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Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014

K

KenjiGlove

Banned
What's the problem with Q's story? The only thing I didn't like was that there wasn't much of it but I still enjoyed it. Rei and Zen's tale was cute and the ending was super comfy.
 
A

A Dead Diehard

Member
KenjiGlove said:
What's the problem with Q's story? The only thing I didn't like was that there wasn't much of it but I still liked it. Rei and Zen's tale was cute and the ending was super comfy.
Click to expand...

Some characters suffer from being taken before their character development, the new characters start out as one-note, and the story as a whole is so far pretty much irrelevant.

However. There's plenty of great character moments throughout and the main story picks up amazingly in the latter half.
 
Z

Zebetite

Banned
i'd still draw a pretty clear and distinct line between persona q and a numbered entry in terms of writing, but i also wouldnt call PQ bad by any stretch. it's goofy and fun and dumb in ways that i can appreciate even if its not, you know, grade-A game writing. and the gap between those two things is way smaller than the gap between pq and the arena games.
 
S

Setsu00

Member
PK Gaming said:
Wait really? Do you have a source on this? Or are you making a joke?
Click to expand...

It's apparently true. [Major P4 spoiler]
Adachi's scenario
was seemingly originally a fanfiction by one of Atlus's writers before they turned it into canon. My source claims (includes various spoilers on P4U2's plot) that this piece of information came out of some Japanese interview and I actually have next to no reason to doubt that as she's usually pretty accurate and knows Japanese. If I had to guess I would say that it was mentioned in the interview from the P4U+P4U2 artbook.
 
S

Sophia

Member
There's nothing wrong inherently with PQ's story, outside of a few odd cases of flanderization going on. It's only flaw is that it's a true sidestory, almost depressingly de-attached from the main games. It's got some pretty great scenes and fantastic finale despite that.

Setsu00 said:
It's apparently true. [Major P4 spoiler]
Adachi's scenario
was seemingly originally a fanfiction by one of Atlus's writers before they turned it into canon. My source claims (includes various spoilers on P4U2's plot) that this piece of information came out of some Japanese interview and I actually have next to no reason to doubt that as she's usually pretty accurate and knows Japanese. If I had to guess I would say that it was mentioned in the interview from the P4U+P4U2 artbook.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that Neni brings up
Episode Adachi being more coherent and well written than the main game.
That's something that a lot of people have expressed too, alongside with the P3 storyline being marginally better.
 
S

Sölf

Member
Reached the floor 4 in the second labyrinth, roughly 50% done there already. Killed all FOEs so far, poison is so damn overpowered, unless they can oneshot my main no FOE really poses a problem at the moment. I am pretty I just will get royally screwed by the first enemy which I can neither poison nor kill with Hama/Mudo. xD
 
A

A Dead Diehard

Member
Setsu00 said:
It's apparently true. [Major P4 spoiler]
Adachi's scenario
was seemingly originally a fanfiction by one of Atlus's writers before they turned it into canon. My source claims (includes various spoilers on P4U2's plot) that this piece of information came out of some Japanese interview and I actually have next to no reason to doubt that as she's usually pretty accurate and knows Japanese. If I had to guess I would say that it was mentioned in the interview from the P4U+P4U2 artbook.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I thought devs weren't allowed to even read fanfics in case it influenced their work. Though that could just be one company's (or even one country's) policy.
 
MudoSkills

MudoSkills

Volcano High Alumnus (Cum Laude)
My only problem with PQ's story is that it's so hugely back-loaded. I actually thought the Zen & Rei stuff was great when it emerged, it's just that it all happens about 40 hours into the game, and up to then it's all meat protein meat protein meat protein hahahahahahahahahahaha.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Setsu00 said:
It's apparently true. [Major P4 spoiler]
Adachi's scenario
was seemingly originally a fanfiction by one of Atlus's writers before they turned it into canon. My source claims (includes various spoilers on P4U2's plot) that this piece of information came out of some Japanese interview and I actually have next to no reason to doubt that as she's usually pretty accurate and knows Japanese. If I had to guess I would say that it was mentioned in the interview from the P4U+P4U2 artbook.
Click to expand...

That explains... a lot actually. To many cooks in the kitchen fucking up the dish is a real thing, and it says a lot that one dude's fanfiction ended up being better than the other narratives.
 
M

Modest Mauser

Member
Sophia said:
There's nothing wrong inherently with PQ's story, outside of a few odd cases of flanderization going on. It's only flaw is that it's a true sidestory, almost depressingly de-attached from the main games. It's got some pretty great scenes and fantastic finale despite that.
Click to expand...

See, that's a plus to me. All its silliness is fine and okay because it sets itself so apart from the originals. The weird silly stories of the other spinoffs don't work for me because they try to be serious continuations of the plot.
 
D

daevious

Member
ShadowSoldier89 said:
quality job just shitting on everything
Click to expand...

I apologies for coming across as antagonistic, it was late at night and I couldn't resist the one-liner.

I actually enjoy fanfiction and most of P4's multimedia stuff is average at worst (Barring the P4 Golden anime turning Marie into a massive sue). But the reason I call it out as fanfiction is that it's Atlus being so self indulgent that it detracts from what made the original so good.

EDIT:
Setsu00 said:
It's apparently true. [Major P4 spoiler]
Adachi's scenario
was seemingly originally a fanfiction by one of Atlus's writers before they turned it into canon. My source claims (includes various spoilers on P4U2's plot) that this piece of information came out of some Japanese interview and I actually have next to no reason to doubt that as she's usually pretty accurate and knows Japanese. If I had to guess I would say that it was mentioned in the interview from the P4U+P4U2 artbook.
Click to expand...

That's really funny actually, and I'm hoping that whoever wrote that story got to do work for Persona 5 because of it.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Modest Mauser said:
See, that's a plus to me. All its silliness is fine and okay because it sets itself so apart from the originals. The weird silly stories of the other spinoffs don't work for me because they try to be serious continuations of the plot.
Click to expand...

The drawback, of course, is that they can't significantly impact the characterization or story-lines of the existing characters. The end results is that the Persona 3 and Persona 4 casts are supporting characters in their own spinoff. That's not usually a good thing for a role-playing game, even one that's styled itself in the footsteps of the Etrian Odyssey franchise.

Labrys at least, was directly related to the Persona 3 cast, and made a more meaningful impact because of this. Ignoring any of the wild mass guessing that comes from Persona Q's plot not giving enough details, Rei and Zen may as well not even exist outside of the continuity of their own game.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Can't wait for Catherine 2 except instead of Vincent and Co. or new characters, we get the Persona 3 and 4 cast grown up.
 
N

Nachos

Member
DNAbro said:
I'm not dying for one. Luckily there have been so many great games coming out it has kept me distracted. I just watched the trailer again recently and got thinking of when we might see anything. I assume nothing till next year though.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with not getting any major story details until release. I just want them to show actual gameplay for once.

MudoSkills said:
My only problem with PQ's story is that it's so hugely back-loaded. I actually thought the Zen & Rei stuff was great when it emerged, it's just that it all happens about 40 hours into the game, and up to then it's all meat protein meat protein meat protein hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Click to expand...
Which is weird, because even the Etrian games after II are nothing like that. There's always been the overall objective of exploring whatever you can going in the background at all times, but ever since III, the games have been good about giving you better short-term goals that help develop the story and NPCs throughout the course of the main campaign. It's kind of like Atlus themselves bought into the stereotype that Etrian games don't have a story.

Though, like Sophia said, Q's really hamstrung in that regard, because it's obligated to treat what are effectively supporting characters as the main attraction. You can't really mess with the velvet attendants, either, because even though they retain their memories, they still need to align with how they were after the dates when everyone gets whisked away. That just leaves Zen and Rei to carry the brunt of the story, but they're constantly struggling for the limelight with a huge ensemble cast and have their character arcs stunted until more than halfway in.
 
A

A Dead Diehard

Member
Sophia said:
The drawback, of course, is that they can't significantly impact the characterization or story-lines of the existing characters. The end results is that the Persona 3 and Persona 4 casts are supporting characters in their own spinoff. That's not usually a good thing for a role-playing game, even one that's styled itself in the footsteps of the Etrian Odyssey franchise.

Labrys at least, was directly related to the Persona 3 cast, and made a more meaningful impact because of this. Ignoring any of the wild mass guessing that comes from Persona Q's plot not giving enough details, Rei and Zen may as well not even exist outside of the continuity of their own game.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Rei's only relevant in the grand scheme of things if you choose to believe an elaborate fan theory, which has had some points made against it. (I just can't think of them right now)
 
C

CrimsonFist

Member
Sophia said:
The drawback, of course, is that they can't significantly impact the characterization or story-lines of the existing characters. The end results is that the Persona 3 and Persona 4 casts are supporting characters in their own spinoff. That's not usually a good thing for a role-playing game, even one that's styled itself in the footsteps of the Etrian Odyssey franchise.

Labrys at least, was directly related to the Persona 3 cast, and made a more meaningful impact because of this. Ignoring any of the wild mass guessing that comes from Persona Q's plot not giving enough details, Rei and Zen may as well not even exist outside of the continuity of their own game.
Click to expand...

I don't really see PQ as much different to any of the other spinoffs in terms of focus given to the P3 and 4 casts. Sure Labrys has ties to P3, but ultimately it doesn't make much difference in terms of impact on the cast, and it's not like she'll ever be in any non-arena or audio drama works.

Besides, PQ did contribute a bit to the mythology of the series, and the P3 and 4 casts actually did get some decent charecter moments,
even if they were ultimately retconned.

Persona isn't really a series where continuity is a major deal anyway. It's a bigger deal in the spinoffs, but each new numbered title, or at least from 3, basically has it's own mythology.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
The criticisms towards Q's story are definitely valid, but the story doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Like, you're playing it for the individual character moments (which are awesome) and the story is really just a bonus. The fact that Raisin take a backseat to the P3/4 cast ends up being a good thing imo.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
The spinoffs only matter to the spinoffs so they don't actually mean anything in the grand scheme of things. This is, of course, as God intended.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Yeah. I don't think the main story writers really worry about the story of spinoffs. The only scenario I can see along those lines is maybe being told not to kill off most of the characters or have their personas taken away.
 
Mobile Suit Gooch

Mobile Suit Gooch

Grundle: The Awakening
12191492_898300550276767_4182905961576186570_n.jpg
Click to expand...

I hope Diehard likes this.
 
A

A Dead Diehard

Member
Gooch: The Destroyer said:
I hope Diehard likes this.
Click to expand...

Oh, I do. It's crazy how appropriate it is. :p

Naoya: Driven crazy by his irrelevance.
Tatsuya: Screwed by life so hard he can't stand up.
Maya: Positive hoping's the same as thinking right?
Makoto: Taking a backseat to Yu's success.
Hamuko: Lamenting her status.
"Hamuko Yuki: A youth who curses her fate."
Yu: Stoically basking in adulation and money.
Phantom: Locked away from the rest by constant delays.
 
S

Sophia

Member
CrimsonFist said:
I don't really see PQ as much different to any of the other spinoffs in terms of focus given to the P3 and 4 casts. Sure Labrys has ties to P3, but ultimately it doesn't make much difference in terms of impact on the cast, and it's not like she'll ever be in any non-arena or audio drama works.

Besides, PQ did contribute a bit to the mythology of the series, and the P3 and 4 casts actually did get some decent charecter moments,
even if they were ultimately retconned.

Persona isn't really a series where continuity is a major deal anyway. It's a bigger deal in the spinoffs, but each new numbered title, or at least from 3, basically has it's own mythology.
Click to expand...

I'd say one of my biggest complaints is that the spinoffs don't have good enough focus on the continuity. It's a never ending repeat of the same characters going nowhere, while new characters save for Labrys are discarded as soon as their game is done. Like a Frankenstein monster of sorts. Which is particularly unappealing to me especially considering the main games focus (and should focus) on being standalone games anyhow.

This really rears it's head with Ultimax, which has a triple continuity lockout (P3, P4, and Arena), basically making it impossible to appeal to newcomers. Yet the story itself is loaded with awkward plot points, unanswered questions, questionable plot choices, and the utter lackluster that is the Persona 4 side of the story. So it has difficulty appealing to even the most hardcore of Persona fans. The Doppelganger Shadows get the worst of it. They're the perfect excuse to do new plot-points for characters who didn't face their shadows before (
Yu and the Persona 3 cast
) as well as a perfect excuse for having gameplay in story mode. Yet all of them pretty much exist as filler fights instead.

And then there's Persona Q (full spoilers time!)
As good as it's story elements and character interactions are, once you learn it's basically a repeat of Persona 4 Arena's story in RPG format with characters slightly less likable than Labrys, the story loses a lot of luster. I attribute this to why the Niko being Labrys's mom theory is so popular, as it provides a justification for the story rather than simply existing as a silly pseudo-canonical spinoff.

If they're going to do a spinoff, they should at least go the whole way with it. Or do as some have suggested and don't bother with a story at all. It's better than the half-way approach they have now.
 
C

Cannon_Fodder

Member
Sophia said:
And then there's Persona Q (full spoilers time!)
As good as it's story elements and character interactions are, once you learn it's basically a repeat of Persona 4 Arena's story in RPG format with characters slightly less likable than Labrys, the story loses a lot of luster. I attribute this to why the Niko being Labrys's mom theory is so popular, as it provides a justification for the story rather than simply existing as a silly pseudo-canonical spinoff.

If they're going to do a spinoff, they should at least go the whole way with it. Or do as some have suggested and don't bother with a story at all. It's better than the half-way approach they have now.
Click to expand...

In regards to PQ, (major spoilers)
I thought they did a good job explaining why silly pseudo-canonical games can still be special, and that's because they can be fun for the player. If I remember right, the culmination of Niko's story was that even though she's dead, and even though no one will remember her, it's still important that she lived because someone, at some time, enjoyed being with her. Same with the game; sure it doesn't matter in the Persona continuity at all, but if you enjoyed it while you played it, that's more than enough.
 
A

A Dead Diehard

Member
Cannon_Fodder said:
In regards to PQ, (major spoilers)
I thought they did a good job explaining why silly pseudo-canonical games can still be special, and that's because they can be fun for the player. If I remember right, the culmination of Niko's story was that even though she's dead, and even though no one will remember her, it's still important that she lived because someone, at some time, enjoyed being with her. Same with the game; sure it doesn't matter in the Persona continuity at all, but if you enjoyed it while you played it, that's more than enough.
Click to expand...

At some time that no longer exists, sadly. :(
 
V

VegiHam

Member
So I stayed up way to late to finish P4:DAN's story mode last night and you know what? That was about 5 times better than I expected. I thought the story was structured really well and all three protagonists had a clearly defined role and a reason for their focus in the plot. The
special prologue
was comedy gold too.

I do have one unresolved question, though:
What's up with Inoue and the Dance Coach? Proving your fidelity? Wry smiles? An understanding between adults that goes over Kanamin's head? Randomly quoting the guy at Junes? Good for you guys, glad somone other than Yu is getting laid.
 
G

Gecoma

Member
Since I
still
haven't finished PQ I'll refrain from highlighting those >_<

In other random games stuff I just finished LIS E5 & that game is so Persona-like it hurts.
IT EVEN HAS FUCKING PHILEMON :p

I don't know If I can last to the summer for P5 you guys. I need a trailer fix stat. Hope they start that marketing machine up in early 2016.
 
S

Sophia

Member
A Dead Diehard said:
Now that's unfair.
That's the case for everyone. :|

Yu: Bonds!
Sho: BONDS?!
Labrys: BAWNDS!
Click to expand...

Sho and Labrys are just repeating Yu tho. So it's still all his fault. :<

A Dead Diehard said:
At some time that no longer exists, sadly. :(
Click to expand...

MAJOR PQ SPOILERS:
Technically, they did save Niko from being erased out of existence permanently. But yeah, it still doesn't change the fact that the events of Persona Q themselves pretty much didn't happen. Actually makes the game a bit depressing...
 
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