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Persona Community Thread |OT7| P5 is nyaow. (Mark all PQ and P4U spoilers!)

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Sophia

Member
"Mainstream" is equally broad.

Aye. It really depends on what we're defining as mainstream here. "Mainstream" can mean everything from CoD Dudebros to people who play Plants vs Zombies or Minecraft to those who only play Candy Crush, and anything in between.

I absolutely agree, but Persona 5 is currently not one of those things, I don't think.

It's not really a "thing" tho. News spreads down from the hardcore to the casual; the bigger something makes a splash among the former audience, the greater chance it has to do so with the later audience.

I feel like the absolute limit of "mainstream" Persona could ever reach is Final Fantasy. Could Persona 5 reach even half of what a mainline Final Fantasy sells?

It certainly has the potential to outsell many of the spinoff Final Fantasy games, at any rate. Especially if it really does launch in NA this year.
 

Dantis

Member
"Mainstream" is equally broad.

Exactly. And the discussion centers around how Persona can reach more of it.

It's not particularly confusing, I don't think.

It's not really a "thing" tho. News spreads down from the hardcore to the casual; the bigger something makes a splash among the former audience, the greater chance it has to do so with the later audience.

We're in agreement here. I'm saying that, at least at this point, I don't think it's made a splash outside of the target audience, and I don't think it will do (in any major capacity).
 
Word of mouth spreads down you know? Despite what you might think reading more hardcore news sites, things that are popular among the hardcore crowd don't go unnoticed by the more casual crowd.

I don't think a discussion about mainstream appeal can simply ignore such details without becoming inane and/or pointless.

Yeah you're right. If a friend would tell me to check out P5 because it's super cool I'd play it. Even if I (for some wierd reason) didn't really like the way the main character looks.

When I say "break into the mainstream", I mean that people outside of a specific fanbase might be aware/interested.

So you can say "JRPG fans are interested in Persona 5", but it's a given. If my friend who doesn't play JRPGs and has no interest in anime is interested or even aware of it, then it's possibly broken out of its niche (to me) and has started to come into the mainstream.

I think we're using this as the definition of mainstream.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I assume "mainstream" in this case means similar numbers to Witcher 3, Dragon Age, and more of those kinds of RPGs.

If that were the case, the foundation of what Persona is and has been would have to fundamentally change, and I do not see the point of entertaining that idea.

Persona 5 has the potential to do Bloodborne numbers, though, which I think is plenty.

Exactly. And the discussion centers around how Persona can reach more of it.

It's not particularly confusing, I don't think.

What's confusing is that Persona 3 has already done this after Persona 1 and Persona 2 in the West. Then Persona 4 did it more. Then Persona 4 Golden did it more. So... where is the part where Persona 5 is actually going to make it regress coming from, other than your subjective interpretation that the art direction and concept will somehow be unappealing to a larger audience? Because that is wholly unfounded, and why you've been getting so much opposition in this thread. Your views don't match the majority, and considering the potential of Persona 5 reaching out to an audience who would never be interested in a game like it in the first place is a waste of time.
 

Zolo

Member
If that were the case, the foundation of what Persona is and has been would have to fundamentally change, and I do not see the point of entertaining that idea.

Persona 5 has the potential to do Bloodborne numbers, though, which I think is plenty.

Just out of curiosity, what's the sales of BloodBorne Vs the others? About 2 million vs 4 million/8 million?
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Just out of curiosity, what's the sales of BloodBorne Vs the others? About 2 million vs 4 million/8 million?

Bloodborne took a bit less than a month to sell 1 mil. WW. If Persona 5 were to have a global release date, I could easily see it performing the same.
 

Sophia

Member
Just out of curiosity, what's the sales of BloodBorne Vs the others? About 2 million vs 4 million/8 million?

Nah probably not that high. As of April 5th, almost a month and a half after the game's launch basically, it had sold "over a million"

Bloodborne took a bit less than a month to sell 1 mil. WW. If Persona 5 were to have a global release date, I could easily see it performing the same.

I can definitely see that happening myself. PS4 owners are slightly starved for exclusives, and significantly starved for good RPGs. That's going to work in Atlus's favor as long as they launch this year in NA.
 
I think we all know that it's popular. It's just that we're discussing how/if people who don't already know about Persona will get into the franchise with P5's release.
The same way any title hits the mainstream. Good marketing.
I assume "mainstream" in this case means similar numbers to Witcher 3, Dragon Age, and more of those kinds of RPGs.
I've seen The Witcher mentioned in here earlier. It's a weird comparison because if we look at the game, and it hitting "mainstream" success, it's arguably not some great story of pandering to the mainstream audience, except for perhaps the expansion of the game to "open-world" which is of course trendy. Because other than that, what do we see when we look at The Witcher? A game that cost $32 million to make that sold on the back of loyal word of mouth (fans of CDPR spread the word well) and a $35 million budget for marketing. TW3 had one of the most effective marketing campaigns I've seen in a while.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I'm hoping Sega and Sony see the potential in putting substantial marketing into Persona 5.

Atlus' CEO Naoto Hiraoka said this directly after mentioning Persona 5:
We saw this through Persona 4 and through Catherine as well. So going forward, putting the West and Europe as a big part of the market, and understanding how valuable it is, we will definitely be increasing the amount of energy and effort we put into making sure the game is marketed and sold as broadly as possible throughout North America and Europe.
Catherine was the biggest launch in Atlus USA's history at the time, and Persona 5 will likely follow suit. P5 being on the E3 badge is already a relatively important marketing point, I think. It's why I'd like to see P5 being on the big stage at E3, and I think they're aware that P5 is pretty important, so I'm sure there'll be an alright marketing push behind it. Sony could potentially have a hand in it, too.
 

todd360

Member
Back to the old argument huh? Sign me up for camp persona 5 selling like hot cakes while the unbelievers yell impossbiru.

Persona isn't as niche anymore as people would like to believe. Persona 5 sales numbers will prove this.
 
Back to the old argument huh? Sign me up for camp persona 5 selling like hot cakes while the unbelievers yell impossbiru.

Persona isn't as niche anymore as people would like to believe. Persona 5 sales numbers will prove this.

I think anyone in here believes that P5 will sell well. At least compared to the other Persona games.
 

Lunar15

Member
Well, it's less that these designs wouldn't breach the mainstream, and more that the mainstream has changed. The people who would be off put by the outlandish anime designs are not as big of a factor as they used to. You're never going to sell persona to the "Head Up, Eyes Down" crowd, but I think the mythical mainstream has never been so accepting of weird goofy shit. These are examples of things that are generally well loved and ubiquitous in the west right now, to the point where they've gone a little outside of their original niche.
Arrow-Producer-Talks-Season-3-and-Flash-Crossover-Episodes.jpg



So, no, I don't think a guy wearing a masquerade mask and some red gloves really keeps it from finding some kind of success outside of the niche of anime games, especially when we do live in an era where a talking racoon from one of the most incredibly obscure comic books can be in the biggest movie release of last year.

In fact, I'd say the tone of P5 marketing has so much in similar with all of the marketing for Iron Man and a lot of Guy Ritchie films, like Sherlock Holmes and The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

It's worth noting that I myself had fears that they'd go "too anime" with P5, but I've been utterly blown away by what they've shown us so far. It really really could have been much worse, and I think the trailer has played well in many diverse crowds. I think that's why I'm invested in this debate at all, it's kind of the opposite of what I've been hearing and seeing. Goofy as it may sometimes be, I think there is a somewhat universal appeal in a masked thief living a life of passion and intrigue.
 

Skii

Member
Persona 5 is never going to sell similar numbers to the Witcher 3 or Dragon Age: Inquisition. It just won't have anywhere near the marketing budget to those games and will not appeal to the mass market's need for an open world game. That is the trend at the moment and is working fabulously for almost every developer. Create a game, make it open world regardless of whether it suits the game or not and add loads of side quests regardless of quality and then push it out. The bubble will burst eventually as it did with FPS and maybe JRPGs will be back on top once again meaning Persona will have its chance to shine but not during this generation I expect.

I don't want to see Persona or any game for that matter compromising its values and game design in order to appeal to the mass market. At best, you can do what From has done and make a compelling game series like the Soul games and continue to improve that formula with obvious improvements and better marketing as your revenue and appeal increases.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Heh, I'm having fun writing Mizuno and Maya's argument.

Always nice to add personality to dialogue.

You know why you were called in, right?<LINE>
That interview project you turned in?<LINE>
The "Dream of the Rumored Student"? It's shit.
Who would want to read about a naive brat?<LINE>

<CHOICE1>You think it's 'shit'...!?<LINE>
<CHOICE2>I thought it was important...
 

Weiss

Banned
I'm gonna give Persona 2 one last shot. I've got one walkthrough and another guide for Contacts, Fusion Spells, Rumors, and how to find Rare Personae. If I still can't make it, then I can say I put a lot more effort into this than I probably should.

Alright, everyone; Let's be positive!
 

Dantis

Member
Well, it's less that these designs wouldn't breach the mainstream, and more that the mainstream has changed. The people who would be off put by the outlandish anime designs are not as big of a factor as they used to. You're never going to sell persona to the "Head Up, Eyes Down" crowd, but I think the mythical mainstream has never been so accepting of weird goofy shit. These are examples of things that are generally well loved and ubiquitous in the west right now, to the point where they've gone a little outside of their original niche.

So, no, I don't think a guy wearing a masquerade mask and some red gloves really keeps it from finding some kind of success outside of the niche of anime games, especially when we do live in an era where a talking racoon from one of the most incredibly obscure comic books can be in the biggest movie release of last year.


In fact, I'd say the tone of P5 marketing has so much in similar with all of the marketing for Iron Man and a lot of Guy Ritchie films, like Sherlock Holmes and The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

It's worth noting that I myself had fears that they'd go "too anime" with P5, but I've been utterly blown away by what they've shown us so far. It really really could have been much worse, and I think the trailer has played well in many diverse crowds. I think that's why I'm invested in this debate at all, it's kind of the opposite of what I've been hearing and seeing. Goofy as it may sometimes be, I think there is a somewhat universal appeal in a masked thief living a life of passion and intrigue.

I really agree with the bolded, and really disagree with the unbolded. A Guy Ritchie film (The Man From UNCLE is a perfect example) is the direction I think a Persona game could go to achieve more mainstream success, but I absolutely don't think P5 is that direction. You point to Guy Ritchie and Iron Man, but they're not at all self serious. They're exactly what I was talking about above, with these slightly goofy and very cool characters.
 

Weiss

Banned
Been grinding a bit in Seventh High School. For now, it's pretty to set up Fusion Spells with a few button presses, and battles are going smoothly enough.

I like that the game gives you about 20 minutes of normality before jumping into the supernatural save the world business.

R.I.P. Principal "Harding" Hanya. 1996 - 1999
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Been grinding a bit in Seventh High School. For now, it's pretty to set up Fusion Spells with a few button presses, and battles are going smoothly enough.

I like that the game gives you about 20 minutes of normality before jumping into the supernatural save the world business.

R.I.P. Principal "Harding" Hanya. 1996 - 1999

Wow, you barely started.
 

Weiss

Banned
Oh right, I forgot about the Kuzunoha Agency. Between Tamaki's presence in P1 and this, as well as Kyouji possessing the body of the detective (he even has a clasp with the sigil of Devil Summoner on it!) that would confirm that the Persona games take place in the same continuity as the Devil Summoner series, but I thought Persona was supposed to be its own thing with different rules.

Also: Tamaki (and Tadashi in IS) are dressed as Rei Reiho and the Hero from Devil Summoner in Persona 2.
 
I kind of skimmed a lot of this discussion about the mainstream potential for Persona, but it looks like we are making this a bigger deal than it has to be? The developers shouldn't change anything about the game to make it more mainstream, and honestly they don't need to because I think Persona 5 is going to be huge for Atlus.

The Vita's library woes early on was great for Persona because it introduced a lot of people, myself included, to the franchise. By now Persona 4: Golden has sold over a million copies, and with less that 11 million Vitas sold that means that 1 out of every 10 vita owners has the game. Plus anecdotally people are hyped for the game who have never played a Persona game forever, and that stylish ass trailer definitely helped.

I think this game could easily hit the 2-4 million range, which I feel like would actually make it pretty mainstream if that comes to happen.
 

jzbluz

Member
You know, I think what would keep Persona from being "mainstream" is the battle system instead of the style or characters. I mean, how many mainstream games have turn based gameplay? Even games that had it, like FF, have moved away from it.
 

Weiss

Banned
You know, I think what would keep Persona from being "mainstream" is the battle system instead of the style or characters. I mean, how many mainstream games have turn based gameplay? Even games that had it, like FF, have moved away from it.

Which I think might be a point in P5's favour. When was the last time consoles got a good, bid budget, turn based RPG?
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Oh right, I forgot about the Kuzunoha Agency. Between Tamaki's presence in P1 and this, as well as Kyouji possessing the body of the detective (he even has a clasp with the sigil of Devil Summoner on it!) that would confirm that the Persona games take place in the same continuity as the Devil Summoner series, but I thought Persona was supposed to be its own thing with different rules.

Also: Tamaki (and Tadashi in IS) are dressed as Rei Reiho and the Hero from Devil Summoner in Persona 2.

They had more of an integrated thing going with Tadashi writing them. The P3/4 team wanted it to be more of its own universe, which is for the best IMO, though I do miss the fun tie-ins.
 

DNAbro

Member
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/39rsld/e3_2015_streaming_schedule/

Question : i see in this link , Persona 4 Dancing All Night is going to be shown in June 18 th 16:20 (PDT).

So if we get any info in Persona 5 , when can we expect it , there gonna be shown in any specific conference (like the Sony one) or the new info is gonna to be shown outta nowhere.

This is the first time i keep track of a game in the e3 so im frickin lost.

It would be at Sony's conference.
 

Nimby

Banned
I was making a hype GIF for E3 until I noticed I pulled a Capcpom and captured an IGN watermark throughout the whole thing.
 
Which I think might be a point in P5's favour. When was the last time consoles got a good, bid budget, turn based RPG?
I think there turn-based games are associated with being "outmoded" or "old school." But if P5 manages to pull off a slick battle system with a stylish UI and fun combat? I think then, like you said, it'll really stand out in today's market!
 

MSMrRound

Member
So...let's say if Sony's press conference happens to show more of Persona 5 tomorrow, what's the method that you guys think that they are gonna use to reveal more info about the game?

My personal guess:

Realistic:

Sony executive e.g Adam Boyes alludes to it, trailer shown. 2015 (no specific release date, perhaps late 2015) confirmed yet again.

Totally not realistic unveil method:

Last announcement of the day. House/Shawn/Shuhei Yoshida goes "one more thing". Room goes dark, audience gasps. The glowsticks that they were somehow issued with before the press con suddenly turned red. The curtain goes down. Persona band's shaggy-haired saxophone guy opened with a little musical tease, then the spotlight focuses on the music god Shoji Meguro, who belts out a epic guitar solo and then they start playing P5's opening while the opening video gets shown on screen. Worldwide release date of P5 announced. *Dreams*
 

Makio

Member
Reality ;
English version of PV 01 with the date "Late 2015" in the end.

Dream :
A trailer of 4-5 minutes mixing PV 01 with some Blu ray footage , in english with gameplay , vocal version of the theme and real release date in the end (with day month and year confirmed).
 
So...let's say if Sony's press conference happens to show more of Persona 5 tomorrow, what's the method that you guys think that they are gonna use to reveal more info about the game?
My (sorta) realistic idea is that they show it in the middle and just an English version of the trailer. I hope they use the end for something truly huge like Horizon
or TLG
 
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