I think "one of the weakest" was a good statement for Yu's, yes.
Although Yukiko's story is definitely terrible.
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Persona 4 Arena |EU OT| Heartbeat, Heartbreak
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
Although Yukiko's story is definitely terrible.
If you just mash your way through the text of other people's stories, it not really a big hurdle. That's pretty much what I'd suggest doing if someone only wants the barebones story and doesn't care about everyone's distinct internal monologue about the same events. Pay attention to one story, mash through the rest until you unlock Labrys, pay attention to hers, and then finish whoever's story you care about.
I guess, but MK9 and Injustice were worth it to me just for the story modes. P4A's is not on that caliber, though, and I'd say one could get P4A just for the story mode if they're really invested in the Persona (especially Persona 3) characters.
Anyone thinking "I liked Mortal Kombat's story mode so maybe I'll play Persona 4 Arena for its story mode" needs to be informed that there are very few actual cutscenes, and it's mostly just talking heads and unvoiced internal monolgues.
The point is, one shouldn't judge the game based off Omi's post, as Shahed did. He hasn't given it a fair chance, and it's unfair for Shahed (or others) to be biased as a result.
And because you're anal about it Dantis, I'll go ahead and edit my post.
The point is, one shouldn't judge the game based off Omi's post, as Shahed did. He hasn't given it a fair chance, and it's unfair for Shahed (or others) to be biased as a result.
And because you're anal about it Dantis, I'll go ahead and edit my post.
Let's not pretend you wouldn't have done the same to me!
buddha0991
Member
That is fair.
Let's not pretend you wouldn't have done the same to me!
Only in jest!
Although, the subject matter kinda ticked me off there, hence the poor wording on my part.
The story modes for the P4 characters are really just fun, lighthearted fanservice. And like someone else mentioned, it's a little generalizing due to the fact that it's not a 50 hour game. I liked the P3 character stories, and particularly Labrys.
It's really not an essential story, even if it DOES end on a cliffhanger. I wouldn't take it seriously either way. I enjoyed it because it was more of the characters I loved. I wasn't expecting P4-2.
If you don't like robot girls, then I'd probably stay away.
It's really not an essential story, even if it DOES end on a cliffhanger. I wouldn't take it seriously either way. I enjoyed it because it was more of the characters I loved. I wasn't expecting P4-2.
If you don't like robot girls, then I'd probably stay away.
This makes me want to learn Naoto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXfqjlpecDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXfqjlpecDM
Regarding that, I can definitely agree.Sophia said Yu's is the weakest, not one of.
Yu's is better than Yukiko's.
Sometimes I regret maining Shadow Labrys because she has the lowest combo rate in the game. But then I remember I have Asterius and all is good in the world.
Oh yeah, and here's a fun P4A clash video for people who haven't seen it yet.
Holy shit you can dash through Teddy's ball super?! I've been super jumping that for MONTHS! fuck!
THAT IS SO MUCH EASIER
Timing is crazy, though, and you're screwed if he did the D variation and not C, so it's much safer to super jump and forward dash, especially with characters who have moves that can keep them in the air longer.
Some more thoughts after putting a few more hours into it:
Gameplay
- The game is not very good at teaching you how to play, which is a cardinal sin considering the audience its targeted at.
- I find it unplayable with my arcade stick -- much better with the DS3, which is... unusual.
- There is a degree of sense made out of the fast-paced gameplay when I'm not struggling with my own equipment, so I probably overblew how much I found the game too overwhelming, but I still feel it does a bad job at teaching you the functions it does have. The game moves at far too fast a pace for me to practice techniques out, making them all but worthless.
- Anyone with a European version having trouble with online? I was playing with a school friend on the same ISP in the same city, and we were both having disconnect problems between us and with other players, plus one other player remarked that he'd been having DCs all day. It could be the exchange in my city being screwy, but I hope the netcode isn't broken in the PAL version.
- There are some interesting characters to play, but I still feel the learning curve for this game is frustrating if you're not a hardcore fighting game fan. Super annoying considering it's Persona.
Story/Persona-side
- I don't like the Arc sprites. They look off, and I feel they've not really captured the art style of the Persona games perfectly. I'm finding it hard to express this idea, but something definitely feels off.
- Story mode is balls. No roundabout way to say this: it fucking sucks. If you're in this just for the Persona story, I'd probably not bother.
- MY ARMOUR
- The whole presentation feels like a cheaply made visual novel. Even the application of background music is appalling: they've just pulled tracks from P3 and P4 and slapped them in where it feels vaguely appropriate. A minor concern, maybe, but I always liked the tracks from P3 and P4 and to see them used in this way is pretty sad.
Overall, I'm not really happy with this. Online is just about fun for me to hang onto the game for a few more days, but I really don't like this. Certainly not worth the £30 I paid for it.
Gameplay
- The game is not very good at teaching you how to play, which is a cardinal sin considering the audience its targeted at.
- I find it unplayable with my arcade stick -- much better with the DS3, which is... unusual.
- There is a degree of sense made out of the fast-paced gameplay when I'm not struggling with my own equipment, so I probably overblew how much I found the game too overwhelming, but I still feel it does a bad job at teaching you the functions it does have. The game moves at far too fast a pace for me to practice techniques out, making them all but worthless.
- Anyone with a European version having trouble with online? I was playing with a school friend on the same ISP in the same city, and we were both having disconnect problems between us and with other players, plus one other player remarked that he'd been having DCs all day. It could be the exchange in my city being screwy, but I hope the netcode isn't broken in the PAL version.
- There are some interesting characters to play, but I still feel the learning curve for this game is frustrating if you're not a hardcore fighting game fan. Super annoying considering it's Persona.
Story/Persona-side
- I don't like the Arc sprites. They look off, and I feel they've not really captured the art style of the Persona games perfectly. I'm finding it hard to express this idea, but something definitely feels off.
- Story mode is balls. No roundabout way to say this: it fucking sucks. If you're in this just for the Persona story, I'd probably not bother.
- MY ARMOUR
- The whole presentation feels like a cheaply made visual novel. Even the application of background music is appalling: they've just pulled tracks from P3 and P4 and slapped them in where it feels vaguely appropriate. A minor concern, maybe, but I always liked the tracks from P3 and P4 and to see them used in this way is pretty sad.
Overall, I'm not really happy with this. Online is just about fun for me to hang onto the game for a few more days, but I really don't like this. Certainly not worth the £30 I paid for it.
I disagree that it is unplayable on stick as I ... play it on stick. As does everyone I have ever see play it in person and on stream.
I also disagree that the game does a poor job of teaching you how to play, as I learned how to play.
Anecdotal, sure, but it's what I know.
I also disagree that the game does a poor job of teaching you how to play, as I learned how to play.
Anecdotal, sure, but it's what I know.
I play all my fighters on a stick, and this is the only one I've struggled with. I just cannot find a layout that I'm not struggling with.
Most of my complaints are personal preference, mind. And I care more about the Persona story side than the fighting game side, so that colours my opinion of the game more.
Most of my complaints are personal preference, mind. And I care more about the Persona story side than the fighting game side, so that colours my opinion of the game more.
When was the last time you had to learn a new layout for a fighter? Did it take time?
Hot damn, haha. This is just outright damning.
Glad you agree about the story though. It's hilarious that so many reviewers stated that it was up to the standards of the original P4.
buddha0991
Member
I think its similar, the issue here is, the characters aren't strong enough to back it up this time
Oh, and the inner monologues.
I think it's more that it's a rote repeat of their P4 outing, more than they're not strong enough to save a weak story. There's no new development for any of them, which is doable. I think they played it safe with the P4 cast.
And the inner monologues.
CrazyTank940
Member
Yeah the way you play story is garbage. I don't need one story mode for each damn investigation team member. Just give me one for the whole team itself, not one per team member. I don't want to hear the same damn conversation about how OH LOOK GUYS YU'S BACK 4 times in a row in story mode, seriously.
As for the sprites, I like them. Sure they're different but I like it.
And yeah, MY ARMOR is indeed lulworthy. Reminds me of MY DEFENSES and MY SHIELD. Speaking of Armor and Defenses...
Lies.
Seriously. Mitsuru's inner monologues are comedy gold!
What is lesson mode missing, in your opinion?
And straight up, this is one of the easiest modern 2D fighters to get into, so I'm not sure where people are coming from when they say it has a steep learning curve unless they're really not familiar with the fighting game genre.
China Dont Care
Banned
I completely suck at this game online, i stopped playing it last month. All i played was arcade. Also Score Attack is fucking crazy/
Is Lesson mode really that crucial? I hadn't planned on going through it. I always get bored a few lessons in.
Also, Omi, want to start an EU-only room tomorrow at some point? I don't feel like jumping straight into the game with a group of people who are going to wipe the floor with me.
Also, Omi, want to start an EU-only room tomorrow at some point? I don't feel like jumping straight into the game with a group of people who are going to wipe the floor with me.
CrazyTank940
Member
Yeah, Score Attack isn't even Arc's normal score attack. It;s UnlimitedMars mode aka Everyone's broken and OP and have fun trying to win. It truly is a cruel thing.
What was bad about the tutorial mode besides having an overwhelming number of mechanics?
The lack of DP motions and half-circle motions are somewhat nice.
How much time do you spend in practice mode practicing them?
What are your upload speeds (yours and his)? Vicinity means little if you both make for poor hosts.
What are you trying to learn right now?
Obviously it's not crucial unless you plan on learning the fundamentals of the gameplay instead of mashing your way through fights.
That was one of my main reasons for preordering P4A. I'm starting to think I should have spend my money elsewhere. Guess I'll have to wait for my copy to arrive before I can make up my mind.
It's great at teaching you the base gameplay, but it doesn't teach you the inner workings of characters nor when to apply stuff.
It's still better than Capcom fighting games and their non-existent tutorial tho.
Isn't that what Challenge Mode's for?
And at a certain point, I think that it's unreasonable for a fighting game to teach players every little detail about everything and that they need to learn through experience or take the initiative and go in practice mode if they actually care that much.
Answers in bold.
Challenge Mode is a piece of shit. One third of it is stuff that should be in lesson mode. One third of it is stuff that should have it's own tutorial. The remaining third is impractical combos mixed with bread and butter combos.
It's awful stuff and worst of all it doesn't teach you why you should do something. I don't excuse Capcom for it, and I won't excuse Arc System Works either.
We're nowhere near unreasonable. Not even close. That's miles off hidden behind a valley we can't see.
So you really think a fighting game should handhold players through every little detail? Through footsies, mind games, Burst baiting, Persona meter management, when to Gold Burst, when to Air Turn, cross-ups, oki, counter hit properties, throw reject miss in addition to individual character elements such as frame data, health and specific match-up information?
If someone isn't planning on actually being the least bit competitive at the game, none of these things matter to them anyways and I bet they wouldn't even care about having all of this information centralized in a wall of text for a tutorial section. Because of this, Lesson Mode does exactly what it needs to in teaching the basics of the game's mechanics for casual players and not burdening them with advanced information they wouldn't need to know. If someone actually cares about this stuff, then they're already the kinds of people who will go into training mode to practice things out and experiment and search for resources that are, nowadays, extremely easy to find concerning whatever they might be looking for.
Seeing as I'm just going to look it up all online anyhow while beginner players will be lost in the dark, yes.
Again, why would beginner players care about this stuff unless they plan to be competitive at it? And if they, for some reason, did care about all of the advanced terminology and techniques, they're one click away from everything they could possibly want.
You're missing the point: You have to hook a player first before they become competitive. They don't simply manifest out of nowhere.
Your logic is what harmed the fighting game genre before, and what will eventually keep it a niche genre. This isn't 1994 and the release of Super Turbo anymore, we can provide proper tutorials without resorting to sites like dustloop. Hell, let's find ways to let the regulars contribute even!
I agree with hooking a player in before they are willing to take their game further, but then how does teaching them all of the little gameplay details or throwing a novel at them in the form of a tutorial incentivize newcomers to want to take the game more seriously instead of intimidating them?
Edit: I guess having separate mini tutorials for all of the characters would help accommodate new players and give them a starting point for where to start learning, but eh. I guess I'm not convinced that people wouldn't still find fault with anything that won't let them immediately start winning matches after merely coming from the tutorial mode.
Because the information is there. Obviously there's a thing as too much information (See: Dead or Alive 5+'s tutorial), but we can provide more than we already have. There are ways to integrate it into the solo modes too that don't involve a poor challenge mode. One fighting game that actually did this was Dragon Ball Z: Budokai, surprisingly...
I've said this before, but I probably would have given up on the genre if not for Sirlin's excellent Super Turbo tutorial.
That's not a bug. It's been the case since BlazBlue with Arc's fighters that players are allowed to hear the voice tracks that they themselves selected when playing online, meaning that if one player preferred the English voices and the other preferred Japanese, they both get to hear what they want.
EDIT: Wow, I was really late with that. Oh well.
Then you should give the game more time. If you want to better your techniques (don't know what you mean here by that), practice hitting them with a stationary dummy instead of a live opponent if you can't hit with consistency. You can always practice technology/counters whenever, wherever.
1 mbps upload is okay for hosting, but how many bars you two get between each other? 1?
I feel like, in many ways, fighting games have not evolved out of the arcade days. Back then they wanted combos to be long and difficult, and kept a lot of that stuff unwritten because they wanted people to keep putting in quarters in order to train.
I don't want to knock the whole genre, I love fighters. And the fact that they ARE complicated is what makes it exciting. However, I just feel like a lot of it is so rooted in archaic design that no longer has a place. It's as Sophia said: fighting games are stuck in a niche because they do very little to help people get started. A kid isn't going to be a great football player from day one, but it's pretty easy for him to pick up a football and immediately have fun with it. This is why soccer is so popular all around the world: all it requires is that you can kick a ball.
It's the metagame we all clamor for anyway. That's what separates the best from the rest. It's the weirdly inordinate amount of memorization you have to do before you can even start messing around with the metagame that throws people off. Ask a lot of people why they can't get into a fighter: It's usually dragon punches.
I don't want to knock the whole genre, I love fighters. And the fact that they ARE complicated is what makes it exciting. However, I just feel like a lot of it is so rooted in archaic design that no longer has a place. It's as Sophia said: fighting games are stuck in a niche because they do very little to help people get started. A kid isn't going to be a great football player from day one, but it's pretty easy for him to pick up a football and immediately have fun with it. This is why soccer is so popular all around the world: all it requires is that you can kick a ball.
It's the metagame we all clamor for anyway. That's what separates the best from the rest. It's the weirdly inordinate amount of memorization you have to do before you can even start messing around with the metagame that throws people off. Ask a lot of people why they can't get into a fighter: It's usually dragon punches.