Ok, as long as I'm soliciting tips, how do you counter? I can block pretty well now, for someone who's just starting anyway, and am starting to be able to pick out when my opponent will go high or low, but I've yet to learn how to get a counter in.
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Persona 4: Arena |OT| Midnight's Just Around The Corner
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
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Ok, as long as I'm soliciting tips, how do you counter? I can block pretty well now, for someone who's just starting anyway, and am starting to be able to pick out when my opponent will go high or low, but I've yet to learn how to get a counter in.
Shouta
Member
There's some seriously obvious BS in this too. I mean Marvel is like BS in general because of X-Factor but at least that works for everyone. Offensive Furious Actions are way more powerful than Defensive ones, recovery on quite a lot of attacks being too fast, high/low being really ridiculous with personas, etc are just a few examples of stuff that's just makes me go "what?" I mean, Naoto has 2 ways of IKing you and it still feels like that's not enough compared to the shenanigans a lot of other characters have and she has one of the lowest life totals in the game.
Hilariously enough, I've never raged while playing Marvel. Although I've certainly gotten frustrated at Street Fighter before. =P
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
/me mash A
it's really not a big deal. You just jump back, or hit them. If you are getting hit by mash a on wake up, you need to really work on your basic defense game.
Prototype-03
Member
GGs. You have the same problem too. You use Ragna in BB and Mitsuru in p4a. They're both offensive characters but you're blocking most of the time. You also need to bait more.
It depends on the character - some have command counters and all of those are their own world really. But when I say counter I typically just mean understanding what you can and can't do to assertively get people off of you. Mainly seeing the gaps in their attack pattern and blockstrings. When it is and isn't safe to return fire basically.
So many people hop into fighting games and have no idea how to block anything then get mad at the world when its their own fault for not simply blocking low or teching throws. If you can get defense down first, then you make the game sooooooo much easier because your opponent has to think harder as well.
Offense can come later imo
Ragingnight
Member
All the BS is usually heavily warned though.
Orgia aigis overhead being stupid fast is obvious because she has to be in orgia mode.
Yukiko unblockable is obvious because of the firebreak or the high/low "unblockable" setup with the persona.
Naoto IK is fair because you have to make numerous mistakes to have 0 fate counters.
etc etc
I have some issues but its not nearly the same as marvel.
edit
Wait what high low? There isn't a high low as fast as Magneto mvc3 or mvc3. Nor are there instant overheads where you have to guess the block. Lastly kanji's dp is mostly defensive (you never use it offensively) and its the best dp in the game.
Guess the advice my friend gave of "First, learn to block" was spot on. Really glad to hear that. It's certainly helped. The games I've won online have all been against other, clearly new players who only know how to mash their auto-combo and a couple other techniques and don't block themselves. I made a Yu player super angry when I just blocked or jumped over the lighting he constantly threw.
And if you're not inflicted with Fear.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Ya know what I might do this(cpu to 100) next time I play, question is who do I main. Yo DY you saw a good amount of my play "style" right? Who do I have a better chance of maining Yosuke or Naoto?
It's screwed me over so many times, but I really like it.
Ragingnight
Member
I actually like that feature. Its probably to balance it by not having people with dumb ass hit boxes that hit both sides.
The turn around lets you have cool options such as jump CD* air dash forward CD then do whatever you want or vice versa. You create new arcs and new air dash spacing.
CD* change directions
Shouta
Member
Uh, there's a lot of other stuff that isn't easily warned.
Recovery on a bunch of attacks being ridiculous is a big one that comes to mind, Mitsuru getting a free chance to do two auto-combos even if I blocked the first one, Yu's Cross-blade being unpunishable (or Kuma's Circus, or Aigis' shield rush, etc). Then there are Yu and Mitsuru's Furious Actions being ridiculously buff. Kanji and Aigis are good but at least they have some holes in it, and a bunch of other stuff.
You haven't encountered someone that was ridiculous inside with the persona yet, have you? I ran into a Chie the other night that once she got in and if i didn't have burst with Naoto, it was almost impossible for me to block because there were attacks going everywhere. Blocked my attempt at an all-out attack and kept it up too >=(
SolarKnight
Member
Well, it can't really be natural if it's never/almost never been in a game before can it?
Circus Bear is completely punishable, Teddie is exposed when falling.
Pretty sure Cross Slash is as well, I'm pretty sure I've hit someone with A Bear Screw afterwards, though it's possible they weren't blocking.
And I think Aigis can be punished when using that rush thing as well, if you have an attack that can go through and get in close enough (Bear Screw does this), though again, they might just not have been blocking.
Unnatural isn't the right word. I meant uncomfortable. It just makes doing cross-ups with Yu really annoying.
SolarKnight
Member
Well, it's important in the sense that it'll allow you to punish stuff that you otherwise wouldn't be able to, but don't force yourself to do it if you're not sure you'll get it. Not getting hit is more important.
Orgia Aigis overhead is insanely hard to block, the fact that you she can sweep cancel into it is retarded. It's as bad as Magneto easily.
Not everyone has one but there are still ambiguous crossups without having to turn, fucken Aigis.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
anyone up for some xbox360 action?
Shouta
Member
I couldn't with an actual combo on Circus Bear, guy came down legs swinging lol. Though I guess a ranged shot or a super well-placed poke works. I haven't been able to punish cross-slash or The Shield Rush in close yet. I guess it could be because of it being online I dunno.
Ragingnight
Member
do it if you can do it safely. gives you meter and 2 frames adv
Cross Slash is negative on block. Yes it is unpunishable but they wasted 50 sp and you can roll through it after the super flash I believe if your timing is good.
Mitsu is just naturally a safe character. That is her whole archetype. She is a poke/frame trap base character. Yes she is strong but that is the nature of games. There will always be strong chars.
Shield Rush is definitely punishable. I punished it multiple times.
Teddie's unblockable set him up in a bad situation. A lot of character can air unblockable counter hit him free.
Yu/Mitsuru dp are just good dps. Doesn't make them broken or overpowered.
Chie high/low isn't nearly as fast as mvc2/mvc3 high/lows. Not even close nor do they kill you. Its her pressure that is deadly and you screw up because its a setup that anybody can see in which its nonstop pressure unless you know the holes in it. Its not a free combo starter, there are holes. Them blocking your all out attack means they read you and reacted accordingly.
cj_iwakura
Member
Yukiko's joke ending...wow.
I never knew she had it in her.
I never knew she had it in her.
SolarKnight
Member
I just loved how Yu
was all "if I had to suffer then you'll all have to suffer with me" XD Him instantly going into his battle stance as soon as he sees the food was hilarious to me too.
Prototype-03
Member
Sorry, I had to do it. I'd feel sympathy but you use Mitsuru. You'll out bs me soon. Mitsuru is Aigis' worst matchup.
Thanks everyone here. I'm happy to find a fighting game thread willing to help a completely clueless, new player out. All the tips have been really helpful, especially the macro one. It's made getting my SB moves, something I was having a ton of trouble with, much easier. After I get some more practice in, you'll certainly be seeing more of me.
Young Magus
Junior Member
For the record, how many joke endings are there and are they all worth it?
Only one I got was
Kanji's
SolarKnight
Member
I THINK just Chie, Yukiko, and Kanji but I could be wrong, and yes, they're totall worth it.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Alright, I think I'm done for now.
Good games TWILT. Your Yukiko is good.
You should take advantage of that pretty much instant jab more. It stuffed everything I tried to do when you used it.
Good games TWILT. Your Yukiko is good.
You should take advantage of that pretty much instant jab more. It stuffed everything I tried to do when you used it.
Ragingnight
Member
Twilt picks yukiko? Did he always =O
Good games PoorFate. Sorry for leaving without warning; randomly disconnected for me =/
I'll take note of that. Your Naoto's really good though. I always it was GG for me when you landed Mudo in the corner lol.
I'm no pro with her, but she is my sub. =P
He's been playing her as far as I know.
He usually starts with her when I wanna face his Yu!
Shouta
Member
How negative? I couldn't punish it with Naoto when I've blocked it myself. I mean I guess it could be because it's online but I really don't know.
There's nothing wrong with a character being strong because she's a poke and frame trap based character, it's being safe all the time because of it that's the problem. I'd be ok with her specials being pretty safe but that A combo's speed and recovery is just ridiculous.
I haven't been able to punish it, I think. I was right next to Aigis and was swinging A and the guy blocked it still for whatever reason. I'll have to set the AI up later and see but I couldn't do it online.
I confirmed it with a buddy of mine that plays Teddie but he can come down swinging attacks if he misses the Circus Bear. You can punish him for it but it's not going to be big free damage.
You're kidding me right? Compared to Yousuke, Naoto, and Kuma's FAs? Heck, even Chie's on the ground is horrible in comparison. Yu and Mitsuru's FAs are far more powerful than most everyone else's in the game in terms of being a defensive move. That's how it is in general for the FAs, the counter-hit ones aren't nearly as good as the offensive orientated ones that do an actual attack rather than take a hit to activate.
Creating a high low guessing game isn't just about fast it's about number of attacks/length, forced blocked situations and the options you can get. I wish I had a cap card to show this replay. It's not impossible but it'd be pretty inhuman to get away from it damage free without using a boost.
Shouta
Member
Yeah, but being able to attack means is pretty significant compared to not being able to do anything until you land. Kind of limits it for some characters that want to punish him if they dodge that rolling ball.
Also, I just tested Cross Slash against Yu and the pushback on block makes it really hard to punish him at all with Naoto. I can get 1 hit in if I'm next to him in the corner and block it but that's about it. I can't run in and punish him and he'd be able to block before any other attack could come out.
Edit: Ok Aigis' Shield Rush is punishable, must've been an online thing.
cj_iwakura
Member
Doesn't everyone get one?
Also, started Akihiko's story. Awesome from the start, worlds better than the P4 ones dragging then getting awesome.
Wow, just like the games they're from!
Joke endings? No, I don't think so. Cleared the story mode 100%, and only got those three ending with an abrupt "END".
All of them weird. XD
Nope, just those three. Though the normal routes are pretty hilarious in their own right.
SolarKnight
Member
From what I've played, no. Yosuke's never really gives you a chance, and the only thing Yu's options are good for is for an extra scene at the end IIRC.
I have to agree if only for the SisCon Kingpin of Steel. Good god that was perfect.
Ragingnight
Member
I said its unpunishable. People don't know frames but its definitely negative.
Her coup is negative. Its safe but negative. Her A also is slow in comparison to some of the cast and thus you have the ability to mount an offense. Yes it is difficult against a good mitsuru but its not impossible. There is a vid of a high level japanese play of Liz vs Mitsu and they were trading wins left and right (the match is 7-3 in mitsu favor).
I have punished Perorist hard drive super a few times. I'll test it later.
I never said their dp wasn't good. It is clearly good but its not game breaking. You just have to respect it and that is that. Yu you can punish quite clean. Not 100% sure about mitsu but I would assume its the same case.
And after the teddie unblockable he is in the air and can't move. You get a free anti air unblockable with majority of the cast. If you're one of the few that don't you get a free mixup/setup because he can't move. Its a really bad idea to just throw them out.
Lastly those oki setups have holes in them. They aren't fool-proof and guarantee setup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLJzWCoF3Y Here are some of the ways out of the setup (not all).
edit
I'll agree with you that there are some things that make the difficult for the defender at times but its nothing other 2d fighters have done somewhere down the line.
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