Support NeoGAF

[Metalmurphy]

Exactly.

Not.

The mod scene won't care if the game bombed or not, they'll all have the game, they'll still continue to love making mods/maps.

 

[Anth]

Rein's answer isn't terrible PR spin. I would have liked to see "We are sorry that we couldn't get the feature ready for launch, so we did xyz to compensate, and expect to release the feature in zyx timeframe ...", but we have seen way, way worse. So Tycho seems a bit too harsh.

That doesn't mean Tycho is wrong though. My impression of UT3's marketing hype was that maps would work like they do on the PC. You join a game with a map you don't have, download it automatically, and are ready to play. That's how things should work. Especially for console gamers, who are, on average, way less technically competent than PC gamers. Consoles are advertised as plug and play, that's one of their main strengths.

Instead, you currently have to go to the Epic forum, get one of the (relatively few) maps the developers have converted, put it on a storage device, put in your PS3, and then hope others have the same map.

Combined with the low sales among the PC user base (the people who would actually create stuff), the feature seems almost worthless. Certainly not worth all the hype around it. If this is the future of user-created content on consoles, I will stick to my PC, thank you very much.

 

[otake]

at least we have the ability to use mods. on xbox live these maps would cost money.


seriously, what's with the "lets hate everything on a sony platform" fever? I have never seen (on gaf) so many threads bitching about something related to sony. is this becoming ign or gamefaqs?

 

[tak]

If they failed here the failure is simply on them. Personally I think they simply over-promised and delivered a very niche solution.

I can agree with this.

 

[Phoenix 2.0]

where was the pwn? all i see is some short ugly fat dude whining about something he doesn't even know everything about.

"bububu use your hacked ipod!!"

or just a typical usb drive, idiot.

if rein replies again, he should just send a picture of tycho. laughter will surely ensue.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

This looks more like acting like a little bitch than "pwning".

Yup.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

 

[besada]

If there was a central repository for UT3 mods, it would have to be moderated. If Epic hosted a Master Chief mod, they'd get slammed. But copyright holders can't regulate the existing USB option.

Why would it have to be moderated by EPIC, though? If they gave the us the ability to compile maps for the PS3 ourselves, I'm sure the community could take care of map hosting and moderation if any is needed.

I can already use my PS3 to view the most vile porn on the planet via the web, so why not make it so we can download whatever mods we want, also via the web, which neither EPIC or Sony are responsible for?

The PS3 already has some decompression utility for the demos, so why not just let us cook and zip our own shit and host it on websites?

 

[Forsete]

lol have u sen how bald he is? rofl and that other stick artist dude looks pigish in appearance!

First personal attack, congrats.

Edit: Oh, not the first.

 

[Stoney Mason]

at least we have the ability to use mods. on xbox live these maps would cost money.


seriously, what's with the "lets hate everything on a sony platform" fever? I have never seen (on gaf) so many threads bitching about something related to sony. is this becoming ign or gamefaqs?

A few years ago it was Nintendo. The world keeps on spinning.

 

[Draft]

Downloading from the server is a good option for dedicated servers, but I don't think it would be fast enough on a peer-to-peer server.

Even though I would like it to function that way, this USB option guarantees that no outside source can censor the content.

If there was a central repository for UT3 mods, it would have to be moderated. If Epic hosted a Master Chief mod, they'd get slammed. But copyright holders can't regulate the existing USB option.

I wish gamers stopped asking for a walled garden when Epic is giving us unprecedented flexibility.

I do not want or expect a central repository. What I am referring to, and what every true PC gamer is familiar with, is the act of downloading small mods and maps from the servers you're trying to play on, as you're attempting to connect. I do not mean grabbing Counterstrike or NS or any other 500mb mod file from the server. I mean grabbing a 2mb map, or a 500kb custom mutator, or even something as retarded as Simpson's quotes that play when you kill people.

This is the de facto standard in modern PC games. Even mods have mods nowadays, but they are so small that grabbing them when joining the server adds maybe a minute to total connection time. It's simple, and it's one of the things that keeps the mod community alive.

Epic seems to have delivered the flexibility, but their delivery method is wanting. Which I believe was Tycho's original point, and it is a valid one.

It´s UT, the community will be there soon or later, independently of the crappy USA PC market. Every UT has a strong community and 2007 is not going to be an exception (I doubt UT 2004 was a huge success on USA market but a correction would be welcome)

I don't know if it bombed, but if its stats are anything to go by, it didn't put up amazing numbers.

 

[shoplifter]

I can deal with not being able to directly download content right off the bat, but the installation method is a major pain in the ass if you have more than one thing to install at once. Perhaps Epic can patch the game/tools to rename the installer files so I don't need four memory sticks/flash drives (or make four trips to my PC) every time a couple new maps come out.

I'd heartily support the 'centralized map server' idea. Seems like a fairly good solution, and sure it would hit Epic's bandwidth at first, but eventually the majority of typically used maps would be located on hard drives. I hadn't thought about the snafu that's going to happen every time someone makes an incremental update to a popular map, that's going to be an absolute mess if they don't implement some sort of autodownload for maps.

 

[MoxManiac]

If there was a central repository for UT3 mods, it would have to be moderated.

Even though I would like it to function that way, this USB option guarantees that no outside source can censor the content.

If Epic hosted a Master Chief mod, they'd get slammed. But copyright holders can't regulate the existing USB option.

Epic should be praised for this, even if it isn't as idiot-proof as it could/should be.

I wish gamers stopped asking for a walled garden when Epic is giving us unprecedented flexibility.

But at what cost?

Having to do this shit to get a custom mod on PS3 basically means mods will not be widespread at all.

Joe blow isn't going to see a server with custom content and think "oh, I better stop what i'm doing and go download and transfer that stuff!", he's going to be "Fuck this, i'll just choose a different one"

I hope you guys like using custom maps with bots, because the chances of people who jumped through the hoops to get the same exact mod as you joining your server seems pretty low.

 

[Jenga]

First personal attack, congrats.

Edit: Oh, not the first.

I didn't bring up his weight, so it shouldn't count!

 

[Tieno]

I think he has a point, but he seems to be barking a little too hard for such a small point. It's not that big of a deal really. But at the same time Mark has always been a blowhard PR so whatever, UT3 has mods so that's pretty nice.

 

[Acosta]

Why even offer mod support when you know that the console maker is going to need certain controls over all the mods that get made? This will happen either because of distribution issues, hacking the console itself via the mod, or just because of content.

You just can't turn people loose on a game console the same way you can on a PC. If you do, the console maker gets angry about something or blocks something and suddenly your entire userbase is up in arms over it on the Internet.

Leaving out the mod support on PS3 would've been the better option here, or simply keeping Unreal Tournament III on the PC and making it the best it could be on there instead of splitting time with PS3 development.

Yeah, Epic sucks for offering a superior game with a very interesting feature instead of the usual half assed conversion...

Wait...

 

[InterMoniker]

you're so cool man.

ya dudes tycho sux epic rulz

lol have u sen how bald he is? rofl and that other stick artist dude looks pigish in appearance!

No wonder you guys like this penny arcade shit. You drama queens :lol

I stand by my first post he's being a whiny little bitch.

 

[Dave Long]

Yeah, Epic sucks for offering a superior game with a very interesting feature instead of the usual half assed conversion...

Wait...

Like so many have already intimated above me, the feature is pretty much useless as implemented.

Meanwhile, Epic likely split at least some of the potential PC userbase away onto PlayStation 3, thus making the game less likely to get mods even on the PC.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

I do not want or expect a central repository. What I am referring to, and what every true PC gamer is familiar with, is the act of downloading small mods and maps from the servers you're trying to play on, as you're attempting to connect. I do not mean grabbing Counterstrike or NS or any other 500mb mod file from the server. I mean grabbing a 2mb map, or a 500kb custom mutator, or even something as retarded as Simpson's quotes that play when you kill people.

This is the de facto standard in modern PC games. Even mods have mods nowadays, but they are so small that grabbing them when joining the server adds maybe a minute to total connection time. It's simple, and it's one of the things that keeps the mod community alive.

Epic seems to have delivered the flexibility, but their delivery method is wanting. Which I believe was Tycho's original point, and it is a valid one.

I don't know if it bombed, but if its stats are anything to go by, it didn't put up amazing numbers.

Mutators can be downloaded off the servers, so you're part way there.

Maps are not 2mb though. A small map will run you about 20mb, and they grow from there. This is why it isn't feasible.

 

[Beer Monkey]

at least we have the ability to use mods. on xbox live these maps would cost money.

Nice try at trying to throw console wars into this. Far Cry maps and Halo 3 Forge maps/gametypes don't cost money to download on Live. Rein has said he is working on getting mod support on the 360. If he gets it, I fully expect it to be free. MS even has a policy that stuff that is free on competing platforms has to be free on 360.

 

[theBishop]

I do not want or expect a central repository. What I am referring to, and what every true PC gamer is familiar with, is the act of downloading small mods and maps from the servers you're trying to play on, as you're attempting to connect. I do not mean grabbing Counterstrike or NS or any other 500mb mod file from the server. I mean grabbing a 2mb map, or a 500kb custom mutator, or even something as retarded as Simpson's quotes that play when you kill people.

I agree, and its pretty likely this feature will be patched in. But the game is also a hybrid of dedicated and peer servers. Distributing maps from a peer server isn't going to be fast enough.

I've been following the Mark Rein interviews in the run-up to release, and everything works exactly as he said it would. He has all-but confirmed there will be an in-game browser and Home support in the future, but it wasn't ready at launch.

 

[Danj]

What if I don't have a thumb drive? Should I go and purchase one? I mean, it wasn't enough to purchase a $499 console and $60 game? Now I have to buy a thumb drive too? Most people will think "Fuck this shit!"

I'm pretty sure there are tons of offers like this. Even if you can't find one, these drives are so cheap it's hardly worth bitching about IMO.

 

[Acosta]

But at what cost?

Having to do this shit to get a custom mod on PS3 basically means mods will not be widespread at all.

Joe blow isn't going to see a server with custom content and think "oh, I better stop what i'm doing and go download and transfer that stuff!", he's going to be "Fuck this, i'll just choose a different one"

I hope you guys like using custom maps with bots, because the chances of people who jumped through the hoops to get the same exact mod as you joining your server seems pretty low.

Who cares of Joe blow? Certainly not me. There are thousands of persons that doesn´t know what a HDMI cable or don´t know what the hell is a "editor", and what?

Having the option is always, always, better that don´t have it at all. Can we agree on that before starting to speak as market researchers?

 

[theBishop]

But at what cost?

Having to do this shit to get a custom mod on PS3 basically means mods will not be widespread at all.

Joe blow isn't going to see a server with custom content and think "oh, I better stop what i'm doing and go download and transfer that stuff!", he's going to be "Fuck this, i'll just choose a different one"

I hope you guys like using custom maps with bots, because the chances of people who jumped through the hoops to get the same exact mod as you joining your server seems pretty low.

that hasn't been the experience so far. I was playing on Shrine servers immediately after Epic made it available.

 

[rollingstart]

I do not want or expect a central repository. What I am referring to, and what every true PC gamer is familiar with, is the act of downloading small mods and maps from the servers you're trying to play on, as you're attempting to connect. I do not mean grabbing Counterstrike or NS or any other 500mb mod file from the server. I mean grabbing a 2mb map, or a 500kb custom mutator, or even something as retarded as Simpson's quotes that play when you kill people.

This is the de facto standard in modern PC games. Even mods have mods nowadays, but they are so small that grabbing them when joining the server adds maybe a minute to total connection time. It's simple, and it's one of the things that keeps the mod community alive.

Epic seems to have delivered the flexibility, but their delivery method is wanting. Which I believe was Tycho's original point, and it is a valid one.

but this isnt the PC, this is the PS3 (or console gaming as a whole in a board sense). This is really the first big step in custom content in console games, it just isnt all the way up to the pc level yet.

 

[theBishop]

can we agree on that before starting to speak as market researchers?

:bow:

thank you for this post.

This is the reason i stay out of sales threads.

 

[besada]

that hasn't been the experience so far. I was playing on Shrine servers immediately after Epic made it available.

Ditto that. By the time I heard about the new maps on GAF and downloaded them, they were already all over the place.

 

[kaching]

Nice try at trying to throw console wars into this.

Too late, Tycho beat him to it.

 

[rollingstart]

Who cares of Joe blow? Certainly not me. There are thousands of persons that doens´t know what a HDMI cable or don´t know what the hell is a "editor", and what?

Having the option is always, always, better that doen´t have it at all. Can we agree on that before starting to speak as market researchers?

yeah, I dont get why people cant look at things as benefit to gamers, everything has to be about sales.

that hasn't been the experience so far. I was playing on Shrine servers immediately after Epic made it available.

same here.

Nice try at trying to throw console wars into this. Far Cry maps and Halo 3 Forge maps/gametypes don't cost money to download on Live. Rein has said he is working on getting mod support on the 360. If he gets it, I fully expect it to be free. MS even has a policy that stuff that is free on competing platforms has to be free on 360.

They are not even in the same league as stuff offered in UT3, like not even close at all.

 

[Acosta]

Like so many have already intimated above me, the feature is pretty much useless as implemented.

Meanwhile, Epic likely split at least some of the potential PC userbase away onto PlayStation 3, thus making the game less likely to get mods even on the PC.

The option is there, and If didn´t have a good gaming PC and planned to buy UT 3 for it, I would be glad to have that option without any firewall. As a consumer I don´t need daddy-corporation to give me my content with a silver spoon, I can sacrify certain convenience in order to get such an option. But that is me I suppose.

 

[Skilotonn]

He's got a point, most definitely, but compared to the way Rein is answering his questions, he's being way too over-dramatic with his responses...

 

[Wollan]

It's the best pc to console port ever made. Having a download tool coupled with a web browser would be the ideal way to get content directly to the game but it's hardly a big problem as it is.

They should however have the different mod files named differently as only being able to transfer one file at a time is a pain.

Mutators is downloaded automatically when connecting to a server. Maps and full on mods aren't however.

PS3 Bake option is coming in a UE3 tool patch soon.

This article would never have been made if the console version debuted on the X360.

 

[Visualante]

http://i6.tinypic.com/6sulgty.png[IMG]

I'm pretty sure there are tons of offers like this. Even if you can't find one, these drives are so cheap it's hardly worth bitching about IMO.[/QUOTE]
Even eliminating that barrier, which is a reasonable one considering you have a PS3, a PC, an internet connection and a copy of UTIII.

You still need a PC to get to the maps, which given the oppurtunity- is what I'd be hounding Rein about, not some stupid wait on Sony to put the tools through validation.

 

[MoxManiac]

Who cares of Joe blow? Certainly not me. There are thousands of persons that doens´t know what a HDMI cable or don´t know what the hell is a "editor", and what?

Having the option is always, always, better that doen´t have it at all. Can we agree on that before starting to speak as market researchers?

I care about Joe Blow, as I want to play with people other than myself on custom maps.

that hasn't been the experience so far. I was playing on Shrine servers immediately after Epic made it available.

Fair enough, but that map was released with fanfare/hype from Epic themselves.

What if Joe Modder creates his spongebob bloodbath map for Ps3 and uploads it on his geocities site? With all this obfuscation on PS3 it would be pretty hard to actually get a game going since it couldn't spread to other people easily and it's unlikely most people knew it existed.

 

[tak]

but this isnt the PC, this is the PS3 (or console gaming as a whole in a board sense). This is really the first big step in custom content in console games, it just isnt all the way up to the pc level yet.

That is a valid point. This is really the first stab at custom content in the console world, but this stab is a two or three steps back from what we expect on the PC, I think that is were a lot of this complaining is coming from.

 

[keyrat]

The first console game to support user mods, without prior approval from game companies, and it doesn't go off without a hitch. Sounds like a lot of bitching to me. Sure, it would've been great if it was made for newbs, but it's not and mods were never something newbs understood anyway; on the ps3 or the PC. Tycho is being too harsh.

As for the software to cook them on your own PC, I suspect the problem is that if users have access to make PS3 packages, they can reverse engineer the PS3s packages and get further along to hacking the PS3. That's probably why there's a delay.

 

[Stoney Mason]

This article would never have been made if the console version debuted on the X360.

Yes it would if it functioned in the same manner as how you get the content in the game and how it is dispersed on the 360.

 

[theBishop]

This article would never have been made if the console version debuted on the X360.

They certainly wouldn't be bitching about the mod features, that's for sure.

 

[Anth]

The options is there, and If didn´t have a good gaming PC and planned to buy UT 3 for it, I would be glad to have that option without any firewall. As a consumer I don´t need daddy-corporation to give me my content with a silver spoon, I can sacrify certain convenience in order to get such an option. But that is me I suppose.

The problem is not so much you, as an individual getting the map (though I'm sure it would get annoying after some time). The problem is that unless x amounts of other people get the very same version of the map, you cannot play it against anything other than bots.
That won't affect single-player mods of course, and that won't prevent a few particularily popular maps from spreading, but you can be damn sure that the mod-scene won't be anywhere near comparable to what a PC user gets. And getting what PC users get is what the whole feature is about.

 

[rollingstart]

This article would never have been made if the console version debuted on the X360.

this article would never have been made if they didnt include the custom map/mod support.

the game is already fully featured in both maps and gamemodes, this is a bonus feature that is being seen as a fault of the game.

 

[Draft]

but this isnt the PC, this is the PS3 (or console gaming as a whole in a board sense). This is really the first big step in custom content in console games, it just isnt all the way up to the pc level yet.

True. That does not mean you cut them slack. Being vocal and demanding is how you make large, fat, greedy companies improve.

Except for Penny Arcade, who are clearly doing this at the behest of their Redmond overlords.

 

[TheDuce22]

When you think about it, its no wonder they couldnt work out a deal with Microsoft on supporting mods, if this is the best setup they could come up with on PS3. The xbox brand seems to have a much greater focus on user friendliness.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Yes it would if it functioned in the same manner as how you get the content in the game and how it is dispersed on the 360.

It probably still wouldn't. As well as if mods/maps support wasn't even there at all...

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Epic seems to have delivered the flexibility, but their delivery method is wanting. Which I believe was Tycho's original point, and it is a valid one.

It was valid, until he totally made up the whole "memory card" and "gamers lured by the promise of the $400 forty gig machine (or those who purchased the twenty-gig, as I did) don't even have the slots to use mods built in," thing.

That's not only reaching to put the worst possible spin on it, it's also a complete lie.

In his response to Rein's response, Tycho just shows that he's a complete whiny little bitch when he gets called out to defend himself. He can dish it out, but he certainly can't take it.

When he snipes at Rein in the first paragraph for (oh, shock!) CCing some people, Tycho shows what a tool he is.

Wow, Tycho...an executive CCing an email. Imagine that. What a shocker.

 

[Acosta]

I care about Joe Blow, as I want to play with people other than myself on custom maps.



Fair enough, but that map was released with fanfare/hype from Epic themselves.

What if Joe Modder creates his spongebob bloodbath map for Ps3 and uploads it on his geocities site? With all this obfuscation on PS3 it would be pretty hard to actually get a game going since it couldn't spread to other people easily and it's unlikely most people knew it existed.

1. Testing new cool map.

2. Going to NeoGAF online forum and talk about it, look for a group that want to check it out and meet for some games.

3. Profit (and probably a more enjoyable experience).

Ok, is not designed for dumbs but I fail to see this as some type of huge obstacle, but we certainly are not agree on this point.

 

[Anth]

this article would never have been made if they didnt include the custom map/mod support.

the game is already fully featured in both maps and gamemodes, this is a bonus feature that is being seen as a fault of the game.

I don't know how heavily it was advertised, but it certainly was the most discussed feature among gamers, the feature that distinguishes it from the thousand other FPS out there. That's not a "bonus feature".

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Epic, among hundreds of other developers, releases a half-finished feature of a game to market in order to meet a holiday deadline and pennyarcade chews them up for it. I think Tycho is just being a dick. Seriously, you can only blame the internet for the 'we'll fix it after launch' mentality.

 

[Y2Kev]

The tone of Tycho's rant is overly aggressive and kind of annoying, to be honest. Rein's game shipped a little early, I guess.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Epic, among hundreds of other developers, releases a half-finished feature of a game to market in order to meet a holiday deadline and pennyarcade chews them up for it. I think Tycho is just being a dick. Seriously, you can only blame the internet for the 'we'll fix it after launch' mentality.

I await Tycho's rant about the Assassin's Creed patch.

Oh, wait.

 

[Zombie James]

Epic, among hundreds of other developers, releases a half-finished feature of a game to market in order to meet a holiday deadline and pennyarcade chews them up for it.

I hear Assassin's Creed is awesome.