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Persona Community Thread |OT5| Pull up a chair! [NO PQ OR P4U SPOILERS!]

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abrack08

Member
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.


Exactly how I feel. I thought Yosuke was pretty relatable. Maybe it was growing up in Texas, but I knew a LOT of Yosuke's in high school and it's not that different from how I might have acted then. Yosuke is one of my favorite characters


Okay? And a well written, unlikeable character doesn't automatically deserve any more merits if you don't like them.
Why not? They're well written... That's worth merit. I didn't much like Walter White in Breaking Bad but he was a fantastic character.
 
I got bored, so I drew the best character in the game. Enjoy.

GgC1WVTl.png

Very nice Reanimation.
 

Acid08

Banned
Why not? They're well written... That's worth merit. I didn't much like Walter White in Breaking Bad but he was a fantastic character.
I'm not talking merit as a character, but his merit to someone personally. I already admitted that he's well written but that doesn't earn any points with me because I hate the things that he says. Being a well written idiot means about the same to me as being a poorly written idiot, personally. Doesn't help me enjoy him any more.
 
I don't think anyone's arguing that you've got to appreciate him more just because he's well-written. I know for a fact I'd like Persona 4 more without him in the game.

I've resisted chiming in on this discussion a couple times this afternoon just because it gets so ugly sometimes. But hey, that's a good idea for an episode if you folks wan to do it.

Sure, I'd love to. Maybe people just need a good live moderator. :p
 

kewlmyc

Member
I've resisted chiming in on this discussion a couple times this afternoon just because it gets so ugly sometimes. But hey, that's a good idea for an episode if you folks wan to do it.

I just want to see the chaos if you invite the right people on.
 

CorvoSol

Member
That's my experience as well. At the end of the game, I felt Yosuke was one of the characters I could relate to the most if not the character. I've always said that, too.

Let's be clear: The only thing I'm bullish on is the usage of "homophobic" and people downplaying it. Yosuke fits the description almost perfectly. But I love the character myself and I can't make that clear enough.

I think Yosuke's homophobia though, again, stems from him being a 17 year old raised in a culture that could stand to really fix the way it acts toward homosexuals. I wouldn't quite say that it's what defines Yosuke's interactions with Kanji, though it is definitely the stand out part of it. I think Yosuke's real beef is that Yosuke wants to sort of have time just between him and Yu, and Kanji kinda bunks that angle at times. Like, I almost feel the real reason Yosuke picks on Kanji is because Yosuke is sort of the middle brother and Kanji is the little brother and both sorta are vying for big bro Yu's attention.

I think what we really lack, though is time Yosuke spends just with Kanji. He spends alone time with Yu and with Teddie, but not really Kanji, so their relationship isn't as solid. I feel like you could say that's due to Yosuke's irrational, stupid teenage fear of catchin' the gay from Kanji, but it could also be that Kanji himself tends to spend more time with Rise and Teddie than anybody else. Like, inside the group there are sorta sub groups.

And I want to point out that over the course of the game Yosuke is increasingly less averse toward Kanji. In the absence of Yu, I imagine that Kanji and Yosuke will naturally sorta gravitate to one another in their mutual need of a bro.

Yea I feel that way about him sort of too

Heh, thanks!

Corvo's pretty much spot-on. I think Yosuke is a very well-realised character. I'm not a fan, but he's absolutely one of the more realistic teenaged characters I've seen in a game.

Yeah, I think the point of Yosuke is that he's supposed to sorta embody the awkward, petty, small-minded side of being a teenage boy early on and sorta grow out of that as it goes on. I mean shoot, his Shadow Self is basically just a disaffected teenage brat.

Well said.

I think the majority of the people posting in this thread could definitely relate to Yosuke at some point in their lives. At the very least, I could empathize with that kind of tactlessness all too well, unfortunately.

I think the aspect that balances out Yosuke's shittiness is really that he's aware of it and wants to get past it but often makes it worse for himself. Like, Yosuke's "thirst" sorta encapsulates it because he is perfectly capable of being a sweet, kind guy like we saw in P4A but oftentimes he lets his mouth run too much. In addition to being the "ideas guy" (the guy who has all the best ideas for what the group should do as a group), I think one of Yosuke's greatest strengths is that he's very good at becoming nonchalant about shit after awhile.

Like, I kinda feel like the addition of Teddie to the cast was perfect for Yosuke, because it gave someone who was almost undeniably more awkward and more brash than Yosuke who Yosuke could then sort of see and go "damn well I better not do that." Because people focus a shitton on how "Yosuke doesn't accept that Kanji is gay!" but people tend to skip over just how chill Yosuke ultimately is that Teddie is an inhuman embodiment of the human subconscious or whatever. His failings are kinda balanced by the moments when his true quality shines through.

How I feel about him. Good shit, CS.

kurtnodding.gif


Could not have said it better myself, Yosuke is indeed pretty great.

Heh, thanks.

Exactly how I feel. I thought Yosuke was pretty relatable. Maybe it was growing up in Texas, but I knew a LOT of Yosuke's in high school and it's not that different from how I might have acted then. Yosuke is one of my favorite characters

Oh definitely. It's also why I try not to be hard on people I meet like this now, because I realize I was that way once, and that people can change and be better than their petty, small-minded, awkward teenage selves.
 
I've resisted chiming in on this discussion a couple times this afternoon just because it gets so ugly sometimes. But hey, that's a good idea for an episode if you folks wan to do it.

Speaking of which, what are your plans for future episodes? You guys have covered practically everything.
 
Were at this part of the PersonaGAF cycle huh?

...that means that next were going to have a waifu war

CHIE IS THE BEST ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE SHOULD BE TRIED FOR TREASON
 
I would have liked Yosuke better if the game hadn't forced/told me to become best bros with him. I could leave the Magician S. Link at rank 1 yet I'm apparently still closer to him than than a girl that's at max link.

Unrelated to the conversation at hand but Nocturne makes the shit combat of P4 look even more shitty.
 

Squire

Banned
I think Yosuke's homophobia though, again, stems from him being a 17 year old raised in a culture that could stand to really fix the way it acts toward homosexuals. I wouldn't quite say that it's what defines Yosuke's interactions with Kanji, though it is definitely the stand out part of it. I think Yosuke's real beef is that Yosuke wants to sort of have time just between him and Yu, and Kanji kinda bunks that angle at times. Like, I almost feel the real reason Yosuke picks on Kanji is because Yosuke is sort of the middle brother and Kanji is the little brother and both sorta are vying for big bro Yu's attention.

I think what we really lack, though is time Yosuke spends just with Kanji. He spends alone time with Yu and with Teddie, but not really Kanji, so their relationship isn't as solid. I feel like you could say that's due to Yosuke's irrational, stupid teenage fear of catchin' the gay from Kanji, but it could also be that Kanji himself tends to spend more time with Rise and Teddie than anybody else. Like, inside the group there are sorta sub groups.

And I want to point out that over the course of the game Yosuke is increasingly less averse toward Kanji. In the absence of Yu, I imagine that Kanji and Yosuke will naturally sorta gravitate to one another in their mutual need of a bro.

Heh, thanks!

Yeah, I think the point of Yosuke is that he's supposed to sorta embody the awkward, petty, small-minded side of being a teenage boy early on and sorta grow out of that as it goes on. I mean shoot, his Shadow Self is basically just a disaffected teenage brat.

I think the aspect that balances out Yosuke's shittiness is really that he's aware of it and wants to get past it but often makes it worse for himself. Like, Yosuke's "thirst" sorta encapsulates it because he is perfectly capable of being a sweet, kind guy like we saw in P4A but oftentimes he lets his mouth run too much. In addition to being the "ideas guy" (the guy who has all the best ideas for what the group should do as a group), I think one of Yosuke's greatest strengths is that he's very good at becoming nonchalant about shit after awhile.

Like, I kinda feel like the addition of Teddie to the cast was perfect for Yosuke, because it gave someone who was almost undeniably more awkward and more brash than Yosuke who Yosuke could then sort of see and go "damn well I better not do that." Because people focus a shitton on how "Yosuke doesn't accept that Kanji is gay!" but people tend to skip over just how chill Yosuke ultimately is that Teddie is an inhuman embodiment of the human subconscious or whatever. His failings are kinda balanced by the moments when his true quality shines through.

Heh, thanks.

Oh definitely. It's also why I try not to be hard on people I meet like this now, because I realize I was that way once, and that people can change and be better than their petty, small-minded, awkward teenage selves.

I agree with all of that! I've said it before more or less, but what always happens when this comes up is Yo is called a homophobe and there's this sort of senseless push back.

Yosuke's a great character. I think his flaws make him more relatable an interesting, but they are there. It's important not to deny or sugarcoat them because that takes away from how great he is (to me, anyway).

Again, I agree with you completely. The circumstances are clear.
 

PK Gaming

Member
I think Yosuke's homophobia though, again, stems from him being a 17 year old raised in a culture that could stand to really fix the way it acts toward homosexuals. I wouldn't quite say that it's what defines Yosuke's interactions with Kanji, though it is definitely the stand out part of it. I think Yosuke's real beef is that Yosuke wants to sort of have time just between him and Yu, and Kanji kinda bunks that angle at times. Like, I almost feel the real reason Yosuke picks on Kanji is because Yosuke is sort of the middle brother and Kanji is the little brother and both sorta are vying for big bro Yu's attention

Oh ho, that's an interesting angle I haven't considered. Yeah in retrospect, Yosuke's actually lashed out at Kanji for showing up at okina, and again when he screwed up during the beach event (though they do have sort of a heart 2 heart at the end). He probably saw him as a nuisance for most of the game (I mean nobody likes a "kid" that tags along)

And I want to point out that over the course of the game Yosuke is increasingly less averse toward Kanji. In the absence of Yu, I imagine that Kanji and Yosuke will naturally sorta gravitate to one another in their mutual need of a bro.

Hell, this is actually supported by Arena. Kanji was the 2nd person that Yosuke considered calling after Chie's warning. Yosuke also lamented the fact that the Kanji's been harshly judged in the past and outright praised him for being a "hardworking, honest guy." Progress!

I advise going after PK Gaming first. He totally calls other people's waifus sluts.

5%28209%29.png
 

Levito

Banned
I just want to see the chaos if you invite the right people on.

If there was a fight or stupid arguments, I wouldn't upload it. Plain and simple, though in a skype call people generally aren't as willing to be shits. :p


How about you, Inorigo, and Coldman? There can be a fourth too, I really only have to be there to record it.
 
Sure, that sounds good to me. A fourth would probably be welcome though, seeing as me and Inorigo seem to share a lot of opinions about the character. Like you say, I don't think anyone is going to act like a dick over a Skype call so some dissenting opinions would be nice. :p

Either way I'm down.
 

Busaiku

Member
I can't remember how long it took to be able to move around freely in Tartarus/Iwatodai in Persona 3, but it was a lot shorter than Persona 4, right?
 

kewlmyc

Member
If there was a fight or stupid arguments, I wouldn't upload it. Plain and simple, though in a skype call people generally aren't as willing to be shits. :p


How about you, Inorigo, and Coldman? There can be a fourth too, I really only have to be there to record it.

I doubt I'll have anything interesting to say about the subject to begin with. I mostly want to listen to it.

I will be on it if no one else wants to though.
 

Squire

Banned
If there was a fight or stupid arguments, I wouldn't upload it. Plain and simple, though in a skype call people generally aren't as willing to be shits. :p


How about you, Inorigo, and Coldman? There can be a fourth too, I really only have to be there to record it.

Sure, that sounds good to me. A fourth would probably be welcome though, seeing as me and Inorigo seem to share a lot of opinions about the character. Like you say, I don't think anyone is going to act like a dick over a Skype call so some dissenting opinions would be nice. :p

Either way I'm down.

I'm all in. A fourth chair would be excellent as well.

PK is the real slut here. Dude changes his avatar like twice a week.

I hope this is headed for in-joke status.
 

Jintor

Member
I want to get in on the episode where you just read out fan rage posts from across the internet.

I want to do silly voices.
 
I'm not talking merit as a character, but his merit to someone personally. I already admitted that he's well written but that doesn't earn any points with me because I hate the things that he says. Being a well written idiot means about the same to me as being a poorly written idiot, personally. Doesn't help me enjoy him any more.

Hmm...Well do you have favorite villains? Like, for all intents and purposes bad guys are meant to be hated. But how an antagonist of a story is crafted, can make or break a story.

It seems less obvious to critique supporting characters that way...but it's really the same.
 

Jintor

Member
I spent the day thinking about how Soejima conceived Yosuke as a pretty boy. I never really got that sense at all!

***
Yosuke: I'm good looking and pretty likable right?
Yu: That's a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
Chie: I mean, ya, you're good looking enough to at least get them to hang out with you, but I don't know if it's enough for people to ignore all your flaws.
Yukiko: Is that even possible Chie? To be so good looking that someone could actually overlook Yosuke... being Yosuke?
Yosuke: (pained expression)
Yukiko: Oh, no offense!

Fuck man P4 dialogue can be so good sometimes
 

Mdesilva

Member
I think Yosuke's homophobia though, again, stems from him being a 17 year old raised in a culture that could stand to really fix the way it acts toward homosexuals. I wouldn't quite say that it's what defines Yosuke's interactions with Kanji, though it is definitely the stand out part of it. I think Yosuke's real beef is that Yosuke wants to sort of have time just between him and Yu, and Kanji kinda bunks that angle at times. Like, I almost feel the real reason Yosuke picks on Kanji is because Yosuke is sort of the middle brother and Kanji is the little brother and both sorta are vying for big bro Yu's attention.
I think it's mostly because Yosuke's the only straight male character with a voice who goes to school (not including Teddie because he's clueless) so they wanted him to embody the opinion an average 17 year old kid would have on Kanji's sexuality. Whether this philosophy is right or wrong is beside the point, I'm just saying why I think they made that part of his character.
 

arue

Member
Am I the only person here who uses white NeoGAF theme? I can't get used to the black one, it just looks weird to me ._.
 
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