Oh yeah, I didn't even connect the Tarot stuff, that's almost directly relateable to the Persona 3 shadow bosses. I love the idea of your ego being tied to your prowess; as much as I like Fist of North Star-esque fights, it's a great alternative to that.
TBH, I need to read parts 5 and 6 still. The bad translation of 5 stopped me so I jumped into 7 since I knew it was standalone. Now I'm just starting 6, good so far.
The whole ego being tied to your prowess thing is kind of why I have mixed feelings on switchable Personas. From a gameplay perspective, it's probably more fun to be able to customize your Persona layout for your whole party, but I like the extra symbolism and impact that's added when party members are stuck with a single Persona that represents their self somehow. I'm also not a big fan of the whole "the protagonist is super special guys" thing though, but you kinda have to do that if you have unswitchable Personas for party members... Might be cool if they adapted the Compatibility mechanic from P2 and made it so that each party member could only use Personas that they had a certain affinity for. Might work as a middleground, and it'd help distinguish characters.
You've read Parts 1-4, right? Out of all of the parts, 6 probably stands the worst on its own. Part 5 is basically a side story though, I'm waiting on the retranslation project.
The whole ego being tied to your prowess thing is kind of why I have mixed feelings on switchable Personas. From a gameplay perspective, it's probably more fun to be able to customize your Persona layout for your whole party, but I like the extra symbolism and impact that's added when party members are stuck with a single Persona that represents their self somehow. I'm also not a big fan of the whole "the protagonist is super special guys" thing though, but you kinda have to do that if you have unswitchable Personas for party members... Might be cool if they adapted the Compatibility mechanic from P2 and made it so that each party member could only use Personas that they had a certain affinity for. Might work as a middleground, and it'd help distinguish characters.
You've read Parts 1-4, right? Out of all of the parts, 6 probably stands the worst on its own. Part 5 is basically a side story though, I'm waiting on the retranslation project.
I've had the exact same thoughts. I do at least appreciate the original awakening Persona being somewhat the protagonist's personal one, and getting a super form later on. From the purely gameplay perspective switching adds a lot of depth though. The Velvet room attendant fights revolve around using switching.
In that way they could do a great job of balancing the fun of switching and the plot-weight of having your personal persona by making it arcana based, and that makes the Protagonist a bit less stereotypically "special".
...so I guess I totally agree with you on all of that.
Considering the new generation is supposed to bring big changes, I'll obviously be interested in what happens.
Oh yeah, totally. Started from 1 and wanted to go through by chronological release, but 5's scanlation hurt a bit too bad and I'm afraid it'll color my impression of it. I hope it doesn't change 6 to not read 5.
I've had the exact same thoughts. I do at least appreciate the original awakening Persona being somewhat the protagonist's personal one, and getting a super form later on. From the purely gameplay perspective switching adds a lot of depth though. The Velvet room attendant fights revolve around using switching.
In that way they could do a great job of balancing the fun of switching and the plot-weight of having your personal persona by making it arcana based, and that makes the Protagonist a bit less stereotypically "special".
...so I guess I totally agree with you on all of that.
Considering the new generation is supposed to bring big changes, I'll obviously be interested in what happens.
Oh yeah, totally. Started from 1 and wanted to go through by chronological release, but 5's scanlation hurt a bit too bad and I'm afraid it'll color my impression of it. I hope it doesn't change 6 to not read 5.
Yeah. And you could still use capturing and fusion, they'd just only be limited to use by their Arcana or Affinity-compatible party members or whatever. All things considered I'd definitely like to see some sort of shake-up to the fundamental Persona mechanics for P5.
While we're talking about Persona speculation: Any theories on what the next Velvet Room will be like? In 1 & 2 it's just a room, but 3 & 4 both have a theme of motion that I'd assume would be preserved. Not sure what else it could be though. A ship? "Welcoooome to the Velveeeet Room... Matey". Also Igor should get his bone phone back.
Yeah, that's the same reason I stopped on 5. The only mention of 5 in 6 is that Giorno might be in the area, but it's never brought up again. It seems like Araki was going to tie Part 5 into 6 but decided not to for some reason.
Make the protag the only switching persona user actually made sense for the point he being the commander, and also a lot more cooler than just he wearing the uber special "persona".. Also I afraid for all kind of reverting because the gameplay of P3-P4 are so good compared to P1-P2
Unless the new game have mechanic that make the idea sound cool, I don't think they need to change what not broken...
Yeah. And you could still use capturing and fusion, they'd just only be limited to use by their Arcana or Affinity-compatible party members or whatever. All things considered I'd definitely like to see some sort of shake-up to the fundamental Persona mechanics for P5.
While we're talking about Persona speculation: Any theories on what the next Velvet Room will be like? In 1 & 2 it's just a room, but 3 & 4 both have a theme of motion that I'd assume would be preserved. Not sure what else it could be though. A ship? "Welcoooome to the Velveeeet Room... Matey". Also Igor should get his bone phone back.
Yeah, that's the same reason I stopped on 5. The only mention of 5 in 6 is that Giorno might be in the area, but it's never brought up again. It seems like Araki was going to tie Part 5 into 6 but decided not to for some reason.
Could definitely work, though storing them would be odd unless characters a each just switching from the same "box" of them, and it would be more complex than P3/4 is to learn. I dunno if a steeper learning curve is an issues for newcomers. I agree totally that changes would be cool.
Hah, well if it follows the same pattern there's not just a theme of general motion, but moving forward/up. While part of me would like a motorcycle, time machine, or something similarly goofy, I think it could be cool if it's a descent- like digging deeper - to complement up/forward, not sure how thematically appropriate that would be though. (I appreciate that each Velvet room ties in to motifs of both games, the fog surrounding the Limo and the climb up Tartarus with the elevator.)
Ooh. Maybe an first-class airplane.
Appreciate the reassurance. I didn't see anything about read 3 before 7 either, and I definitely would have missed out a lot on the ending without it. Though I understand why it wasn't mentioned.
Make the protag the only switching persona user actually made sense for the point he being the commander, and also a lot more cooler than just he wearing the uber special "persona".. Also I afraid for all kind of reverting because the gameplay of P3-P4 are so good compared to P1-P2
Unless the new game have mechanic that make the idea sound cool, I don't think they need to change what not broken...
Hah, I definitely won't argue in favor of P2's general gameplay, believe me. I'm more thinking from a conceptual standpoint because I don't really like "chosen one" deals. Plus, as I mentioned before, I like the conceptual idea of having a Persona that fits in with a character's personality, but I like being able to have your entire party switch Personas from a gameplay perspective. I'm just brainstorming on how that could be reconciled.
Could definitely work, though storing them would be odd unless characters a each just switching from the same "box" of them, and it would be more complex than P3/4 is to learn. I dunno if a steeper learning curve is an issues for newcomers. I agree totally that changes would be cool.
Hah, well if it follows the same pattern there's not just a theme of general motion, but moving forward/up. While part of me would like a motorcycle, time machine, or something similarly goofy, I think it could be cool if it's a descent- like digging deeper - to complement up/forward, not sure how thematically appropriate that would be though. (I appreciate that each Velvet room ties in to motifs of both games, the fog surrounding the Limo and the climb up Tartarus with the elevator.)
Ooh. Maybe an first-class airplane.
Appreciate the reassurance. I didn't see anything about read 3 before 7 either, and I definitely would have missed out a lot on the ending without it. Though I understand why it wasn't mentioned.
Well, the way I'm thinking is basically that each character would have a certain amount of Personas they'd be familiar with. Maybe two Arcanas per person or something, it'd have to depend on the amount of party members. Each party member can only use Personas from their affinity pool, but they can switch between those at will like anyone in P1-P2 and the protag in P3-P4. It would be somewhat more complex, but basically it'd be a matter of "I like these characters or these specialties, so I'll focus on collecting and fusing Personas with these Arcana". It could also tie a bit into another thought I had a while ago, which was making Social Links harder to complete but making them much more rewarding. In this system you wouldn't necessarily be working with every Arcana, so having Slinks be harder but better might fit. This stuff is fun to be brainstorm about anyway, I'm curious to see if they do end up changing this sort of thing for P5.
I could actually see the airplane, that'd be cool. Good point about it fitting the motifs of the story, though.
With Jojo Part 7, I feel like it makes a really good intro to the series, but then you're probably going to go back and read all of Jojo and then read 7 again and appreciate it even more.
Well, the way I'm thinking is basically that each character would have a certain amount of Personas they'd be familiar with. Maybe two Arcanas per person or something, it'd have to depend on the amount of party members. Each party member can only use Personas from their affinity pool, but they can switch between those at will like anyone in P1-P2 and the protag in P3-P4. It would be somewhat more complex, but basically it'd be a matter of "I like these characters or these specialties, so I'll focus on collecting and fusing Personas with these Arcana". It could also tie a bit into another thought I had a while ago, which was making Social Links harder to complete but making them much more rewarding. In this system you wouldn't necessarily be working with every Arcana, so having Slinks be harder but better might fit. This stuff is fun to be brainstorm about anyway, I'm curious to see if they do end up changing this sort of thing for P5.
I could actually see the airplane, that'd be cool. Good point about it fitting the motifs of the story, though.
With Jojo Part 7, I feel like it makes a really good intro to the series, but then you're probably going to go back and read all of Jojo and then read 7 again and appreciate it even more.
What I meant by storage is how the protagonist's level is tied to the number of Persona he can store up. I suppose if they just increased the pool it could help though. Would be way more complex and deep for people with a bit of patience and thought, but it could put off people who have a hard time keeping up with fusing for just for one character, let alone mainline SMT-esque party skill management where you have the ability to fuck yourself. Even with SMTIV's tons of recommendations and such people all over GameFAQs are fusing themselves into corners- which would be worse in Persona, where "recruitment" is harder. They can still pull it off, they just have to be careful with giving the player so much power over the party.
On harder Social Links I wholeheartedly agree. Make party member links the same perhaps, due to their usefulness, but have the more side links be harder to get ranks in, possibly with less filler "you may become better friends next time". That'd add to my anxiety of answering correctly, but it'd be a good evolution of the system.
I actually really disliked the first 3 volumes or so, with Johnny being a mild dick and such, but it got so drastically better I was beyond impressed. To where the "final" confrontation is easily of one of my favorites. (And so far the arc that's improved the most in my eyes in retrospect is 1. The originally painful start of Dio and Johnathan having their childhood became more awesome upon re-reading and watching some of the anime.)
What I meant by storage is how the protagonist's level is tied to the number of Persona he can store up. I suppose if they just increased the pool it could help though. Would be way more complex and deep for people with a bit of patience and thought, but it could put off people who have a hard time keeping up with fusing for just for one character, let alone mainline SMT-esque party skill management where you have the ability to fuck yourself. Even with SMTIV's tons of recommendations and such people all over GameFAQs are fusing themselves into corners- which would be worse in Persona, where "recruitment" is harder. They can still pull it off, they just have to be careful with giving the player so much power over the party.
On harder Social Links I wholeheartedly agree. Make party member links the same perhaps, due to their usefulness, but have the more side links be harder to get ranks in, possibly with less filler "you may become better friends next time". That'd add to my anxiety of answering correctly, but it'd be a good evolution of the system.
I actually really disliked the first 3 volumes or so, with Johnny being a mild dick and such, but it got so drastically better I was beyond impressed. To where the "final" confrontation is easily of one of my favorites. (And so far the arc that's improved the most in my eyes in retrospect is 1. The originally painful start of Dio and Johnathan having their childhood became more awesome upon re-reading and watching some of the anime.)
Oooh, I see what you mean now, I hadn't really thought of that. There are a couple of ways I could see it being done: Either a party-wide pool ala Persona 2. With this you have to put some strategy into how many Personas of each Arcana you have, since it's a party-wide pool. You could also just have every party member have the equivalent of P3 & 4 protag's pool that's Arcana-specific and increases as they level. You're right though, it does increase the complexity, especially given Persona is kind of the MegaTen ambassador series.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I envisioned it as far as SLinks go. Relatedly: I'd like to see relationships treated a bit differently. In all these games you build up to the relationship and then confession dating bam it's over. How about SLinks where you start dating halfway through instead? Then you have time to actually develop your romantic relationship more than just "I will love you forever because you are the protagonist!".
Yeah, Steel Ball Run definitely gets off to a pretty slow start. It's worth it though, Johnny's definitely the best developed Jojo in the series, even if Jolyne is my personal favorite. I really liked how many of the Stands just gave abilities instead of having physical forms, because it gave a kind of wild west showdown feel to the battles. The final battle was definitely great and Gyro's death was just ugh. Imo, the main weakness of Part 1 is just that Johnathan is a pretty boring character. He's just sort of generically noble without much going on.
Oooh, I see what you mean now, I hadn't really thought of that. There are a couple of ways I could see it being done: Either a party-wide pool ala Persona 2. With this you have to put some strategy into how many Personas of each Arcana you have, since it's a party-wide pool. You could also just have every party member have the equivalent of P3 & 4 protag's pool that's Arcana-specific and increases as they level. You're right though, it does increase the complexity, especially given Persona is kind of the MegaTen ambassador series.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I envisioned it as far as SLinks go. Relatedly: I'd like to see relationships treated a bit differently. In all these games you build up to the relationship and then confession dating bam it's over. How about SLinks where you start dating halfway through instead? Then you have time to actually develop your romantic relationship more than just "I will love you forever because you are the protagonist!".
Yeah, Steel Ball Run definitely gets off to a pretty slow start. It's worth it though, Johnny's definitely the best developed Jojo in the series, even if Jolyne is my personal favorite. I really liked how many of the Stands just gave abilities instead of having physical forms, because it gave a kind of wild west showdown feel to the battles. The final battle was definitely great and Gyro's death was just ugh. Imo, the main weakness of Part 1 is just that Johnathan is a pretty boring character. He's just sort of generically noble without much going on.
Yup. I think that managing each character's own personal pool would be a bit much, so the P2 party pool would be the more likely solution then- maybe harder difficulties could even limit your pool farther...
And S.Link overhauls/refinement would definitely be great. I'd almost say more so than gameplay changes. Variable lengths of ranks and difficulty would be amazing. Adding in more dialogue choices is always great. Having believable great writing remains crucial. A good S.Link can improve the moment to moment game experience a ton.
Fuck you Nozomi!
Yeah totally worth it. Johnny being so flawed is why I like him as a protagonist, especially since the "more of a good guy" Gyro dies. Oh and you must've loved the Mandom fight then.
You and Araki agree on Part 1's weakness then . I more mean that it went from a 6/10 to like an 8/10, to quantify it. All in all though: JoJo's is fucking radical like, all the time.
Yup. I think that managing each character's own personal pool would be a bit much, so the P2 party pool would be the more likely solution then- maybe harder difficulties could even limit your pool farther...
And S.Link overhauls/refinement would definitely be great. I'd almost say more so than gameplay changes. Variable lengths of ranks and difficulty would be amazing. Adding in more dialogue choices is always great. Having believable great writing remains crucial. A good S.Link can improve the moment to moment game experience a ton.
Fuck you Nozomi!
Yeah totally worth it. Johnny being so flawed is why I like him as a protagonist, especially since the "more of a good guy" Gyro dies. Oh and you must've loved the Mandom fight then.
You and Araki agree on Part 1's weakness then . I more mean that it went from a 6/10 to like an 8/10, to quantify it. All in all though: JoJo's is fucking radical like, all the time.
I like the concept of a party pool, but even that is probably a little too micromanagey for modern Persona. I think what I've taken away from this is that I should really get around to playing the Mainline MegaTen games. Wish I had a 3DS. :x
As other have pointed out a few times, it'd also be really great if SLinks could bleed into the main game more. In P4 they're probably overall better than P3, but it was nice how in P3 it felt like they didn't exist in as much of a bubble. S.Links as they are are a good idea that really set the Persona series apart from other JRPGs, but they're also flawed in a lot of ways that I'd love to see worked on. At least we're not forced to romance everyone anymore. That's a nice mechanic, because I hate how in most games if you become too friendly with a female character you automatically enter into a relationship with them because apparently having female friends is impossible if you're a guy.
Other Persona story thoughts: I'd actually kind of like it if the story was fairly small-scale. One of the things I like about P4 is that for most of the game it's a fairly mundane threat. A string of murders in a small town. It's bad, but it's not like an immediate world-destructing threat.
Well I mean it is but you don't know that till the end.
I like that, and I think it also fits in well with the character focus of the series. But I'm sure P5 will have its own feel, and I'm sure it'll be cool for it. Not like I want a P4 clone or anything, it's more just that P4 does a lot of things that are really refreshing coming from other RPGs.
Which brings up ANOTHER thing I really like about P4. In most RPGs all of your party members have these huge gaping secrets. They killed their wife or their town burned down or whatever. Even P3 pretty much follows this trend, with a lot of characters with fairly extraordinary backgrounds. I like that P4 doesn't really do this. For the most part all of the characters' angst and background are basically normal teen stuff. Insecurity, jealousy, gender roles, identity, etc. It's really refreshing, and makes the cast much more endearing and relatable.
Yeah, the Mandom fight was the exact fight I was thinking of. Plus it's Ringo Starr as a time-manipulating cowboy! But yeah, Jojo's is a great series, and it's maintained a remarkable degree of quality while evolving and being different with each arc. Btw, I just happened to find the Jojo OT today when I was browsing the forum if you want to continue this discussion there: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517076&page=26
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Other Persona story thoughts: I'd actually kind of like it if the story was fairly small-scale. One of the things I like about P4 is that for most of the game it's a fairly mundane threat. A string of murders in a small town. It's bad, but it's not like an immediate world-destructing threat.
Well I mean it is but you don't know that till the end.
I like that, and I think it also fits in well with the character focus of the series. But I'm sure P5 will have its own feel, and I'm sure it'll be cool for it. Not like I want a P4 clone or anything, it's more just that P4 does a lot of things that are really refreshing coming from other RPGs.
I thought I'm the only one, whenever P3 vs P4 talk occurred.. there's always talk about how P3 story is more grand and stuff.. but I really prefer the smaller scope in P4, its just feel more tight and engaging than all the doom tower conspiracy and such.. Now if they can make plot with P4's scale of scope and with better mood balance (I can agree to people that saying its a bit too happy) its could be perfect.
I like the concept of a party pool, but even that is probably a little too micromanagey for modern Persona. I think what I've taken away from this is that I should really get around to playing the Mainline MegaTen games. Wish I had a 3DS. :x
As other have pointed out a few times, it'd also be really great if SLinks could bleed into the main game more. In P4 they're probably overall better than P3, but it was nice how in P3 it felt like they didn't exist in as much of a bubble. S.Links as they are are a good idea that really set the Persona series apart from other JRPGs, but they're also flawed in a lot of ways that I'd love to see worked on. At least we're not forced to romance everyone anymore. That's a nice mechanic, because I hate how in most games if you become too friendly with a female character you automatically enter into a relationship with them because apparently having female friends is impossible if you're a guy.
Other Persona story thoughts: I'd actually kind of like it if the story was fairly small-scale. One of the things I like about P4 is that for most of the game it's a fairly mundane threat. A string of murders in a small town. It's bad, but it's not like an immediate world-destructing threat.
Well I mean it is but you don't know that till the end.
I like that, and I think it also fits in well with the character focus of the series. But I'm sure P5 will have its own feel, and I'm sure it'll be cool for it. Not like I want a P4 clone or anything, it's more just that P4 does a lot of things that are really refreshing coming from other RPGs.
Which brings up ANOTHER thing I really like about P4. In most RPGs all of your party members have these huge gaping secrets. They killed their wife or their town burned down or whatever. Even P3 pretty much follows this trend, with a lot of characters with fairly extraordinary backgrounds. I like that P4 doesn't really do this. For the most part all of the characters' angst and background are basically normal teen stuff. Insecurity, jealousy, gender roles, identity, etc. It's really refreshing, and makes the cast much more endearing and relatable.
Yeah, the Mandom fight was the exact fight I was thinking of. Plus it's Ringo Starr as a time-manipulating cowboy! But yeah, Jojo's is a great series, and it's maintained a remarkable degree of quality while evolving and being different with each arc. Btw, I just happened to find the Jojo OT today when I was browsing the forum if you want to continue this discussion there: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517076&page=26
For playing mainline: If you've got a PS2 snag Nocturne (SMT III). I've yet to beat it since I'm at the "wow this got so fucking hard" ending 10% or so, but it was totally worth playing.
On the whole Persona does a lot right with social links and helps diversify the game a lot. The aesthetic and focus is extremely modernized and fresh, so it's a blast to experience. The writing is so core to the game it's a miracle it kept its quality up and worked so well, but it really does. It would've been easy to make Persona 5 with a slight iteration of Persona 4's mechanics, but I have a lot of faith in them to shake things up. ATLUS is a really cool company to be a fan of when it comes to managing stuff like that.
More specifically, I loved when the 4 was small-scale too.
It's one of my favorite parts of JoJo's Part 4 too. Oh man, how much is Kira like Adachi? 0.0
But I like a story where things only matter within the story itself, it's like a slap to the face of Final Fantasy stories. Not to say stories like Chrono Trigger with the world ending are bad, it's just that pulling off a small-scale story is harder and more appreciable.
In any case, I'm super hyped for the series. I'm still sharing Persona 4 with people I know, and eagerly awaiting whatever p-ch.jp is.
Mandom was one of the "Oh shit!" fights, easily. Part 3 is pretty much just those, but Mandom was easily one of the best imo. JoJo is pretty damn hype. It's been a blast to experience it, and I'm a pretty solid fan, I think. And thanks for that link! I was wondering if JoJoGAF existed/was active. I don't wanna destroy this thread with these ending spoiler tags.
I thought I'm the only one, whenever P3 vs P4 talk occurred.. there's always talk about how P3 story is more grand and stuff.. but I really prefer the smaller scope in P4, its just feel more tight and engaging than all the doom tower conspiracy and such. Now if they can make plot with P4's scale of scope and with better mood balance (I can agree to people that saying its a bit too happy) its could be perfect.
For playing mainline: If you've got a PS2 snag Nocturne (SMT III). I've yet to beat it since I'm at the "wow this got so fucking hard" ending 10% or so, but it was totally worth playing.
On the whole Persona does a lot right with social links and helps diversify the game a lot. The aesthetic and focus is extremely modernized and fresh, so it's a blast to experience. The writing is so core to the game it's a miracle it kept its quality up and worked so well, but it really does. It would've been easy to make Persona 5 with a slight iteration of Persona 4's mechanics, but I have a lot of faith in them to shake things up. ATLUS is a really cool company to be a fan of when it comes to managing stuff like that.
More specifically, I loved when the 4 was small-scale too.
It's one of my favorite parts of JoJo's Part 4 too. Oh man, how much is Kira like Adachi? 0.0
But I like a story where things only matter within the story itself, it's like a slap to the face of Final Fantasy stories. Not to say stories like Chrono Trigger with the world ending are bad, it's just that pulling off a small-scale story is harder and more appreciable.
In any case, I'm super hyped for the series. I'm still sharing Persona 4 with people I know, and eagerly awaiting whatever p-ch.jp is.
Mandom was one of the "Oh shit!" fights, easily. Part 3 is pretty much just those, but Mandom was easily one of the best imo. JoJo is pretty damn hype. It's been a blast to experience it, and I'm a pretty solid fan, I think. And thanks for that link! I was wondering if JoJoGAF existed/was active. I don't wanna destroy this thread with these ending spoiler tags.
Oh man. A more depressing (on the whole) P4 would be great. I like P4 for what it is, but the mood of P3 is my preference as well.
Nocturne'll probably be my first when I go for it, I've heard pretty much only good things about it. I'm ashamed to admit it, but Imagine was the first SMT game I ever played. Didn't even know what SMT was then, just wanted to check out this weird free MMO.
Haha, I never though of the parallels between P4 and Jojo4, there is some stuff there isn't there?
Tone-wise I almost don't care. I like P4's tone I... sort of like P3's tone (I like the oppressiveness of it, but it could use a little more consistency and nuance), I like the combination of serious character drama and complete lunacy that is P2. Basically what it comes down to is that I trust ATLUS and the Persona team to make an awesome Persona game that's a worthy sequel while being it's own thing. Also curious what they'll do with the setting. We've done big city and we've done small town, so there's not really much else to go. A city with more free-roaming so it actually feels like a big city might be cool.
P3's #tooedgy4me And its not the good old SMT atmospheric dark feeling either, its the anime kind of edgy.. in most part, the only time I truly like the mood is with Akinari's SL and the end game. With P4 I think because they in development together, I think they want differ the game with that. In the end they still haven't find the perfect balance IMO
Nocturne'll probably be my first when I go for it, I've heard pretty much only good things about it. I'm ashamed to admit it, but Imagine was the first SMT game I ever played. Didn't even know what SMT was then, just wanted to check out this weird free MMO.
Haha, I never though of the parallels between P4 and Jojo4, there is some stuff there isn't there?
Tone-wise I almost don't care. I like P4's tone I... sort of like P3's tone (I like the oppressiveness of it, but it could use a little more consistency and nuance), I like the combination of serious character drama and completely lunacy that is P2. Basically what it comes down to is that I trust ATLUS and the Persona team to make an awesome Persona game that's a worthy sequel while being it's own thing. Also curious what they'll do with the setting. We've done big city and we've done small town, so there's not really much else to go. A city with more free-roaming so it actually feels like a big city might be cool.
Yeah, when I was playing P4 I kept talking about it all my friends and no one else really cared. -_- I guess we're all Igor on the inside, right?
Oh man, Imagine? I guess it's only better from there though. (I'll admit I need to play Persona 2 still myself D:, I'll get the IS remake on VITA TV whenever it comes around)
I wish 3 was written more consistently too. The lightheartedness and way it deals with heavier topics isn't as well done as P4, but the overall aesthetic has more potential imo. And obviously the next step is a farm building with no one for 10 miles for the next game though. All the S.Links are farm animals. The cow, pig, farm cat, etc. have personas. S.Link goes up by remembering to feed them. But seriously yeah, they can do anything they want.
Most of my friends were like "whatever", but due to a situation where we were 'stranded' in a dorm room with only someone else's PS2 and my PS2 library, we eventually played P4. They started with mockery and "When I do get to play the gaaaaaame!?" but they're about 25 hours in and past Rise's dungeon now. It's great to watch them play it.
Oh man, Imagine? I guess it's only better from there though. (I'll admit I need to play Persona 2 still myself D:, I'll get the IS remake on VITA TV whenever it comes around)
I wish 3 was written more consistently too. The lightheartedness and way it deals with heavier topics isn't as well done as P4, but the overall aesthetic has more potential imo. And obviously the next step is a farm building with no one for 10 miles for the next game though. All the S.Links are farm animals. The cow, pig, farm cat, etc. have personas. S.Link goes up by remembering to feed them. But seriously yeah, they can do anything they want.
Most of my friends were like "whatever", but due to a situation where we were 'stranded' in a dorm room with only someone else's PS2 and my PS2 library, we eventually played P4. They started with mockery and "When I do get to play the gaaaaaame!?" but they're about 25 hours in and past Rise's dungeon now. It's great to watch them play it.
P2's gameplay sort of hovers between eh and argh, but the story is good and the cast is fantastic. Eikichi is the ultimate bro across the series. I'm not done with Eternal Punishment yet, but it's equally good on those fronts.
I like where this premise is going. It's like Persona farmville. The villain can be an evil factory farmer who wants to bring about the end of the world to stop all natural farms. Was this a Captain Planet episode?
Probably one of the biggest weaknesses of P4 for newcomers is that it takes an ungodly amount of time to actually start. Worth it once it does though! (Rise's dungeon theme is stuck in my head now. OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ.)
P2's gameplay sort of hovers between eh and argh, but the story is good and the cast is fantastic. Eikichi is the ultimate bro across the series. I'm not done with Eternal Punishment yet, but it's equally good on those fronts.
I like where this premise is going. It's like Persona farmville. The villain can be an evil factory farmer who wants to bring about the end of the world to stop all natural farms. Was this a Captain Planet episode?
Probably one of the biggest weaknesses of P4 for newcomers is that it takes an ungodly amount of time to actually start. Worth it once it does though! (Rise's dungeon theme is stuck in my head now. OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ.)
Persona 1 & 2 also had Mangadyne and Aquadyne, it should say that on the back or something. Also nuclear damage but that's just silly.
Yup. I may just watch an LP on YouTube if I end up with free time and remember to do so.
Natural/Unpasteurized Chocolate Milk is the new Soma, and it heals your whole party to full. I'm imagining a horse doing Chie's galactic punt already. Oh, and the animal personas are just bigger versions of the same animals with some funky Kaneko lines. The frog just gets Yosuke's persona though.
"Sorry, I like the music louder." (She hated that dungeon, lol. Made me play the boss for her after she saw the attacl animation. She's a bit of a prude ) I played P4 with no SMT/Persona knowledge and didn't mind the intro as much as other people did. It's definitely confusing for some though.
Not sure who I like least, Metis or Marie. Ken is tolerable since I used him as a healer in P3FES and Labrys was cute I guess. Plus, Ken is only a kid and has a lot of shit to deal with, I can respect him on that level. Labyrs's backstory was generic, but still enjoyable. Her accent grew on me as well. Don't care for Metis or Marie in the slightest. Metis's obsession with her "big sister" was understandable story-wise, but still super annoying. Her obsession with Aigis was her only character trait, which is pathetic. Marie is a tsundere who writes bad poetry. Fuck that. Also has amnesia, oh boy, that hasn't been done to death.[/sarcasm]
Not sure who I like least, Metis or Marie. Ken is tolerable since I used him as a healer in P3FES and Labrys was cute I guess. Plus, Ken is only a kid and has a lot of shit to deal with, I can respect him on that level. Labyrs's backstory was generic, but still enjoyable. Her accent grew on me as well. Don't care for Metis or Marie in the slightest. Metis's obsession with her "big sister" was understandable story-wise, but still super annoying. Her obsession with Aigis was her only character trait, which is pathetic. Marie is a tsundere who writes bad poetry. Fuck that. Also has amnesia, oh boy, that hasn't been done to death.[/sarcasm]
I think a lot of people blame
Shinji's death
on him, which is stupid. It was going to happen regardless, even if Ken wasn't there.
Right, and that makes Ken's character, completely useless.
Take him out of the story and nothing really changes.
But, he is there and is an insufferable little twat.
I just REALLY hate the "mature 10 year old" trope. It's annoying, you aren't fooling anyone. "Oh, I'm too OLD to enjoy the things the other kids in my class like"
Right, and that makes Ken's character, completely useless.
Take him out of the story and nothing really changes.
But, he is there and is an insufferable little twat.
I just REALLY hate the "mature 10 year old" trope. It's annoying, you aren't fooling anyone. "Oh, I'm too OLD to enjoy the things the other kids in my class like"
Same can be said for Koromaru though. Koro adds absolutely nothing to the story, yet people still love him, including me. How is he insufferable though? Other than the one big story event (which I think is slightly justified from his angle), he's pretty chill and quiet. Doesn't stand out much. It's not like he's constantly barging into the scene like Junpei.
Unless I'm missing a few things. Haven't played P3 in a few years.
Right, and that makes Ken's character, completely useless.
Take him out of the story and nothing really changes.
But, he is there and is an insufferable little twat.
I just REALLY hate the "mature 10 year old" trope. It's annoying, you aren't fooling anyone. "Oh, I'm too OLD to enjoy the things the other kids in my class like"
Not really a fan of it either. How many times can he drop "I like something you may think as childish no wait I don't it's for KIDS give me some coffee!"
And yeah, I do blame the incident on him. Would it have happened anyway? Maybe. Just not a fan of him really. I would actually love for him to be in Arena though, just to get a look at what he's been up to. He's on the right path now, yeah, but that doesn't mean much when it happens so late, ya know?
And yeah, I find Koro equally useless, but without major negative consequences of his own selfish actions, so he's harmless.
Not saying Ken wasn't justified for feeling like he did, as it was heartbreaking to go through, but so not the time kid.
Not really a fan of it either. How many times can he drop "I like something you may think as childish no wait I don't it's for KIDS give me some coffee!"
And yeah, I do blame the incident on him. Would it have happened anyway? Maybe. Just not a fan of him really. I would actually love for him to be in Arena though, just to get a look at what he's been up to. He's on the right path now, yeah, but that doesn't mean much when it happens so late, ya know?
And yeah, I find Koro equally useless, but without major negative consequences of his own selfish actions, so he's harmless.
Not saying Ken wasn't justified for feeling like he did, as it was heartbreaking to go through, but so not the time kid.
That's exactly what I'm talking about that makes him insufferable. Dude, you're 10 GO HAVE FUN.
The whole thing with Shinji is..
Ken lures Shniji into the alley and is going to kill Shinji along with himself, Strega just happened to intervene... so who really is to say that Shinji would have been killed?
Koro is useless as well, people just love him because he's a dog.
Koromaru. In his case literally since his persona never ascends ever.
HA!
Anyhoo, non changing? Yeah, she's pretty much set when she joins the cast. One dimensional? Um, not sure about that one. You can boil most down to that if you really want to(like Akihiko).
That's exactly what I'm talking about that makes him insufferable. Dude, you're 10 GO HAVE FUN.
The whole thing with Shinji is..
Ken lures Shniji into the alley and is going to kill Shinji along with himself, Strega just happened to intervene... so who really is to say that Shinji would have been killed?
Koro is useless as well, people just love him because he's a dog.
I love Persona 4 more than 3, but there's definitely more "late game character growth" in P3.
I feel like P3 has the better "macro" writing (the story as a whole) where as P4 is better at "micro" writing (moment to moment). I'm sure others could see it the other way around though.
Ken lures Shniji into the alley and is going to kill Shinji along with himself, Strega just happened to intervene... so who really is to say that Shinji would have been killed?
I love Persona 4 more than 3, but there's definitely more "late game character growth" in P3.
I feel like P3 has the better "macro" writing (the story as a whole) where as P4 is better at "micro" writing (moment to moment). I'm sure others could see it the other way around though.
Probably because P4 separates character development from the actual story while P3 includes it. It's also why some P4 characters might mature in their social link, yet digress back in the main story. Dojima is a good example of this.
Not sure who I like least, Metis or Marie. Ken is tolerable since I used him as a healer in P3FES and Labrys was cute I guess. Plus, Ken is only a kid and has a lot of shit to deal with, I can respect him on that level. Labyrs's backstory was generic, but still enjoyable. Her accent grew on me as well. Don't care for Metis or Marie in the slightest. Metis's obsession with her "big sister" was understandable story-wise, but still super annoying. Her obsession with Aigis was her only character trait, which is pathetic. Marie is a tsundere who writes bad poetry. Fuck that. Also has amnesia, oh boy, that hasn't been done to death.[/sarcasm]
I think a lot of people blame
Shinji's death
on him, which is stupid. It was going to happen regardless, even if Ken wasn't there.
Same can be said for Koromaru though. Koro adds absolutely nothing to the story, yet people still love him, including me. How is he insufferable though? Other than the one big story event (which I think is slightly justified from his angle), he's pretty chill and quiet. Doesn't stand out much. It's not like he's constantly barging into the scene like Junpei.
Unless I'm missing a few things. Haven't played P3 in a few years.
Man, you guys killed it. Let's all join hands, sing kumbaya and proclaim ourselves Team #Doesn'tHateKen
He was a kid. And turned to maturity as the only thing he could grasp on when
his mother was killed
. And can I blame a kid for
wanting revenge for having his mother killed by some random dude in a beanie? Nope. I'd actually endorse him. That Shinji redeems himself from the get-go just makes it icing, and that Ken hesitated when it came to getting his revenge makes it all A-OK.
A strong theme of P3 is coming to terms with death. Ken's arc ultimately shows that revenge is not really good way to come to terms with death because all you're really doing is making someone else have to go through the pain of death. It fits and makes sense with the overall theme.
The fact that you sympathize with Shinji drives home the point. Ken shouldn't have killed Shinji, and he clearly regrets the decision afterwards. It's important they made him kill someone we all generally like, because otherwise wouldn't have come to the same conclusion. It also has the effect of showing Akihiko dealing with death, so it's two birds with one stone.
Each character deals with a different kind of death and reacts in different ways. When they understand and internalize it, their persona ascends.
Not yet. Got to the "let's explore dangerous gang territory at night" event in P3P FeMC route and got distracted. That was a year ago. I would say that I'll head back soon, but I'd be lying. My full time job, gym membership, and Pokemon X will be keeping me busy for a while. I do hear that his Social Link is the best in the series though.
This is a very fair point. 2's cast was all awesome, and the same can be said of 4. 3's varies from person to person on a per character basis.
Still think this has more to do with the writing and whether or not they feel like actual friends. 2 and 4 had this, 3 did at times but not fully. And yeah, macro vs micro story is a great way of looking at things. I think 3's way is probably best for the reasons kewl said in characters kind of backpedaling on themselves in story. 4 SpoILZ
Seriously Dojima, we just became family, I maxed your link out YESTERDAY(yes, first playthrough this happened exactly), and you're dragging me to the police station? Is this really happening right now?
I don't blame Ken
for wanting revenge. It's especially ironic that the kid that tries "acting" grownup has some seriously messed up adult motivations to his actions. But I'd say an adult in his situation was still an asshole and unlikable anyway, him being a kid has little to do with it. Time and place kid, and this shit ain't it. You waited this many years already, you could wait a month or two more. Shit, he even waits for a specific date(yes, I know why the date), but full moon? Really?
