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Persona 5 |OT2| Someone must have been helping you go to bed early. Talk!
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
It's good if it's your 2nd or 3rd playthrough but for someone playing P3 the first time the menu based navigation is a lesser experience. I would have bought P3P on vita if it didn't have menu based navigation as I think with the improvements it has, it would have been the definitive version of the game by a long shot.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I'm sure the Japanese teenagers of the mid 00's want Vaan as the next Persona MC.
That simply depends on which part of Mara you're focusing on.
Why did this make me laugh
ShadowSoldier89
Member
did you finish that day yet though?
There's a significant portion of people who feel that
Naoto was experiencing gender dysphoria, and that P4 backed out of it.
That simply depends on which part of Mara you're focusing on.
I walked right into this one didn't I?Well, it is a tower sized penis
Autoignition
Member
A LOT of people were convinced for a long time that Naoto was a transman.
Nah, P3 was ridiculous with how thick it laid the edgy, grim atmosphere. I could only nod when I was reading others pointing this out. It feels like they tried way too hard to be dark and it makes it seem immature (and oftentimes unbearable). Maybe their intent was to wear you down with the atmosphere+Tartarus slog?
nOoblet16 said:
I don't know. I think it's heavily overused and is not an adequate replacement for casual scenes in which characters are simply hanging out together. It would've been much better if most of those were held at some casual spot like the park or elsewhere.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
No worries. Every week Altus get ~15 bucks from me. No regrets
Ah, actually I remember that being discussed now that you mention it.
But you do have those scenes where they hang out or plan in a group, the text chat is just addition on top of what was already there in previous games. It's not taking that away and replacing it with text chat.
There is text chat almost every single day, you didn't casually hang out with group every single day in previous games. Which is why it's an addition on top.
I dunno much about that but I think I know what you mean.
Haha, good point.
The fuck?
Was doing a random persona fusion between 2 level 10 personas to get another for a fusion when a random unskipable scene happens and well...this happened
Good ol Mara
Yeah, my husband came home and was like, "How was your day?" So, I told him how I fought a wheelchair riding dick-monster.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
we are in agreement on P3
However I like the text chat. If tahts all there was I would be disappointed, but the text chat is augmenting the other hangout scenes. Of course I could always go for more hangouts.
I had to explain that to my carpool while I was playing SMTIV:A, fortunately I could just show them said dick chariot
Suzushiiro
Banned
It seems like they decided that since they were inevitably going to make spinoffs/adaptations where giving him a voice/personality would be unavoidable they may as well not be as strict about making him a blank slate for the player to self-insert into in the main game. Hence him actually having a bit of a personality and having more than the bare-minimum level of voiced lines in some cutscenes, as well as the game's narration being in first-person rather than second-person, and so on. You get a pretty good sense of what his character will be like in Persona 5 Arena and Persona 5 The Animation.
Yeah it was snappier and faster (which is more suitable for a handheld). Also, I think P3P was the first game where there was quick travel? Cant remember lol.
Stuff like shooting yourself in the head, random blood in Tartarus and Strega was definitely edge incarnate, but you spend a considerable amount of time just living a normal life. Wake up, go to school, hang out with friends, go home and study or hit the mall and do whatever you want. It's a pretty natural experience, and it was like the ultimate integration of gameplay and theming.
MadLaughter
Member
I'm around 9/7 or 9/8 and just recently got all stats to 4. I've maxed the Arcanas
.
What stats/confidants should I most focus on?
Temperance, Chariot, Lovers, Death
What stats/confidants should I most focus on?
Son Of Sparda
Member
I've talked about this before, but Joker as a leader is a joke. This is so apparent in many scenes and interactions of the game, where Joker is completely silent and whenever you get a dialogue option, it's either you comment about some funny situation or all of your choices are ignored and the party do as they want.
I know the same could be said about Persona 4, but at least that game was aware of that fact and tried to hide it better. Yet in Persona 5 you are constantly called leader, while you don't do anything resembling what a leader should do. This becomes painfully apparent during a certain scene in mid-early September where
Makoto negotiates with Haru in order to convince her to join the group, while you the so called "leader" don't get a single dialogue option and just stand there and see Makoto fail.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
if you plan on doing NG+ max run, I'd try and get Moon and Fortune maxed during your first playthrough.
Huh, I admit I never saw it from that angle. I guess it's a very teenager like game about teenagers then? That's interesting, I'll try to see it from that angle when replaying it soon.
That's what bothers me, actually. I think the overall story is more interesting than 4's for sure, but the pacing was goddawful and it felt like the game tried way too hard to seem more dark and dramatic than it actually was.
I mean, compare the opening, promotional art and general vibe of both 3 and 4. 3 always tries to look dark and deep when it's just generally fairly cheery anime stuff with a J Pop soundtrack that yes, has many depressing aspects to it, but it's still fairly light-hearted. P4 focuses more on style and looking cool, and that's what the game is in the end! It's Jojo part 4 with lots of anime and a very stylized look, so it's way more honest with itself, which is why I enjoy it more in the end, it feels genuine and "free" compared to 3.
Aaronrules380
Member
Sun has some great abilities and always ranks up so it's super quick. Star's level 10 benefits are amazing too. Moons extra xp can be pretty useful. Fortune has some great benefits, but it's level 10 benefit is pretty worthless. Tower is pretty useful at times and raises kindness which can be useful since Futaba's SL requires 4 kindness to start and Sojiro's requires max kindness after a certain point, though I can't remember if you'll have met Tower link yet
Many people thought Naoto was transgender due to the sex change surgery her Shadow was trying to do. Her romantic S.Link (which was horribly written anyway, but not for that reason) then has her wearing a female school uniform, which some people interpreted as Atlus not wanting to commit on having a transgender character. Naoto's entire arc was instead meant as commentary on Japanese gender politics and how stupidly hard it is for a woman to be accepted in a male-dominated world, which is actually absolutely clear from the game itself.
I mean, Naoto wasn't comfortable being a woman, and wanted surgery to become a man. They just pulled the typical Japan response to trans characters of saying "You're okay as a woman" and the trans character goes "Oh, okay"
Have you finished the game ?
I'll just say that see it through the end and you'll see why he is the leader. Anything more I say will be a spoiler but I will say that hindsight changes perception. There was a guy here who said the same things you are saying right now, I asked him to finish the game and then when he did he told me I was right about it as it did change his opinion.
The team in Persona 5 has a leader but they can function without him, unlike P4 where they can't even breathe without the leader (so apparent when everyone would say yea please command me in fights, cause I donno shit)
chrominance
Member
I'm also weirdly curious about the female MC path in P3P now. It's been long enough since I played P3P the first time, too.
Yeah i know, i felt like that too since i played p4 before p3p, still bummed that FeMC didn't make it through golden, it'd be way better than having Marie in the game
, a friend said to me once that most visual novels for girls have bishounens and completely unrealistic romantic options and that p3 was a way better alternative for them, i really enjoyed my tine there and i'm really sad atlus didn't think a female route is worth their time and resources, i'd totally buy a FeMC dlc for p5 though...p3p made me fell like they DO care a lot when they want toI still cringe a bit when people talk about Kanji and Naoto, most of the time their conclusion goes totally against the whole point of their characters :|
klabautermann
Member
I think people don't think about how P3 was Hashino's first crack at a franchise that had been dead for half a decade at that point. Also coming of the heels of director roles with SMTIII: Nocturne and DDS. I think he was trying to stay true to a lot of the themes of not only past SMT games he worked on, but the Persona games that Satomi Tadashi had worked on. I think P3 is a great game, but I feel Persona 4 has a stronger identity because it's his second attempt at the series and he probably felt more free to do what he wanted than live up to what had already been established by someone else.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Even in NieR Automata I found some of the writing and characterization pretty damn cheesy. Better than P5's story beats though and more focused over the individual characters too.
Especially compared to Western titles such as TLoU where characterization and emotion come across so well, or if you want old school, Planescape: Torment is so good.
But to me, it's each culture's style and I love both. NieR and Persona just work for me, even with the exaggerated drama and verbose writing. The background lore is particularly impressive in NieR!
(P4 spoilers)
Naoto didn't want surgery to become a man any more than Rise wanted to be a stripper, or Yukiko wanted to be a princess - these are all metaphors for their actual problems. Naoto "wanted to be a man" only because she didn't think she'd be taken seriously as a woman, Rise wanted to "strip" because she wanted people to see who she really was rather than the "Risette" the public knew, Yukiko wanted to be a "princess" because she wanted a "Prince Charming" to take her away from her life at the inn, etc.
Son Of Sparda
Member
As I said, that may be true but the game was smarter about it. When you call someone leader, you expect him to actually lead not to be a comedy relief character.
I'm powering through as we speak. I just finished the 5th palace and I'm waiting for the next thing to happen which is gonna be a while and I don't know if I should just say "screw it" and click through the days to get there or should I force myself to do more S-links and stat building stuff.
About to finish palace 6, i have a question about a certain item (spoiler palace 6)
i used that item that restores all the hp/sp (Soma) before entering battle royale, but i realized it was useless as i basically breezed through it with physical attacks and Rangda, i only had to use mazionga once but i had the sp i needed even without using that item so i basically wasted it. Can i find it again in the casino or later in the story? I saved again after battle royale so i can't reload to the point before i used it
This is very true. P3 feels like it tries hard to be dark to stick to tradition rather than because it wants to be. P4 feels more genuine for the same reason.
It's depressing how he goes from Nocturne and DDS to having a date with a submissive robot girl where she lets you touch her robot clit tho, sigh.
klabautermann
Member
Ultimately you call the shots as far as when exploring palaces, mementos, or sending calling cards is. He delegates tasks which can also be seen as a form of leading. I actually prefer this approach because I hated in P4 when characters would be confused about the most obvious things until you were given a dialogue option to tell them they were all wrong.
Honestly, I think P5 screws up even harder. I've noticed the same thing as Son of Sparda, the game really wants to make you think Joker is this awesome leader, but it's Makoto that leads the party. You could see the glimmers of this 4 for sure, but it's impossible to ignore here.
I actually had some friends point that out to me while they were visiting (I did not succeed in convincing them to buy P5). Personally, I wouldn't have minded P5 with Makoto as the main character. At the very least the leader status would be 100% genuine.
As I said before in this very page. Joker is very much a leader and you'll all see why. So reserve your judgement until you do. And it's isn't something the game pulls out of nowhere either. Makoto is the strategist but that alone doesn't make someone a leader.
snow in jamaica
Member
It's spelling out something you could easily infer yourself, and it happens in just about every dungeon. The characters can get angry without the winking and nudging.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Death confidant spoilers lol
told the doctor I love her I assume I'm locked out of doing that with the rest now right.
That falls flat because Naoto's shadow wasn't a man. It was a doctor. The whole point of shadows was that the things they were saying were actually a part of themselves, and they had to accept that.
Here's a literal quote from Naoto after you beat her shadow :
"I finally think I can accept myself. That Im a woman That I havent yet become the detective I wanted to be I I am a woman and a detective"
But no, you guys are right. Probably no gender dysphoria there!
Naoto is uncomfortable with being a woman prior to her confrontation with her Shadow, but it's not because she's transgender.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Story wise, those two are put to vote and have to be unanimous. You won't hear anyone disagree with you, but you are not the only saying that you should go to Metaverse.
I don't disagree with you on party handling the smaller stuff, but the thing is that they never ask for Joker's opinion and when they do they just brush-off his comment if they don't agree with him. I mean, what I mentioned about that mid-September stuff is definitely something that a leader should be involved with, yet you are completely ignored.
For the past 90 hours that I've played the game, Joker has mostly been an unimportant side character. He had like 10 minutes of spotlight where party said that they cared about him and then he went back to being unimportant.
I disagree with this reading of Hashino. I think Hashino knows exactly what he wants to make, and Persona 4 isn't really it. When Hashino has full freedom without the expectations of a franchise, what does he direct? Maken X and Catherine. Those are far more consistent with SMT3, DDS, P3, and P5 in tone. P4 is the one that sticks out. It feels to me like P4 is the populist game that Atlus made to appeal to a wider audience by being more pleasant, less oppressive, more colorful, and just friendlier. Also much more open to merchandising and spin offs because everyone in the game is so chill.
I'll definitely be looking forward to that then, because the game has done a piss poor job of making him out to be a leader. The writing isn't really supporting the whole Makoto=Strategist setup, though.
So, let me get this straight. She doesn't accept she's a woman. She wants to be a man. She wants surgery to be a man. She wants to only wear guy clothes. What does it take for a character to be seen as trans beyond these? Do they have to literally use the word transgender?
Suzushiiro
Banned
I mean, if Makoto was the main character and leader she'd also be the silent protagonist and have the exact same problems you're complaining about with Joker. The fundamental issue is that it's hard for a character who has only slightly more than the bare minimum number of necessary lines of dialogue (voiced and otherwise) to be portrayed as the leader of the group. They just needed to give Joker more opportunities to actually talk (and maybe even voice the lines you choose for him like in Bioware games.)
chrominance
Member
I do think it's a different case because
it's not like Rise dressed up as a stripper or Yukiko pretended to be a princess in real life. For the first few months after Naoto's introduction everyone, including the player, is supposed to know her as a guy, and she identifies herself as such. There is an obvious trans implication there that then gets set aside for the more traditional narrative about gender roles. While I'm a little disappointed in that personally, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with what Atlus decided to do with Naoto. But I don't think people "misinterpreted" what was going on as much as they wanted to see Atlus take the riskier, more progressive route in crafting that character. And also that having Naoto NOT be trans maybe involves more contortions than just having her be trans.
I realized a while back that not only am I fine with the MC not being voiced, in some ways I actually prefer it. Part of it is that most of the time, the MC's comments are fundamentally similar and differ only in tone, so it's not really that much of a choice; part of it is then I'd have to sit through the voiced response as well, whereas this feels faster; part of it is that there might be the temptation to make the MC's lines longer to fit the conversational flow more naturally, which might then lead to the thing people complain about in Bioware games and Fallout 4 where you see a conversation prompt, misinterpret it, and then hear a line that doesn't reflect what you thought you chose.