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Persona Community Thread |OT5| Pull up a chair! [NO PQ OR P4U SPOILERS!]

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S

Squire

Banned
Green Mamba said:
I think it's worth noting that a character being bigoted in some way doesn't necessarily make them a bad character--just not particularly likeable, which not every character needs to be. That said, I do think that's what they were trying with Yosuke (likeable for the most part), and I think they dropped the ball on that account.
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I didn't think it was possible, but for once, I could not agree with you more.

Is this is it? The singularity? The apocalypse? The heat death of the universe?
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Why the hell is there so many unused voice clips in P4? Fair enough, most of them are for lines that got cut from the final script, but lots of them are still in the game... just not voiced? So strange.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Hot Coldman said:
Why the hell is there so many unused voice clips in P4? Fair enough, most of them are for lines that got cut from the final script, but lots of them are still in the game... just not voiced? So strange.
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There's gotta be at least an hour of unused dialogue. Maybe more. That's not even accounting for the implications of said dialogue either. o_O;
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Sophia said:
I wish Yosuke's romantic social link hadn't been removed. Not because I want a homosexual representation, but because it would have been a legitimately good pairing. Like, I'd consider that the canonical pairing if it was still in the game.
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Yeah it would been fantastic. Yu and Yosuke have excellent chemistry together.
Hot Coldman said:
I find it so strange that there was a Yosuke romance branch and not a Kanji one. Ahahaha.
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Super irony.

EDIT:

Yukiko - "You haven't hung out with Yosuke-kun lately..."
Yukiko - "Shouldn't you talk to him? I think he's waiting for you... Maybe."

THEY FUCKED UP BY NOT PUTTING THIS IN THE GAME
 
B

buddha0991

Member
I dunno, maybe they didn't succeed with some of you, but he has a nickname around the net, Brosuke, so they must have succeeded on some level.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Yosuke might've been even better received if they had left his romance path in. Because then he would've been closeted. It gives worthwhile context to his treatment of Kanji and balances his character out so that that behavior makes sense as opposed to just being Ill-placed comedy.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
You know, P4 really would have been even better if they left in literally all the S.Link stuff they cut. Especially the things from P3.

buddha0991 said:
I dunno, maybe they didn't succeed with some of you, but he has a nickname around the net, Brosuke, so they must have succeeded on some level.
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that's not necessarily a positive name
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Inorigo said:
Yosuke might've been even better received if they had left his romance path in. Because then he would've been closeted. It gives worthwhile context to his treatment of Kanji and balances his character out so that that behavior makes sense as opposed to just being Ill-placed comedy.
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For sure. I've always wondered why they backed out...

Time constraints? Pressure from the higher ups? Disagreements? It bothers me because Yosuke would have been a way better "gay" representation than Kanji*.
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Inorigo said:
Yosuke might've been even better received if they had left his romance path in. Because then he would've been closeted. It gives worthwhile context to his treatment of Kanji and balances his character out so that that behavior makes sense as opposed to just being Ill-placed comedy.
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I only agree with this if that was what they were going with originally. Thing is though, he may not treat Kanji the way he does because he is closeted or was intended to...He treats EVERYONE like this, he takes someone's most obvious flaw or hang up and picks at it for shits and giggles. Kanji's just happens to be his masculinity.
 
S

Squire

Banned
PK Gaming said:
For sure. I've always wondered why they backed out...

Time constraints? Pressure from the higher ups? Disagreements? It bothers me because Yosuke would have been a way better "gay" representation than Kanji*.
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We'll never know. But it would've been such a brilliant subversion.

buddha0991 said:
I only agree with this if that was what they were going with originally. Thing is though, he may not treat Kanji the way he does because he is closeted or was intended to...He treats EVERYONE like this, he takes someone's most obvious flaw or hang up and picks at it for shits and giggles. Kanji's just happens to be his masculinity.
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No he doesn't. Yosuke doesn't treat any of the other characters like Kanji. Yo rides Kanji. Come on, man.
 
C

Caladrius

Member
PK Gaming said:
For sure. I've always wondered why they backed out...

Time constraints? Pressure from the higher ups? Disagreements? It bothers me because Yosuke would have been a way better "gay" representation than Kanji*.
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I think Persona 4 had a tight development schedule. (<2 years)

I unfortunately have no way to verify this though. I thought I had heard it somewhere.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
buddha0991 said:
I only agree with this if that was what they were going with originally. Thing is though, he may not treat Kanji the way he does because he is closeted or was intended to...He treats EVERYONE like this, he takes someone's most obvious flaw or hang up and picks at it for shits and giggles. Kanji's just happens to be his masculinity.
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I don't think that part of his character relates to his sexuality. He could still be bisexual and totally rip on everyone's sore sports. (There's a distinction here between Kanji's masculinity (which is used to rile/manipulate Kanji by multiple characters, notably Teddie) and his sexuality (which Yosuke addresses in a different, more wary/ignorant manner)).
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Inorigo said:
We'll never know. But it would've been such a brilliant subversion.



No he doesn't. Yosuke doesn't treat any of the other characters like Kanji. Yo rides Kanji. Come on, man.
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He does pick on Kanji more, because he is the only one that he can kind of get away with it and who reacts the biggest to it. Yukiko, Naoto and the others just blow him off or ignore it, and Chie actually hits him and such, Kanji just gets angry and threatens him but never actually hits him or anything. This is just what I think though.

Caladrius said:
I think Persona 4 had a tight development schedule. (<2 years)

I unfortunately have no way to verify this though. I thought I had heard it somewhere.
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I think a bigger problem than that is that P4 had absolutely no development document.

Hot Coldman said:
I don't think that part of his character relates to his sexuality. He could still be bisexual and totally rip on everyone's sore sports. (There's a distinction here between Kanji's masculinity (which is used to rile/manipulate Kanji by multiple characters, notably Teddie) and his sexuality (which Yosuke addresses in a different, more wary/ignorant manner)).
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I do kind of agree with this.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Inorigo said:
We'll never know. But it would've been such a brilliant subversion.
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Damn shame :(

Oh well, i'll take solace in the fact that the developers dropped a ton of hints. (Like keeping the hugging flag for his social link. Supposedly, hugging is a super intimate thing in japan.

Hot Coldman said:
I don't think that part of his character relates to his sexuality. He could still be bisexual and totally rip on everyone's sore sports. (There's a distinction here between Kanji's masculinity (which is used to rile/manipulate Kanji by multiple characters, notably Teddie) and his sexuality (which Yosuke addresses in a different, more wary/ignorant manner)).
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This. There's an obvious divide here.
 
R

Reanimatoin

Member
I got bored, so I drew the best character in the game. Enjoy.

GgC1WVTl.png
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Hot Coldman said:
He was looking for ideas, so sure, go for it :p
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Will do.

CorvoSol said:
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.
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That's my experience as well. At the end of the game, I felt Yosuke was one of the characters I could relate to the most if not the character. I've always said that, too.

kewlmyc said:
Have you and Acid on it for the ultimate shitstorm.
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Heh. Acid hates him outright. I respect that, but I love Yosuke, for the reasons above.

Let's be clear: The only thing I'm bullish on is the usage of "homophobic" and people downplaying it. Yosuke fits the description almost perfectly. But I love the character myself and I can't make that clear enough.
 
B

buddha0991

Member
CorvoSol said:
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.
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Yea I feel that way about him sort of too
 
A

Acid08

Banned
Green Mamba said:
I think it's worth noting that a character being bigoted in some way doesn't necessarily make them a bad character--just not particularly likeable, which not every character needs to be. That said, I do think that's what they were trying with Yosuke (likeable for the most part), and I think they dropped the ball on that account.
Click to expand...
Yeah, agreed here. I usually make the mistake of saying Yosuke is a bad character, which he isn't, but man I hate that fucker. And in a game full of super likable characters he just stands out because he sucks so much. Especially because most of his stupidity is targeted towards Kanji, who is one of my favorites in the game. So is there really much of a difference between him being a bad character vs him being supremely unlikable? Because the outcome is the same to me.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Corvo's pretty much spot-on. I think Yosuke is a very well-realised character. I'm not a fan, but he's absolutely one of the more realistic teenaged characters I've seen in a game.
 
H

hipsterpants

Member
I actually really like the idea of a closeted Yosuke, especially now knowing originally you could date him. Gives a lot more depth to his character and it's a real shame they left that stuff out. I will give them credit that trying to make a "best friend" for a self-insert character is remarkably difficult, even if I don't think they did that great of a job for me personally.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
I'd be totally down for a Yosuke centered Slink.FM episode!

CorvoSol said:
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.
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Well said.

I think the majority of the people posting in this thread could definitely relate to Yosuke at some point in their lives. At the very least, I could empathize with that kind of tactlessness all too well, unfortunately.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
CorvoSol said:
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.
Click to expand...
How I feel about him. Good shit, CS.
 
H

hipsterpants

Member
Well I myself am pretty far removed from any of the fuckery that is Yosuke's personality, and I can't say that I was close friends with any Yosuke's in high school either.

Honestly the only relatable characters I found in the game were Yukiko and Kanji.
 
S

Swedesu

Member
CorvoSol said:
I at least, viewed Yosuke's mistreatment of Kanji's sexuality as him being 17. Not every teenager is Jesus Yu NaruChristmi, many are woefully stupid, rude, or ignorant. Yosuke's behavior toward this part of Kanji was something that made him that much more believable to me because when I was that age I was a somewhat ignorant shit toward gay classmates, too. I grew out of it soon after High School and I kinda expect that Yosuke will, too, because his bad behavior doesn't stem from hatred, but just a youthful dickishness. It's reprehensible, yes, but a deep seated evil it is not. Yosuke's the kind of guy who says dumb shit without thinking, yes, but he's also very aware of how much that sorta tarnishes him and is driven enough to want to overcome what a crappy guy he can be, I think. Which is why I think Yosuke's great, because he isn't, but he wants to be and uses that to better himself. As he gets to know Kanji more and is exposed to Yu's example, I expect it won't be a big deal.

I guess I'm just projecting myself onto him because I see a lot of myself in him, but like, if he is how I see him, the real world will set this ignorance of his to rights.
Click to expand...

kurtnodding.gif


Could not have said it better myself, Yosuke is indeed pretty great.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Acid08 said:
Yeah, agreed here. I usually make the mistake of saying Yosuke is a bad character, which he isn't, but man I hate that fucker. And in a game full of super likable characters he just stands out because he sucks so much. Especially because most of his stupidity is targeted towards Kanji, who is one of my favorites in the game. So is there really much of a difference between him being a bad character vs him being supremely unlikable? Because the outcome is the same to me.
Click to expand...

Some characters are bad because they're designed to be "likable."
 
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