Question to those who finished the game.
based on where I am, will I finish the game and see everything within 10 more hours of game time? I'm going away for a week monday, and I hoped to finish P5 by then. Is it doable?
{endgame spoilers)
I'm about to send the calling card for Shido in early December. I'm as far as I can get in Mementos before finishing Palace 7. I've heard that while the combat parts end in December, the game goes to March. That seems like a lot.
If P5 only had the same quality and quantity of social and bonding events that p4 had, I may put it as the best game I've played.
I remember when FF15 disappointed me I kept saying that persona 5 is here to make up for it but it disappointed me as well. It's just that p4g's social events made me feel close to the characters which Persona 5 didn't capture at all
I wound up feeling the opposite in a lot of ways. In 4 I didn't really feel close to the characters because of the bonding events. The social links helped me feel close to them (some more than others but that's how it goes) but the bonding events made me feel like I was watching a weak anime that was holding me back from the sweet game I was playing.
Having 5 more or less downplay and dismiss the events really helped me stay in the mood of the game. Because of how the plot was written I was able to feel closer to the characters both because of their links and from the story.
Persona 5 is the most complete and satisfying game Atlus has released in the Megaten franchise since Shin Megami Tensei III. It is a testament to Hashino's vision and determination that such a game pulled through all adversity and the management crisis Index suffered over the years. I'm glad the core modern Persona team is moving on to new ambitious projects, because after this I feel they have nothing to prove, and possibly much less left to say. This certainly feels like a culmination of over an decade of Atlus flavored games under the post-Okada creative teams. It embodies Persona. It embodies Megaten. It embodies the angry rebellious counter-culture tone in a modern Japan occult setting that fans have always loved.
Is Persona 5 a perfect game? Far from it. Does it have the best storyline, or the best gameplay, or the more interest themes in a modern Atlus game? Nope. Are the character designs and art direction the best Persona has ever been? Probably. Is the soundtrack a masterpiece? Maaaaaaybe after you buy a bunch of DLC to get more than one regular battle theme.
So why did the game resonate so strongly with me and why do I think it worked together so well? Because it is every bit what I want and expect out of a Persona game, infused with more inspiration from Shin Megami Tensei and Devil Summoner than before, and the team has put in conscious effort to elevate every aspect of the base systems which they introduced in Persona 3. It is impossible for me as a longtime fan not to recognize and appreciate the monumental effort put into making Persona 5 a game by fans for fans. Where it lacks finer quality, it makes up for in sheer satisfaction. While there have been many great RPGs from Atlus over the years since SMT3, I feel Persona 5 is the first sequel of this sort in forever to truly feel like a huge step up of an already good foundation without reinventing the wheel, and that really has to be acknowledged. It's something I didn't feel from Persona 4, Devil Survivor 2, Shin Megami Tensei 4, Raidou 2, or any of the Etrain Odyssey sequels. It has been forever since we've seen Atlus go all out on a console title with little compromise with regards to what they are capable of in production values and scale, and this is the result. Bravo.
I think a lot of people have probably covered the pros and cons of the game in "objective" ways and discussed to death what overall works and what fell short in the title. So since this is a personal take, I'll talk about the stuff I really loved in the game and the stuff I didn't like and felt they could have done better, in terms of how they affected me and my enjoyment while playing the game. There will be spoilers which I will mark but assume that anything blocked off as a spoiler is a spoiler for the entire game.
The first thing the struck my about the game is how relentlessly angry it feels. This is not a game made by people satisfied by the way things have been going. It is incredibly timely for today's society, even outside of Japan. I have no doubt much of this anger isn't just political, but informed by the personal struggles Atlus staff had to go through over the years. That tone really drives the entire game and I think it worked brilliantly. This is a game about young people struggling with acceptance, but in the face of that, they also find out how twisted, unfair, and broken the world really is. Things which should be left to adults who know better, a society that should be built on the understanding that those who have experience and responsible must work to create better environments for future generations. These things are all broken in the Persona 5 setting - much like how they are broken in the world today. It takes the rebellious nature of teenagers who have had enough, using occult powers representing noble criminals in fiction, to fight back and change the world by force. The concept is so ridiculous, so naive and simplistic, and feels like a huge protest fantasy made for angry young people today to let off steam. I feel the world needs more of this, because ultimately, behind all the fantasy, the message in the game is that every individual has to take the first step to make a stand, and that only people who make up the world can change the world. Nothing is set in stone and things which are bad "because they are" only stay that way because people think so. This game pulls no punches, and I love it for that.
In terms of the gameplay though things aren't entirely as rosy. It's still extremely satisfying, and doesn't drag the game down much for me, but I found myself more frequently disappointed by little things which could have made what is a great experience into total perfection instead. The biggest flaw in the gameplay is probably how easy it is. Not just as a Megaten game, but as a videogame in general, Persona 5 on Normal difficulty is a total cakewalk. This is a game which gives the players tons of options to augment their advantages - from the multitude of really useful Confidant skills to the increased party member passive and active abilities, the addition of demon negotiation on top of that simply stacks all the odds against the enemies in the game. There is usually a bell curve when it comes to Megaten difficulty, and the tension in the middle portion of the games make battles really exciting. In Persona 5 it is more like a pure downhill slope. The only thing preventing this from being a disappointment that has a huge impact is how fun battles still are even when feeling overpowered, owing a lot to the polished presentation.
Now the Confidant system itself. I'm kinda torn. I love what they did with it in terms of integrating it with the entire game. Never before in Persona have I felt that all the social gameplay ties directly to battles, furthering other aspects of social gameplay, and even directly into the story with regards to how the characters you meet fit in. These are no longer friends you make along the way who you might be able to date, these are characters who represent other sides of the main story theme, to reinforce the oppression and failure of the world, and why the Phantom Thieves must do what they do. Every non-party character Confidant is not just someone to hang out with, they are literally confidants, accomplices, supporters, and victims. In past Persona games the social aspects have always been somewhat disconnected, here they feel like so much more. They are the faces of the very people among the masses who you fight to reform. Each story tells a tale of societal failures and people who slipped through the cracks. They become the motivation to carry on at the very end. So with all that emotional weight behind it, I'm somewhat sad that instead of building on the hooks Persona 3 originally had, they carried on with the pandering self-satisfying design philosophy of Persona 4. Only you the main character can design which girls (and only girls) you have a relationship with. You can have relationships with multiple girls with little consequence. None of them will break up with you. Everything is a one way relationship to boaster the ego of the player. It definitely undermines the intent of the system for me, and I hope that when freed from the chains of Persona's popularity among the otaku crowd, this creative team can offer something more interesting in their next game with regards to social simulation systems. Without the possibility of failure or consequence, victory is somewhat hollow. But I'll still take a hollow victory with Makoto (aka Best Girl Forever) over anything with Chie (aka Worst Girl Ever).
I'll finish up with story and dungeon stuff but these are all spoilers from here on out.
This was probably the biggest surprise for me. After Persona 4 went in a happier direction with a carefree cast and a more relaxed setting, I thought for sure they would be doubling down on that further given how popular it was. Imagine to my surprise when Persona 5 turned out to be in every sense the successor of Persona 3 instead, with shades of Persona 2. Angry young people, an actual team formed to illegally fight injustice through threat of force, sexual harassment, suicide, criminal corruption, political injustice, police brutality, ooooooooooh boy. From the start the game hooked me and never let me go. Any game which lets you fight the future Prime Minister of Japan as he strips off his top to take you on with muscles of steel is a game worth RISING up for.
I didn't expect ANY of the stuff after Shido though, and that's when the story went from already being really good to the peak of all Persona. The Velvet Room "twist" was pure fanservice done right, and the Holy Grail is the touch of Megaten that Persona has sorely lacked for a while. I think out of all of Hashino's games, this one most clearly personifies his obsession with the fool's journey. And that's how it felt for me as a player. The game was one long journey, but in the end you attain the greatest prize of all - true happiness. Happiness that Atlus is back at the top of their game. Happiness that Japan isn't the wretched failure of game development that it seemed from the last half decade. Happiness that Persona once again has true anger and fire in it. Happiness that I could press a button and watch a giant demon lord Persona the size of a building strike down a mecha god by shooting him in the face. What a ride.
The last shoutout really has to go to the dungeons. It took real balls to not pick the easy route of having a big random dungeon and actually hand crafting 8 themed dungeons with wildly creative settings, proper puzzles, all dripping with metaphors. I didn't find any of them too long. I didn't find them frustrating or annoying. The only problem with the dungeons in Persona 5 in my opinion, is that they were too good. Suck it haters.
tl;dr - Persona 5 is Hashino erecting a statue of honor to the Megaten franchise and we should all bow down like the sheep we are and worship at the altar of Atlus. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Question to those who finished the game.
based on where I am, will I finish the game and see everything within 10 more hours of game time? I'm going away for a week monday, and I hoped to finish P5 by then. Is it doable?
{endgame spoilers)
I'm about to send the calling card for Shido in early December. I'm as far as I can get in Mementos before finishing Palace 7. I've heard that while the combat parts end in December, the game goes to March. That seems like a lot.
Question to those who finished the game.
based on where I am, will I finish the game and see everything within 10 more hours of game time? I'm going away for a week monday, and I hoped to finish P5 by then. Is it doable?
{endgame spoilers)
I'm about to send the calling card for Shido in early December. I'm as far as I can get in Mementos before finishing Palace 7. I've heard that while the combat parts end in December, the game goes to March. That seems like a lot.
while I felt it was a really well placed scene to reintroduce the fact Ryuji is the most athletic of the group, and I too genuinely felt sucker-punched by a potential death, the "ah, gotcha!" trope had already been played with Joker so it felt flat here, and I HATE how he gets shit on by the girls afterwards. I think if you were going for laughs, just having them drop any and all concern once Ryuji came back as if it didn't happen would be far more comedic.
disliked how they got angry at him. It was a perfect moment for him to actually get some appreciation, a hug, a handshake, anything. Even compliment on his running skills after everything that happened, throw a friend a bone.
disliked how they got angry at him. It was a perfect moment for him to actually get some appreciation, a hug, a handshake, anything. Even compliment on his running skills after everything that happened, throw a friend a bone.
disliked how they got angry at him. It was a perfect moment for him to actually get some appreciation, a hug, a handshake, anything. Even compliment on his running skills after everything that happened, throw a friend a bone.
My guts is still level 4. Everything else is maxed. Should I spend some time eating burgers at night to raise my guts? Any other way besides reading some books I have left?
Okay, I can finally fuse any Persona without worry about level. Is there any website that offers a printable compendium? Just like a basic list I can use for reference. There are plenty of sites that have all the Personas but none formatted in a way I can just check things off with.
If you have access to Shinjuku, go to the flower shop at night for the +3 kindness fertilizer. Otherwise, go to the underground mall in Shibuya for the +2 kindness nutrients.
Yes, that's essentially what I did. You'll still have a few other NG+ perks like having more money and some confidant abilities being available earlier, but these don't affect the game balance too much.
It's actually an annoying bit of self awareness. "Haha they don't want to be in leather and latex fetish costumes but they are, and they'll get objectified anyway! It's cool because subconsciously that's what rebellion looks like to them! So technically, they want it!"
Luckily the alt and DLC costumes are generally pretty cool
Beat the NG+ boss. I must admit that I'm warming to
the Twins
more than I thought.
Lavenza
is still cool but they are closer now than before. Also,
there is no Theo.
But that is not a big suprise since FeMC isn't canon.
It was a bit weird fight though.
NG+ Boss stuff:
Couldn't use Joker for like 4-6 turns in the end because Justine decided to dodge so much, at the worst point it was J at 90%-100% with C at <20% but atleast I could do something useful during that time because my Yoshi had Matarukaja and Debilate. Party was Ryuji, Ann and Makoto. Not that big off a suprise.
The big suprise was that despite everyone burning their Endure in the first few turns, I actually got them down on the first try. No, seriously. It was with lvl 99 party and Yoshi but still!
It's actually an annoying bit of self awareness. "Haha they don't want to be in leather and latex fetish costumes but they are, and they'll get objectified anyway! It's cool because subconsciously that's what rebellion looks like to them! So technically, they want it!"
Luckily the alt and DLC costumes are generally pretty cool
The game has a problem allowing the female thieves any extended sense of agency honestly. Makoto gets the closest,probably because she's an honorary MC, but Ann is a series of confusing and unnecessary contradictions, while Haru and Futaba are basically implied to only be "whole" or "saved" as long as Joker is around.
I like the outfits because of the design, but I would have enjoyed a little more introspection about what they actually mean and the girls coming to terms with them.
They're the best. I really wish her rank 10 perk (or NG+ item) introduced an SP Adhesive 4 or 5 to her stock. I would gladly buy one for every party member.
They're a bit less useful late game since spells are more expensive (plus I'm drowning in coffee and curry), but for early game they were a godsend. I waltzed right through palace 3 with them on and never looked back.
Does anyone in the Phantom Thieves like their own thief outfits? Ryuji made a whole deal about ragging on Joker's and not being a big fan of his own either early on, if I remember.
Does anyone in the Phantom Thieves like their own thief outfits? Ryuji made a whole deal about ragging on Joker's and not being a big fan of his own either early on, if I remember.
Does anyone in the Phantom Thieves like their own thief outfits? Ryuji made a whole deal about ragging on Joker's and not being a big fan of his own either early on, if I remember.
Yes, that's essentially what I did. You'll still have a few other NG+ perks like having more money and some confidant abilities being available earlier, but these don't affect the game balance too much.
By confidants being available earlier, you mean the stat walls essentially being nullified; Not that it carries over who you're dating/progress on Confidants, right?
By confidants being available earlier, you mean the stat walls essentially being nullified; Not that it carries over who you're dating/progress on Confidants, right?
Maxed out confidants in NG will grant you some or all of their abilities in NG+ immediately after getting them to level 1 again. Stat walls still exist, but are mostly irrelevant since your social stats carry over to NG+.
By confidants being available earlier, you mean the stat walls essentially being nullified; Not that it carries over who you're dating/progress on Confidants, right?
The former is also true, but the items you get from maxed out confidants on the last day unlock some of their abilities right away once you establish their links in NG+.
Maxed out confidants in NG will grant you some or all of their abilities in NG+ immediately after getting them to level 1 again. Stat walls still exist, but are mostly irrelevant since your social stats carry over to NG+.
The former is also true, but the items you get from maxed out confidants on the last day unlock some of their abilities right away once you establish their links in NG+.
The game has a problem allowing the female thieves any extended sense of agency honestly. Makoto gets the closest,probably because she's an honorary MC, but Ann is a series of confusing and unnecessary contradictions, while Haru and Futaba are basically implied to only be "whole" or "saved" as long as Joker is around.
I like the outfits because of the design, but I would have enjoyed a little more introspection about what they actually mean and the girls coming to terms with them.
I wouldn't go that far. Haru owes pretty much everything to the Phantom Thieves, and she constantly reiterates just how much being one gives her life meaning. It's nothing I would specifically attribute to Joker. The game is also pretty clear about what her Phantom Thief outfit represents, and why she loves it. Futaba is the opposite in that she's almost completely dependent on Joker, but it's a pretty deliberate decision, and her Confidant even has her work on becoming less dependent. This is why you shouldn't date her. Her outfit embraces her love for technology/information and she likes it as well. It's plain cool.
That said, I do think its disappointing how Ann never really comes to terms with being sexy (despite admiring sexy individuals). They mostly use use her costume for jokes.
Does anyone in the Phantom Thieves like their own thief outfits? Ryuji made a whole deal about ragging on Joker's and not being a big fan of his own either early on, if I remember.
