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Persona Community Thread |OT2| Burn My Thread

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B

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Man, Persona GAF sure is bored...

Back to Persona 1 talk. I'm only two dungeons away from the true ending and MAN...what the fuck is going on with this plot line? I am passed the point where the BAD ending occurs and I can't fathom how an uninformed player of the rigid true ending requirements would have felt about watching those events unfold followed by a Game Over screen.

I generally thought the localization was great on this game, but then a long sequence of events occur leading up to the bad ending(and beyond for true path) and I was left baffled at the lines of dialogue. Even decided to reload and watch the scene again just to see if a second reading would clear up some confusion...but not really.

Maki...WTF is going on here? (Off to see True ending, after I clear these last couple dungeons Ugh)
 
D

Dantis

Member
Persona_3_Aigis_5.jpg
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Frigging gorgeous piece of art.

Soejima, you magnificent bastard.

Whilst I was looking for it, I also came across this:

persona-series-persona-3-arisato-minato-kirijo-mitsuru-yamagishi-fuuka-iori-junpei-sanada-akihiko-takeba-yukari-aragaki-shinjirou-koromaru-amada-ken-aigis-HD-Wallpapers.jpg
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Might have it as my wallpaper. It's nice.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Wa wa wa wa, what gives :(

You have to actually fuse your ultimate Personas in P2:EP, which is kind of a problem because their level requirement is well into the 60s. DAMN. Fortunately, Tatsuya is level 56, so If I can bump him up to level 58 I should be able to fuse them...

As an aside, I'm having a lot more fun with Persona 2:EP's battle system now that Tatsuya's joined my party, <3 Apollo. It's just like old times.
 
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Venfayth

Member
Spoilertown, Persona 4 and Persona 4 Golden:

What are the different references P4 makes to humanity being obsessed with modern electronics and television? I'm talking about specific pieces of dialogue, and general themes, beyond the fact that you're exploring a TV and the midnight channel broadcast.

Does anyone else think that when people die inside the TV - which is actually the "forest of peoples hearts" - that them appearing tangled in power cords, is on the same theme?
 
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Lunar15

Member
Venfayth said:
Spoilertown, Persona 4 and Persona 4 Golden:

What are the different references P4 makes to humanity being obsessed with modern electronics and television? I'm talking about specific pieces of dialogue, and general themes, beyond the fact that you're exploring a TV and the midnight channel broadcast.

Does anyone else think that when people die inside the TV - which is actually the "forest of peoples hearts" - that them appearing tangled in power cords, is on the same theme?
Click to expand...

This is my kind of discussion right here:

I think the TV motif is more a reference to media, which often magnifies and distorts society's thoughts and feelings. I think this is where people get a bit confused about Persona's themes. The Midnight Channel is not a reflection of how everyone thinks, it's a magnification of how society thinks. That's why the shadow versions of everyone are so ridiculously over the top: People who intake a lot of media start thinking they themselves have to fit these specific roles that society makes for them. To me, it was media, more than technology, that formed the core themes of P4. A great example of this is Mitsuo's shadow, which is about someone obsessed with video games. He became self-centered and longed to get attention. This is a reference to how in video games, you're always the center of attention. The question that lingers in the game (and in its themes) is was it what mitsuo believed in his heart that drew him to video games, or was it video games that gave him that conclusion. The answer is not to accept the stereotype, it's to accept the problem and work on solving it.

As for the the wires alluding to the forest of the heart, that's a neat angle I never saw before.
 
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Venfayth

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
I never got that out of the themes in P4 outside of maybe the lyrics in the opening theme.
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Really?

Wasn't one of Izanami's things that she wanted to eliminate humanity because she saw that all of them just wanted to watch TV instead of going out and having their own experiences?

Lunar15 said:
This is my kind of discussion right here:

I think the TV motif is more a reference to media, which often magnifies and distorts society's thoughts and feelings. I think this is where people get a bit confused about Persona's themes. The Midnight Channel is not a reflection of how everyone thinks, it's a magnification of how society thinks. That's why the shadow versions of everyone are so ridiculously over the top: People who intake a lot of media start thinking they themselves have to fit these specific roles that society makes for them. To me, it was media, more than technology, that formed the core themes of P4.

As for the the wires alluding to the forest of the heart, that's a neat angle I never saw before.
Click to expand...

And also this ...

When you're inside the TV, when some of the broadcasts happen (I think during Kanji's?) you can hear people outside looking in and cheering or laughing. I thought this was really creepy for some reason.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Venfayth said:
Really?

Wasn't one of Izanami's things that she wanted to eliminate humanity because she saw that all of them just wanted to watch TV instead of going out and having their own experiences?
Click to expand...

Whoa, what? I don't recall that at all. What I got out of it was more in line with what Lunar15 said:
It's about the media and its ramifications on how one perceives themselves and how they think others perceive them.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
Venfayth said:
Really?

Wasn't one of Izanami's things that she wanted to eliminate humanity because she saw that all of them just wanted to watch TV instead of going out and having their own experiences?



And also this ...

When you're inside the TV, when some of the broadcasts happen (I think during Kanji's?) you can hear people outside looking in and cheering or laughing. I thought this was really creepy for some reason.
Click to expand...

It's implied that people are watching the midnight channel. You often hear kids at school talking about what they saw on it the night before. This is also why the midnight channel starts out fuzzy and then ends up clear: The more people who watch it, the more people start buying into the misconception, which feeds the shadow.

It's all about not falling into the stereotypes that society creates and the media reinforces. For example, kanji was confused about his sexuality. His shadow slowly became a grossly and obnoxiously exaggerated example of a gay man, or what a lot of people *view* a gay man to be. Because that's what society says right? If you're confused about your sexuality, you must be some flaming homosexual, right? That was his fear, and that's what was represented. What he discovered is that he just needed to find confidence in who himself as a person first, and then come to grips with his sexuality.
 
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Venfayth

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Whoa, what? I don't recall that at all. What I got out of it was more in line with what Lunar15 said:
It's about the media and its ramifications on how one perceives themselves and how they think others perceive them.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree that exists in the game.
But I'm also remembering (maybe falsely) hearing some interesting things talking to random people outside right before the fog comes out, and during the fog being out. And then also Marie's actual backstory in P4G. I'm almost positive people talk about the TV all the time during the game, and it's not always about the midnight channel.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Venfayth said:
Really?

Wasn't one of Izanami's things that she wanted to eliminate humanity because she saw that all of them just wanted to watch TV instead of going out and having their own experiences?
Click to expand...

I don't recall that exactly, but if it's in there I think you're taking it too literally.

My interpretation was that
people rely too heavily on second hand knowledge proliferated through the media. We need to get up and find our own truths rather than relying on the half truths and snap judgements that we receive from television and rumours and whatnot.
 
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Lunar15

Member
Yeah, I never really got an anti-technology feel from anything. The main theme is to seek out the truth about yourself and others with your own eyes, not by what society says or what lies on the surface. TV itself isn't bad, but relying on it to shape your perception of yourself and others is.
 
V

Venfayth

Member
I know for sure that Izanami wanted to spy on humanity to learn their "true desires". She then decided humanity's desire was not for truth, but to be enveloped by fog.

My statement may have been too literal, but the point is that humans would rather have the comforts of illusion as opposed to the realities of truth. The primary lens for this in the game is via the TV and maybe just the Media in general as Lunar15 said.
 
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Lunar15

Member
Venfayth said:
I know for sure that Izanami wanted to spy on humanity to learn their "true desires". She then decided humanity's desire was not for truth, but to be enveloped by fog.

My statement may have been too literal, but the point is that humans would rather have the comforts of illusion as opposed to the realities of truth. The primary lens for this in the game is via the TV and maybe just the Media in general as Lunar15 said.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this.
I mean, she does say as much. I think we're saying the same thing here, just in different ways.
 
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Venfayth

Member
Yeah. I really want to play through again and pay attention to some of the dialogues, because I'm almost positive there are some more specific examples of what I'm thinking of.
 
I

Iskander

Neo Member
Mass Destruction is my ringtone - every phone call is like an enemy encounter! (Edit: oops, posted kinda late and discussion moved on from battle themes...F5 before posting I guess)
 
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Lunar15

Member
Venfayth said:
Yeah. I really want to play through again and pay attention to some of the dialogues, because I'm almost positive there are some more specific examples of what I'm thinking of.
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The game is RIPE with clever and subtle uses of the different themes and motifs. Some are blatantly obvious, (I mean, the fight song is literally 'reach out to the truth'), but others are surprisingly subtle.

There's a lot to find on multiple playthroughs. It's thematically dense, and I love that. P3 is the same way.
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
Iskander said:
Mass Destruction is my ringtone - every phone call is like an enemy encounter! (Edit: oops, posted kinda late and discussion moved on from battle themes...F5 before posting I guess)
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It's coo.

Iwatodai Dorm is my ring tone, before that I used Mass Destruction.
 
S

Squire

Banned
ShmeebAlina said:
Are there copyright issues with using Soejima's art or something? There's a ton of official art for Aigis.
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No issues. Levito just shopped official art of Akihiko into the header for the last episode.

We could use official art, but the community has some solid artists, so we try to commission them when possible.
 
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Jintor

Member
PK Gaming said:
Yeah, I really wish they tore into you for being a lying piece of human garbage. Like, the repercussion for cheating on your girlfriend would result in your social link being irrevocably changed to "0" or "broken." That way, the scene could actually live up to the hype ("Get ready to have your heart torn out on Valentines day!")
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To be honest, I only ever saw Rise's, because I didn't really want to see any more.

I mean, the thing is, they're not about the girls being angry at you. Rise mostly blames herself for the whole thing, which is just incredibly depressing. It made me feel like a human piece of trash. If you needed a mechanical incentive to be disappointed, then the scene's writing would've failed. Perhaps it did for you; maybe you were sufficiently disconnected from the characters. But I wasn't. It hurt.
 
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jaxword

Member
Jintor said:
To be honest, I only ever saw Rise's, because I didn't really want to see any more.

I mean, the thing is, they're not about the girls being angry at you. Rise mostly blames herself for the whole thing, which is just incredibly depressing. It made me feel like a human piece of trash. If you needed a mechanical incentive to be disappointed, then the scene's writing would've failed. Perhaps it did for you; maybe you were sufficiently disconnected from the characters. But I wasn't. It hurt.
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Yeah, seriously. It's a bit sociopathic to feel good or proud at being a "pimp" for sleeping with all these fictional characters while at the same time feeling nothing for hurting them.
 
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