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[Retro_]

It is thought policing though, and it's hard to take seriously because the objections are so trivial. There is no way to communicate with a person who believes that mentioning rape to /illustrate something horrible/ is wrong.

Ignoring that this way of thinking is lazy and wrong

How does this justify openly antagonizing your critics? I mean it's one thing to ignore them. It's another to do what the people at Penny Arcade did, and still are doing apparently.

But how much comedy is being laughed at by literally no one? As long as we live in a world where Family Guy has an audience, I can't believe that there is any.

I'm speaking in general. In general as an individual, when you're trying to make something you want people to like, it'd be in your best interest to listen to feedback from people.

but speaking realistically, you're always going to have an audience when you appeal to the lowest common denominator. Part of the reason people like Daniel Tosh and Family Guy writers and Penny Arcade get away with the things they do is that their audiences are so massive and so ignorant that they can afford to lose a few in situations like this, and the larger part of their audience will be completely unaware there was ever an issue.

but I don't know why they'd even be brought up as examples in a discussion about artistic integrity to begin with.

Just because a joke is controversial doesn't mean that it didn't go down well with the audience. The audience is not a monolithic entity, so it is hard if not altogether impossible to offend them all.

It does though. If you have a group of people who generally like what you're doing and are positive about it, and all of a sudden they give you feedback along the lines of "hey that rape joke wasn't cool", then you have something that didn't go over well with your typical, intended audience.

I mean by that logic it doesn't mean a joke went over well with your audience because a few people liked it.

it's not like this is all some outside interest group attacking penny arcade.(although some probably is, as with any controversy involving something this large and visible) It's regular female readers(and *gasp* some male readers) talking to the guy as fans and friends. and he's just being hardheaded and antagonistic about it for no reason

In this particular instance, just as there are some people who got worked into a lather over the dickwolves joke, there are others who understood that it was a joke about MMOs (and not rape) and found it hilarious. In fact, many (perhaps even most) of the people jumping on the anti-dickwolves bandwagon were not even part of Penny Arcade's target audience and only found out about it through feminist blogs in the first place. I don't think it makes sense for PA to weigh the opinions of those people as heavily as they do the opinions of their actual fans.

Yeah that's how people usually justify discarding negative criticism. The people praising and confirming my world view and art are my "actual fans". Everyone else is just a hater.

 

[akira28]

I don't know. I am not offended by it, but I have pretty thick skin. Others do not and that's ok. I know rape is not right but if someone jokes about it its on them how public reacts to them. I will not judge them on it though. Actions speak louder than words in my opinion.

I'll judge them based on the details. They used the rape as a way to show how useless, irrelevant, and hypocritical some game writing is. I thought it made a great point about bad fiction and how even the makers don't give a fuck, and how it fucks us all over.

But some people want to use their common sense hammers because someone used the word 'rape' in a joke. Well you know, that's fine. Just don't be surprised when someone stands up to put you in check.

 

[BobbyRobby]

but is comedy made for the purpose of being laughed at by no one really comedy?

I don't see how being open to criticism and the idea that "hey, maybe I have some things wrong here" clashes with freely speaking your mind but I don't really want to get pulled into this censorship debate.

For what it's worth, Louis C.K, another comedian notorious for saying offensive things had this to say about this never ending debate

like others have said, their audience is down with the joke, further evidenced by the cheers they received for saying they should have never pulled the merch. they shouldn't be altering their material for the benefit of feminist bloggers who aren't fans of theirs.

i agree with what louie said. people should be open to criticism, and it doesn't seem like the penny arcade dude is very good at taking it.

though a lot of the 'criticism' coming from feminists seems more like condemnation. they seem to have taken the joke out of context and are blasting it simply for its subject matter.

 

[Version 3.0]

And for god's sake, if people attack you from all sides, it's hard to be polite. Like some comes out of the blue and asks you about how you feel for promoting rape culture. Dafuq.

They're not being "attacked from all sides". They're very popular, and I imagine the praise comes in at least as fast as the criticism.

 

[Lime]

Devs, pubs and consumers should boycott PAX for the shit the two creators and their community are doing.

 

[Pallie]

Rape is never funny. Unless it's this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_urvjCXg6c

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

This is a pretty common line of argument, but I've never really understood it. We shouldn't be as considerate of the feelings of people who have had loved ones murdered as we are of the feelings of rape victims and their loved ones because there aren't as many of them?

I think it's a pretty poor argument for censorship. It's a strong augment with why people may be offended by rape in any kind of fictitious context and thus it's pretty stupid to claim people are over-reacting.

I have no issue with the comic but as others have said Mike's continuing and vocal apathy towards anybody different to himself is pathetic and people shouldn't be cheering him for it.

 

[Axass]

Let's not forget the mess they made from treating Jessica Nigiri the way they did last year. Want to stop misogyny in the gaming community. Getting rid of Krahulik and whoever else keeps being the dickcheeses that make these dumbass decisions and comments at PA would be a great start.

That's a great, impartial OP.

Now seriously, I can understand people being sensitive to this kind of jokes. Though in the comic there wasn't any endorsement of rape, rape wasn't even the punchline. The punchline was the player not caring whatever happened to the NPCs after he met his quota for the quest. Is that so hard to understand for so many people? The joke could've revolved on the prisoners being killed that night if they weren't saved, would that have been more appropriate?

The answer would be yes, going by the general consensus. Though it makes no sense, rape isn't more appropriate/worse than murder, is it? I guess it depends from person to person, but we could generally say that both are absolutely terrible things. Though you don't hear anybody complaining that murder/death jokes are inappropriate? We kill hundreds in games and we defend our right to do so against censorship and the such.

What I get from this is that, yes, in this case people have been greatly oversensitive, and that there has been a great deal of white-knighting involved to transform the matter in what it is right now. Especially from developers and journalists, that sometimes feel the need to "do the right thing", as in what is more politically correct, no matter who's right or wrong. See the whole Dragon's Crown debacle, giving high praise (9-10) to an interactive novel such as Gone Home, defending poor Phil Fish who was bullied by everybody (while they were choking on his dick).

*cue people accusing me of encouraging misoginy*

Misoginy, intolerance, racism, hate towards minorities are all very much existing problems that society will have to deal with, right now and in the coming decades. But frankly sometimes people're finding these things where there aren't any at all, for example in 99% of games. Everything games stand for has been demonized since the dawn of gaming, but that was from outside the gaming industry, now we've come to a point where the gaming industry is demonizing itself.

Of course all of this is just my opinion.

 

[RockTurtle]

Anyone else have the feeling the whole "complaining about the comic" thing the PA defenders are doing is not because they misunderstand what the problem is (because I think they actually do know what the argument really is), but because they can't meaningfully defend PA's douchebaggery over the controversy of said comic strip episode, and this is them trying to redirect the point of the argument? Anyone else see this happening?

i don't think people are so much defending PA than it's gone beyond the scope of "Gabe is an idiot who loves to fight and you are using him as justification for something on a grander scale"

 

[Lime]

http://elizabethsampat.com/quit-fucking-going-to-pax-already-what-is-wrong-with-you/

 

[blitzcloud]

Anyone else have the feeling the whole "complaining about the comic" thing the PA defenders are doing is not because they misunderstand what the problem is (because I think they actually do know what the argument really is), but because they can't meaningfully defend PA's douchebaggery over the controversy of said comic strip episode, and this is them trying to redirect the point of the argument? Anyone else see this happening?

I edited. I barely like anything PA does. They handled it in a poor way (like they always do), but that doesn't mean the hate wasn't created and directed to them before any kind of reply and no amount of kind words can undo that. The damage has been done as they say. You can politely refute anything you want, they won't drop the pitchforks. Some may drop the hate (hell, the hate will vanish over the time by itself), but you will still be the tasteless guy that joked about a horrific experience. And that would really hit me if I was the one doing the comic. I probably would not react the same way they did though. People react in different ways when under pressure.

Also i'll say it here and now: most people lack the ability to create an educated opinion by themselves, so they join the bandwagon of whatever is popular. Hating is a very fashionable bandwagon. Fight the power and all that.

 

[luxarific]

Lol, they cannot just let this die. I can guarantee that Khoo's internal monologue ran something along the lines of "nononono, time for "no comment", guys, gahhh".

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Seems a bit stupid to reignite this. The guy keeps putting his foot in his mouth. Are we going to see yet another regretful apology?

 

[Adam Blue]

Mike has been apologetic, but his detractors have been no different than the Anita angst and CoD-weapon patch-crazies. How do you deal with that shit? He's just a human male.

He is just like you and me. He likes games, comics, and joking. Except, he is in a spotlight. He isn't a super hero that needs to be held at some radical standard. Though, super hero is appropriate for what they've done with Child's Play, whether you like them or not.

 

[Retro_]

like others have said, their audience is down with the joke, further evidenced by the cheers they received for saying they should have never pulled the merch. they shouldn't be altering their material for the benefit of feminist bloggers who aren't fans of theirs.

i agree with what louie said. people should be open to criticism, and it doesn't seem like the penny arcade dude is very good at taking it.

though a lot of the 'criticism' coming from feminists seems more like condemnation. they seem to have taken the joke out of context and are blasting it simply for its subject matter.

I guess dude.

I'm just bummed that so many people seem to think comedy is almost purely some narcissistic outlet and that there's no room for criticism or debate or taking the feelings of others into consideration.

If you don't like it you're expected to just walk away quietly. Anyone who doesn't is assigned some label like "feminist" and dismissed accordingly.

 

[FyreWulff]

Lol, they cannot just let this die. I can guarantee that Khoo's internal monologue ran something along the lines of "nononono, time for "no comment", guys, gahhh".

Khoo, the guy that okayed the original printing of the shirts?

He was probably thinking this:

$_$

 

[Pie and Beans]

This is pretty much my go to poster child example case for the internet outrage machine at its absolute finest/worst. Dawkins vs "Woman in a Lift" comes a close 2nd with its villainising of all men as rapists, but thats less funny so its not choice example meats for light conversation.

I'm no longer a fan of PA due to their shady as all hell Kickstarter ethics and the fact the comic is no longer funny at all, but the original Dickwolves strip was hilarious. The internet crashing against PA like the waves of an angry ocean over it was frankly absurd and as bitchy humorists it was unsurprising they bit back with withering sarcasm.

Its an often low brow comic strip about violence and swearing, I'm not sure what the desired outcome was? Never use the r word ever again because hivemind censorship is a goal of the internet nowadays?

 

[140.85]

http://elizabethsampat.com/quit-fucking-going-to-pax-already-what-is-wrong-with-you/

"Mike and Jerry posted a rape joke."

That's misleading.

 

[CambriaRising]

http://elizabethsampat.com/quit-fucking-going-to-pax-already-what-is-wrong-with-you/

Great, attack the reader when all else fails. And compare Mike to a man who brutally beat a woman to the point of her being unrecognizable. Thats fair.

 

[Lime]

But Elizabeth Sampat basically sums up how I feel in her piece here. Do you want to be part of a community where we listen and learn when we upset people by accident? Or one where we’re encouraged to become ever more militantly self-righteous and make jokes at the expense of people we alienate?

It’s not a crime to misspeak, or to be ignorant. You are not a bad person simply because you’ve never learned to think about the needs of people less fortunate or less-heard than yourself. But your goodness — and more importantly, your potential to do good in the world as a major organization like Penny Arcade — is determined by what you do after the mistake, when the harm you’ve done is pointed out to you.

When you have the opportunity to make a huge difference as respected figures in a community, do you use it to broadcast your own self-righteousness, or to teach people to be better to one another? Do you learn from the mistake, or do you keep making more, with such stubbornness and consistency that people begin to suspect you’re probably either deeply troubled or at worst, a terrible ass?

It shouldn’t be a tough choice. One in six women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. Your friends, moms, sisters, daughters, partners (and let’s remember rape is not uniquely a women’s problem — far from it). How would you feel as a parent (and the PA founders are dads), or a colleague, or friend of a survivor, as part of an organization that probably still has boxes of Dickwolves shirts lying around?

These shirts were printed to make fun of the outrage of survivors and the people who care about them. They are literally an emblem of a refusal to care, and Mike Krahulik has just said he “regrets” pulling them from the merchandise table. And people cheered. PAX is still a place where people cheer for this.

http://leighalexander.net/still-never-going-to-pax/

 

[darkpower]

I edited. I barely like anything PA does. They handled it in a poor way (like they always do), but that doesn't mean the hate wasn't created and directed to them before any kind of reply and no amount of kind words can undo that. The damage has been done as they say. You can politely refute anything you want, they won't drop the pitchforks. Some may drop the hate (hell, the hate will vanish over the time by itself), but you will still be the tasteless guy that joked about a horrific experience. And that would really hit me if I was the one doing the comic. I probably would not react the same way they did though.

Well, it wasn't just you (well, it was you pre-edit). There are people who are redirecting as a way to avoid having to try to explain off something from someone they're defending to the death here.

The worst thing, I think, about this is that he brought it up in a vacuum. The article made no mention of this being as an answer to an audience member's question or anything of the sort. It just came out of nowhere with him having no reason what-so-ever to bring it up. Unless another source somewhere made light of someone asking a panel about it (I haven't watched that video yet because I don't know if I really want to given the irritation I have already towards these guys(, that's got to be the worst thing.

 

[luxarific]

Khoo, the guy that okayed the original printing of the shirts?

He was probably thinking this:

$_$

I'm 100% certain that he's the one that persuaded Mike that the merch should be removed from the store (don't think that Jerry particularly cares one way or the other). I'm also 100% certain that he really, really didn't want to see this controversy resurrected yet again.

 

[plagiarize]

Try to find some videos of Stewart Lee talking about political correctness and/or Top Gear to understand why the whole 'it's just a joke' defense is no defense at all. The point of freedom of speech, the reason is works, is that you are culpable for what you say. 'It was just a joke' is a terrible climb down trying to wash your hands of the responsibility that comes with freedom of speech.

And I say that as a staunch defender and a self professed freedom of speech absolutist.

 

[Feep]

I personally feel that *every topic* is a topic to be joked about, because whatever. If you're offended, go elsewhere. And I don't personally believe that rape is inherently worse than, say, horrible bloody murder, but that's joked about all the goddamn time.

I suppose it's a crime that affects a certain subset of people far more than the other, but so are hate crimes on race, and so on. Asking comics and comedians to stop referencing these topics entirely would be nearly ludicrous.

I don't appreciate crass humor, personally, but telling a rape joke is not necessarily equal to degrading or demeaning women, especially when obviously told in an impossible fantasy context.

 

[besada]

I guess dude.

I'm just bummed that so many people seem to think comedy is almost purely some narcissistic outlet and that there's no room for criticism or debate or taking the feelings of others into consideration.

If you don't like it you're expected to just walk away quietly. Anyone who doesn't is assigned some label like "feminist" and dismissed accordingly.

You're welcome to complain about it. I might even agree with you, not being the artist in question. But if an artist/comedian/writer/etc. creates a work, it's presumed he stands behind that work. Again, a bunch of different art offends. The artist of the work isn't compelled to apologize simply because someone got offended by their art.

Those offended are welcome to complain, they're welcome to boycott, they're welcome to use any legal resource they have to express their dissatisfaction with the piece. But there's no guarantee that the artist in question is going to agree with them. And if he thinks they're wrong, he shouldn't agree with them.

In this case, Mike thought those complaining were very wrong. They thought he was very wrong. Both sides then engaged in some ugly trollicious behavior against the other side when pressed. Neither side came out looking particularly reasonable.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Mike has been apologetic, but his detractors have been no different than the Anita angst and CoD-weapon patch-crazies. How do you deal with that shit? He's just a human male.

He is just like you and me. He likes games, comics, and joking. Except, he is in a spotlight. He isn't a super hero that needs to be held at some radical standard. Though, super hero is appropriate for what they've done with Child's Play, whether you like them or not.

The thing is: if he's going to portray himself as respectable enough to personally represent philanthropic efforts like Child's Play and community events like PAX, he should at least act like it in his public persona. It's just what you do when you decide to take on responsibility like that.

 

[darkpower]

Mike has been apologetic, but his detractors have been no different than the Anita angst and CoD-weapon patch-crazies. How do you deal with that shit? He's just a human male.

Mike's apology strikes me as someone a five year old would say after being told to sit in a corner by their mother. Doesn't come off as very sincere, but rather condescending. If he really was sorry, then why in the HELL did he bring it up to begin with?

 

[FStop7]

It was never the joke that bothered me, it was the follow on behavior.

Scroll down to the "January 29, 2011" entry. That's where things start to go to shit.

http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline

 

[Gentleman Jack]

"Mike and Jerry posted a rape joke."

That's misleading.

Among other misleading things in that blog

An Enforcer was accused of sexually assaulting a woman using the Enforcer network as a way to get closer to her, and Penny Arcade covered it up and did not address it publicly.

Every part of this is conjecture-fueled incitement.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm 100% certain that he's the one that persuaded Mike that the merch should be removed from the store (don't think that Jerry particularly cares one way or the other). I'm also 100% certain that he really, really didn't want to see this controversy resurrected yet again.

"Robert Khoo, the company's President of Business Development, who was acting as chair for the discussion and had been behind the decision to stop selling in the first place, agreed, saying that doing so was "a way of engaging", which they now try not to do "in these type of things"."

 

[Lime]

Feep, it's more of the hostile reaction to the rape survivors' objection to the joke that is the blunt of the criticism than the joke itself.

If you tell a crass joke and someone tells you they were hurt by the joke, you don't mock and make an entire campaign out of mockery of the hurted person. Especially not as a very popular organisation that many people follow and listen to.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Just to be clear - are you saying that Mike is NOT an asshole?

Speaking for myself, as a gentleman, if I say something that offends someone - even if they misunderstood me - I'm happy to say "sorry, I didn't mean to offend you" and then let it go, even if they won't.

And I don't think "insufficiently sensitive response" is remotely accurate. It looks more like he's gone out of his way to say "fuck you" to anyone who thinks he's in the wrong.

I'm not offended by the comic, by the way.

Oh we wouldn't want to be impolite and insufficiently deferential to the people crying rape apologist. We must treat their dickwolf-rape related concerns with all due sincerity.

 

[slayn]

The thing is: if he's going to portray himself as respectable enough to personally represent philanthropic efforts like Child's Play and community events like PAX, he should at least act like it in his public persona. It's just what you do when you decide to take on responsibility like that.

He should act however he wants to act. Especially when the way he is acting gets him mountains of money, power, and cheering.

 

[Feep]

Feep, it's more of the hostile reaction to the rape survivors' objection to the joke that is the blunt of the criticism than the joke itself.

If you tell a crass joke and someone tells you they were hurt by the joke, you don't mock and make an entire campaign out of mockery of the hurted person. Especially not as a very popular organisation that many people follow and listen to.

That's true. Penny Arcade is absolutely awful at handling public relations...the whole Mike "a woman is a thing with a vagina" thing awhile back shows that.

But not going to PAX because of that stuff is silly. The vibe at PAX is FAR better than almost every other convention I go to, especially at places like the Hey Ash panel (where they aired their season finale devoted entirely to women in gaming and it was extremely well received).

San Diego Comic Con is probably the worst place for nerd women in the country. = P

 

[Omegasquash]

This is pretty much my go to poster child example case for the internet outrage machine at its absolute finest/worst. Dawkins vs "Woman in a Lift" comes a close 2nd with its villainising of all men as rapists, but thats less funny so its not choice example meats for light conversation.

I'm no longer a fan of PA due to their shady as all hell Kickstarter ethics and the fact the comic is no longer funny at all, but the original Dickwolves strip was hilarious. The internet crashing against PA like the waves of an angry ocean over it was frankly absurd and as bitchy humorists it was unsurprising they bit back with withering sarcasm.

Its an often low brow comic strip about violence and swearing, I'm not sure what the desired outcome was? Never use the r word ever again because hivemind censorship is a goal of the internet nowadays?

I agree with this, and I'm not the big fan that I used to be thanks to Kickstarter as well. I don't think rape is a topic to be made light of, however I'm really sure that anyone who read a rape joke in the comic read the wrong thing.

That said, I think that the shirts are another ball of wax. Dickwolf is a funny word, sure. But the context that they're rapists, then plastering that on a shirt, buying it and wearing it associates you with fictional things that rape other things to sleep. Just seems a bit off to me. I mean, they can sell it if they want to, and whoever wants to wear it can wear it but...I'm struggling to find a reason outside of attention getting that you'd want to. I think the shirts are in bad taste. I think pulling the merch was the right thing to do for the image of PA Inc., but I don't see anything wrong with the comic.

 

[Patryn]

Mike's apology strikes me as someone a five year old would say after being told to sit in a corner by their mother. Doesn't come off as very sincere, but rather condescending. If he really was sorry, then why in the HELL did he bring it up to begin with?

At this point I think there is literally nothing Mike or PA could do to make some people forgive him. They will forever be terrible people who support the rape culture.

PA's only winning move is shutting up and never talking about it again. Just deal with the fact that any time PAX is coming there will be the Internet call to boycott it, and web posts like the one linked above calling those who attend terrible people. Just stop engaging.

If I were Robert, I'd be telling Mike to set his Twitter to private, too.

 

[cheststrongwell]

I don't think any subject should be off limits when making a joke.

 

[conman]

If they had just let the original controversy roll off their backs, then this wouldn't look like such an aggressive and off-color thing to do. But context is everything, especially when it comes to humor. And doing this now makes them look like giant d-wads.

 

[Retro_]

Well, I might want to alienate part of my audience. That's something I as an artist get to decide. Lenny Bruce knew he'd alienate certain people when he stood on stage saying "nigger" over and over again. Andres Serrano knew he'd piss off an enormous number of people when he painted "Piss Christ." Robert Maplethorpe knew some folks were going to have a problem with his beautiful pictures of a bullwhip inserted in a guy's ass.

If your goal is to offend as many people as possible for the sake of art, hey more power to you.

I don't think that was the goal of Penny Arcade though. The goal of Penny Arcade is to make people laugh and make money.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with creating works that upset people. It's one of the functions of art, even comic art. If Mike (or Jerry) had a problem alienating people who were upset about Dickwolves, they wouldn't have reacted as they did.

You mean when they discontinued the antagonistic T-shirts and apologized once things got to the point that the situation might actually interfere with the primary goals of Penny Arcade?(Making money)

In short, they didn't much care that people got offended, because they disagreed with the opinions of those people over the offensiveness of the strip.

I don't think disagree is the right word. because disagree implies having an understanding of the other side of the argument to begin with. and based on the comments of some of the guys from Penny Arcade I don't think they've demonstrated that much.

They just seem to be dismissive to criticism. or really really really unintelligent...

Mike's general reaction to people not liking some aspect of the strip is "Fine, don't fucking read it, then" not "Gee, I'm sorry." This has been true since the inception of PA.

How admirable. It must be nice to be so massive that you can be dismissive to individual opinions.

Until they form a group so large that it poses a threat to the business side of your "art". Then it's time for half-hearted, insincere apologies.

 

[radios shipping overview]

He should act however he wants to act. Especially when the way he is acting gets him mountains of money, power, and cheering.

The way he's acted doesn't mix well with the inclusiveness that PAX seems to be trying to embrace. It's off-message and it undercuts the goals of his own convention.

If keeping Mike mum is the only way the other owners can keep him from tearing up the carpet, then I guess that's how it has to work.

 

[badgenome]

Yeah that's how people usually justify discarding negative criticism. The people praising and confirming my world view and art are my "actual fans". Everyone else is just a hater.

Who said that? But if (and I stress "if", because I don't know how it actually went over with them) most Penny Arcade fans didn't have a problem with the joke while the aggrieved party was largely comprised of people who didn't read PA in the first place, then it's pretty logical to care more about what your actual audience thinks.

 

[Bizazedo]

The movie PCU came over 10 years too early.

Still an amazing movie, though.

 

[Retro_]

Who said that? But if (and I stress "if", because I don't know how it actually went over with them) most Penny Arcade fans didn't have a problem with the joke while the aggrieved party was largely comprised of people who didn't read PA in the first place, then it's pretty logical to care more about what your actual audience thinks.

That's still ignoring the "some" of your fanbase offended by the comic

Listening to them doesn't necessarily mean changing things and apologizing. Just hearing their point of view leaves you at least aware of a situation you weren't before you made the work, even if you still disagree and leave things as is.

The people(or person) at Penny Arcade refused to do even that much. Instead they defended a perspective not even shown in the original comic and generalized whole groups of people and attacked them in defense of it.

I don't understand how so many people can be sympathetic with that, and why that's not the focus of this discussion.

 

[Conciliator]

Mike should probably have to file a request form with Penny Arcade Inc. before being allowed to use a keyboard.

 

[aeolist]

i think the saddest part is that mike has been pretty open about how he was bullied as a child, and then when he gained massive amounts of money and influence as an adult he decided that compassion was for suckers and proceeded to become a bully himself

 

[Omegasquash]

How admirable. It must be nice to be so massive that you can be dismissive to individual opinions.

Until they form a group so large that it poses a threat to the business side of your "art". Then it's time for half-hearted, insincere apologies.

That's pretty much business as usual. If they don't have to give a shit, they won't. When they do, it will. They're here to make money, plain and simple and I can't fault them for that, but when they cross a line and start defending action, then it's game over (no pun intended). They haven't, he just made a comment that he thinks pulling the material was a mistake. I don't agree...I think pulling it was the right thing to do. Doing that is enough.

One person saying that they think it was a mistake doesn't smear the image of "PA" to me, it just means that he said something without thinking about it.

i think the saddest part is that mike has been pretty open about how he was bullied as a child, and then when he gained massive amounts of money and influence as an adult he decided that compassion was for suckers and proceeded to become a bully himself

Par for the course, in many cases.

 

[Footos22]

Rape is never funny.... Unless you are raping a clown.

 

[besada]

I don't think that was the goal of Penny Arcade though. The goal of Penny Arcade is to make people laugh and make money.

The goal of Penny Arcade is to make strips that Mike and Jerry find funny, which has the add on bonus of attracting readers who have a similar sense of humor, which makes them money.

You mean when they discontinued the antagonistic T-shirts and apologized once things got to the point that the situation might actually interfere with the primary goals of Penny Arcade?(Making money)

That's not actually what happened. Mike was fine leaving the shirts up, until it began to cross over into people feeling uncomfortable at PAX, which is designed to be an inclusive gathering. Consequently, Mike was convinced that Dickwolf shirts were making people uncomfortable to be at PAX, so they were removed.

And yes, they are dismissive of criticism that's based on a misunderstanding of the piece. And dismissive of criticism that attempts to tell them what they may or may not put in their comic. Many artists are dismissive of that sort of criticism.

 

[faceless007]

This is pretty much my go to poster child example case for the internet outrage machine at its absolute finest/worst. Dawkins vs "Woman in a Lift" comes a close 2nd with its villainising of all men as rapists,

Yeah, that didn't happen either.

 

[dollartaco]

That's still ignoring the "some" of your fanbase offended by the comic

Listening to them doesn't necessarily mean changing things and apologizing. Just hearing their point of view leaves you at least aware of a situation you weren't before you made the work, even if you still disagree and leave things as is.

The people(or person) at Penny Arcade refused to do even that much. Instead they defended a perspective not even shown in the original comic and generalized whole groups of people and attacked them in defense of it.

I don't understand how so many people can be sympathetic with that, and why that's not the focus of this discussion.

Truly, victims to the end.