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Persona Community Thread |OT5| Pull up a chair! [NO PQ OR P4U SPOILERS!]

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S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
Lunar15 said:
For some reason I agree with most of these points (I still like Yosuke though!) but this is still one of my favorite games of all time. Yes, even with the weird and kind of badly done murder mystery plot. It's just one of those games where the whole package is greater than the individual parts.

I will say though, I think a lot of people's enjoyment of P4 and P3 comes down to which one they've played first. I find that most people who played P3 first enjoy it more than P4 and vice versa.

Also, I really really like Yukiko too. I don't get why people say she's boring. I think her social link is one of the more relatable social links. I also agree that Kanji is the best character.
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Nah, I beat P3 first before 4 and I LOVE P4 like a thousand times more than P3. I know, thats the typical thing people argument about this things, that the first one you play or watch, is the thing you must like, but not always is true. For example, lots of people say that FFVII is a fan favourite becuase it's the first for so many people, but I actually played that one before 8 and 9 and my favourite is 9 without a doubt.
Not that I hate P3, is what it made me buy P4 for example. I really like some things about it, but Im not fan of some characters and the middle end of the story. In contrast I really like the majority of characters of P4 and the positivity it desprends on every corner.

LegionAgent said:
I literally just typed "persona 3 fanfic fuuka peanut" on Google and it appeared as first option, I read it and now I'm really debating myself whether or not to play P3 tonight, I'll probably do it anyways but it'll be weird for like, five minutes.
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Holy shit, just looked and the first paragraphs.
Its the same story as the famous spanish tv urban legend from like 10 or 15 years ago of Ricky Martin inside a closet waiting to give a surprise to a girl and the girl putting peanut butter and let her dog... well you know the rest.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
CorvoSol said:
Persona 1 Final thoughts

As in I've seen the ending and I'm not touching this video game again for a LONG ASS TIME.

Let's talk about the bad, or at least what I did not like first, shall we? Like the vile canned green beans we so quickly devour before turning to the edible portions of our dinner. Some of these are slimy and cold, some are merely tepid and mushy. None are hot and tasty.

First on our list is definitely Reiji. I don't HATE him, mind you, but he was an enormous letdown from every angle. He rarely spoke and when he did it was just some "Blah I love you guys but I'm not gonna show it" shit. I appreciate it, but frankly he somehow managed to feel even less involved in what was going on in the game than the main guy, whose personality was made up entirely by yours truly. In battle Reiji was fucking useless. He had terrible affinity with every Persona I ever did manage to create, and the ones he had acceptable affinity with had useless skills. He was mostly geared around dealing physical damage in a game where dealing physical damage is the worst option ever in battle. I wish I'd chosen Elly instead of him. What little he added to the SEBEC route was nifty, I suppose, but considering how thoroughly disappointing he was otherwise, it's baffling that you have to go through so many hoops just to hire the guy. That said, I do think that his backstory about the way his mother was treated is a fairly interesting tidbit that was handled mostly well. It's a shame that Reiji really didn't expand beyond shouting from the very back of the party "HEY YOUR DEAD DAD ABUSED MY MOM YOU BASTARD!" at Kandori every three dungeons or so.

The cast itself reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaally needed more time to develop, and I'm willing to say that Reiji falls mainly into this same problem, a problem I'm largely overlooking since this is, after all, an early PSX RPG. I only comment on him because I started over TWICE to recruit his Chibodee Crockett Cosplaying ass.

Next up is demon negotiation! It is a horrible piece of shit and I mean that in the most vitriolic, damning, violent, vehement, vicious, hateful, spiteful, petty, childish, cruel, mean-spirited way I possibly can convey it to you. To acquire new Personas in 3 and 4 I need only win a fight and draw a card in shuffle time. To acquire new Personas in 1, I have to win a completely random insane troll logic quiz game, have two separate levels be higher than the demon (by which I suppose I mean EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER MUST HAVE THESE LEVELS HIGHER TO RECRUIT A DEMON) and then have a higher level than the persona I am fusing before I can fuse it and then a higher persona level than the persona so I can equip it. Which is quite a fucking bit more work than winning a fight, drawing a card, and fusing away. And last I checked this was a game, not fucking work. And to complicate things, there's no compendium, so I cannot just rerecruit personas or spellcards the way you would in SMT4 or P3 and 4. That's all well and good, and I shouldn't fault this game for not having things that future games would have, except I cannot stock multiples of the same card. I can only ever have one card at a time, and a limited number at that, so if I ever did need another of that card I would have to go through that piece of shit conversation minigame again to acquire another one. Which is a horrible process whether there are Compendiums or not.

The encounter rate is terrible, but that's what I get for playing a PSX era RPG.

Boss battles are uniformly awful in this game, but let me take this one last moment to reiterate that the final battle in the game is the single worst final boss I have ever faced in any video game ever. I would sooner replay the final battle of Sonic 2006 than ever fight that fucking nonsense piece of shit waste of my goddamn time that fight was. I swear to God I'd have better chances of winning against KH's Mysterious Figure than that fight. If, after a full game's worth of playing the player reaches the final boss chamber with no difficulty whatsoever and yet cannot defeat the final boss even after applying cheatcodes to render himself invincible, there is a serious problem with your piece of shit boss design.

Now let's move on to what was good, shall we?

I love the OST in this game. In particular, the townmap song is quite catchy! The battle music and several other songs are, too. I've talked a lot about the pieces that reminded me of P4 today, too, and that's great in the best way. So hooray for you, Mr. Composer man! Unlike Mr. Boss Fight Designer Man, you are not a living piece of shit!

Nanjo, Maki, and Mark are great characters. In particular I love Mark. Definitely a proud sire to the likes of Junpei and Yosuke. Frankly I was kinda miffed that Maki fell in love with me, since without Mark I wouldn't've even known she existed. Mark was a truly stellar, honest, straightforward character and I found myself most sympathetic to him as the game progressed. Kandori was sort of so-so as a villain, but after the revelation that Maki herself was the problem, I stopped worrying about that.

One thing I'd like to point out. While I love this game's storyline. And I mean I really do love the game's plot, and how it all comes together as the archetype for Shadow Selves and Shadow World Dungeons that Persona 4 would employ in its plot and blah blah I love this game's plot a bunch you guys, but I do have one huge nitpick: It's not that Philemon or Igor are never really explained. It's Nyarlothep. As in, you beat the shit out of Kandori, then Nyarlothep possesses him, then vanishes. Except that this Nyarlothep character is never introduced and never heard from or explained after this fight. As a standalone, that's very unusual. Frankly, though, that's the only thing about the game's plot I disliked.

Well, that and that Persona 1 spends its first half rather empty. That said, I feel like Persona 1 would almost make for a great Hollywood style movie, because of the nice, compact feeling the plot has. The game still manages to not lack for memorable moments, however, which is very much so to its credit.

I should also add that I LOVED that the ending allowed the player to determine the fate of the protagonist. That, to me, is very much so the "make your own damn canon" that Persona fans ought to embrace. I don't have any problems with the way Atlus has forged Yu Narukami into a character, mind you, but for me, it should definitely always be about making your own canon around that silent protagonist. So I loved that.

Looking forward to Persona 2. I get that Megaten games being horrible difficult is a thing and all, but everybody and his mother has hyped this game's plot up nearly as much as Persona 3, so I have to at least experience it. Frankly P1 wasn't that hard until it decided to go batshit insane at the very last second.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that your P1P experience was abruptly cut short. That final boss was quite dumb (it's not even "challenging" but instead, it's lucked based nonsense). I only beat it because Fred's Ultimate Persona (Amon-Ra) has a move that deals severe damage to it (Hieroglyphin), which required me to grind like crazy.

I also wish you picked Elly. She was a strong character, and entertaining (and did I mention cute). I haven't used Reiji, so I didn't think I had a right to comment on him but, he does sound incredibly disappointing. What did you think of his
relationship with Kandori?

Your next paragraph makes me feel... ahh, quite vindicated. I'm glad you called out the demon negotiation system in such a way, because it really is terrible. I've often seen snide remarks from the old guard that it's "too hardcore" for the casual Persona crowd (not really from this thread mind you), but it really is a ridiculous argument. It's just an antiquated, obtuse, garbage system designed to piss off the player. The worst is when the try to lump it with other Megaten games in order to justify it. Frankly, it's the worst aspect of Persona 1, in my opinion.

Mark is indeed the best character. The Persona 1 cast was pretty good overall, but they would have shined even brighter had they been given more development like in the future Persona games. I can't really fault the developers for it, but i'm longing for a version of Persona 1 where the cast is fully developed.

As for Nyarlathotep.... He is fully fleshed out in Persona: 2 Innocent Sin. And don't worry. Persona 2: Innocent Sin is probably the easiest RPG I have ever played.
 
J

JoseOle5990

Member
Dantis said:
Ha!

Yup. I think it depends how you want to digest it. The anime wasn't written with any subtlety or symbolism in mind.
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Haha I agree, but I guess you have to factor in the whole cramming the entirety of Persona 4 into 25 episodes, which is less than 13 hours total. Some concessions had to be made and subtlety was one of them!
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Negotation is cool, the problem with Persona's use of it, is that they make it mandatory. They should bring it back in P5, but only make it an optional way of getting weapons, persona cards, items, armor, etc. Like there is still shuffle time, but maybe negotiation gives you very slightly more rare stuff.
 
H

hao chi

Member
JoseOle5990 said:
Haha I agree, but I guess you have to factor in the whole cramming the entirety of Persona 4 into 25 episodes, which is less than 13 hours total. Some concessions had to be made and subtlety was one of them!
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Yu grinding out most of the S. Links during the summer seemingly with the main intention of gaining access to ultimate Personas didn't reflect well on his character, I think.

It doesn't really bother me and definitely doesn't make me dislike the anime, but that's just something that I couldn't help but think both times I watched the anime.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
9thwonder said:
Don't listen to this guy, read it.
Click to expand...

It really is amazing, and I say that without a hint of irony

Simple words don't do it justice, you really have to read it.

hao chi said:
Yu grinding out most of the S. Links during the summer seemingly with the main intention of gaining access to ultimate Personas didn't reflect well on his character, I think.
Click to expand...
Oh, I didn't get that impression at all. In fact, it seems like he was roped into helping multiple people over the course of the summer due to the incident at the daycare. I don't think the anime has ever explicitly mentioned that Yu's main motivator for helping people was for the express purpose of gaining Ultimate Personas.
 
H

hao chi

Member
PK Gaming said:
Oh, I didn't get that impression at all. In fact, it seems like he was roped into helping multiple people over the course of the summer due to the incident at the daycare. I don't think the anime has ever explicitly mentioned that Yu's main motivator for helping people was for the express purpose of gaining Ultimate Personas.
Click to expand...

I know they never stated that he just wanted ultimate Personas, but that was just the impression I got. I'm actually positive the writers didn't intend it that way at all, but again, that's just the impression I got.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Guess Who said:
No one's mentioned Koromaru is involved. I feel this important to know.
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dog_peanutbutter_xlarge.jpeg
 
L

Lunar15

Member
Best Yukiko is manga Yukiko.

The manga does a lot of things right, actually. I really liked how they did Kanji's shadow boss battle. Leagues better than the anime's portrayal. Shame we haven't seen more of it translated.
 
L

LegionAgent

Member
SpacePirate Ridley said:
Holy shit, just looked and the first paragraphs.
Its the same story as the famous spanish tv urban legend from like 10 or 15 years ago of Ricky Martin inside a closet waiting to give a surprise to a girl and the girl putting peanut butter and let her dog... well you know the rest.
Click to expand...

Yup, I've heard of that, there are also many variations to that legend, each one is just as fucked up as the other one.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Lunar15 said:
Best Yukiko is manga Yukiko.

The manga does a lot of things right, actually. I really liked how they did Kanji's shadow boss battle. Leagues better than the anime's portrayal. Shame we haven't seen more of it translated.
Click to expand...

The manga for both Persona 3 and Persona 4 are pretty awesome, and it's the same artist in both cases. I really like how they incorporated elements of The Answer into the narrative of the manga.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
PK Gaming said:
I'm sorry to hear that your P1P experience was abruptly cut short. That final boss was quite dumb (it's not even "challenging" but instead, it's lucked based nonsense). I only beat it because Fred's Ultimate Persona (Amon-Ra) has a move that deals severe damage to it (Hieroglyphin), which required me to grind like crazy.

I also wish you picked Elly. She was a strong character, and entertaining (and did I mention cute). I haven't used Reiji, so I didn't think I had a right to comment on him but, he does sound incredibly disappointing. What did you think of his
relationship with Kandori?

Your next paragraph makes me feel... ahh, quite vindicated. I'm glad you called out the demon negotiation system in such a way, because it really is terrible. I've often seen snide remarks from the old guard that it's "too hardcore" for the casual Persona crowd (not really from this thread mind you), but it really is a ridiculous argument. It's just an antiquated, obtuse, garbage system designed to piss off the player. The worst is when the try to lump it with other Megaten games in order to justify it. Frankly, it's the worst aspect of Persona 1, in my opinion.

Mark is indeed the best character. The Persona 1 cast was pretty good overall, but they would have shined even brighter had they been given more development like in the future Persona games. I can't really fault the developers for it, but i'm longing for a version of Persona 1 where the cast is fully developed.

As for Nyarlathotep.... He is fully fleshed out in Persona: 2 Innocent Sin. And don't worry. Persona 2: Innocent Sin is probably the easiest RPG I have ever played.
Click to expand...

Given what little development any character really got in Persona 1, Reiji's relationship with
Kandori
was just fine. Honestly he isn't that bad of a character, he's just not as likeable as Mark or Nanjo because Reiji isn't as talkative and so he doesn't give you as much to get to know him based upon. I'm totally fine with others loving his character. He still looks like he wants to be G Gundam's Chibodee Crockett though.

Also I am NOT a fan of Philemon's new design in Persona 2. In Persona 1 he looked slick as fuck and his design sorta reminded me of Izanagi no Okami. In Persona 2 he looks like Steve Jobs Phantom of the Opera with a Side Ponytail.

Daimaou said:
You guys know you can just Makarakarn to reflect Butterfly Storm, right? Makes the final boss kind of a non-issue.
Click to expand...

Honestly, for all that Butterfly Storm is bullshit, that's not the fight's chief issue. The fight's chief issue is that the boss changes her weakness mid-turn and, depending on the circumstances you can wind up completely healing her (mind you she can heal herself, can be invincible, and can reduce your damage output to the single fucking digits) and there's simply no way to strategize for it because it's completely and totally random.

The final boss of Persona 1 is an awful, terrible, stupid battle in a game filled with awful, stupid, terrible boss battles. There's a difference between "challenging" and "Fuck you even if you're using cheat codes this fight cannot be won."
 
D

Daimaou

Member
CorvoSol said:
Honestly, for all that Butterfly Storm is bullshit, that's not the fight's chief issue. The fight's chief issue is that the boss changes her weakness mid-turn and, depending on the circumstances you can wind up completely healing her (mind you she can heal herself, can be invincible, and can reduce your damage output to the single fucking digits) and there's simply no way to strategize for it because it's completely and totally random.

The final boss of Persona 1 is an awful, terrible, stupid battle in a game filled with awful, stupid, terrible boss battles. There's a difference between "challenging" and "Fuck you even if you're using cheat codes this fight cannot be won."
Click to expand...

I can assure you I've beaten it several times over the years without cheat codes. Hell, I don't even think I had Makarakarn the first time I beat it. She's really not that hard.

I'm not saying it to dick wave or anything, but you're really over-exaggerating. You're acting like you can't prepare at all for the fight. (Having level appropriate persona, a stock of status healing items, etc) You can say it's a difficulty spike, and I'd probably agree, but it's far from "un-winnable."
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Daimaou said:
I can assure you I've beaten it several times over the years without cheat codes. Hell, I don't even think I had Makarakarn the first time I beat it. She's really not that hard.

I'm not saying it to dick wave or anything, but you're really over-exaggerating. You're acting like you can't prepare at all for the fight. (Having level appropriate persona, a stock of status healing items, etc) You can say it's a difficulty spike, and I'd probably agree, but it's far from "un-winnable."
Click to expand...

See, I won't deny that if I wasted ten fucking hours of my life grinding so I could waste ten more fucking hours of my life persuading demons so I could fuse the Ultimate Personas and waste another 3 hours of my fucking life leveling them up I couldn't then expect a significant increase.

But if I'm acing every fight in the final dungeon and then I can't beat this bossfight with invincibility cheatcodes then yes, it is unfuckingwinnable bullshit. I'm totally saying you never beat it and calling you a liar. That's definitely what I'm doing. Nobody ever beat it. It's battletoads impossible. Everyone who claims to have won is a filthy liar. Or I'm exaggerating because it just pisses me off that much.

For the record, the boss is level fucking 99. Everything else in the dungeon is at most level 60 something. A 30 level difficulty spike in the space of a room is utter bullshit. Persona 1's final boss is bullshit. I shouldn't need to waste 20 more hours of my time to win one boss fight when I'm already having an easy time of everything else in the game. That's not fun. It's stupid and boring. Yet I tell you if it were only a matter of grinding I'd accept that and do it. But like fucking hell am I going to persuade those demons again. Even if I like Persona 2 I may never play it again, because demon persuasion is an awful, terrible, horrible, fun raping mechanic and I hate it to death and pieces. The only reason I even consider replaying SMT4 is because there's a compendium to let me circumvent that horrible mechanic.

The moral of the story, really, is FUCK. DEMON. NEGOTIATION.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Anyway, in spite of my angry, confrontational mood, PersonaGAF, I really appreciate the effort y'all've put into trying to help me through this terribad boss fight. I'm not going to go through it again, but I appreciate the community's commitment to trying to help a guy through a game so he can enjoy it.
 
C

CrazyTank940

Member
As a Husky owner I can totally non-bais say they're the best


oh who am I kidding there's bias. I miss him, he stays with my dad so whenever I visit he always greets me at the door
 
H

hipsterpants

Member
I thought of something else about P4 that kind of bugs me that wasn't in my impressions: It's pretty absurd that even though you're all supposed to be best friends, the protagonist is the only one that gets really close to them and helps solve their problems. It's pretty hilarious that even though Yukiko and Chie have been best friends for years, it wasn't until Yukiko knew me for like four months did she find the resolve to really be herself and make a definite decision on her future
and fall madly in love with me.
It's actually depressing in Kanji's case, as I'm pretty sure none of the other Investigation Team members have enough of maturity to actually help him with his problems (honestly they're all kind of asses toward him).
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
I didnt get that impression at all. The cast of p4 behaved exactly like my best friends. P4a is flawed but it does a good job of showing how close the party is.
 
G

Guess Who

Banned
Sophia said:
The manga for both Persona 3 and Persona 4 are pretty awesome, and it's the same artist in both cases. I really like how they incorporated elements of The Answer into the narrative of the manga.
Click to expand...

Isn't the artist of the P3/P4 manga behind most of the artwork in Arena (story illustrations and whatnot), or did I completely imagine that?
 
T

todd360

Member
PK Gaming said:
Oh, I didn't get that impression at all. In fact, it seems like he was roped into helping multiple people over the course of the summer due to the incident at the daycare. I don't think the anime has ever explicitly mentioned that Yu's main motivator for helping people was for the express purpose of gaining Ultimate Personas.
Click to expand...

Friends are only good for unleashing your ultimate power. Yu did the right thing. I mean I only talk to personagaf to unleash the ultimate tower persona - waikungfu
 
D

Dantis

Member
Guess Who said:
Isn't the artist of the P3/P4 manga behind most of the artwork in Arena (story illustrations and whatnot), or did I completely imagine that?
Click to expand...

You imagined that. Sogabe's art hasn't been featured in any games.

Arena's artwork is mostly Arc and MadHouse, I believe.
 
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