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[moriquendi32]

They made the mistake of assuming enough people were capable of understanding authorial intent and the idea of criticizing something by including it in a discussion. Look even in this thread. The joke is not "rape is funny." If you think it is, you're simply wrong. The joke is "MMO game makers are using travesties in their writing in a really strange way considering the actual play mechanics." Highlighting the idea of rescuing five people from some recurring horror, but stopping at the sixth because you've "gotten enough for your quest" is precisely the point.

The reason Krahulik seems so flippant about how he responds to people critical of the "jokes about how funny rape is" is because he knows that's not what it is, and knows the attitudes the comic actually presents. Even this writeup goes to some lengths to obscure the actual intention of the comic, intention that should be clear given even a simple explanation of the MMO mechanics being highlighted. "Team Dickwolves" wasn't about how great rape is, it was about people who got the point of the comic in the first place.

This doesn't preclude people from being bothered by the tone of the comic. That's absolutely fine. But if you take the tone of the entire pool of content produced by Holkins and Krahulik, understand the purpose of the writing being criticized, and still come away saying they should shut down PAX and PA and everything associated with them (as some have in this very thread), then I can't help but categorize it like someone going to a comedian's show about how messed up racism is and complaining that the comedian is racist.

I think most people get the point he was trying to convey. My difficulty is that it's a fairly obvious and trivial subject that uses beatings and rape to make it's point. The exact same point point could have been made quite easily without any reference to rape.

Even more difficult to comprehend is his reaction when some people tell him such jokes are hurtful. He always seems to want to double down.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

Doesn't perpetually being offended ever become an exhausting exercise in personal endurance? It's the internet. There is literally an ocean of potentially offensive material to test the delicate sensibilities of the continually outraged. How does one separate the truly repugnant wheat from the merely distasteful chaff?

 

[Lime]

At this point I think there is literally nothing Mike or PA could do to make some people forgive him. They will forever be terrible people who support the rape culture.

PA's only winning move is shutting up and never talking about it again. Just deal with the fact that any time PAX is coming there will be the Internet call to boycott it, and web posts like the one linked above calling those who attend terrible people. Just stop engaging.

If I were Robert, I'd be telling Mike to set his Twitter to private, too.

That wasn't what the web post was doing. Try reading it again without feeling you're being personally targeted by your attendance to the convention.

And your suggestion is like a denial of an issue through ignorance and silencing. Why simply not make a sincere public apology in which they admit their mistakes and in the meantime try to do something against the reproduction and maintenance of rape culture? That would go a long way to making amends instead of sticking their heads into the sand and hope the issue goes away.

 

[Interficium]

I think the criticism of PA is right and just.

That being said, completely unhinged "reactions" like Elizabeth Sampat's which have the premise that basically everyone who has ever attended PAX is a defender of rapists is completely counterproductive. People such as Sampat need to realize this kind of response is veering sharply into Godwin's Law-esque territory.

 

[pizza dog]

i think the saddest part is that mike has been pretty open about how he was bullied as a child, and then when he gained massive amounts of money and influence as an adult he decided that compassion was for suckers and proceeded to become a bully himself

this

Ridiculing someone as "wrong" for how they feel or respond to something is straight bullying.

Compassion is the right word here. Mike especially has a pattern now of saying something problematic, then hunkering down as soon as people push back instead of taking a hot minute to try and understand where the criticism is coming from. I get the feeling he's even a generally liberal, sensitive guy, so it sucks when he lashes out and dismisses other experiences as invalid.

Everyone says things that are wrong sometimes, it'd be nice if he'd own up to it more often. "I wasn't being an asshole, you're just too sensitive" is basically never true.

 

[Messofanego]

On the issue of indie developers not going to PAX and losing promotion. Fullbright Company didn't go to PAX and yet their indie game, Gone Home, did well commercially and critically. They're a new company with only one game and only one person on their team is well-known.

Just an example to show it is possible to avoid PAX if you're averse to the creators' opinions and behaviour.

 

[luxarific]

"Robert Khoo, the company's President of Business Development, who was acting as chair for the discussion and had been behind the decision to stop selling in the first place, agreed, saying that doing so was "a way of engaging", which they now try not to do "in these type of things"."

Did you really expect him to disagree with Mike in public?

 

[FyreWulff]

Did you really expect him to disagree with Mike in public?

No, lawyers don't have ethics.

 

[badgenome]

That's still ignoring the "some" of your fanbase offended by the comic

Listening to them doesn't necessarily mean changing things and apologizing. Just hearing their point of view leaves you at least aware of a situation you weren't before you made the work, even if you still disagree and leave things as is.

The people(or person) at Penny Arcade refused to do even that much. Instead they defended a perspective not even shown in the original comic and generalized whole groups of people and attacked them in defense of the comic.

I am really not interested in defending Mike's behavior. I know a guy who used to play WoW with him, and everything I've heard made him sound like a huge dick. But unless you create the blandest dreck imaginable I think you'll always run the risk of offending some of your audience. This seems especially unavoidable when your audience is as sizable as PA's.

Whether you shrug off those people's criticisms out of hand or respectfully listen to them first before continuing to tell the same sort of "offensive" jokes, those people will continue to be offended and will probably still feel as if you've ignored their point of view. If you refuse to change, chances are they'll just perceive your respectful listening as being patronizing.

So, to what extent does a creator have a responsibility to change according to the desires of his audience? I'd say no more so than the audience has a responsibility to like what is being presented to them. Which is to say, none. A creator having an audience is just kind of a serendipitous situation, and at a certain point the two may just grow apart.

 

[dead souls]

And I thought I couldn't dislike Penny Arcade anymore. Thanks for proving me wrong guys.

 

[kuYuri]

+1. What was the deal with Jessica Nigiri? Totally missed that.

What exactly did they do to Nigri?

This is from last year.

http://kotaku.com/5900134/skimpy-outfit-gets-lollipop-chainsaw-cosplayer-asked-to-leave-pax

 

[Kadayi]

Doesn't perpetually being offended ever become an exhausting exercise in personal endurance? It's the internet. There is literally an ocean of potentially offensive material to test the delicate sensibilities of the continually outraged. How does one separate the truly repugnant wheat from the merely distasteful chaff?

First law of the internet: -. No matter what's said, there's always someone out there whose going to be offended.

 

[luxarific]

No, lawyers don't have ethics.

Khoo is an MBA not a JD.

(Although JDs probably have more ethics than MBAs from an objective standpoint.)

Khoo's probably the biggest factor behind PA's success. I have a lot of respect for him.

 

[Retro_]

The goal of Penny Arcade is to make strips that Mike and Jerry find funny, which has the add on bonus of attracting readers who have a similar sense of humor, which makes them money.

If you say so.

I don't know or care enough to argue about the guys motives.

That's not actually what happened. Mike was fine leaving the shirts up, until it began to cross over into people feeling uncomfortable at PAX, which is designed to be an inclusive gathering. Consequently, Mike was convinced that Dickwolf shirts were making people uncomfortable to be at PAX, so they were removed.

Now see what this suggests to me is that he was fine with his shirts and his position until it threatened the attendance at his event. Then he was all apologetic and took the shirts down.

but obviously, that was all insincere. As he just admitted that he thought he should have never taken the shirts down.....at the very same event that they made people uncomfortable to be at in the first place.

So yeah I don't buy that shit for a minute. lol

And yes, they are dismissive of criticism that's based on a misunderstanding of the piece. And dismissive of criticism that attempts to tell them what they may or may not put in their comic. Many artists are dismissive of that sort of criticism.

They also label seemingly all criticism as one of the two even when it's not. It makes it alot easier to dismiss!!!

 

[Bizazedo]

On the issue of indie developers not going to PAX and losing promotion. Fullbright Company didn't go to PAX and yet their indie game, Gone Home, did well commercially and critically. They're a new company with only one game and only one person on their team is well-known.

Just an example to show it is possible to avoid PAX if you're averse to the creators' opinions and behaviour.

Hardly conclusive since that very announcement utilized PAX to get some notoriety.

this

Ridiculing someone as "wrong" for how they feel or respond to something is straight bullying.

Compassion is the right word here. Mike especially has a pattern now of saying something problematic, then hunkering down as soon as people push back instead of taking a hot minute to try and understand where the criticism is coming from. I get the feeling he's even a generally liberal, sensitive guy, so it sucks when he lashes out and dismisses other experiences as invalid.

Everyone says things that are wrong sometimes, it'd be nice if he'd own up to it more often. "I wasn't being an asshole, you're just too sensitive" is basically never true.

I disagree with your premise.

Mike was being an asshole and his behavior is clearly vindictive to those who he feels wrongly attacked him for the comic. And honestly, that's why I'm okay with it. He's not required to be nice if he accepts the consequences and it appears he feels okay with doing that.

Your premise says that people's opinions cannot be wrong and at the same time you say Mike is wrong. If the argument were consistent, you'd be telling both sides to drop it and let Mike believe what he wants.

 

[pizza dog]

Doesn't perpetually being offended ever become an exhausting exercise in personal endurance? It's the internet. There is literally an ocean of potentially offensive material to test the delicate sensibilities of the continually outraged. How does one separate the truly repugnant wheat from the merely distasteful chaff?

That "the Internet is a gross place full of horrible things" doesn't really have any bearing on anything. Penny Arcade especially is a place that in part and to some stands for "here is a safe place built by people with a history of being marginalized". To go there and be yourself marginalized, to have your opinions dismissed and experiences invalidated? By people you like and trust? People you've followed and laughed along with for years? Yeah, that'd fucking suck. For some people, I'm sure it was like getting bit by the family dog.

Plus it sucks up there to imply "the people upset about this are only people who get off on being upset".

 

[Version 3.0]

Oh we wouldn't want to be impolite and insufficiently deferential to the people crying rape apologist. We must treat their dickwolf-rape related concerns with all due sincerity.

I don't understand how this is a reply to what I posted. I literally said nothing at all about any of those things.

 

[Quadraphonic]

I think most people get the point he was trying to convey. My difficulty is that it's a fairly obvious and trivial subject that uses beatings and rape to make it's point. The exact same point point could have been made quite easily without any reference to rape.

Even more difficult to comprehend is his reaction when some people tell him such jokes are hurtful. He always seems to want to double down.

Exactly. People here still thing it's about the rape joke in the comic.

The moment that Gabe started criticizing people that commented on the joke was the moment it was no longer about the comic. It was about his defense of something terrible.

 

[besada]

If you say so.

I don't know or care enough to argue about the guys motives.

So you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Fair enough. I'll waste my time on someone who does.

 

[Lime]

I think the criticism of PA is right and just.

That being said, completely unhinged "reactions" like Elizabeth Sampat's which have the premise that basically everyone who has ever attended PAX is a defender of rapists is completely counterproductive. People such as Sampat need to realize this kind of response is veering sharply into Godwin's Law-esque territory.

Uhm, that "everyone who has ever attendes PAX is a defender of rapists" accusation isn't part of the Sampat post. At all. Read it again.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

If you wanted to make a parody of feminism descending into vapid, holier-than-thou, victimhood seeking posturing I don't think you could even come up with something as outlandish as taking offense at the existence of completely fictional joke creatures with dicks for arms, but here we are.

I truly thought you were going to finish this sentence with a remark about how vapid, holier-than-thou, victimhood seeking, posturing Krahulik is being by bringing this up again.

 

[Ikael]

The original joke wasn't about rape, at all.

PA's reaction was just sensitivity training, Evilore-style. Their fans, however, had a collective nerd rage fit comparable to an Ork WAAAG. It sucks, but we live in an online world where "UR GONNA GET RAPED" is standard PvP talk.

Everyone says things that are wrong sometimes, it'd be nice if he'd own up to it more often. "I wasn't being an asshole, you're just too sensitive" is basically never true.

I beg to disagree, kind sir. The ease to be offended is rarely a sign of wisdom, maturity or mental health in general. In fact, you cannot disociate depression with oversensitivity, and believe me, there are boatloads of depressed people nowadays, yet political correction and the Internet echo chambers gives wings to that type of thinking about how we live in a horribly offensive, abrasive and agressive world rather than being oversenstive wounded people ourselves. See also "heightism", "lookism", and all these wonderful mental constructs for justyfing your feelings of alienation from society and nihilistic outlooks of life.

 

[Lime]

First law of the internet: -. No matter what's said, there's always someone out there whose going to be offended.

Yeah, you know, discriminating people through language and communication is quite real. You don't see how using words and expressions that are regularly employed to marginalize and demean other people might actually hurt and offend the affected people?

You don't see how using the n-word, calling homosexuals fags, or threatening or making light of a severely traumatic experience might negatively affect someone? Or are you that incapable of putting yourself in other human beings' position?

 

[blitzcloud]

replacing rape and dickwolves by almost anything else that makes you picture something ridiculous would work too with the comic intent, so it clearly wasn't a rape joke.

On the issue of indie developers not going to PAX and losing promotion. Fullbright Company didn't go to PAX and yet their indie game, Gone Home, did well commercially and critically. They're a new company with only one game and only one person on their team is well-known.

Just an example to show it is possible to avoid PAX if you're averse to the creators' opinions and behaviour.

Weren't those the guys that opened a blog post to say why they wouldn't go, making themselves publicly defenders of what's right and fair and gaining the spotlight for it?

---

This is a rape joke, depicting even the suffering of the one going to be raped:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFIDVMYx34o

And another subtler one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDRx_F4XtFA


A worldwide show for a wide audience could only generate 500 clicks on a petition to stop sordid jokes about rape

http://www.change.org/petitions/set...-using-sexual-abuse-based-humor-on-your-shows

 

[ultron87]

Uhm, that "everyone who has ever attendes PAX is a defender of rapists" accusation isn't part of the Sampat post. At all. Read it again.

It was more precisely: giving money to defenders of rape.

The pass you purchased helps a rape apologist sleep a little better at night.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I feel like the only mistake is Krahulik (if I remember right) doubling down and being an asshole about it.

If they stood by their joke and acknowledged that some people would be deeply troubled by it, but then defended the right to artistic expression at the cost of a number of their fans, both sides might come away with a sense of understanding the other's viewpoint.

Assuming they handle it tactfully, I'm actually glad they are bringing this issue up again. Hopefully being a little older and with Krahulik wearing a self-imposed muzzle, there is a completely productive debate to be had here.

I can certainly understand the frustration of very vocal idiots insisting on trying to censor other people leading to a gigantic "fuck you, I can do what I want" scenario.

Because seriously, he can do what he wants and people are free to ignore him.

 

[aeolist]

The original joke wasn't about rape, at all.

PA's reaction was just sensitivity training, Evilore-style. Their fans, however, had a collective nerd rage fit comparable to an Ork WAAAG. It sucks, but we live in an online world where "UR GONNA GET RAPED" is standard PvP talk.



I beg to disagree, kind sir. The ease to be offended is rarely a sign of wisdom, maturity or mental health in general. In fact, you cannot disociate depression with oversensitivity, and believe me, there are boatloads of depressed people nowadays, yet political correction and the Internet echo chambers gives wings to that type of thinking about how we live in a horribly offensive, abrasive and agressive world rather than being oversenstive wounded people ourselves. See also "heightism", "lookism", and all these wonderful mental constructs for justyfing your feelings of alienation from society and nihilistic outlooks of life.

i feel like equating rape survivors to tumblr social justice nutsos who think they're being persecuted because they're married to a cartoon or some shit is kind of disgusting

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

I just read the comic for the first time and this is really what all the controversy was about? From what I've read I always thought that the rape itself was the joke and because I never really cared for Penny Arcade, I never really questioned it. But honestly, that was pretty tame for a joke, and although this probably paints me as immature or childish, but I actually laughed at the joke.

Now, I'd never buy any merchandise as wearing a shirt that says Dickwolves sounds as appealing as going to school in my birthday suit, but I honestly expected worse.

 

[Lime]

It was more precisely: giving money to defenders of rape.

Which, although PA might not be aware of and fail to even admit to recognize the causality of their contribution to rape culture with how they went about it, could reasonably argued to be the case. I.e. that PA's campaign and mechandise implicitly defends rape culture, intentionally or non-intentionally.

 

[thewhitehawk]

There's no way to discuss this matter without it upsetting someone. This topic touches upon something that is immensely traumatic to those who might have experienced it, immensely distasteful and disgusting by those who are morally sensitive and immensely underestimated by those who have never been affected by it.

The crux of this issue seems to be that people are contesting whether or not rape jokes are acceptable, or more precisely, if they are appropriate in a comedic and gaming-centric web comic, or if they should even be allowed to publish such jokes.

Are they appropriate? Well, rape jokes tend to be childish ones, just like dick or cancer jokes.

Is it wrong that rape could be used as a vehicle for a joke? No, it really isn't, I'm sorry. Sure, it's not the most tasteful mechanism someone can pick to get a laugh but not making jokes about rape doesn't make rape go away, nor does it lower or increase the severity of that action.

I can sympathise that people who are passionate about the matter do not like the fact that a such a heinous and dehumanising act such as rape could be used to pull such a joke.

I can understand why people who have suffered because of it feel that making jokes about it may feel that turning the matter into a cheap joke may diminish the weight of the action or dilute how strongly society thinks about it but...

Not talking about rape won't make it disappear.

People of all ages need to be aware of what rape is, not sheltered from it, not hidden from their eyes. Now I'm not saying that rape jokes are the best way to educate people about rape, but if it at all incite some small curiosity or keeps the word relevant and present, it may in fact end up doing far more good than harm.

Keeping rape a taboo topic is what kept the victims from being able to receive proper help and taking legal action for decades. If the alternative to having people being molested and abused sexually in secret is to see a cheap rape joke on a webcomic, then I'd much rather see the comic.

If you understand how severe, twisted and de-humanising an action rape can be upon a victim, why are you trying to de-humanise the Penny Arcade founders? They aren't the ones committing that atrocious act, they just make comics, and when they're not doing that they're helping put toys in the hands of children who have been emotionally and physically scarred.

I don't know about everyone else but I can't even hold a candle to the amount of good that the Penny Arcade founders have done for a great number of people. Even if you find it distasteful, in the face of all of their work, I think we can let a joke about fictional beasts go by.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Yeah, you know, discriminating people through language and communication is quite real. You don't see how using words and expressions that are regularly employed to marginalize and demean other people might actually hurt and offend the affected people?

You don't see how using the n-word, calling homosexuals fags, or threatening or making light of a severely traumatic experience might negatively affect someone? Or are you that incapable of putting yourself in other human beings' position?

Its at that point what you're proposing is to end all comedy, shut down the internet, and have people live in soundless, wordless bubbles really.

I'm not entirely sure on the ACTUAL number of rape survivors that read the dickwolves comic and had truly terrible emotional reactions, but then thats impossible to prove anyway unless I was omnipotent or had Big Brother/1984 access to the entire worlds rooms with PA reading devices. Therein sort of lies the problem. These hypothetical people that were so greatly affected by a comic already known for violence and swearing and generally non-PC subject matter are like some kind of philosophers stone or golden fleece. Who cares if they do genuinely exist, of we go to war in their name! Then somehow that whiteknighting army like angry waves of an ocean made of screaming outraged bodies began crashing down on the PA beachheads and surprise surprise things got heated!

I do still love Gabe's reply to "how does it feel to support rape culture?" and that seemingly thousands of people couldnt turn their sarcasm detectors on.

 

[pizza dog]

Mike was being an asshole and his behavior is clearly vindictive to those who he feels wrongly attacked him for the comic. And honestly, that's why I'm okay with it. He's not required to be nice if he accepts the consequences and it appears he feels okay with doing that.

Your premise says that people's opinions cannot be wrong and at the same time you say Mike is wrong. If the argument were consistent, you'd be telling both sides to drop it and let Mike believe what he wants.

Naw I must've missed some subtlety here. Of course I understand that Mike probably felt upset when people pushed back on him, because nobody wants to be called sexist or be accused of perpetuating rape culture or whatever else came at him. That probably sucked a lot for him; he goes home to his wife who he loves and respects and treats well after a day of that and shit that probably blew.

My point is the mature compassionate thing to do would be try and understand why he hurt people instead of lashing out and calling their hurt ridiculous. He made himself feel better by writing all those other people off instead of examining that he might be wrong.

In his shoes, I'd hope my response would be to first quietly explain why it sucked to be attacked as harshly as he was, apologize for hurting people, confess to total ignorance about what people mean when they say "rape culture", and then go and figure things out.

 

[jschreier]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

 

[Grimm Fandango]

They handled it poorly in the past but good for them for standing up to the censorship part.

 

[FStop7]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

The Internet is ground zero of "I gots mine" syndrome

 

[Conciliator]

Naw I must've missed some subtlety here. Of course I understand that Mike probably felt upset when people pushed back on him, because nobody wants to be called sexist or be accused of perpetuating rape culture or whatever else came at him. That probably sucked a lot for him; he goes home to his wife who he loves and respects and treats well after a day of that and shit that probably blew.

My point is the mature compassionate thing to do would be try and understand why he hurt people instead of lashing out and calling their hurt ridiculous. He made himself feel better by writing all those other people off instead of examining that he might be wrong.

In his shoes, I'd hope my response would be to first quietly explain why it sucked to be attacked as harshly as he was, apologize for hurting people, confess to total ignorance about what people mean when they say "rape culture", and then go and figure things out.

Even if he just did nothing he would have come out ahead.

 

[ZeroGravity]

Mike's entirely right in this situation. This was perhaps the dumbest controversy I can think of in recent times.

The worst part about it are the people who argue "it's not funny". Humor is subjective. No one gives a shit what you find funny or not. Your own personal sense of humor does not give you the license to go on a crusade against what other people find funny.

 

[AwShucks]

I don't understand the uproar. Never did.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

I don't get how people get the wrong end of the stick here time and time again. The dickwolves stuff and merch wasn't directly having a go at rape survivors with taglines like "ha ha you idiot, you got raped", it seems squarely aimed at the absolutely absurd internet outrage machine who finds the existence of a wolf whose every limb is an erect phallus something that must be holy war'd against. Thats the biting back and those people quite rightfully need to be lampooned so society doesnt just become an endless torrent of "i'm offended so censor".

But then we know your policy on whiteknighting after the whole Dragon's Crown debacle which was another fine example of "censor all the things!"

 

[pizza dog]

I don't understand the uproar. Never did.

I at least wish you and more would try to.

 

[Schnozberry]

I just read the comic for the first time and this is really what all the controversy was about? From what I've read I always thought that the rape itself was the joke and because I never really cared for Penny Arcade, I never really questioned it. But honestly, that was pretty tame for a joke, and although this probably paints me as immature or childish, but I actually laughed at the joke.

Now, I'd never buy any merchandise as wearing a shirt that says Dickwolves sounds as appealing as going to school in my birthday suit, but I honestly expected worse.

The original joke wasn't that bad. In fact, it was the people that initially spazzed out about it that kind of projected the whole "rape culture" narrative onto the comic. PA's initial reaction was dismissive and flippant and it just got worse from there. The internet enables these kinds of puerile crusades because it allows people to argue with straw men in their own individual echo chambers without much need for actual human interaction. I bet if you sat the people most offended by this whole thing down in a room with Mike and Jerry and had them actually hash it out, everyone could walk away with an understanding. They will probably still have some disagreements when it's over, but the digital walls between people really make these situations completely devoid of humanity and all arguments for or against become untenable in the process.

 

[blitzcloud]

Which, although PA might not be aware of and fail to even admit to recognize the causality of their contribution to rape culture with how they went about it, could reasonably argued to be the case. I.e. that PA's campaign and mechandise implicitly defends rape culture, intentionally or non-intentionally.

something something something far-fetched conclusion.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I just read the comic for the first time and this is really what all the controversy was about? From what I've read I always thought that the rape itself was the joke and because I never really cared for Penny Arcade, I never really questioned it. But, honestly that was pretty tame for a joke, and although this probably paints me as childish, I actually laughed at the joke.

Now, I'd never buy any merchandise as honestly wearing a shirt that says Dickwolves sounds as appealing as going to school in my birthday suit, but I honestly expected worse.

Welcome to internet overreactions 101. You ever see it mentioned that they use murder as a joke at least once a month?

People just use it as a vehicle for self-righteousness and smugness. It's the equivalent to changing your twitter icon to show support. You aren't actually doing anything, but you're being very goddamn loud about it.

 

[Draxal]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

Part of the problem is the overtly aggressive manner that both guys sides handled this, and it as resulted in a polarization.

 

[DCDW]

Seriously?

Censorship doesn't just pop up overnight. And people don't need to fight against censorship in order to protect the popular ideas.

When people say certain types of jokes are inappropriate and need to not be told anymore, that is a threat of censorship.

Soo much this. This is a faaaaar cry to even Daniel Tosh's "wouldn't it be funny if 5 guys raped her right now" joke that he used on a heckler. The PA comic was barely alluding to anything rape and more so was about the scenario of gameplay vs story.

Personally people's reaction against this is ignorant towards real issues wherein rape is involved. How about in one of the Muslim countries where a woman was raped, then thrown in jail for being a "temptress" and to make matters worse, they wouldn't release her unless she agreed to marry her rapist. Ok that's real, and people are getting up in arms about a dickwolf? GET FUCKING REAL.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

They aren't being mocked? What's being mocked are games that treat NPCs as less than human objects that must be collected to complete a quest.

If anything the "rape" part of the joke just makes me empathize with the NPC more and highlights the absurdity of that methodology of questmaking.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Soo much this. This is a faaaaar cry to even Daniel Tosh's "wouldn't it be funny if 5 guys raped her right now" joke that he used on a heckler. The PA comic was barely alluding to anything rape and more so was about the scenario of gameplay vs story.

Personally people's reaction against this is ignorant towards real issues wherein rape is involved. How about in one of the Muslim countries where a woman was raped, then thrown in jail for being a "temptress" and to make matters worse, they wouldn't release her unless she agreed to marry her rapist. Ok that's real, and people are getting up in arms about a dickwolf? GET FUCKING REAL.

Woah woah woah let's not get crazy around here and start being reasonable. I like my armchair activism the way it is: ineffective and pointless.

It's really the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[brandnew]

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

This. PAX prides itself in being "inclusive." This effort to delegitimize opposing viewpoints is the least inclusive thing anyone can do. There doesn't seem to be any genuine effort from PA to hear other people out, which is counter to their stated goal.

Inclusiveness is even the reasoning behind Mike allowing the shirts to be taken down. The shirts made people uncomfortable, so he stopped selling them. So by saying it was a mistake to take the shirts down, isn't he saying it was a mistake to make people feel included?

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Woah woah woah let's not get crazy around here and start being reasonable. I like my armchair activism the way it is: ineffective and pointless.

It's really the gift that keeps on giving.

#KONY2012

 

[jschreier]

They aren't being mocked? What's being mocked are games that treat NPCs as less than human objects that must be collected to complete a quest.

Right, yeah. And when people criticized that comic, PA responded with this comic, which mocked those critics: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/

Then they started selling dickwolves merch as a response.

Here's a good timeline of events: http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline