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Persona Community Thread |OT7| P5 is nyaow. (Mark all PQ and P4U spoilers!)

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Dantis

Member
What kind of style would appeal to people outside of the target audience then? How would you say P5's aesthetic compares to the other Persona games in terms of appealing to mainstream audiences?

Like I say, it's all about presentation. I think it's not so much about removing the weird stuff as much as it is about presenting it in a way that's easier to swallow. I feel like this image, for example

q2RMeTZ.jpg

could be more appealing to the mainstream than this image


The P3 image would actually be pretty boring if you gave it to someone with no context, but it's also inoffensive. The characters are stylish and normal, the art is stylised, but still very strong and the colouring is super modern.
I feel like P5's Phantom stuff thinks it's cool in the same way that the Arena games thought they were cool. It kind of feels like it's trying too hard. The Phantom's outfit isn't stylish in any way. It's weird, and his shirt isn't even a realistic piece of clothing. The protagonist's grin - which is present in multiple pieces of promo art - isn't something that the mainstream will find cool, it will be off-putting. It's a smirk fit for a Dragonball Z character ready to reveal his true form, or a Naruto character about to show off a new fighting technique (...or whatever it is they do on Naruto...).

When you look at characters in the West who are considered cool in fantastical media, it's often the likeable, stylish goof. And if it isn't that, it's a more serious story. Vincent was much closer to a protagonist that you would find in Western media than what we've seen of Glasses-kun. If Vincent is Star Lord or Sherlock Holmes, then Glasses-kun is Tobey Maguire in Spiderman 3.

And when he starts dancing on a table to show his dark side, you'll all see it.
 
But would a smug grin be the deciding factor in whether or not a newcomer to the series picks up this game? Seems like there are a lot more impactful reasons why someone wouldn't like Persona (difficulty, social sim elements, bad anime tropes) that aren't related to small, subjective design decisions.

Persona Community Thread |OT8| It's shit, I dont like it and you're all wrong for thinking it looks cool.

I think we can discuss this without firing shots at each other.
 

Heavenly_Spear

Neo Member
Meh, you may not think it's appealing but I've been hearing otherwise from people who are long time persona fans or people who are just getting in or will be BECAUSE of the trailer from feb. I've honestly only heard a small handful of people who straight up don't like the thief theme and style.
 

Weiss

Banned
I don't think appealing to the mainstream is nearly as important as you're making it out to be, Dantis, nor should it come at the expense of the game's artistic vision.

That aside, Persona 5 is shaping up to be a very visual, loud game. The characters are dressed up in garish costumes representative of Thief tropes in fiction and it's operating on the same level as superhero comics and manga/anime series where the character transforms, given each character a defined, personable look that is instantly recognizable and iconic. The characters want to be seen while they operate in public places, compared to Persona 3 and 4's characters who dressed normally while exploring strange, warped, inhuman areas.

PS: Naoto's romance was dumb.
 
She's not Ken or anything, but compared to the rest of the colourful, well developed cast she falls kind of flat, and they repeat that laughing fit gag way too often.

To me it seems like they designed Chie and Yukiko together as a pair rather than individuals who happen to compliment each other, like Kanji and Naoto. Chie and Yukiko are two halves of a whole character. As a result, Chie is a more vibrant and distinct protagonist but lacks a real character arc. Yukiko is the opposite, a lot of her character is about her being first person you're supposed to save. She loses a lot once she's fighting on your side.

Also, she loses her place in the group once it expands to its full size. Playing off of Chie works when the Investigation Team is only a group of 4. However, when there are 8 people, she is similar to Ken, as anything stated by her could be said by someone else.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Like I say, it's all about presentation. I think it's not so much about removing the weird stuff as much as it is about presenting it in a way that's easier to swallow. I feel like this image, for example

could be more appealing to the mainstream than this image

The P3 image would actually be pretty boring if you gave it to someone with no context, but it's also inoffensive. The characters are stylish and normal, the art is stylised, but still very strong and the colouring is super modern.
I feel like P5's Phantom stuff thinks it's cool in the same way that the Arena games thought they were cool. It kind of feels like it's trying too hard. The Phantom's outfit isn't stylish in any way. It's weird, and his shirt isn't even a realistic piece of clothing. The protagonist's grin - which is present in multiple pieces of promo art - isn't something that the mainstream will find cool, it will be off-putting. It's a smirk fit for a Dragonball Z character ready to reveal his true form, or a Naruto character about to show off a new fighting technique (...or whatever it is they do on Naruto...).

When you look at characters in the West who are considered cool in fantastical media, it's often the likeable, stylish goof. And if it isn't that, it's a more serious story. Vincent was much closer to a protagonist that you would find in Western media than what we've seen of Glasses-kun. If Vincent is Star Lord or Sherlock Holmes, then Glasses-kun is Tobey Maguire in Spiderman 3.

And when he starts dancing on a table to show his dark side, you'll all see it.

So basically you want Hashino and co. to remove everything that could make their direction for P5 striking and have it look as mundane as possible.

I really don't get why you're harping on something they've put this much effort and love into, and that's generated so much positive buzz.

It's just not for you, I guess, but you're literally the only person I've seen who's criticizing it, especially to this extent. You must loathe Jet Set Radio.
 

Weiss

Banned
It's hard to tell because we've seen so little of the game, but I think we should focus on why these characters are wearing costumes. both in-universe and for the purpose of the game's themes.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Guess this wasn't mentioned, but the Persona Magazine #2015 July cover advertises that it will have P4D DLC costume codes that are labeled "original stage costume set B." They're for Yosuke, Chie and Yukiko. The magazine will have a bunch of commentary about the design behind the character costumes.

The upcoming issue of Dengeki PlayStation will have Yu and Teddie P4D DLC—as stated previously—maybe part of the same set. Also being made aware that this magazine will have a three-way conversation between sound composers behind P4D, which might actually be the same thing that will be in Persona Magazine (with the Lotus Juice x Banvox interview).

As part of their E3 2015 feature, Dengeki PlayStation is all, "Information on a game has been kept secret until now, but it's actually coming out this year!?" Heh, sounds familiar.

And I'm just going to say I'm so glad Dantis isn't in charge of the Persona series.
 

Dantis

Member
But would a smug grin be the deciding factor in whether or not a newcomer to the series picks up this game? Seems like there are a lot more impactful reasons why someone wouldn't like Persona (difficulty, social sim elements, bad anime tropes) that aren't related to small, subjective design decisions.

The deciding factor? Of course not. Nobody's looking at Persona 5 and saying "Well this game looks great, but that smirk has put me right off".

On the other hand, the way that the character is portrayed in the key art tells you a lot about the tone and character of the game. I think anime fans seeing a smirking character who is secretly aware of how super cool and powerful he is will think it's great, because that kind of thing happens a lot in popular anime like Dragonball Z. But in the west it isn't cool for that to happen. I don't think we want to see a character posing with an expression because invariably it doesn't fit the context, and that's why so many modern posters have characters looking expressionless.

As a final point to this, think of western characters smirking in promotional art. It's often a sign of obnoxiousness, and a character who isn't really meant to be likeable. Again, my mind goes back to comics by Garth Ennis and Mark Millar. I can imagine a character like the Phantom on the front of something like The Boys or Kick Ass.

I'm not saying that the smirk will prevent Persona 5 from achieving its potential success. But I am saying that the smirk suggests a character who will be at least partially responsible for that. I also disagree that things like social sim elements and difficulty are more likely to put people off. I sincerely think that they would have no negative impact whatsoever.

As far as anime tropes go, I guess it depends how far you want to take it. I absolutely think Persona would be a better game without the shite bath house scenes. They're like the sex scenes in Witcher 3, in that as the games in the series improve, they feel more and more out of place and stupid.

I don't think appealing to the mainstream is nearly as important as you're making it out to be, Dantis, nor should it come at the expense of the game's artistic vision.

That aside, Persona 5 is shaping up to be a very visual, loud game. The characters are dressed up in garish costumes representative of Thief tropes in fiction and it's operating on the same level as superhero comics and manga/anime series where the character transforms, given each character a defined, personable look that is instantly recognizable and iconic. The characters want to be seen while they operate in public places, compared to Persona 3 and 4's characters who dressed normally while exploring strange, warped, inhuman areas.

PS: Naoto's romance was dumb.

Whether or not it's important is debatable, depending what you want from the series. The point came from me seeing how well Witcher 3 has done, and that it's a series that I've been following since before the first game was released on PC. The Witcher 3 has broken into the mainstream in a very sincere way, despite being a fantasy game involving elves, with a huge pre-existing lore and despite coming from Poland. But it hasn't compromised itself whatsoever. When I play it, and I hear the dialogue, it feels like it always did. It's obnoxious and it's offensive and it doesn't give a damn because it is what it wants to be. And yet it's broken through into the mainstream to the extent that people who don't know what an RPG is and couldn't give a hoot about Lord of The Rings are aware of it and even playing it. That's what I'd like from Persona and that's what I think the team would be capable of if they switched things up a little and catered to a certain part of their fanbase just a bit less.

In terms of why they're dressed like that, you're right, but those ideals could still apply with better costume designs. Like I say, Glasses-kun's shirt is more than something that someone wouldn't wear, it's something that just wouldn't exist. But even regardless of that, they're not costumes that the west will find appealing, I don't think. The best fantasy costumes, I think, are the ones that combine real world fashion with the theme they're trying to portray. Starlord, again, is a great example:


The best part about comparing Starlord to The Phantom is that the costumes are actually really, really similar, but The Phantom's is miles less fashionable, poorly coloured and adds a twist of nonsense because "WOAH VIDEOGAMES".

Which leads me back to what I said above: I really feel like they're so close to hitting something that could appeal to a huge market, but they just have to go and fuck it up. The three core creative leads are three of most talented developers in Japan, and they can and should be doing better.

PS: No you're dumb.
 
Guess this wasn't mentioned, but the Persona Magazine #2015 July cover advertises that it will have P4D DLC costume codes that are labeled "original stage costume set B."

Huh...... Unique new costumes?

That would be nice, especially since all of the costumes barring the default are just P4G re-renders. (probably the wrong word, but you get my meaning)
 

cj_iwakura

Member
So moving on from P5 having the worst art ever, the riddle is solved.

Remember that Wang Long line that I thought was weird? No wonder, I asked someone who's fluent and-

Did they fucking machine translate that? Jesus.
"I believe the way Wang Long's fortune-telling clearly defined people's fortune and misfortune strengthened people's envy, and spread the curse this far."


The bad news is that the translator dropped off the team, apparently, so uh, that's me until future notice. >>
 

arue

Member
Never been in avatar bet and it seems exciting. If it's not too late I would like in. I think no matter how small we will see something new. If not, meh. I could use a new avatar anyway.
I'm telling you, you don't want a new avatar. You're still welcome to do so if you wish.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
He's just comparing costume designs, not the series. No need to be a dick about it.

His arguments are still pretty outlandish. Wildly different demographics, universes, etc. Hell, Starlord's based on an existing character. It feels like he's criticizing just for the sake of critique, and his arguments have no real foundation. P5 clearly is going for an urban/hip-hop/over-the-top comic aesthetic, and that's what they achieved.
 
He's just comparing costume designs, not the series. No need to be a dick about it.

It's an absolutely pointless side of the argument. Even if you compare the costume design between Star-Lord and P5's protag....what purpose does that serve? Honestly, what?

His arguments are still pretty outlandish. Wildly different demographics, universes, etc. Hell, Starlord's based on an existing character. It feels like he's criticizing just for the sake of critique, and his arguments have no real foundation. P5 clearly is going for an urban/hip-hop/over-the-top comic aesthetic, and that's what they achieved.

Thank you for putting it into better words then I could. It's pretty obvious Dantis is just shooting the shit with this argument, and any sort of foundation left the room a long time ago.
 
His arguments are still pretty outlandish. Wildly different demographics, universes, etc. Hell, Starlord's based on an existing character. It feels like he's criticizing just for the sake of critique, and his arguments have no real foundation. P5 clearly is going for an urban/hip-hop/over-the-top comic aesthetic, and that's what they achieved.

I think he's criiticizing for the sake of perfection. The only problem is that the largest part of the market doesn't really care about all those small, subjective things that he's pointing out.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I think he's criiticizing for the sake of perfection. The only problem is that the largest part of the market doesn't really care about all those small, subjective things that he's pointing out.

The thing is that "perfection" and "subjective" contradict each other. It can be perfect to one, but one shouldn't claim that it's an objective form of perfection that applies to others or the general public.
 

Lunar15

Member
Going by everything they've shown by P5, I'm sure there's going to be plenty of "normal" drawings by Soejima. Everything has a hip, inner-city look to it.

I mean, promotional art for P3 has giant demon monsters in classrooms and a robot girl standing next to a pentagram.

I dunno, everything I've seen about P5's art design and marketing materials have been absolutely stellar. Like, look at the drawing of the protagonist on the back of the E3 badge, I don't think we've seen that art, and that looks so cool. Even the mask doesn't detract from how serious it looks, if that's what you're looking for.

If anyone's worried about the mainstream "cool" factor of P5, just show em these menus:

BjW6CCX.gif
 
The thing is that "perfection" and "subjective" contradict each other. It can be perfect to one, but one shouldn't claim that it's an objective form of perfection that applies to others or the general public.

You're right. This is where the argument ends. We can say that the Phantom looks super stylish but Dantis doesn't seem to agree. Not that this all matters as we were originally discussing P5's mainstream appeal.
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On the other hand, the way that the character is portrayed in the key art tells you a lot about the tone and character of the game. I think anime fans seeing a smirking character who is secretly aware of how super cool and powerful he is will think it's great, because that kind of thing happens a lot in popular anime like Dragonball Z. But in the west it isn't cool for that to happen. I don't think we want to see a character posing with an expression because invariably it doesn't fit the context, and that's why so many modern posters have characters looking expressionless.

As a final point to this, think of western characters smirking in promotional art. It's often a sign of obnoxiousness, and a character who isn't really meant to be likeable. Again, my mind goes back to comics by Garth Ennis and Mark Millar. I can imagine a character like the Phantom on the front of something like The Boys or Kick Ass.

This right here is the most important part of his post and I think that we should be discussing this as Dantis seems to be making some fair points IMO

Edit: I kinda want to see Dantis expand on the bolded part as that seems pretty debatable to me
 

Lunar15

Member
On the differences between western and eastern cover art/promotional material for protagonists, I get where Dantis is coming from for that.

However, I think that the people who would be turned off by a main character smirking probably would never be attracted to Persona, even if marketing materials appealed to those sensibilities. Even in their most serious poses, they're still anime-style characters and that's always going to be a turn-off to some types of people. I like to think that P4/P3 are very appealing to those who don't like anime, but while there's a degree of truth to that, I think you have to at least have some slight tolerance or knowledge of anime or games with anime style drawing to even think about trying it.

Persona games are fucking bonkers. The most popular game in the series has a talking bear and kids who can go into a TV world. While I love the dichotomy between the bonkers aspects and the surprisingly down to earth aspects of the series, the outlandish stuff is always going to be a part of what it is and part of what limits its appeal.
 

Lunar15

Member
One thing I do feel is that we're mainly talking about that key art with the main character smirking intensely in an extreme style that was used in the newspaper insert to promote the reveal. Since then, we've had these as key art:



persona-5.jpg


persona-5-famitsu-cover.jpg


Far more normal and down to earth, much like the kind of stuff I think Dantis and others are looking for. None of these images evoke memories of Edgelord Sho from P4AU, which is what I think the whole argument revolves around anyway. Sure, he's still smirking, but it's not as intense or cartoonily drawn as that one image. Of course he's smirking, he's a thief. He's supposed to look mischievous. Smirking does imply that someone is supposed to be possibly untrustworthy but I believe that's what they're expressly going for. I personally hated Sho's design but I've loved what I've seen from this protagonist. I also think soejima will still draw a lot of down to earth normal-clothes drawings of these characters in relaxed environments, but to show that stuff before showing the intensity and passion of the main character would be misleading at this point. They already pulled a bait and switch with the initial trailer, but now they are appropriately playing up the "wild side" of these characters because that's the central theme of this game. As Dantis said, these key arts create the tone for the game, but I'd argue that these are absolutely on point for what they're trying to evoke.
 

Dantis

Member
And yet that's what your doing.

Also, comparing Persona 5 to fucking GotG? L-O-L

Yes. Stop being a child.

His arguments are still pretty outlandish. Wildly different demographics, universes, etc. Hell, Starlord's based on an existing character. It feels like he's criticizing just for the sake of critique, and his arguments have no real foundation. P5 clearly is going for an urban/hip-hop/over-the-top comic aesthetic, and that's what they achieved.

I'm criticising for the sake of discussion, I suppose? It won't lead anywhere but it gets people talking and possibly even thinking about things in ways they otherwise might not. Isn't that the point of the thread?
Starlord and The Phantom both wear long leather trench coats, combat boots and combat trousers. They are, at least at a base level, similar outfits. Starlord's outfit makes use of real-world fashion to appear stylish. This has nothing to do with it being based on a Marvel comic, or being based in space or any of the weird things you seem to dredge up, and in fact, is actually in spite of all those things. Comparatively, The Phantom's outfit does not make use of real world fashion and therefore looks extremely bizarre.

That's the point. That's the comparison.

Also, there is nothing hip hop about The Phantom's design whatsoever.

The thing is that "perfection" and "subjective" contradict each other. It can be perfect to one, but one shouldn't claim that it's an objective form of perfection that applies to others or the general public.

I mean, the point of the discussion is where I think the series would need to change in order to achieve mainstream appeal. It's not perfection, just a broader audience.

This right here is the most important part of his post and I think that we should be discussin

I'm making lots of fair points, actually, but some people are too busy getting upset to see them.

Expressions say a lot. In videogames, the characters on the covers often don't have expressions because any major expression wouldn't fit the game. The Witcher 3 features Geralt on a white background, sheathing (or unsheathing) his sword and surrounded by mud. By adding a smirk to his face, the image changes completely, and the message it delivers to the customer changes also.

Far more normal and down to earth, much like the kind of stuff I think Dantis and others are looking for. None of these images evoke memories of Edgelord Sho from P4AU, which is what I think the whole argument revolves around anyway. Sure, he's still smirking, but it's not as intense or cartoonily drawn as that one image. Of course he's smirking, he's a thief. He's supposed to look mischievous.

It's not what the argument revolves around, just what people have latched onto for whatever reason.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I haven't criticised the UI at all. I haven't even mentioned it.

The character design has to be taken into account when creating a UI, and vice versa, so they complement each other.

And loathe might have been an exaggeration, but you sure don't seem fond of them.
(Come to think of it, I'm not sure if you've even played them?)
 

Lunar15

Member
Hip Hop?

Oh, that's not really what meant. I meant more like... upscale urban? It has a city vibe, basically. Wasn't really referring to the protagonist, more the general tone they've conveyed in all other promotional art.

Either way, Soejima will eventually release drawings of normal, non-phatntom protagonist and I think we'll all see what we're looking for. Ultimately, yes, the big goofy cuffs, overly long collar, and masquerade mask of the Phantom are about as far away as you can get from down to earth but I still think they've done a good job of making it look cool, though.

The argument may not revolve around Sho explicitly, but I think it still comes out of the fear that these outlandish anime designs are what the art directors think are "cool", and that this direction will clash with more mainstream western tastes. This is definitely true, but I also still think that even if they portrayed these characters as normally as possible, it still wouldn't really reach outside of that market. The first thing they showed was the extraordinary normal stuff with the protagonist on the train, and that was still anime as fuck. You're just not going to find bigger mainstream appeal for this series, no matter how you dress it up. You're always playing a japanese high schooler living an excessively japanese life while solving problems of the paranormal variety.

Personally, all I've ever cared about in terms of promotional art is that it correctly evokes the tone and feel of the game. Honestly, I think they've nailed it this time. It's my favorite thing about the persona series, it's wacky, weird, and also stylish in the right ways, but it always connects to the various tones and themes of the game. Even when we went off the wall with P4A, I felt that everything stayed in line with how goofy that game was. You couldn't make P4A/U not goofy in my opinion, it's a ridiculous idea from the start.

If we really want to rail on character designs for this game, I'd be far more interested in complaining about what the female character is wearing in the dungeons.
 

DNAbro

Member
Hip Hop?

Oh, that's not really what meant. I meant more like... upscale urban? It has a city vibe, basically. Wasn't really referring to the protagonist, more the general tone they've conveyed in all other promotional art.

Either way, Soejima will eventually release drawings of normal, non-phatntom protagonist and I think we'll all see what we're looking for. Ultimately, yes, the big goofy cuffs, overly long collar, and masquerade mask of the Phantom are about as far away as you can get from down to earth but I still think they've done a good job of making it look cool, though.

The argument may not revolve around Sho explicitly, but I think it still comes out of the fear that these outlandish anime designs are what the art directors think are "cool", and that this direction will clash with more mainstream western tastes. This is definitely true, but I also still think that even if they portrayed these characters as normally as possible, it still wouldn't really reach outside of that market. The first thing they showed was the extraordinary normal stuff with the protagonist on the train, and that was still anime as fuck. You're just not going to find bigger mainstream appeal for this series, no matter how you dress it up. You're always playing a japanese high schooler living an excessively japanese life while solving problems of the paranormal variety.

Personally, all I've ever cared about in terms of promotional art is that it correctly evokes the tone and feel of the game. Honestly, I think they've nailed it this time. It's my favorite thing about the persona series, it's wacky, weird, and also stylish in the right ways, but it always connects to the various tones and themes of the game. Even when we went off the wall with P4A, I felt that everything stayed in line with how goofy that game was. You couldn't make P4A/U not goofy in my opinion, it's a ridiculous idea from the start.

If we really want to rail on character designs for this game, I'd be far more interested in complaining about what the female character is wearing in the dungeons.

I actually like Anne/Anzu's costume cause it's an obvious ode to Catwoman.
 

Zolo

Member
I actually like Anne/Anzu's costume cause it's an obvious ode to Catwoman.

Or Fujiko from Lupin III....or plenty of characters from basically all regions. Any idea where the costume actually originated, or did it actually originate from Catwoman?
 

Dantis

Member
The character design has to be taken into account when creating a UI, and vice versa, so they complement each other.

And loathe might have been an exaggeration, but you sure don't seem fond of them.
(Come to think of it, I'm not sure if you've even played them?)

I've finished Persona 1 and Innocent Sin. I enjoyed them both very much. I have told you this many times.

Hip Hop?

Oh, that's not really what meant. I meant more like... upscale urban? It has a city vibe, basically. Wasn't really referring to the protagonist, more the general tone they've conveyed in all other promotional art.

Either way, Soejima will eventually release drawings of normal, non-phatntom protagonist and I think we'll all see what we're looking for. Ultimately, yes, the big goofy cuffs, overly long collar, and masquerade mask of the Phantom are about as far away as you can get from down to earth but I still think they've done a good job of making it look cool, though.

The argument may not revolve around Sho explicitly, but I think it still comes out of the fear that these outlandish anime designs are what the art directors think are "cool", and that this direction will clash with more mainstream western tastes. This is definitely true, but I also still think that even if they portrayed these characters as normally as possible, it still wouldn't really reach outside of that market. The first thing they showed was the extraordinary normal stuff with the protagonist on the train, and that was still anime as fuck. You're just not going to find bigger mainstream appeal for this series, no matter how you dress it up. You're always playing a japanese high schooler living an excessively japanese life while solving problems of the paranormal variety.

Personally, all I've ever cared about in terms of promotional art is that it correctly evokes the tone and feel of the game. Honestly, I think they've nailed it this time. It's my favorite thing about the persona series, it's wacky, weird, and also stylish in the right ways, but it always connects to the various tones and themes of the game. Even when we went off the wall with P4A, I felt that everything stayed in line with how goofy that game was. You couldn't make P4A/U not goofy in my opinion, it's a ridiculous idea from the start.

If we really want to rail on character designs for this game, I'd be far more interested in complaining about what the female character is wearing in the dungeons.

See, this is the crux of the argument. You think that it's impossible for the game to expand into the mainstream, but I don't. I think they could get there, or at least closer, if they played it right.

As far as what Anzu wears, it's just a crap design. The thing is, she isn't the protagonist, so in regards to my argument, her crap design doesn't really apply.
 

Zolo

Member
I think a lot of people just don't care as much as it hitting western mainstream appeal as you. I wouldn't say Atlus doesn't care at all, but I don't think it cares that much either on that point since it's focus region is Japan.
 

Sophia

Member
I get the impression that this conversation about aesthetic and mainstream appeal is deliberately ignoring the sheer popularity of the initial trailer. Not to mention the amount of time Persona 5 has spent near the top of the "most anticipated games" list. :\
 

Nimby

Banned
A number of people here who have never played any SMT/Persona are definitely interested in picking up P5. I think this bodes very well, I think the game will be very successful.
 
I get the impression that this conversation about aesthetic and mainstream appeal is deliberately ignoring the sheer popularity of the initial trailer. Not to mention the amount of time Persona 5 has spent near the top of the "most anticipated games" list. :

I think we all know that it's popular. It's just that we're discussing how/if people who don't already know about Persona will get into the franchise with P5's release.

Persona's increasing popularity is a really cool thing to see though.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I think we all know that it's popular. It's just that we're discussing how/if people who don't already know about Persona will get into the franchise with P5's release.

Persona's increasing popularity is a really cool thing to see though.

Persona 4 Golden already did this, though. The sales and numerous people talking about it prove it. I'm not even sure what the point of this discussion is. Are we talking about getting the Call of Duty crowd and Destiny crowd interested in a JRPG?
 
I get the impression that this conversation about aesthetic and mainstream appeal is deliberately ignoring the sheer popularity of the initial trailer. Not to mention the amount of time Persona 5 has spent near the top of the "most anticipated games" list. :\

Though I wonder how anticipated P5 would be if it didn't have the reputation of the previous games behind it.
 

DNAbro

Member
Or Fujiko from Lupin III....or plenty of characters from basically all regions. Any idea where the costume actually originated, or did it actually originate from Catwoman?

I mean from my perspective I saw it as coming from Catwoman. I'm pretty sure that's the thought that most people are going to have, at least from a Western perspective.
 

Dantis

Member
I think we all know that it's popular. It's just that we're discussing how/if people who don't already know about Persona will get into the franchise with P5's release.

Persona's increasing popularity is a really cool thing to see though.

Exactly.

This is what we're discussing.

Persona 4 Golden already did this, though. The sales and numerous people talking about it prove it. I'm not even sure what the point of this discussion is. Are we talking about getting the Call of Duty crowd and Destiny crowd interested in a JRPG?

I don't think I understand what you mean. If you mean, someone who plays Call of Duty but doesn't play Persona, then maybe?

The 'Call of Duty crowd' is pretty broad, man.

But if you're asking if I'm saying how can Persona appeal to people in the same way that Call of Duty does, then no.

Word of mouth spreads down you know? Despite what you might think reading more hardcore news sites, things that are popular among the hardcore crowd don't go unnoticed by the more casual crowd.

I absolutely agree, but Persona 5 is currently not one of those things, I don't think.
 

Sophia

Member
I think we all know that it's popular. It's just that we're discussing how/if people who don't already know about Persona will get into the franchise with P5's release.

Persona's increasing popularity is a really cool thing to see though.

Word of mouth spreads down you know? Despite what you might think reading more hardcore news sites, things that are popular among the hardcore crowd don't go unnoticed by the more casual crowd.

I don't think a discussion about mainstream appeal can simply ignore such details without becoming inane and/or pointless.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I don't think I understand what you mean. If you mean, someone who plays Call of Duty but doesn't play Persona, then maybe?

The 'Call of Duty crowd' is pretty broad, man.

But if you're asking if I'm saying how can Persona appeal to people in the same way that Call of Duty does, then no.

"Mainstream" is equally broad.
 
Though I wonder how anticipated P5 would be if it didn't have the reputation of the previous games behind it.
I don't see this hypothetical really mattering because we can extend it to basically every game that was anticipated this year.

How anticipated would Uncharted 4 be without the reputation of 1+2+3? How anticipated would MGSV be without the reputation of the other MGS games and Kojima? How anticipated would LoZ be without the reputation of the rest of the series? How anticipated would Bloodborne have been without the reputation of all the other Souls games? How anticipated would TW3 have been without the reputation of CDPR and the first two games? How anticipated would Xenoblade X have been without Xenoblade? How anticipated would Batman have been without all the previous titles?
"Mainstream" is equally broad.
It is indeed an almost painfully broad term.
 

Zolo

Member
I assume "mainstream" in this case means similar numbers to Witcher 3, Dragon Age, and more of those kinds of RPGs.
 

DNAbro

Member
I feel like the absolute limit of "mainstream" Persona could ever reach is Final Fantasy. Could Persona 5 reach even half of what a mainline Final Fantasy sells?
 
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