ShadowSoldier89
Member
theres a line in Nier Automata spoken by the commander thats as bad as anything in P5. That line sucks in japanese as well.
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Persona 5 |OT2| Someone must have been helping you go to bed early. Talk!
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
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AHA-Lambda
Member
Don't know if it's been mentioned but Persona 5 is in stock at shop to in the UK.
Thought it was worth mentioning as it's the first I've seen any online retailer get it back in stock since launch, and at non-scalper prices.
Thought it was worth mentioning as it's the first I've seen any online retailer get it back in stock since launch, and at non-scalper prices.
spleenpoker
Member
That is really disheartening to hear. I found all the characters personalities so distinct and charming in P4G. At least the dub will help iron over some of the more glaring texts.
I think Atlus did do a re-editing for the Devil Survivor 2 remake, so it's not impossible.
CrimsonFist
Member
The original Devil Survivor 2 wasn't dubbed. They re-translated it due to the addition of a dub.
This was me, actually. I'm not native speaker and have a bad habit of assuming I'm just not knowledgeable enough when I find lines that sound odd in my head. But after seeing multiple examples of shoddy lines, I've started to notice them all and it sucks.
Yup, the work on P4 was stellar. And actually the example I talk about in the last post compares Morgana's lines with Teddie's, whose speech is very defined and recognizable, even ignoring bear puns.
In P5? Unless the character speaks in an overly elegant way like Igor, or overly casual like Ryuji, it's almost impossible to tell who's talking if you're just showed a random line from a member of the main cast.
I think if it weren't for the (awesome) dub, I'd have a hard time telling what kind of personality most characters are supposed to have lol.
But yeah all that aside I'm not really looking to convince you not to try this haha, it's one of the best things I've ever played. It's just sad to see the faults in the localization being downplayed so often.
Yea, the good VA goes a long way towards establishing personality and masking any word salads that pop up. It's a beast of a translation project no doubt, the game pushes along the narrative using a combination of methods, and there's aspects that are specific to Japan in ways that don't always correlate to Western culture. I noticed rough translation spots with more frequency than any Atlus game previously but it was't really a problem either, if that makes sense.
Got persona 5 yesterday, I'm at the Kamoshida Palace (the second time). I have a question about the save system. Can I clear some enemies, run back to a save room, and then save and go back the way I came without enemies respawning? The enemies respawn at all? I'm paranoid about losing my progress considering you can't save whenever you want, but I don't want to save and the just have to re battle all the same enemies again.
I don't think so. Enemies respawn every time you go back to a map.
It's just the use of grandiose or superfluous words (that feel quite awkward for a high school student to say, and that includes the eccentric Yusuke), where they could easily say it in a much more concise and "normal" manner. Or someone will say a line in a way where it feels rather unnatural, where it's like yea, this is a sentence, but it isn't one that people would actually say in everyday speech. So basically, all the threads that are criticizing it or whatever, I fully agree with them now. Like I admittedly noticed it since the beginning, but I dunno, I thought it was more or less a necessary evil. Then you find yourself 90 hours in, with you getting rather sick of it like 30+ hours ago.
And due to it being a game that is heavy on the dialogue, it admittedly sours the experience somewhat, and makes moments cheesier or lamer than they need to be, or even straight up cringeworthy. That being said the VAs still do great work
besides Haru
Curious, what line was that?
Well anyways, Nier isn't 100% flawless, I recall Adam having some cheesy lines, but my point wasn't to compare which is better. I went out of my way not to because I thought P5 was ultimately fine in this regard, that I'd be nitpicking like others were but nah, it could really use some work. And that just gets further exacerbated by the fact that it is a really long, dialogue-heavy game. Also those recap texting sessions don't help things either.
spleenpoker
Member
I will definitely be buying and playing this soon, I've been waiting for this since I played P4G on day one, its just really sad to hear that it didn't get the treatment it so rightfully deserved.
I unfortunately know how hard it can be reading and especially recognizing a character from lines of dialogue in a fan translation which is always in serious need of an editor, so I'm sure I'll be able to follow along but I would be lying if I said I wasn't disheartened to hear all this.
I'm curious if anyone who played the JP version can chime in on this. Teddie is a very exaggerated character in general. His speech style is distinct precisely because he's meant to be strange and over-the-top. I'd bet if you took dialogue from the more "normal" characters in P4, like Yukiko or Naoto or Dojima or Adachi, you could make them sound as plain and same-y as the Morgana dialogue there.
My read of Morgana is that Morgana is deliberately much more plain in his speech patterns than Teddie ever was. Teddie believes he's a cute teddy bear everyone loves, Morgana believes he's a normal human trapped in a cat's body (and thus speaks much more like a normal human). To those who played the Japanese version, does Morgana have any specific distinct way of speaking?
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I only bring it up because it does feel like you are overreaching on P5. There are some definite problems, and they are noticeable (especially "was a scum" and grammar in places), but you have blown up a few lines that arent even awkward. Suchas the one I noted earlier.
Nier automata spoiler. Seriously guys this is a nier spoiler in the persona thread just so I can use it for this conversation
"Unbelievable...The aliens who haven't revealed themselves in hundreds of years...were hiding underground" Really really awkward overexplanation, especially when shes talking to herself. Shouldve just been "The aliens...were hiding underground"
I'm on the second venture into Kamoshidas palace. I've been reading online guides and they mention going in and out of dungeons to requip items, health, etc. Do dungeons have different entrance points that allow you to skip through the parts you have already discovered and the enemies you have beaten? Will the enemies respawn once I leave? Can you fast travel to the save rooms inside dungeons?
Also, I think I missed the lesson from Igor that teaches you how to capture new personas, knock down enemies, and fuse the personas. Any way to initiate that lesson? I think I've only visited him twice in my dreams.
Can my early game actions end up fucking up my later game experience? Is it possible to miss vital information, characters, items, etc?
I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
Also, I think I missed the lesson from Igor that teaches you how to capture new personas, knock down enemies, and fuse the personas. Any way to initiate that lesson? I think I've only visited him twice in my dreams.
Can my early game actions end up fucking up my later game experience? Is it possible to miss vital information, characters, items, etc?
I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
Huh? How did I blow up a few lines when I literally only said one specific phrase? Other than that, I was just speaking in general based on my 90+ hours in the game.
As for that line, really
, that was a comparable issue? I just looked it up to refresh my memory, seems fine to me, though I guess it could be improved slightly? Don't see how it's an overexplanation either. Regardless, again, the focus is on P5 here,
Nier's could be shit and I'd still have the same criticisms for P5's script/localization.
Nier's could be shit and I'd still have the same criticisms for P5's script/localization.
motorised mallard
Member
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Morgana is doing the "look at my balls!" thing when you craft lockpicks and other stuff at the attic? Just wondering, why do it?
Also, have not seen anyone mention the tentacles of
either.
Also, have not seen anyone mention the tentacles of
Futaba's awakening, the part where she gets lifted in to the UFO,
When you find a safe room in a dungeon, you can use it to fast-travel to the entrance of the dungeon or to other safe rooms you've find by pressing R1 while in the safe room. Enemies will respawn when you enter or exit a room. You can also fast-travel to any safe room from the entrance the same way.
You can't redo tutorial battles, but you can reread tutorial text from the pause (Triangle) menu under "System." tl;dr hitting enemies with either the element they are weak to or a critical hit will knock them down. Knocking an enemy down will let the party member who performed the knock-down get a follow-up turn (and later, you will gain the ability to "pass" that follow-up turn to a different party member). Knock down all enemies in a fight to initiate a "hold up." From a hold-up, you can either do an "all-out attack" that does significant damage to all enemies, or negotiate with the enemy to either become your Persona, give you extra money, or give you an item. You can also have fusion explained to you again from the Velvet Room.
As long as you do the dungeons before the deadline, and always do something during your free time (Confidants first, raising social stats second), you can't really fuck yourself late-game because of something you didn't do early on.
I ended up just reloading an earlier save and ignoring my hour of progress last night. Oh well, anything for some samurai thief action.
I don't think they can be bought, but they're fairly common in Mementos chests.
I don't think they can be bought, but they're fairly common in Mementos chests.
Wyndstryker
Member
At the entrance and safe rooms you can load up the map and fast travel between them.
Really? I always end up getting the same crappy weapon or dirty clothes from those chests, I don't really go after them when I'm there though, I just go for the target or the exit to the next floor.
Oh well I guess I'll go farm those chest then, thanks.
Thanks!
I haven't played the Japanese version, but I think you're kind of missing the point.
Teddie had particularly characterful dialogue compared to the rest of the P4 cast (I guess, although it consists mainly of bad puns and come ons), while Morgana doesn't attempt to have the same kind of dialogue. However, even with Teddie and Morgana being different sorts of characters, you can see that Morgana is translated/written in a much less effective way, but that only becomes clear when you put Morgana's dialogue in the context of the other characters in P5.
It's hard to fully describe in isolated examples, although I appreciate that people are trying to do that, because this is an issue that is rife with almost every character in Persona 5. Stock phrases, stilted and verbose nonsense, frequent syntax errors within that, and a general lack of care is present in just about every dialogue section in the game.
At least half of this game consists of reading dialogue and pressing X, and so much of that time just feels totally wasted - I've started just skipping through things that don't seem to be important now, because I've seen enough of the game that I know I'm not missing anything good. If Futaba or Yusuke have something to say, I'll check it out, but otherwise it's just gonna be some vague bullshit that, if it does manage to make sense, will have lost any emotional impact it might have had before translation in doing so.
The examples which are pointing out that it is hard to tell which character is speaking from a line of dialogue is one thing, sure it would be nice to have that kind of personality in here, but I think more importantly that the lines taken either in or out of context are just plain bad. Whether it sounds like a real person or not, you really have to meet the game more than half way to care about what is going on a lot of the time.
The VA really works miracles by managing to present this garbled junk in a semi-convincing way. They don't even sound bad when delivering sentences that clearly have words missing from them.
edit:
Just wanted to add another thing about this - if the translation was so bad it became entertaining because it was wonky and produced colourful nonsense, like a lot of 90's games did, I'd be having a much better time. I think the reason I'm so bent out of shape about it is cos I wanted to enjoy playing this and while I don't hate the game, the story is boring the hell out of me and I didn't realise it until I was quite a way in. It's frustrating.
Man, what's the point. I guess you only see it at the entrance of a Palace or Memento?
The discussion was specifically about how the localized dialogue, relative to the original Japanese version, failed to show how characters' personalities come through in how they talk. My point in regards to that specific discussion is that Morgana and Teddie seems like an unfair comparison, because Teddie has a deliberately strange manner of speaking that will obviously show more flair than any "normal" person's speech would.
Your point - that a lot of the dialogue is stilted and unnatural regardless of "personality" - is a different one, and one I'd probably be more inclined to agree with. I'm probably more prone to tolerating it because I grew up with fansubbed anime, but I can absolutely see that it's there.
Teddie ends his lines with 'kuma'. Which atlus translated into all kinds of bearjokes.
Morgana starts his lines with 'wagahai wa'. Which is probably a reference to the novel 'Wagahai wa Neko de aru' (I Am a Cat) written by Natsume Soseki. It's a more sophisticated way than just adding 'nyan' to every sentence and making it into a cat joke.
At least that's what it seemed to me. Teddie was written as a goofy bear character and got a goofy Japanese voice actor aka Kappei Yamaguchi. Morgana is written as a more serious character, but still retaining the playfulness of a cat. A role that fits our Japanese pikachu aka Ikue Otani.
I love them both.
Morgana starts his lines with 'wagahai wa'. Which is probably a reference to the novel 'Wagahai wa Neko de aru' (I Am a Cat) written by Natsume Soseki. It's a more sophisticated way than just adding 'nyan' to every sentence and making it into a cat joke.
At least that's what it seemed to me. Teddie was written as a goofy bear character and got a goofy Japanese voice actor aka Kappei Yamaguchi. Morgana is written as a more serious character, but still retaining the playfulness of a cat. A role that fits our Japanese pikachu aka Ikue Otani.
I love them both.
I've had a save at the end of Palace 7, calling card sent. I'm having trouble finishing this, don't want it to end. I got too much of a backlog to jump into NG+ so it will be awhile before I ever come back around to this game and regardless once this is done the first time its of course never the same.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Just beat the game. 127 hours. Probably closer to 115 considering all the time I played on Vita and then let the console idle...
I don't have the time to write down all my thoughts on the game but overall: a resounding meh. Which sounds crazy of course for a game that I played that long =) The Persona series is so important to me that I had to know no matter what, I had to get to the end and I'm glad I did. There's a really good game hidden in there.
Almost all of the individual parts are better than in previous entries but it never came together in quite the right way for me. Exceptional art style and music, great combat system and dungeons, solid characters (definitely not the best cast though), some great micro-stories (chapter 1 and the Futaba arc), etc. But when it comes down to it, the game needed to lose about a third of its content and the overall narrative was quite weak. The pacing, the railroading, the last two or three dungeons... All that stuff seriously harmed the experience so much and was so tedious that I was completely disconnected from everything that happened at the end. And their weird attempt at trying to match the emotional highs of P3 and 4 (huge spoiler, don't click if you aren't done with P5:
) was so half-assed that they shouldn't have bothered. P3 and 4's endings stuck with me for weeks but this certainly won't.
Oh well, it's still a really good RPG at the end of the day, just not a game that affected me in any way or that I'll want to revisit.
My personal ranking:
P3 female MC > P4G > P3 male MC > P2 >>> P5 >>>>> P1
I don't have the time to write down all my thoughts on the game but overall: a resounding meh. Which sounds crazy of course for a game that I played that long =) The Persona series is so important to me that I had to know no matter what, I had to get to the end and I'm glad I did. There's a really good game hidden in there.
Almost all of the individual parts are better than in previous entries but it never came together in quite the right way for me. Exceptional art style and music, great combat system and dungeons, solid characters (definitely not the best cast though), some great micro-stories (chapter 1 and the Futaba arc), etc. But when it comes down to it, the game needed to lose about a third of its content and the overall narrative was quite weak. The pacing, the railroading, the last two or three dungeons... All that stuff seriously harmed the experience so much and was so tedious that I was completely disconnected from everything that happened at the end. And their weird attempt at trying to match the emotional highs of P3 and 4 (huge spoiler, don't click if you aren't done with P5:
Mona's "death"
Oh well, it's still a really good RPG at the end of the day, just not a game that affected me in any way or that I'll want to revisit.
My personal ranking:
P3 female MC > P4G > P3 male MC > P2 >>> P5 >>>>> P1
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
I thought the writing NieR:A kinda had this disconnect at times but it's mostly fine. NieR:A is definitely better in the the localization and translation department. Honestly Japanese games will always sound 'different' at points compared to Western games, though that depends on writing quality.
I'm just disappointed that Atlus didn't take the time to give the team in the US the same care as JP. Makes me mad.
Really? I knew all but one belonged to Morgana, the first one. I specifically remember the scenes where the lines were said too. They're all from the first arc.
Oh wait no, I remember where the first line happened, at [Persona 5 Palace 1 Spoilers]
The Kamoshida boss fight when he eats the 'legs' from the trophey. Morgana gave that as the hint to target it.
rayman1900
Member
The new song I play in Palaces after sending the calling card :
https://soundcloud.com/2mello/life-brings-storms-mobb-deep-vs-persona-5-mashup
https://soundcloud.com/2mello/life-brings-storms-mobb-deep-vs-persona-5-mashup
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
They don't count towards the trophy, though, if that's something you care about.
Only one at a time, though. She needs to work on her proficiency.
This was super disappointing to find out.
newdayrocks
Member
Man, that Fifth Palace (
) was just awful. Are upcoming palaces as bad as this one was?
Okumura's Spaceport
I didn't really have any problems with it personally, but it's widely regarded as the worst one.
That one is pretty widely agreed to be the worst of them.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Especially if you have her make an eternal lockpick
Ouch.
demosthenes
Member
Enemies redrawn but as you progress you typically get shortcuts. First palace also has a ton of saves.
Especially if you have her make an eternal lockpick
LOL I totally did. Having free time in the evening is way better than some old lockpick. Tbh I think you can make a 2nd one easy in
the last level of mementos before the final door.
They'll be looong as fuck, but hmm, no, not as bad.