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[Dantis]

I can't agree with this. Can't really make a in-depth argument as to why right now, but I'd like to point this scene out (Persona 3 spoilers).

P3 actually has character development, with several moments like the one I posted above. In P4, the characters have two phases: how they are before they face their Shadow, and how they are for the rest of the game afterwards. There isn't much of an arc there, while P3 has the freedom to flesh out the characters as the game progresses naturally because it's not restricted to optional Social Link scenes.

A notable example is Junpei, like you said. In the beginning, he's remarkably jealous of the main character and is rather generally unstable. But everything that happens during the game serves to make him grow as a character, where he eventually becomes awesome in The Answer.

Man, Arena kinda screws this scene up.

 

[Sophia]

I wasn't really impressed by this scene at all. It would be a lot better if the game made a more concerted effort to make him into a rounded character, but as it is in context it's this weird spike in an otherwise pretty much flat line.

EDIT: I would disagree that P4 didn't really have character arcs, it just went about them in a way RPGs don't normally do them. They are told in singular, relatively short stories before you get them on your team. They aren't missing, they're just different. P3's development is much more traditional RPG in the sense that they're spaced across the entire game and layered atop one another.

So.... character arcs?

There's nothing really special about how P4 handles them either. They're well written, but hardly unique. The characters themselves however are what are special.

 

[Green Mamba]

So.... character arcs?

I think you misread what I said--I was saying there were character arcs in P4.

 

[Gazoinks]

In P4, the characters have two phases: how they are before they face their Shadow, and how they are for the rest of the game afterwards.

I've seen this brought up before, and I totally disagree. None of the characters resolve their conflict through their Shadow encounter. That's what starts them dealing with their problems, which are resolved over the course of their S.Link.

That being said, P3 does have more of its character development tied into the story (something which I prefer for mechanical reasons outside of the scope of this post), but it's much more uneven because of some underdeveloped cast members.

Basically if we could just combine the approaches that would be perfect!

EDIT: Looking at it again, I think I might've misread your post, in that you were talking about character development tied specifically to the central story. Well, the point still sort of stands I guess.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

EDIT: I would disagree that P4 didn't really have character arcs, it just went about them in a way RPGs don't normally do them. They are told in singular, relatively short stories before you get them on your team. They aren't missing, they're just different. P3's development is much more traditional RPG in the sense that they're spaced across the entire game and layered atop one another.

Like you're pointing out, there's a big lack of gradual character arc in P4, and it's like I said with the pre-Shadow/post-Shadow arcs. There's barely any noticeable development. The characters haven't really grown individually—or at least shown that they have—compared to the beginning and end of the game other then "their friendship has grown stronger."

This is where P4's Social Links come in, where you see how they come to terms with who they are and their place in the world (which is pretty much what happens once they accept their Shadows anyways). I think it was lacking.

 

[Sophia]

I think you misread what I said--I was saying there were character arcs in P4.

Yeah, I did misread it at first. I still can't really agree with your assessment tho. Lots of JRPGs do the "tell a short story, then they join the party" method. It's extremely common among the Tales RPG series, and is practically a staple of many Final Fantasy games.

Like you're pointing out, there's a big lack of gradual character arc in P4, and it's like I said with the pre-Shadow/post-Shadow arcs. There's barely any noticeable development. The characters haven't really grown individually—or at least shown that they have—compared to the beginning and end of the game other then "their friendship has grown stronger."

This is where P4's Social Links come in, where you see how they come to terms with who they are and their place in the world (which is pretty much what happens once they accept their Shadows anyways). I think it was lacking.

I'm kind of split on P4's social link method. On one hand I do like how the party has a bigger focus. On the other hand, their social links are kind of oddly forgotten about in the story as a whole. Especially Yosuke, Dojima, and Nanako, who all seem to take two steps forward in their social links, then the plot rolls around and they take one step back.

 

[Chet Rippo]

That I can agree on but the world was still interesting. As much as I've said some aspects of the game seem pointless I don't think it's terrible at all. The characters are easily what sell this game.

As a whole, I feel Persona 3 wastes a lot of it's potential.

 

[Soma]

I'm kind of split on P4's social link method. On one hand I do like how the party has a bigger focus. On the other hand, their social links are kind of oddly forgotten about in the story as a whole. Especially Yosuke, Dojima, and Nanako, who all seem to take two steps forward in their social links, then the plot rolls around and they take one step back.

This part always bugged me quite a bit and is one of the things I preferred in P3.

Neither are really perfect though and I hope P5 makes a noticeably improvement on this system.

 

[Red The Hunter]

I can't agree with this. Can't really make a in-depth argument as to why right now, but I'd like to point this scene out (Persona 3 spoilers).

P3 actually has character development, with several moments like the one I posted above. In P4, the characters have two phases: how they are before they face their Shadow, and how they are for the rest of the game afterwards. There isn't much of an arc there, while P3 has the freedom to flesh out the characters as the game progresses naturally because it's not restricted to optional Social Link scenes.

A notable example is Junpei, like you said. In the beginning, he's remarkably jealous of the main character and is rather generally unstable. But everything that happens during the game serves to make him grow as a character, where he eventually becomes awesome in The Answer.

TBH, I found Akihiko dull as rocks in terms of character development. He had a lot of interesting plot threads that are brought up about him (him being an orphan, his sister, his relationship with Shinji) but almost all these were never used. With the exception of Shinji, which they delve into and does add a good amount of character development to him. But I felt like it was kinda weak and not that substantial enough to shake off that he was still a bland character.
Another thing that kinda bugs me is that him, along with Mitsuru, don't really feel like teenagers. They feel like more of people in their early 20s than high school students.

 

[Sophia]

This part always bugged me quite a bit and is one of the things I preferred in P3.

Neither are really perfect though and I hope P5 makes a noticeably improvement on this system.

It was refreshing to see that in both Persona 3 Portable (female protagonist) and Persona 4 Golden that the social links were finally reflected in the plot. Mind you, only a few of them

Spoiler

spefically, Shinjiro, Ryoji, Adachi, and Marie

, but it was a significant improvement from how they handled Dojima in the original version of Persona 4.

 

[Green Mamba]

Like you're pointing out, there's a big lack of gradual character arc in P4, and it's like I said with the pre-Shadow/post-Shadow arcs. There's barely any noticeable development. The characters haven't really grown individually—or at least shown that they have—compared to the beginning and end of the game other then "their friendship has grown stronger."

This is where P4's Social Links come in, where you see how they come to terms with who they are and their place in the world (which is pretty much what happens once they accept their Shadows anyways). I think it was lacking.

Yeah, P4 doesn't really have any gradual character growth, but to say they aren't different from when you meet them to the end of the game is incorrect, as you said yourself earlier. They do grow, but it comes in fits and starts. But on the whole, this is pretty much correct of the entire cast of P3 save for Yukari, Junpei, and Mitsuru (and of these three the only one I think they really succeeded with was Junpei).

But getting back to my original point, by development I was also speaking of fleshing out a character, something P4 is much better at than P3. P4 has no one as flat and dull as Akihiko, Ken, Fuuka, and Shinji taking up room on your party.

 

[CorvoSol]

Yukari and Junpei are the only two characters in P3 I would say are fully properly developed characters in the P4 sense. Junpei's the better of the two.

Mitsuru and Aigis are the next step down--they are properly developed, but Aigis's development comes way too late after months of nothing and Mitsuru never really comes across as a real person.

Fuuka and Ken have character arcs but they forgot to do the actual grunt work of showing them and instead have just the beginning and the end. They feel unfinished. And poor Ken hardly ever appears in any other scenes.

Akihiko is a non-character, flat as a board.

Koromaru is a dog.

Shinjiro is a glorified plot device.

I always thought going in that Persona 3 had a lot more characters than 4, and while that's technically true, in the end it really feels like it has less.

This is why I actually really liked P3P's Female side of things. Male side had a few okay ones, like Mitsuru, Aigis, Sun and Tower for instance. It's just female side really opened things up.

Junpei goes from being a proto-Yosuke or sub-Mark to being a guy who knows he's a screw up and wants to change that, and from being a shameless skirt chaser to a protective brother.

Shinji goes from being grumpy

Spoiler

Aerith

in a beanie to being a sweet guy who cares about the gang, is considerate of their needs and basically being the team dad to Mitsuru's team mom.

Akihiko gets some character development male side because he interacts with Shinji and Ken, but his social links with FeMC really subvert the image of a stoic badass he puts up and show that he's sort of just a screwed up teenager who is clueless about girls.

Ken goes from being a total shit to someone whose terrible mistakes are understandable, and whose struggle to hide how much of a kid he is is actually sort of endearing.

Koro is sorta odd. I mean he's still a dog, but he develops a personality over the social links. He's lonely, he's sad, but also he's very much in need of knowing that the team really cares about him. It's less pronounced, but Koromaru is also an infinitely better Social Link than that fucking Fox in P4.

And of course the P3P Ladybros are great.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Yeah, P4 doesn't really have any gradual character growth, but to say they aren't different from when you meet them to the end of the game is incorrect, as you said yourself earlier. They do grow, but it comes in fits and starts.

But getting back to my original point, by development I was also speaking of fleshing out a character, something P4 is much better at than P3. P4 has no one as flat and dull as Akihiko, Ken, Fuuka, and Shinji taking up room on your party.

How is it incorrect? I didn't say that it comes in fits and starts, I said that one event (meeting their Shadow) happens during the course of the story and that's the only thing that changes the characters. How is Naoto, Chie, Yukiko, Kanji or whoever else (minus Teddie) different from after they faced their Shadow compared to how they are at the end of the game?

And I don't get the flat or dull point. If we're talking character depth, then what makes Teddie Yukiko any more remarkable than them?

Edit: Actually, strike Teddie, since he's one of the characters I'd say actually grows during the course of the whole story (heh, maybe in part because his Social Link is forced).

 

[Green Mamba]

How is it incorrect? I didn't say that it comes in fits and starts, I said that one event (meeting their Shadow) happens during the course of the story and that's the only thing that changes the characters. How is Naoto, Chie, Yukiko, Kanji or whoever else (minus Teddie) different from after they faced their Shadow compared to how they are at the end of the game?

And I don't get the flat or dull point. If we're talking character depth, then what makes Teddie Yukiko any more remarkable than them?

Edit: Actually, strike Teddie, since he's one of the characters I'd say actually grows during the course of the whole story (heh, maybe in part because his Social Link is forced).

On the first point, I was talking about your earlier point--that there are two versions of the characters--pre-Shadow and post-Shadow. I will readily admit they don't change much after that. But, like I said earlier, that's not really a whole lot different from how many P3 characters are developed (again, outside of Junpei, Yukari, and Mitsuru).

And hey, no fair switching Teddie out for the weakest P4 party member. Yukiko is as flat a board as they come in P4. But even she has some dumb and forced personality quirks that I would put her above one track characters like Akihiko (training and I guess he's bad with girls?) and Ken (I don't even know).

That said, I don't really want to get into a whole thing of a back and forth of extreme scrutiny over minor character quirks here. I don't really have much more to say.

 

[kiriin]

Koro is sorta odd. I mean he's still a dog, but he develops a personality over the social links. He's lonely, he's sad, but also he's very much in need of knowing that the team really cares about him. It's less pronounced, but Koromaru is also an infinitely better Social Link than that fucking Fox in P4.

Wouldn't said it his slink had major development and depth but it was quite adorable and fun. It the same reason I enjoy the p3p slink. But again they did actually went back revise and made changes to the system.

 

[Red The Hunter]

I found this version of Shiva from the P1/P2 days

I like his design, though the arms....???

 

[Meia]

I'm kind of split on P4's social link method. On one hand I do like how the party has a bigger focus. On the other hand, their social links are kind of oddly forgotten about in the story as a whole. Especially Yosuke, Dojima, and Nanako, who all seem to take two steps forward in their social links, then the plot rolls around and they take one step back.

Yeah, there are positive and negatives to both approaches, which is somewhat interesting.


In Persona 3, the character's whole growth is mostly tied into the story. This makes the story have more of a punch with the character's themselves, but really devalues their social links. FES had the problem of each female link being romantic, so half of them devolved into "SENPAI NOTICED ME! ^_^" Funnily enough, this is part of the reason why Junpei's P3P link is one of the strongest in the series, as it's non romantic so just focuses on him as a person. The other exception to this is Yukari, as I still think her relationship is "canon"(as much as some loathe the use of the word), and makes sense for her character growth as well(especially with the Answer thrown in). I don't mind this method, but as was said, you don't form as strong of an attachment to some characters unless you really resonate with them or you're good at reading between the lines.


In Persona 4, the growth is tied to first their introduction into the story proper, and then their social links. It's almost a reverse of 3's system in this way, so many think it doesn't have much to do with the overall story since it happens first. Their shadow battles are them accepting that they have problems, and then the social link is them coming to grips with the problems. Of course, the problem inherent with this approach is that they're purely optional, so they have to be kept somewhat "hands-off" in terms of the story. Still, it didn't need to be as much as it was either(P4 SPOILER)

Spoiler

I still say the most jarring thing to me was Nanako being kidnapped, and even when she's rescued, the MC comes home to an empty house every night while the rest of the cast does their own thing. They do such a good job of making everyone friends, that such a thing is kind of a massive disconnect.

I really hope P5 does have a mixing of the best of both systems. They need to realize that it's ok for a player to miss a scene if they don't have a specific flag marked off from gameplay, and it's also ok to have a scene play out very slightly differently(this could even be done with an alternate few lines of dialogue) depending on the choices you've made. P3 had this with

Spoiler

the Chidori revival

, and P4 kept it mostly relegated to fun social scenes with people(done especially in Golden a few times with romantic events where the whole cast is aware of what's happening). I really want more of this type of thing in P5, and to have it be more of a part of the story.

 

[Persona7]

WOO HOO CHIE CHAN

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

I found this version of Shiva from the P1/P2 days

I like his design, though the arms....???

So fucking 90's hahaha

 

[Trigger]

I found this version of Shiva from the P1/P2 days

I like his design, though the arms....???

The whole design is just awful.

Awful.

 

[Ljrivarola]

I just got home and I found a loooooooot of interesting opinions to read. I love PersonaGAF <3

Anyway, it seems like I really need to play P3P, because the fact that most of your party members are not available as Social Links always bugged me. I mean, you sleep under the same roof as Junpei but YOU HAVE to talk to the random guy from your class who talked to you on your first day of school (and the one that later tells you about Nozomi, another awful Social Link). Then again, that maybe says something about Makoto as a person...

I also hated that you need to romance pretty much every girl to reach rank 10. Is it the same for the FemMC or is it optional?

I really hope P5 does have a mixing of the best of both systems. They need to realize that it's ok for a player to miss a scene if they don't have a specific flag marked off from gameplay, and it's also ok to have a scene play out very slightly differently(this could even be done with an alternate few lines of dialogue) depending on the choices you've made.

I couldn't have said it better.



I love the fact that one guy came here looking for help and we end up discussing Social Links in such a cool way.

 

[PK Gaming]

P3 actually has character development, with several moments like the one I posted above. In P4, the characters have two phases: how they are before they face their Shadow, and how they are for the rest of the game afterwards. There isn't much of an arc there, while P3 has the freedom to flesh out the characters as the game progresses naturally because it's not restricted to optional Social Link scenes.

I don't think this is a slight against P4, personally. I appreciate the way P4 develops its characters, because it's analogous to how people develop in real life. The way I see it, people don't really change immediately. It's a gradual process that can take a long time to finish. Even if we do change, it doesn't necessarily mean it's complete change, or even a permanent one. It's absolutely possible to fall back into our old routines, and P4 does a good job of demonstrating that. Once the P4 characters confront their shadows, it's a start of a long journey towards self improvement that doesn't necessarily finish itself by the end of P4 (or their social links, for that matter).

Social links contain the bulk of the character development, but I don't think they're the end all be all for character development. Chie for example, is roughly the same person in both the main story and her s.link. S.link Chie obviously has a better understanding of herself, but they mostly hit the same beats in terms of overall character (ie: they're both incredible compassionate and protective of their friends). It's not something she needs to grow into, because at her core, she's always been that way. Rise isn't that much different either; her social link deals with her identity crisis which is briefly touched upon in the main story (but brushed aside due to the more pressing issues) but in terms of who she is at her core, she's the same. I don't think she's a character that needed to change significantly either. Don't get me wrong, the social links do a lot for each of the characters, but I don't they're the only source for character development. Imo, Kanji is the only character in P4 who tremendously benefits from his social link (and side content in general). He doesn't really change after his shadow confrontation in the main story. In fact, he outright regresses during the beauty pagent. "Make me a man, damnit!" Ugh.

That said, there are characters who do change by the end of P4. Yosuke spends most of the game getting over his insecurities, even after confronting his Shadow. There's definitely a natural progression, as he becomes more caring and responsible, and less selfish as the game progresses. He starts out as a vigilante who wants to solve the case for glory, but then changes into a person who genuinely wants to protect the people of Inaba. He's selfish and self-centered at first, by the end, he cares about other people to a point where

Spoiler

he panics when Teddie goes missing, and goes absolutely livid when Nanako dies. Not just because of Nanako herself mind you, but mainly because of how it affected Yu.

At first, he's only concerned with solving the case because it would make him a hero, but by the end, he genuinely wants to protect the people of Inaba. Yosuke is mostly remembered for being that tactless guy who constantly indulges in stupid antics, but those aspects of his personality that are integral his character, and I don't think he'll grow out of being that person any time. So in a way, he changes a lot but he doesn't... and I don't that's necessarily a bad thing. He's still a teenager, and he's still go a lot of growing up to do. (Teddie and Yukiko changes too, but I don't feel like talking about them)

At the end of the day, they're just kids living out their highschool lives. I don't expect them to change significantly over the course of one year.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

The whole design is just awful.

Awful.

This one is awesome

is that previous one made specifically for old persona or was it just for old megaten games in general?

 

[Acid08]

I don't think this is a slight against P4, personally. I appreciate the way P4 develops its characters, because it's analogous to how people develop in real life. The way I see it, people don't really change immediately. It's a gradual process that can take a long time to finish. Even if we do change, it doesn't necessarily mean it's complete change, or even a permanent one. It's absolutely possible to fall back into our old routines, and P4 does a good job of demonstrating that. Once the P4 characters confront their shadows, it's a start of a long journey towards self improvement that doesn't necessarily finish itself by the end of P4 (or their social links, for that matter).

Social links contain the bulk of the character development, but I don't think they're the end all be all for character development. Chie for example, is roughly the same person in both the main story and her s.link. S.link Chie obviously has a better understanding of herself, but they mostly hit the same beats in terms of overall character (ie: they're both incredible compassionate and protective of their friends). It's not something she needs to grow into, because at her core, she's always been that way. Rise isn't that much different either; her social link deals with her identity crisis which is briefly touched upon in the main story (but brushed aside due to the more pressing issues) but in terms of who she is at her core, she's the same. I don't think she's a character that needed to change significantly either. Don't get me wrong, the social links do a lot for each of the characters, but I don't they're the only source for character development. Imo, Kanji is the only character in P4 who tremendously benefits from his social link (and side content in general). He doesn't really change after his shadow confrontation in the main story. In fact, he outright regresses during the beauty pagent. "Make me a man, damnit!" Ugh.

That said, there are characters who do change by the end of P4. Yosuke spends most of the game getting over his insecurities, even after confronting his Shadow. There's definitely a natural progression, as he becomes more caring and responsible, and less selfish as the game progresses. He starts out as a vigilante who wants to solve the case for glory, but then changes into a person who genuinely wants to protect the people of Inaba. He's selfish and self-centered at first, by the end, he cares about other people to a point where

Spoiler

he panics when Teddie goes missing, and goes absolutely livid when Nanako dies. Not just because of Nanako herself mind you, but mainly because of how it affected Yu.

At first, he's only concerned with solving the case because it would make him a hero, but by the end, he genuinely wants to protect the people of Inaba. Yosuke is mostly remembered for being that tactless guy who constantly indulges in stupid antics, but those aspects of his personality that are integral his character, and I don't think he'll grow out of being that person any time. So in a way, he changes a lot but he doesn't... and I don't that's necessarily a bad thing. He's still a teenager, and he's still go a lot of growing up to do. (Teddie and Yukiko changes too, but I don't feel like talking about them)

At the end of the day, they're just kids living out their highschool lives. I don't expect them to change significantly over the course of one year.

Well in high school people do often change rapidly over short amounts of time. And you're basically defending P4 for not developing characters more which I guess makes sense from your perspective. But it was satisfying to see a character like Dojima undergo significant change while the rest of the main cast kind of stands still for the most part.

 

[Squire]

The tease in that P4 newsletter wasn't for Spring of Birth OR Citizens Of Earth. Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Andrefpvs]

The tease in that P4 newsletter wasn't for Spring of Birth OR Citizens Of Earth. Hmmmmmmmmm.

My curiosity has been piqued.

 

[buddha0991]

This one is awesome

is that previous one made specifically for old persona or was it just for old megaten games in general?

Here is how he looked in the old old Megaten games. The one that was linked above yours is Persona 1 only.

 

[Red The Hunter]

This one is awesome

is that previous one made specifically for old persona or was it just for old megaten games in general?

Specifically for Persona, because I've never seen that design in other game before or after P1/P2.

The only other designs of Shiva I've seen is the one from the SNES SMT games

And for Devil Children

 

[Caladrius]

I like the SMT II versions of Shiva and Vishnu better than the later ones. Not exactly sure why.

 

[Trigger]

The tease in that P4 newsletter wasn't for Spring of Birth OR Citizens Of Earth. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Persona Kart is coming.

 

[PK Gaming]

Well in high school people do often change rapidly over short amounts of time.

People go through erratic and temporary changes are all of the time in high school, but meaningful and lasting changes? It's anecdotal, but I don't think I've met many people who've changed significantly. High school is a pretty stressful and confusing time. You're too busy dealing with shit, and there's no time to sit down and really think about who you are and what your place in the world is.

And you're basically defending P4 for not developing characters more which I guess makes sense from your perspective. But it was satisfying to see a character like Dojima undergo significant change while the rest of the main cast kind of stands still for the most part.

No. I'm defending P4 characters for not significantly changing by the end of the main game. I'm not even sure what you're implying; if you want character development, play through their social links. That's what they're for.

 

[Gazoinks]

Persona Kart is coming.

I would buy that with the force of a thousand suns.

 

[buddha0991]

I like the SMT II versions of Shiva and Vishnu better than the later ones. Not exactly sure why.

That Shiva is also used in Devil Survivor 1 and 2

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Persona Kart is coming.

It's actually Rock Band: Shin Megami Tensei

 

[FluxWaveZ]

At the end of the day, they're just kids living out their highschool lives. I don't expect them to change significantly over the course of one year.

I agree with most of what you're saying and it made me realize that sure, the main character arcs in P4 are of a different nature than those in P3 because of the types of challenges they face. The P3 cast have gone through some fucked up stuff compared to the P4 cast, and that's reflected in how they grow as characters. The P4 cast, though, are mostly "regular" teenagers who have, for the most part, had regular lives until the Inaba murders, so I suppose dramatically changing their behavior in a short period of time would be relatively inappropriate.

Still, this means that the preference on how the characters develop is subjective, and I personally preferred how the P3 characters grew. For Junpei in Persona 3, I started out being rather indifferent to Junpei, to then hating him to then thinking he was awesome. Aigis was bordering on annoying, until she becomes great near the very end of The Journey, which continues in The Answer and in P4A.

In Persona 4, I had pretty much the same opinion of a character after they join the main party until the end. Neither way is objectively superior, but I like it when a character's perspective on the world will alter significantly and realistically throughout the course of a story. Like Acid pointed out, part of what makes Dojima such a good character is how he grows as a person from the beginning of P4 until the end.

This makes me think that part of the reason I was temporarily disappointed that (Persona 4 Spoilers)

Spoiler

Nanako did not remain dead

back when I first played P4 was because I was intrigued to see how the lasting effects on the main characters would have been had it happened differently.

Edit: Also, I can't get over how the great character resolution moments in Persona 3 are shuffled into lame S. Link level 10 moments. Those were utterly fantastic in the previous game, and I'm inclined to say the way P4 handled it was an objective step back, though maybe a necessary compromise because of the differences in how the characters developed.

The tease in that P4 newsletter wasn't for Spring of Birth OR Citizens Of Earth. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Maybe it was just about the Aniplex USA localization of P3M? Seeing how they handle their hints, I'd say it has a good chance of being Persona related, but not too sure what else they'd have to say on that front other than a release date or something.

 

[cjkeats]

The tease in that P4 newsletter wasn't for Spring of Birth OR Citizens Of Earth. Hmmmmmmmmm.

There's probably just more PS2 classics coming. They said last year that the PS2 emulation wasn't up to snuff for some of the PS2 games, including Raidou. It seems to be fine now though, so I say SMT3, Raidou 2, and maybe even DDS are incoming.

 

[Sophia]

Edit: Also, I can't get over how the great character resolution moments in Persona 3 are shuffled into lame S. Link level 10 moments. Those were utterly fantastic in the previous game, and I'm inclined to say the way P4 handled it was an objective step back, though maybe a necessary compromise because of the differences in how the characters developed.

I feel like I'm going to be a bit biased saying this, but this particular resolution was my favorite. Specifically, Mitsuru's dialogue is really amazing. (P3 spoilers in the video yo!)

Yukari has a really powerful one too.

 

[hipsterpants]

I think the major character development should take place in the main story, with S. Links serving to further expand on the character rather to than to reach an "end" to their character growth. By not tying the S. Link character development with the main story, you run in to issues with consistency (this really bugs me when it comes to romantic relationships in the game).

If I'm not mistaken this is what happens with many of the SEES S. Links in P3P, which I'm guessing to be a good sign for development in P5.

 

[Acid08]

People go through erratic and temporary changes are all of the time in high school, but meaningful and lasting changes? It's anecdotal, but I don't think I've met many people who've changed significantly. High school is a pretty stressful and confusing time. You're too busy dealing with shit, and there's no time to sit down and really think about who you are and what your place in the world is.


No. I'm defending P4 characters for not significantly changing by the end of the main game. I'm not even sure what you're implying; if you want character development, play through their social links. That's what they're for.

You'd think a wild ass adventure like the one in P4 would enact some meaningful changes in the main cast. Saying "well they're high school kids" as an excuse for minimal development doesn't sit well. The epilogue at least attempts to show some of the changes they go through, even if they're mostly superficial.

And my point is that the slinks are fine but by themselves don't grow the characters enough. When the slinks and story scenes work with each other, like they do with Dojima, it's much more impactful. His social link and story events greatly enhance his character. Whereas the rest, not so much. I hope in P5 they manage to meld the two together more.

 

[hao chi]

It's actually Rock Band: Shin Megami Tensei

You joke, but I'd do horrible things to get a Theatrhythm-style Persona or Megaten game.

 

[PK Gaming]

You'd think a wild ass adventure like the one in P4 would enact some meaningful changes in the main cast. Saying "well they're high school kids" as an excuse for minimal development doesn't sit well. The epilogue at least attempts to show some of the changes they go through, even if they're mostly superficial.

And my point is that the slinks are fine but by themselves don't grow the characters enough. When the slinks and story scenes work with each other, like they do with Dojima, it's much more impactful. His social link and story events greatly enhance his character. Whereas the rest, not so much. I hope in P5 they manage to meld the two together more.

The argument that the P4 characters aren't developed doesn't sit right with me at all. They're fully fleshed out and defined by distinctive personality traits. Basically, they're fully developed characters that don't go through significantly more development throughout the game. They've lived their entire lives as ordinary teenagers, so a significant change in temperament would be jarring. In fact, I'd posit that their "wild ass adventure" would prevent them from growing as people, since its a problem they're singular focused on. (though confronting their shadow was a huge deal). Really, i'm not sure how you'd have them change as characters. Because they "do" change, but in a natural, subtle way (unlike in P3, due to the reasons listed by Flux)

Your second point is entirely subjective. I personally think that each of the main casts social links enhance them to a suitable degree (and in Kanji's case, its nearly fucking mandatory for his character)

 

[Red The Hunter]

I like the SMT II versions of Shiva and Vishnu better than the later ones. Not exactly sure why.

Maybe it's because their simple and not over designed, while I do like the newer version of Shiva and Vishnu, I do think that some of things there in the design are a bit much.

Shiva and Vishnu are some of my favorites , but I would still say that my favorite demon from the SMT series is still the President of Hell, Ose...

 

[Gazoinks]

Maybe it's because their simple and not over designed, while I do like the newer version of Shiva and Vishnu, I do think that some of things there in the design are a bit much.

Shiva and Vishnu are some of my favorites , but I would still say that my favorite demon from the SMT series is still the President of Hell, Ose...

Ose's metal diaper is one of the best things ever.

 

[Vox Chaotica]

You joke, but I'd do horrible things to get a Theatrhythm-style Persona or Megaten game.

What about Dancing All Night? :V

 

[FluxWaveZ]

What about Dancing All Night? :V

What?

 

[Red The Hunter]

What about Dancing All Night? :V

That's just Persona music and while I love Persona music, it would be a lot of fun to jam out to some SMT music from around the whole franchise.
Ginza anyone

Or

Hari hara

 

[Vox Chaotica]

What?

How could you forget something so MEGIDOLAON CUTE.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

How could you forget something so MEGIDOLAON CUTE.

Through great strength of will.

I wish I could be more excited for that game...

 

[hao chi]

What about Dancing All Night? :V

I'm interested in Dancing All Night for the Persona music alone, but I don't know how it plays yet so I'm not too hyped at the moment (I don't know if they've revealed that much or not, I haven't really looked into it).

I already know I love Theatrhythm's gameplay though, and being able to create a party of

Spoiler

waifus

characters and give them different abilities would be great.

 

[Gazoinks]

How could you forget something so MEGIDOLAON CUTE.

Going to be so sad when whoever that is gets replaced.