusky and the boy. At best he passed the buck, at worst he was grossly negligent and intentionally ignorant. Either way, I think it's grounds for a firing in how he represented the university.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

I think a healthy society has to define what McQ did a cowardly act. That doesn't mean that he wasn't also brainwashed within a larger environment, but turning your back on a child being brutalized like that is cowardly, period.

To synthesize the two points being made: a massive conspiracy of silence like what seems to exist at Penn State requires a lot of cowardice to function properly, in fact.

 

[C Jones]

He knows exactly who Sandusky is and what he means to the program. He might have not had his full plan thought out, but he knew who he was running out on and why he was.

Say it was the janitor from Victim 8. He would have called the cops or possibly stepped in.

Gotcha. That is definitely believable. My version varies but only slightly. It's basically semantics though.

 

[Sanjuro]

Gotcha. That is definitely believable. My version varies but only slightly. It's basically semantics though.

I'm not even aware of your points though. I was speaking primarily to eznark. While doing that getting trolled by another poster. All I read was the flight risk posting which I seriously doubt ever crossed his mind.

I think a healthy society has to define what McQ did a cowardly act. That doesn't mean that he wasn't also brainwashed within a larger environment, but turning your back on a child being brutalized like that is cowardly, period.

To synthesize the two points being made: a massive conspiracy of silence like what seems to exist at Penn State requires a lot of cowardice to function properly, in fact.

You can call it many things. I used the term "morally sick" to describe McQueary. The fact is you can use that term to describe practically every person involved to this point.

 

[marathonfool]

I think a healthy society has to define what McQ did a cowardly act. That doesn't mean that he wasn't also brainwashed within a larger environment, but turning your back on a child being brutalized like that is cowardly, period.

To synthesize the two points being made: a massive conspiracy of silence like what seems to exist at Penn State requires a lot of cowardice to function properly, in fact.

It occurs to me a culture of worship exists at Penn State based on the levels of inaction in the administration and the students reaction.

 

[Hari Seldon]

What are the Penn State students protesting exactly? The firing and media coverage? Seems like they are doing more harm to the university than the firing itself.

Well they are probably protesting Joe getting fired, but if you just expand that slightly to protesting the entire university administration, then you have a pretty solid protest reason.

But either way they are protesting because they are young and don't know how to deal with these emotions in a socially responsible way.

 

[C Jones]

I'm not even aware of your points though. I was speaking primarily to eznark. While doing that getting trolled by another poster. All I read was the flight risk posting which I seriously doubt ever crossed his mind.



You can call it many things. I used the term "morally sick" to describe McQueary. The fact is you can use that term to describe practically every person involved to this point.

Well I meant flight as in "panic" as in flight or fight. I think the mix of what he saw and who he saw made him flip out and bounce and not contact police.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

You can call it many things. I used the term "morally sick" to describe McQueary. The fact is you can use that term to describe practically every person involved to this point.

100% agreed.

A non-semantics topic, for those who have read the GJ report: what's the significance of the section after (I believe) the janitor catches him, where Sandusky prowls the parking lot a couple of times? Was he looking for witnesses? There aren't supposed to be any irrelevant details in such reports, but the importance of that info escaped me.

 

[Sanjuro]

100% agreed.

A non-semantics topic, for those who have ready the GJ report: what's the significance of the section after (I believe) the janitor catches him, where Sandusky prowls the parking lot a couple of times? Was he looking for witnesses? There aren't supposed to be any irrelevant details in such reports, but the importance of that info escaped me.

We don't know. I read over that chapter several times trying to piece it together.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

"During our own investigation, years later, the mother told us that she had been specifically instructed by state police not to speak with reporters. No charges were filed against Sandusky in 1998. With the mother cowed into silence, the incident remained buried."

That seems to indicate one of a few things...

1) The state police with involved in the cover up,
2) The state police wanted to build a stronger case by letting Sandusky commit a few more acts that they could charge him with, or
3) The allegations weren't that strong, and the police were trying to protect the victim's family from a potential defamation lawsuit.

------

On another point, I just realized that I am in a slightly similar situation as Paterno.

A few years ago, I did tech support at a Fortune 500 company. One of the guys that I supported was seriously creepy. Old guy, but I frequently found him cruising mail order bride sites. One time, I was trying to install something on his computer's D:/ drive, but saw that it was full and the only folder on it was "XXX" (I didn't examine the folder, but I can guess what was in it.)

Eventually, I left the company, and a few months down the road the guy who took over for me asked me about creepy guy. I gave him my impression that he was a creep and all, and new IT guy told me that he saw creepy guy looking at child pron. I distinctly remember him saying, "At first, I didn't even comprehend what it was that he was looking at." I told him to report it to his IT supervisors, and he said he had and when the supervisors were going to sit on it, new IT guy threatened to go to the police. I reassured him that was the right thing to do. Later on, I heard rumors that creepy guy had fled and that the FBI were looking for him, but never really followed up on it.

Fast forward to today, and I have a credible report about a guy with child pron, a guy who's wealth, technical incompetence, and creepiness tell me he probably paid for it supporting the molestation of innocent kids, and who doesn't show up as a registered sex offender. In fact, I see that he's now on the board of a charity "committed to promoting educational excellence." What should I do?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

The only people I'm defending are the rioters. They have justifiable reasons for being mad at the university. Not because the university fired JoePa, but because it seems everyone at the top of the university was a bunch of scumbags. But whatever, they are at least mad at the right people, if not for the right reasons.

What the fuck are you even saying?

The rioters were rioting because they fired Joe Paterno. Period.

That makes the rioters idiots. Period.

The students that caused property damage in the riot are criminals. Period.

Having thousands of raging idiots mixed with actual criminals as representatives of the student body of your University is embarrassing to the University. Period.

Defending the rioters is stupid. You are defending people who are helping ruin the reputation of your University, which lowers the national profile of your University, which eventually lowers the value of your degree from that University.

JoePa I'm willing to wait for more evidence...

Wait for more evidence of what? Paterno has said in his own words he should have done more to protect more children from getting raped.

Repeat that to yourself until you get it through your head.

He admits he should have done more...

to protect LITTLE BOYS from BEING RAPED.

...and he didn't do it.

...

THAT'S who you want LEADING your storied football team? Representing your University on the biggest national stage?

...because he is the least guilty out of everyone involved.

Wait...I thought you needed "more evidence?" Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind that "he is the least guilty out of everyone involved."

Sounds like you are only looking for "more evidence" if it clears Joe Paterno.

But let's go with your wonderful best-case scenario:

So, according to you, he's "least guilty" of not doing enough to protect little boys from getting raped?

Well fuck, let him coach the Nebraska game. Let him have his farewell tour. Let him retire with honor on his terms...hell he's the LEAST GUILTY of not doing enough to protect little boys from getting raped by his buddy!

...

DO you know how fucking SICK this sounds?

 

[ZedIndyLil]

Squirrel Killer, to clarify, the guy you have a credible report about today is the same creepy guy from years back? If so, do you still know new IT guy? He'd probably have hard evidence, would be a big help if you were to say something.

 

[C Jones]

100% agreed.

A non-semantics topic, for those who have read the GJ report: what's the significance of the section after (I believe) the janitor catches him, where Sandusky prowls the parking lot a couple of times? Was he looking for witnesses? There aren't supposed to be any irrelevant details in such reports, but the importance of that info escaped me.

I assumed he was looking to see if there would be any police activity or other faculty gathering around the scene due to the incident being reported.

 

[neutralgamer02]

This thread is growing too fast. What is this stuff about a child sex ring?

Also, I hope Pedo State loses federal funding for not reporting a crime.