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[Mzo]

This game is for fans that have been waiting years for a proper translation. Having it on a portable system makes it all the better.

If you're buying this game, you know what you're getting into. They didn't change it to appease modern gaming sensibilities or to capture a new audience. P3 and 4 have already been wildly successful at that, and 5 will continue the trend.

Most retailers will fill preorders and then have either 0 or 1 copies lying around. They'll all be gone in a couple of months. It'll start going up in price around a year later.

You're in or you're out.

 

[Teknoman]

Is Gamestop supposed to have this game in tomorrow or Wed? I don't remember receiving a call from Ashley about picking up my game. Unless the calls were forgoed in favor of the ultra steroided Gears of War 3.

Nah we got the game in the same shipment as Gears and Dragon Quest Monsters J2. Received like 6 copies.

Is Lisa's dad supposed to be a

Spoiler

Steven Seagal

spoof?

 

[KibblesBits]

Nah we got the game in the same shipment as Gears and Dragon Quest Monsters J2. Received like 6 copies.

Is Lisa's dad supposed to be a

Spoiler

Steven Seagal

spoof?

yes

 

[Paracelsus]

This game is for fans that have been waiting years for a proper translation. Having it on a portable system makes it all the better.

If you're buying this game, you know what you're getting into. They didn't change it to appease modern gaming sensibilities or to capture a new audience. P3 and 4 have already been wildly successful at that, and 5 will continue the trend.

Most retailers will fill preorders and then have either 0 or 1 copies lying around. They'll all be gone in a couple of months. It'll start going up in price around a year later.

You're in or you're out.

http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Persona_2_Innocent_Sin_PSP/index.html
vs
http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Shin_Megami_Tensei_Persona_PSP/index.html

Latter was a kick in the balls of a game, it still is. All it took was two years for them to go biased?

The day in which reviews themselves will be available for up and downvoting won't be soon enough.

 

[Mzo]

The Persona review praises the game for being the same game it was when the reviewer first played it.

The Persona 2 review pans the game for not having changed since it's original release.

You be the judge.

 

[Teknoman]

The in game graphics are a hell of alot better than Persona 1. Great remixed soundtrack too. Kinda odd that everyone just seems...ok that they've got Persona's already though. Unless something happens later on that explains that.

 

[Cheska]

Nah we got the game in the same shipment as Gears and Dragon Quest Monsters J2. Received like 6 copies.

Is Lisa's dad supposed to be a

Spoiler

Steven Seagal

spoof?

Awesome, thank you very much I'm excited to pick this up tomorrow then.

Does P2 have one of those stories that pulls you in fairly early?

 

[Volcynika]

The Persona review praises the game for being the same game it was when the reviewer first played it.

The Persona 2 review pans the game for not having changed since it's original release.

You be the judge.

Different reviewers?

 

[Mzo]

Obviously, but people are comparing them as if the website only has one voice.

 

[Volcynika]

Obviously, but people are comparing them as if the website only has one voice.

Sucks then. Those are silly people!

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Ridiculous reviews. Persona 2 is THE SHIT and dare you pass it up because of incompetent critics.

 

[Volcynika]

Ridiculous reviews. Persona 2 is THE SHIT and dare you pass it up because of incompetent critics.

I know you about as much as the reviewers, how can I trust you over them!

 

[Ricker]

Persona 2 UMD get: ;P

 

[Kazerei]

Persona 2 UMD get: ;P

Quick question, what does the side of the UMD case look like? Does it match the side of Persona 1's case? It's probably some mental disorder, but it's kind of important to me that when I line up my game collection, games from the same series sort of match >_>

 

[Lesiroth]

This game is for fans that have been waiting years for a proper translation. Having it on a portable system makes it all the better.

If you're buying this game, you know what you're getting into. They didn't change it to appease modern gaming sensibilities or to capture a new audience. P3 and 4 have already been wildly successful at that, and 5 will continue the trend.

Most retailers will fill preorders and then have either 0 or 1 copies lying around. They'll all be gone in a couple of months. It'll start going up in price around a year later.

You're in or you're out.

Well, does that mean that I shouldn't be interested in this game if I wasn't waiting for a proper translation? I just like good RPGs and I got interested in SMT after P3.

 

[Ricker]

Quick question, what does the side of the UMD case look like? Does it match the side of Persona 1's case? It's probably some mental disorder, but it's kind of important to me that when I line up my game collection, games from the same series sort of match >_>

I don`t have the first so here =)

 

[x3r0123]

yay, i forgot it comes out today so i will pick up my copy later

 

[Kazerei]

I don`t have the first so here =)

Thanks. It's quite different from Persona 1. Oh well :\

 

[Mzo]

Well, does that mean that I shouldn't be interested in this game if I wasn't waiting for a proper translation? I just like good RPGs and I got interested in SMT after P3.

All the criticisms are valid.

You should know what you're getting into. It's not P3 or 4.

 

[tokkun]

Ridiculous reviews. Persona 2 is THE SHIT and dare you pass it up because of incompetent critics.

What aspect of the reviews is incompetent? It seems like even the fans of the game are not trying to say that the reviewers' complaints are untrue.

 

[Lesiroth]

All the criticisms are valid.

You should know what you're getting into. It's not P3 or 4.

I do know it's not similar at all, but I'm just wondering if it's a good RPG on its own then why is it getting heavily criticised in reviews?

 

[creid]

http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Persona_2_Innocent_Sin_PSP/index.html
vs
http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Shin_Megami_Tensei_Persona_PSP/index.html

Latter was a kick in the balls of a game, it still is. All it took was two years for them to go biased?

The day in which reviews themselves will be available for up and downvoting won't be soon enough.

If anything is biased, it's that P1 review. lol at the idea that low score = bias

 

[Sqorgar]

Tastes and expectations change? Standards increase? Exceptional elements that may have caused reviewers to overlook flaws back then may no longer be novel?

I mean, what's your alternate theory? That they're lying? That they hate RPGs?

Most game reviewers don't spend a whole lot of time playing the games they review. This is a not-so-secret fact about game journalism. Jeff Gerstmann has been driving me nuts for years based on his reviews of the first fifteen minutes of games, and reviews of a game's instruction manual. That's why most games get a 7. It's a safe score, and free from the hype of a big release, few people care or will complain. The cult will complain if you give it a 3 though (God Hand).

From my experience, there are two things which will instantly brand a game as crappy for reviewers - long load times and dated graphics (ie two things you can tell from the first fifteen minutes). P2:IS apparently has both of these problems. Dated graphics, especially, convey to the reviewer that it has dated gameplay (despite there being no such thing), and they stick to that narrative in their reviews. I remember reviews saying Disgaea had dated gameplay because it looked "like a PSX game".

Reviewers have an incentive to finish their reviews, not the games. The number of atrocities leveled against niche gaming for this cause is abhorrent.

 

[Mzo]

I do know it's not similar at all, but I'm just wondering if it's a good RPG on its own then why is it getting heavily criticised in reviews?

Dungeons are long and boring mazes. Combat drags after a while, especially with the high frequency of enemy encounters. Lots of grinding is required not just to level but for materials and currency.

The story and characters are amazing and yes, it's a great RPG but it's not a modern RPG.

The first Persona is a good litmus test. If you can handle that, I think this is the better game.

 

[frogg609]

I didn't beat Persona 1 (it felt very hard to get into for me), will I feel lost story wise with P2?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Wow, my copy just arrived from Amazon, sooner than expected. Let's do this thing.

 

[NichM]

I didn't beat Persona 1 (it felt very hard to get into for me), will I feel lost story wise with P2?

Nah. The connections are minor, not that important, and explained in Innocent Sin anyway.

 

[Augemitbutter]

grinding is not necessary in this game. you can finish it by going from one story point to the next without problems.

i finished the game without.

 

[tokkun]

Most game reviewers don't spend a whole lot of time playing the games they review. This is a not-so-secret fact about game journalism. Jeff Gerstmann has been driving me nuts for years based on his reviews of the first fifteen minutes of games, and reviews of a game's instruction manual. That's why most games get a 7. It's a safe score, and free from the hype of a big release, few people care or will complain. The cult will complain if you give it a 3 though (God Hand).

From my experience, there are two things which will instantly brand a game as crappy for reviewers - long load times and dated graphics (ie two things you can tell from the first fifteen minutes). P2:IS apparently has both of these problems. Dated graphics, especially, convey to the reviewer that it has dated gameplay (despite there being no such thing), and they stick to that narrative in their reviews. I remember reviews saying Disgaea had dated gameplay because it looked "like a PSX game".

Reviewers have an incentive to finish their reviews, not the games. The number of atrocities leveled against niche gaming for this cause is abhorrent.

It doesn't seem that people are debating the validity Gerstmann's opinion of this game.

So are you actually accusing John McCarroll of RPGFan and Zach Welhouse of RPGamer of writing those reviews without finishing the game? Or is this post just some non sequitur?

 

[KibblesBits]

It doesn't seem that people are debating the validity Gerstmann's opinion of this game.

So are you actually accusing John McCarroll of RPGFan and Zach Welhouse of RPGamer of writing those reviews without finishing the game? Or is this post just some non sequitur?

No I agree with the previously quoted post. Reviewers show often that they haven't spent much time on the games. This may not be the case at RPGFan, but it is easily discerned when one has played the game for less than 20minutes and shits out a review.

 

[Cheska]

So any impressions from fellow Gaffers who have the game already? I'm just about done getting ready and I'll be heading out the door to pick up my copy shortly.

 

[Blue Submarine No. 6]

start....

gotta update the firmware....

off the UMD? nah... I'll go get the latest over WiFi...

(five minutes later) start...

install data? aw, hell... ya... 256 Megs? ya...

5 minutes?

waiting...

I just want to start my game already!!!

 

[Sqorgar]

So are you actually accusing John McCarroll of RPGFan and Zach Welhouse of RPGamer of writing those reviews without finishing the game? Or is this post just some non sequitur?

I don't think it is an unfair assumption that they didn't finish the game. These are day one reviews. I don't know when Atlus sends out their review copies, but I'd be surprised if they had much more than a week to play this 40+ hour RPG. But I don't know. Maybe they do play a game they think is mediocre for 5 hours a day to write a review they are paid a pittance for, if at all. And I'll go ahead and say that I don't think the guy who reviewed Trinity: Souls of Zill'Oll for RPGamer played the game very long, so it wouldn't exactly be news.

My point is that reviewer opinions, especially on lengthy, niche games are compromised by factors which do not affect someone who is interested in buying the game. For one, I can take my time and put my 40 hours in over the course of a year, with the aid of many FAQs and guides written in the time since the game's release.

The idea that gameplay becomes dated is laughable. It's an excuse reviewers come up with so that they can denigrate a game they've barely played without having to provide any actual details. Gameplay doesn't become dated. Patience might be shorter these days, but if you truly have that little patience, then I don't know why you are even considering a SMT game.

 

[tokkun]

No I agree with the previously quoted post. Reviewers show often that they haven't spent much time on the games. This may not be the case at RPGFan, but it is easily discerned when one has played the game for less than 20minutes and shits out a review.

And is that what you discern about these reviews? If so, please be specific about it. If not, then why are we even talking about the quality of completely unrelated reviews?

It seems like people are trying to say that these reviews are invalid without actually refuting their content by setting up straw man arguments and making non-specific accusations of unethical behavior.

 

[Aeana]

So any impressions from fellow Gaffers who have the game already? I'm just about done getting ready and I'll be heading out the door to pick up my copy shortly.

So far I can say that the load times are perfectly acceptable if loaded from the memory stick, which I am pleased about.

 

[Sqorgar]

It seems like people are trying to say that these reviews are invalid without actually refuting their content by setting up straw man arguments and making non-specific accusations of unethical behavior.

How can we refute them if the game just came out today? I won't receive my copy for another two days.

I haven't played IS, but I do own and have played EP. I wouldn't describe EP as dated gameplay. In fact, it was actually quite progressive and ahead of its time back in the day.

As for unethical behavior, it's only unethical if they say they won the game. If they don't mention that or describe gameplay systems or plot details they haven't witnessed, it isn't unethical. I just think it is important to point it out because certain types of games are hurt by snap judgments and create better impressions as the player gets more accustomed to the experience.

 

[KibblesBits]

And is that what you discern about these reviews? If so, please be specific about it. If not, then why are we even talking about the quality of completely unrelated reviews?

It seems like people are trying to say that these reviews are invalid without actually refuting their content by setting up straw man arguments and making non-specific accusations of unethical behavior.

The complaints about numerous enemy encounters come across as unavoidable and a terrible inconvenience in a number of these reviews when that is simply not the case. Anyone who has played the game for a decent amount of time, and I mean like an hour will have access to spells and a number of contact commands to simply make the enemies null or disinterested in fighting. For example, a level 10 mutated Persona gives you Estoma. You mutate persona by doing combo spells, a natural part of the game.

The game is old, that is granted. I make no motions to refute that, but the game mechanic complaints are not flying with me at all.

I also have played these games on first print. Game mechanic issues about encounter rate, and contacting issues can simply be solved by playing the game longer than a couple minutes.

 

[creid]

I don't think it is an unfair assumption that they didn't finish the game. These are day one reviews. I don't know when Atlus sends out their review copies, but I'd be surprised if they had much more than a week to play this 40+ hour RPG. But I don't know.

I think that's a hasty assumption. Atlus certainly could distribute them a month or so in advance, if they planned their release right.

 

[TurnipFritters]

The in game graphics are a hell of alot better than Persona 1. Great remixed soundtrack too. Kinda odd that everyone just seems...ok that they've got Persona's already though. Unless something happens later on that explains that.

Well, Yukino, Eikichi and Maya already had their Personas for some time, Tatsuya doesn't talk, so that leaves Lisa as the only character that this is new for.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

What time does the PSN update these days in the US?

 

[Midou]

I like how "hasn't aged well" somehow implies that RPGs are better now than back then...

While some more irritating elements like random battles and confusing dungeons are less common now, jRPG as a genre is not nearly as good this gen as PS1/PS2 gen.. for consoles.

 

[Akselziys]

Persona 2 Innocent Sin PSP GET !

Can't wait to play! Make sure to go buy it at retail or on PSN ASAP!

 

[Paznos]

My copy should be here on Thursday not bad for free shipping.

 

[Milkncooke]

What time does the PSN update these days in the US?

Around 5:00PM Eastern 2:00 PM Pacific on a good day. New games are usually up on the store about an hour before the update but you need search for them.

 

[Macstorm]

I don't think it is an unfair assumption that they didn't finish the game. These are day one reviews. I don't know when Atlus sends out their review copies, but I'd be surprised if they had much more than a week to play this 40+ hour RPG. But I don't know. Maybe they do play a game they think is mediocre for 5 hours a day to write a review they are paid a pittance for, if at all. And I'll go ahead and say that I don't think the guy who reviewed Trinity: Souls of Zill'Oll for RPGamer played the game very long, so it wouldn't exactly be news.

I'll go ahead and clarify some of your incorrect assumptions.

1) RPGamer reviewers are not paid at all, so it's not like we're rushing these out just to get money. We received the review build on Aug 17, so we had plenty of time to play it.

2) All reviews on RPGamer are completed unless stated as such in the review. Since I took over two years ago, only one review has been posted without finishing the game and it was stated as such in the review. This is one reason we're not always early, as few companies get us early builds.

3) I was the reviewer of Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll and I did complete it. Not sure why you would assume otherwise, other than the fact that the game was repetitive and not really that fun. If you just assumed that because I didn't score the game very high that I didn't play it, you are sorely mistaken. My completion time for that one was around 32 hours.

 

[Eusis]

I like how "hasn't aged well" somehow implies that RPGs are better now than back then...

While some more irritating elements like random battles and confusing dungeons are less common now, jRPG as a genre is not nearly as good this gen as PS1/PS2 gen.. for consoles.

If you hold it relative to the Persona series though 3 and 4 were a lot more FUN to actually play than EP was. Any aging poorly comments are probably (ideally I'd say) in that context because compared to non-SMT RPGs it's in a similar situation as back then: a game with some obnoxious flaws that REALLY stands out due to how different it is from everything else out there, and how good it is at doing that.

 

[Midou]

If you hold it relative to the Persona series though 3 and 4 were a lot more FUN to actually play than EP was. Any aging poorly comments are probably (ideally I'd say) in that context because compared to non-SMT RPGs it's in a similar situation as back then: a game with some obnoxious flaws that REALLY stands out due to how different it is from everything else out there, and how good it is at doing that.

In truth I love P3 and P4, and could not stand 1, but I think P2 changed enough to be more playable these days. Also in P2 I'm more curious from the start as to what is actually going on.

I can understand that the criticisms are legit gripes, but anyone who played RPGs in that era and still likes them now, I don't imagine would have huge issues.

 

[Mutagenic]

They didn't give a high review to a game I like, therefore they only played 15 minutes of it.

 

[Sqorgar]

3) I was the reviewer of Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll and I did complete it. Not sure why you would assume otherwise, other than the fact that the game was repetitive and not really that fun. If you just assumed that because I didn't score the game very high that I didn't play it, you are sorely mistaken. My completion time for that one was around 32 hours.

I assumed you hadn't played it because everything you wrote about the game could've been gleaned from a few hours of play. For instance, everything you write about the game's plot is from the opening cinematic. Of course, the next paragraph indicates that you skipped through the dialogue text without reading it. Nothing you say about the combat or quest systems couldn't have been discovered in the prologue.

Basically, if you put 32 hours into the game, you wrote nothing about the last 30 hours. Nor did you mention anything to indicate a mastery over or understanding of the gameplay systems. In fact, by your own admission, you consider the combat to be a war of attrition, which means you were playing it wrong. I guess I just assumed that had you played the game longer, you would've realized that.

 

[Macstorm]

I assumed you hadn't played it because everything you wrote about the game could've been gleaned from a few hours of play. For instance, everything you write about the game's plot is from the opening cinematic. Of course, the next paragraph indicates that you skipped through the dialogue text without reading it. Nothing you say about the combat or quest systems couldn't have been discovered in the prologue.

Basically, if you put 32 hours into the game, you wrote nothing about the last 30 hours. Nor did you mention anything to indicate a mastery over or understanding of the gameplay systems. In fact, by your own admission, you consider the combat to be a war of attrition, which means you were playing it wrong. I guess I just assumed that had you played the game longer, you would've realized that.

Believe what you will, either that I didn't play it or that I was "playing it wrong." I'm not debating that point any further here, though I would be glad to pick apart your flawed logic in a more appropriate venue.

That said, since this is a Persona 2 thread. Our reviewer did finish it and didn't hate it, so if you don't like that it got a 3.5/5 (which is good on our scale, since we actually use the whole thing), no amount of discussion is going to make you feel differently.