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Persona Community Thread |OT4| The Golden Number

S

Sophia

Member
Green Mamba said:
Okay, I really have to ask as I feel I need to understand it more before I move on to my next Shadow--what the heck was
Kunino-Sagiri
?
Click to expand...

It's an aspect of Izanami born from many shadows that merged with Namatame. P4G is very specific that it is not Namatame's shadow, but it does seem to represent the reverse justice arcana.

There's some pretty good info here you might find useful. Obvious P4 spoilers at the link.
 
N

Necrovex

Member
ScraftyDevil said:
Camus and Aurelius or GTFO.

Bentham would be the navigator because he's too busy fulfilling his desires to fight. Plus he could analyze enemies using his Hedonistic Calculus!
Click to expand...

I'm actually reading Meditation at this very moment, and I plan to read Camus in the very near future!
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Sophia said:
It's an aspect of Izanami born from many shadows that merged with Namatame. P4G is very specific that it is not Namatame's shadow, but it does seem to represent the reverse justice arcana.

There's some pretty good info here you might find useful. Obvious P4 spoilers at the link.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read through the MegaTen Wiki part about it. What I'm not clear on is what is up with
Nametame before he transforms. The Wiki says he is possessed by his Shadow prior to transforming, but I am unsure that this is true. He does have the gold eyes and a weirder disposition, but Adachi does before fighting him as well, and I don't think he was possessed by his Shadow at that point. I had figured the "Shadow Adachi" you saw was just Ameno-Sagiri showing through him (as Ameno was possessing him or something?) and that the "Shadow Nametame" you see before the Kunino-Sagiri fight was Kunino showing through Nametame. So was that what you could call a "Shadow Nametame" before the fight saying all that stuff about "saving people" or was that not? This is my sticking point here, as it fundamentally changes how I am approaching Nametame--is there a defined personality for a "Shadow Nametame" or not?
 
M

Meia

Member
Sophia said:
It's an aspect of Izanami born from many shadows that merged with Namatame. P4G is very specific that it is not Namatame's shadow, but it does seem to represent the reverse justice arcana.

There's some pretty good info here you might find useful. Obvious P4 spoilers at the link.
Click to expand...


Well, all the character's shadows represent
reversed versions of their arcana. Since it was Nanako's dungeon, and she doesn't have a shadow/persona, it's probably why they tied her dungeon together with Namatame's in the first place, so you face a reversed arcana boss. Doubt Namatame was a Justice arcana to begin with.
 
S

ScraftyDevil

Banned
Necrovex said:
I'm actually reading Meditation at this very moment, and I plan to read Camus in the very near future!
Click to expand...

Aurelius had the best philosophies. Stoicism FTW!

You definitely need to read L'Etranger, by the way. It's a pretty dang good book that conveys Camus' absurdist sentiments really well.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Green Mamba said:
Yeah, I read through the MegaTen Wiki part about it. What I'm not clear on is what is up with
Nametame before he transforms. The Wiki says he is possessed by his Shadow prior to transforming, but I am unsure that this is true. He does have the gold eyes and a weirder disposition, but Adachi does before fighting him as well, and I don't think he was possessed by his Shadow at that point. I had figured the "Shadow Adachi" you saw was just Ameno-Sagiri showing through him (as Ameno was possessing him or something?) and that the "Shadow Nametame" you see before the Kunino-Sagiri fight was Kunino showing through Nametame. So was that what you could call a "Shadow Nametame" before the fight saying all that stuff about "saving people" or was that not? This is my sticking point here, as it fundamentally changes how I am approaching Nametame.
Click to expand...

It's hard to say, seeing as Kunino-Sagiri has virtually no dialogue outside of possessing Namatame, where as Ameno-Sagiri spoke quite a bit and made it clear he was separate from Adachi. Worse. Ameno-sagiri is based of an actual god, where as Kunino-Sagiri doesn't appear to be....

Meia said:
Well, all the character's shadows represent
reversed versions of their arcana. Since it was Nanako's dungeon, and she doesn't have a shadow/persona, it's probably why they tied her dungeon together with Namatame's in the first place, so you face a reversed arcana boss. Doubt Namatame was a Justice arcana to begin with.
Click to expand...

Probably something like that. It would help if
Kunino-sagiri was more then just a boss fight.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Sophia said:
It's hard to say, seeing as Kunino-Sagiri has virtually no dialogue outside of possessing Namatame, where as Ameno-Sagiri spoke quite a bit and made it clear he was separate from Adachi. Worse. Ameno-sagiri is based of an actual god, where as Kunino-Sagiri doesn't appear to be....
Click to expand...

Fuck, I don't know what to think now.
 
S

Setsu00

Member
Sophia said:
It's hard to say, seeing as Kunino-Sagiri has virtually no dialogue outside of possessing Namatame, where as Ameno-Sagiri spoke quite a bit and made it clear he was separate from Adachi. Worse. Ameno-sagiri is based of an actual god, where as Kunino-Sagiri doesn't appear to be....
Click to expand...

I just googled Kunino-Sagiri and found out that it is actually based on an existing god. However, Kunino-Sagiri seems to be quite obscure considering even the Japanese Wikipedia mentions it only on one occasion as "Kuni no Sagiri no Kami" (国之狭霧神).

Edit: Googling some more gave me this chart:
Izanagi_Izanami_genealogy.png
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Green Mamba said:
Yeah, I read through the MegaTen Wiki part about it. What I'm not clear on is what is up with
Nametame before he transforms. The Wiki says he is possessed by his Shadow prior to transforming, but I am unsure that this is true. He does have the gold eyes and a weirder disposition, but Adachi does before fighting him as well, and I don't think he was possessed by his Shadow at that point. I had figured the "Shadow Adachi" you saw was just Ameno-Sagiri showing through him (as Ameno was possessing him or something?) and that the "Shadow Nametame" you see before the Kunino-Sagiri fight was Kunino showing through Nametame. So was that what you could call a "Shadow Nametame" before the fight saying all that stuff about "saving people" or was that not? This is my sticking point here, as it fundamentally changes how I am approaching Nametame--is there a defined personality for a "Shadow Nametame" or not?
Click to expand...

So here's my take on it after seeing the show:

The Sagiri were definitely interfering in the cases of Adachi, Namatame and Teddie. The anime makes Ameno's hijacking of Teddie's shadow pretty clear. So in that case Teddie's shadow was still Teddie's shadow, but hijacked by the Sagiri. I don't think Namatame ever actually has a shadow, though. The one in the TV is a fake, and Namatame's eyes go yellow moments before he is replaced by Kusino Sagiri. It's made harder to tell by the fact that Namatame and Kusino Sagiri shared delusions. At least, the conversation after the battle with Ameno Sagiri makes me think so. Someone asks how much of what Adachi did was his fault and not Ameno's. In Namatame's case, he legitimately thought he was saving those people, and Kusino, being one of the Sagiri, made it worse since it also thought it was helping mankind by giving them what it thought they wanted. Adachi I'm not really sure. Like, I guess, based on what he said, that the shadows and the Sagiri decided that he was exactly what humanity wanted. Ameno is even, I dunno, polite enough to wait until he's lost before intervening.
 
A

animaSerah

Member
It's been a while since I've done a big Persona art project, but I'm back with my latest idea: Persona x Danganronpa!

makoto_yuki___persona_x_danganronpa_by_darkside989-d78okuh.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm going to do the entire casts of P3 and P4, including the Velvet Room attendants. Also, I'll be doing two sets: one, as above, using the PQ character renders, and another using Soejima's renders from P3 and P4 (like this one)

I wanted to post this first one here to get some feedback before I start in on the rest-- and yes, everyone will get their own "Ultimate" title, a la DR. :)
 
S

Setsu00

Member
Sophia said:
It's... female?! Or is that genderless?

/confused
Click to expand...

Seems to be genderless. Apparently, Kunino-Sagiri and Ameno-Sagiri were born from the relationship between Ohoyamatsumi and Kaya-no-hime, who in turn were offsprings of Izanagi and Izanami.

Japanese mythology is confusing.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
CorvoSol said:
So here's my take on it after seeing the show:

The Sagiri were definitely interfering in the cases of Adachi, Namatame and Teddie. The anime makes Ameno's hijacking of Teddie's shadow pretty clear. So in that case Teddie's shadow was still Teddie's shadow, but hijacked by the Sagiri. I don't think Namatame ever actually has a shadow, though. The one in the TV is a fake, and Namatame's eyes go yellow moments before he is replaced by Kusino Sagiri. It's made harder to tell by the fact that Namatame and Kusino Sagiri shared delusions. At least, the conversation after the battle with Ameno Sagiri makes me think so. Someone asks how much of what Adachi did was his fault and not Ameno's. In Namatame's case, he legitimately thought he was saving those people, and Kusino, being one of the Sagiri, made it worse since it also thought it was helping mankind by giving them what it thought they wanted. Adachi I'm not really sure. Like, I guess, based on what he said, that the shadows and the Sagiri decided that he was exactly what humanity wanted. Ameno is even, I dunno, polite enough to wait until he's lost before intervening.
Click to expand...
This is roughly what I felt on the subject. But
something possessing Teddie's Shadow is an entirely foreign concept to me, I've never heard of nor considered that before.
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
Setsu00 said:
I just googled Kunino-Sagiri and found out that it is actually based on an existing god. However, Kunino-Sagiri seems to be quite obscure considering even the Japanese Wikipedia mentions it only on one occasion as "Kuni no Sagiri no Kami" (国之狭霧神).

Edit: Googling some more gave me this chart:
Izanagi_Izanami_genealogy.png
Click to expand...

So where does Ghoul fit into all this
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Green Mamba said:
This is roughly what I felt on the subject. But
something possessing Teddie's Shadow is an entirely foreign concept to me, I've never heard of nor considered that before.
Click to expand...

Well it wasn't much of a thing I got from the game as I did from Persona 4 The Animation.
During the Shadow Teddie fight they focus on just one of Shadow Teddie's eyes, and Izanagi defeats Shadow Teddie by stabbing a large, spherical object inside of it that looks like Ameno Sagiri. When Ameno Sagiri shows up for the final battle in Magatsu, I'm pretty sure Yu remembers seeing it during that incident, too.

I could be wrong, but that was the implication I got.
 
G

Gazoinks

Member
CorvoSol said:
Well it wasn't much of a thing I got from the game as I did from Persona 4 The Animation.
During the Shadow Teddie fight they focus on just one of Shadow Teddie's eyes, and Izanagi defeats Shadow Teddie by stabbing a large, spherical object inside of it that looks like Ameno Sagiri. When Ameno Sagiri shows up for the final battle in Magatsu, I'm pretty sure Yu remembers seeing it during that incident, too.

I could be wrong, but that was the implication I got.
Click to expand...

You're right. I can't remember if this is implied in the game at all (I don't think it is?) but the anime definitely did it.
 
A

Acid08

Banned
TheTrueSelf said:
It's been a while since I've done a big Persona art project, but I'm back with my latest idea: Persona x Danganronpa!



I'm going to do the entire casts of P3 and P4, including the Velvet Room attendants. Also, I'll be doing two sets: one, as above, using the PQ character renders, and another using Soejima's renders from P3 and P4 (like this one)

I wanted to post this first one here to get some feedback before I start in on the rest-- and yes, everyone will get their own "Ultimate" title, a la DR. :)
Click to expand...
Can't wait for the Yukari versions :D
 
L

LX_Theo

Banned
TheTrueSelf said:
It's been a while since I've done a big Persona art project, but I'm back with my latest idea: Persona x Danganronpa!



I'm going to do the entire casts of P3 and P4, including the Velvet Room attendants. Also, I'll be doing two sets: one, as above, using the PQ character renders, and another using Soejima's renders from P3 and P4 (like this one)

I wanted to post this first one here to get some feedback before I start in on the rest-- and yes, everyone will get their own "Ultimate" title, a la DR. :)
Click to expand...

I like the idea a lot! My only issue would be that, at least that specific one you showed, it seems like there's a bit much on the empty space side between the render and the text. Maybe make the text wider or the render larger?
 
N

Necrovex

Member
ScraftyDevil said:
Aurelius had the best philosophies. Stoicism FTW!

You definitely need to read L'Etranger, by the way. It's a pretty dang good book that conveys Camus' absurdist sentiments really well.
Click to expand...

It's a pretty solid book thus far. I'm certainly going to take away a few key items from it.

I actually own The Stranger, and I plan to read it later in the year for the 50 books challenge.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
CorvoSol said:
Well it wasn't much of a thing I got from the game as I did from Persona 4 The Animation.
During the Shadow Teddie fight they focus on just one of Shadow Teddie's eyes, and Izanagi defeats Shadow Teddie by stabbing a large, spherical object inside of it that looks like Ameno Sagiri. When Ameno Sagiri shows up for the final battle in Magatsu, I'm pretty sure Yu remembers seeing it during that incident, too.

I could be wrong, but that was the implication I got.
Click to expand...
Oh, if it's just in the animation, then I think I can safely ignore it in this case.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Green Mamba said:
Oh, if it's just in the animation, then I think I can safely ignore it in this case.
Click to expand...

I think the game implies it, too.

Green Mamba said:
When?
Click to expand...

If I'm not completely mistaken there is like, 1 line
before the Shadow Teddie fight, in which Rise comments that there's something more to Teddie's Shadow than JUST that. Likewise Chie's comment "That THING came out of OUR Teddie?" takes on a different meaning with this in mind.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
TheTrueSelf said:
It's been a while since I've done a big Persona art project, but I'm back with my latest idea: Persona x Danganronpa!



I'm going to do the entire casts of P3 and P4, including the Velvet Room attendants. Also, I'll be doing two sets: one, as above, using the PQ character renders, and another using Soejima's renders from P3 and P4 (like this one)

I wanted to post this first one here to get some feedback before I start in on the rest-- and yes, everyone will get their own "Ultimate" title, a la DR. :)
Click to expand...

Literally the best crossover ever ♪

But wait, if Makoto's the Ultimate Wild Card then what about Yu?!?

The Ultimate Protagonist

Just kidding, I guess the Ultimate Wild Card would suffice

Or am I...?
 
B

buddha0991

Member
The Ultimate Speedrunner
The Ultimate Paradox Boy
The Ultimate Positive Thinker
The Ultimate Wild Card
The Ultimate Genki Girl
The Ultimate Toaster
The Ultimate Ladies Man
 
L

LX_Theo

Banned
So how is P5 NOT the top spot for anyone? Is it just because its so far off? Does having established characters just flare up your anticipation more? Or... something else?
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
5 and pretty much nothing else. I'm not much of a spinoff guy, especially for story based games. What I've seen of Arena's story looked like really bad fanfiction, and I've never been a huge ArcSys fighting game fan.
 
L

LelouchViBritannia

Member
Once they start to show some P5 footage, I'll be hyped as hell. But right now, i don't really feel anything. All we've seen are some school chairs and chains.

I'd probably say for myself its

P4 Ultimax
PQ
P Dancing
P5

Im a huge fighting game fan.

This list will probably change the instant they show off P5 however,

XD
 
C

cjkeats

Member
LX_Theo said:
So how is P5 NOT the top spot for anyone? Is it just because its so far off? Does having established characters just flare up your anticipation more? Or... something else?
Click to expand...

I really like the cast of P4 and P3. Seeing them again is more exciting than a set of chairs at the moment.

Ask again when P5 is actually shown.
 
A

Acid08

Banned
Green Mamba said:
5 and pretty much nothing else. I'm not much of a spinoff guy, especially for story based games. What I've seen of Arena's story looked like really bad fanfiction, and I've never been a huge ArcSys fighting game fan.
Click to expand...
Yeah, biggest issue for me is the I just don't really like ArcSys games. If it wasn't for Yukari and Junpei I would have no problem skipping P4AU.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
I would certainly hope P5 being shown will put it to the top of everyone's lists, or else I'd be really, really concerned with how P5 ends up.
 
S

Sophia

Member
LX_Theo said:
So how is P5 NOT the top spot for anyone? Is it just because its so far off? Does having established characters just flare up your anticipation more? Or... something else?
Click to expand...

Because we have virtually zero concrete information about Persona 5 where as Persona Q is shaping up to be the greatest old school RPG of all time. Also Persona Q has Aigis and Persona 5 doesn't.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's hard to care about a game that at this point doesn't exist. Lemme know when we see some gameplay.
 
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