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Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014

Jintor

Member
I think it's entirely fair to look at something and say, what interpretations of this are possible, and furthermore say, the authors should have been aware of the alternate interpretations available of this and taken steps to change, clarify or otherwise avoid the unfortunate implications.

Also they really should not have doubled down with that dance instructor in P4D.
 
It's weird because, yeah, P4's ultimate message is good, but how they actual handle the concept of homosexuality or even sexual insecurity isn't really done well because it's not actually the writer's intent.

The actual message heart of the message still resonates, so I think that's why people saw Kanji in a completely different light. The idea of being honest with who you are and opening up to others is still relevant and powerful for people struggling with sexual issues, so that's why people really latched on to the idea.

I think you've nailed the impression I've always had. Naoto was never a representation of the LGBT community because her whole arc was the discrimination against women in the work place and how she overcame that whereas kanji was more about how society dictates what's appropriate for a man and a woman to enjoy and how kanji breaks that standard. Kanji may very well be gay but I never felt that was the arc focus of kanji. Hopefully persona does introduce a well written LGBT character. Just expect the spinoff to ruin any well written characterisation.
 
At any rate, I'm mostly trying to say that Atlus don't deserve any credit for doing anything LGBT related, because that was never what they were trying to do. This is unfortunately something people are still confused about to this day.

P5 has a great setup for them to finally take a look at these issues, but so did P4. It'd be cool, but I'm not expecting it.

Anyway, Mitsuru is great.
 
Eh, Naoto doesn't join the P4 gang until September.

Oh? I missed that. Interesting.



And arguably suffers for it.

Pretty late to reply to this but I thought PK put it best fairly recently. Naoto destroys the entire dynamic of the Investigation Team just being kids over their heads in a supernatural murder mystery.

By design, Naoto functions to close the curtain on this part of the game. So as a character, Naoto has to join late. Or rather, the game would be worse off if Naoto joined earlier.
 

Dantis

Member
I think it's entirely fair to look at something and say, what interpretations of this are possible, and furthermore say, the authors should have been aware of the alternate interpretations available of this and taken steps to change, clarify or otherwise avoid the unfortunate implications.

Also they really should not have doubled down with that dance instructor in P4D.

I disagree with this part. You shouldn't alter a work because of how people would prefer to interpret something.
 

Jintor

Member
It kinda depends on how easy the interpretation is. If something could at a glance be taken to be, say, homophobic or transphobic, then I think there's a reasonable case that an author should say, well, maybe I should structure my message in a way that avoids that immediate implication.
 
Random question but what's the origin story for all the revealed persona. Was thinking how previous games sometimes hinted on the plot through the persona and all the persona revealed so far meet a tragic end if I remember right.
 

daevious

Member
I know I'm late to comment on the new trailer (which is particularly bad considering that I watched it during the stream ;>_>), but I want to say that I'm impressed at how Atlus manages to one-up itself with each trailer. There's so many things about this trailer I want to talk about but for the sake of brevity I'm going to slim it down to what I liked the most; the new characters.


Punchy/Biker-chan is probably my favourite of the three because I think her normal design and her Phantom Thief design compliment each-other really well. I initially thought she was going to be an antagonist for some reason, and her raw anger certainly maker her look threatening even though she's your ally. She seems like a really intense character and I feel like this group needs someone who takes this Phantom Thief business seriously at all times.
Having her Persona be a motorcycle is clever because it really highlights how Atlus is approaching this game from different angles and not just resting on P3/P4's winning formula. Also because motorcycles are rad and that she should challenge Mitsuru to a drag race in the inevitable P5 Arena.

Hacker/Sakura Futaba is probably my least favourite of the three, she looks like fanart of another character done is Soejima's style that a character Soejima actually designed. Her face in particular looks really off when she doesn't have her headphones. Her casual outfit is perfectly fine and I enjoy her Phantom Thief outfit, even if I think her mask is really dumb looking.
The funny thing is, I was thinking the day before that having a hikkikomori act as the Navigator would make sense for what Persona 5 is going for, and lo and behold Atlus does exactly what I wanted.
I do think that the smirk she does when activating her abilities is interesting because it hints that she's applying her online persona (hurr, hurr) to her role as a Phantom Thief and I'm interested to see how that plays out.

As for "Beautiful Thief", it's kind of amazing that Atlus can reveal a character, say almost nothing about them and still have people like them. I wasn't sold on her initially because I didn't think she had the 'edge' necessary to fit in. By edge, I don't mean to say that the other characters are 'edgy', that they're trying way too hard to be cool or taken seriously (though I totally understand if someone else thinks this way.) When I mean edge, I'm talking about the innate drive that gives the characters the motivation to actively act on their grudges against society rather than just wallowing in their own frustrations. Beautiful Thief doesn't appear to have that on first glance, she seems caught up in the romantic ideal of being a Phantom Thief instead of being invested in the reality of that life.
And then 'Adieu' happened and that single screen sold me on her character. Yes I'm shallow like that. If I had to give a reason, it's because her portrait art shows her having that edge in the way she looks at the viewer while drinking tea and the demons die behind her. It's still unclear what her motivation for joining with the Phantom Thieves is, but I'm confident that she has as legitimate a bone to pick as the rest of them.
I still think her casual design, from what little we can see from the trailer and the boxart, doesn't look great but her Phantom Thief design is aces all the way through.


Considering how conservative Atlus has been with showing off new characters, the fact that they've decided to go "Summon all the ̶w̶a̶i̶f̶u̶s̶ female cast members" is the biggest sign that they're definitely ready to release this game for real.
 
Sup guys, I'm playing Persona 4 (PS2) and I'm having a bit of trouble with the Hermit Social Link. I'm already at level 9 and caught a Huge Fish to get the angler's set, but when I talk to the old man he doesn't have the angler's set up to trade. Am I doing something wrong or will his stock/trade items eventually change?

Did you talk with him first before fishing?
 

Setsu00

Member
Random question but what's the origin story for all the revealed persona. Was thinking how previous games sometimes hinted on the plot through the persona and all the persona revealed so far meet a tragic end if I remember right.

Sakura's Persona, Necronomicon, destroyed any sort of obvious connection between them. Necronomicon isn't even a being, it's a Lovecraftian tome of evil magic.
 
Sakura's Persona, Necronomicon, destroyed any sort of obvious connection between them. Necronomicon isn't even a being, it's a Lovecraftian tomb of evil magic.

Tome bound in human flesh.
Or was that Evil Dead's interpretation?

Have we seen Sakura's Persona yet?

It's in the trailer. We see its level-up.

Is her Persona the UFO?

Yarp. Something known for abducting/stealing people and livestock and probing them for data. ;)
 

Mediking

Member
I'm also really happy the dungeon design in P5 seems to be amazing and alotta fun to explore. I'm trying to save Kanji again in P4G and the boathouse is kinda boring to explore. All you're really doing is trying to get to the Boss.
 

Setsu00

Member
Man, I hate everything about this character.

I don't know, Necronomicon seems like the logical extension of some of Soejima's comments regarding Persona 4. Soejima explains that Himiko (as well as Kanzeon and Kouzeon, obviously) were originally meant to be some sort of vehicle that Rise would pilot, but they couldn't do that due to hardware limitations. Jiraiya has a couple of sketches that remind me of Captain Kidd, so I guess it's not like vehicles as Personas come out of nowhere.

Still, I'm not sure what to think of Necronomicon.
 

Dantis

Member
I'm also really happy the dungeon design in P5 seems to be amazing and alotta fun to explore. I'm trying to save Kanji again in P4G and the boathouse is kinda boring to explore. All you're really doing is trying to get to the Boss.

The bathhouse might be more interesting if it was a boathouse.

I don't know, Necronomicon seems like the logical extension of some of Soejima's comments regarding Persona 4. Soejima explains that Himiko (as well as Kanzeon and Kouzeon, obviously) were originally meant to be some sort of vehicle that Rise would pilot, but they couldn't do that due to hardware limitations. Jiraiya has a couple of sketches that remind me of Captain Kidd, so I guess it's not like vehicles as Personas come out of nowhere.

Still, I'm not sure what to think of Necronomicon.

I don't like it. Looks silly. Like this character.

I hadn't realised she was meant to be in the UFO until you said this either. Now it's even worse!

I do think it's interesting that the two new personas that were revealed were vehicles instead of humanoid.

I feel like it's further stretching what a Persona is.
 
Still, I'm not sure what to think of Necronomicon.

It looks dumb in my opinion. However, it is clearly acting as her command centre as opposed to being autonomous like other personas. You can tell shes riding inside it from her party buff animation.

I want to see more of the motorbike persona too, because im not sold on that idea either. Much prefer them to be humanoid/demonic in appearance as opposed to looking like THINGS.
 

Jintor

Member
she looks like she could go either way on the serious/lulzrandom spectrum, really. Not worth speculating about until more info. Splatoon-chan has fun design though.

And her hair isn't nearly as irritating as punchy's. Stupid braid.
 

Setsu00

Member
The bathhouse might be more interesting if it was a boathouse.

I don't like it. Looks silly. Like this character.

I hadn't realised she was meant to be in the UFO until you said this either. Now it's even worse!

The idea is fine, but the execution is kind of lacking. Necronomicon reminds me of an armless Moros.
 

Lunar15

Member
I'm interested in the character. I expected to hate Rise in P4, but I ended up liking her just fine. All depends on how they deal with her issues and how they flesh her out.

Thematically speaking, having some kind of hacker be the navigator makes perfect sense in a heist story.

Design wise, I'm not liking any of the girls. The guys look really cool though.
 

Jintor

Member
Design tier, not waifu tier:

1. Potter
2. Punchy
3. Blondie
4. Twintails
5. Splatoon-chan
6. Mascot
7. Yip Yip
8. Adieu
9. ???
 

Lunar15

Member
Nah, Yusuke's design is a highlight.

I agree that the Kamen rider girl is the best design, even if I'm not digging the short hair. Her normal clothes look really really dumb though.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Punchy' normal clothes almost look like a bartender or bouncer outfit to me. I wonder what the story with her is. Intrigued.
 

Jintor

Member
Nah, Yusuke's design is a highlight.

I agree that the Kamen rider girl is the best design, even if I'm not digging the short hair. Her normal clothes look really really dumb though.

Her school uniform is okay, but the weird overall/apron thing is... odd.
 
Sakura's Persona, Necronomicon, destroyed any sort of obvious connection between them. Necronomicon isn't even a being, it's a Lovecraftian tome of evil magic.

The only obvious connection is that they all are all subjectively bad in terms of public perception. I prefer there being no connection to be honest. It only worked with p3 with the one character.
 

His last name is Kurogami? Geez! And I thought I couldnt dislike him more!

On the topic of Navi-sonas, the main navigators have always had a level of physical interaction with their personas. Fuuka got into her bubble, Rise had her visor. Ive always considered them as using their personas as tools as opposed to a 'minds eye' sort of thing. I guess Necronomicon is just a, somewhat radical, extension of that idea.
 

Dantis

Member
How so? A Persona can be literally anything by design. You can't stretch something that has infinite possibilities.

If anything, i'm glad they stepped away from making them all humanoid.

I mean, not really.

The Persona is meant to be a reflection of the character to some degree. I guess I've always seen it as like a deity manifestation of the character. A UFO and a bike are just objects.
 

Jintor

Member
i'm really curious to see what's up with the Corrupt City or whatever the hub dungeon is. I seriously can't tell from the trailers to what extent it's real or merged with reality or some kind of pathway into reality or completely, entirely metaphorical.

So many mysteries! Argh!

I mean, not really.

The Persona is meant to be a reflection of the character to some degree. I guess I've always seen it as like a deity manifestation of the character. A UFO and a bike are just objects.

if yosuke can have a ninja disco frog as his manifestation of the god susana-o, i don't see any reason why a (probably sentient) bike can't be a physical manfiestation of god.

the ufo as a book is a bit weirder, i'll grant you that
 

Lusankya

Member
Punchy' normal clothes almost look like a bartender or bouncer outfit to me. I wonder what the story with her is. Intrigued.

Bouncer? She looks like a croupier:

lgc0H4K.jpg
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I mean, not really.

The Persona is meant to be a reflection of the character to some degree. I guess I've always seen it as like a deity manifestation of the character. A UFO and a bike are just objects.

I'm glad they're expanding the physical manifestations of a persona rather than keeping them limited for arbitrarily pointless reasons. The Persona being "a reflection of the character to some degree" is the fundamental theme. That has no bearing on how the creators believe that can be conveyed, obviously.
 

PK Gaming

Member
I mean, not really.

The Persona is meant to be a reflection of the character to some degree. I guess I've always seen it as like a deity manifestation of the character. A UFO and a bike are just objects.

Who says said deity can't be an object? Like in punchy's case, she clearly has Ame-no-something-something, it just took the form of a bike. I just don't see the point of restrictions; it's way more fun to me when Personas are varied in design and abilities.
 

Lunar15

Member
This is obviously me injecting my own take into it, but the necronomicon is still a literary reference with negative connotations. A UFO is actually kind of an interesting take on it given that they're both mythical objects that contain powers nigh incomprehensible to humans.

Megaten has already had a demon taxi, why not a persona bike?

Wonder what it's name is.

Not sure why, but I keep thinking Joan of Arc when I see the girl. Similarly a tragic figure like Carmen and Kidd, but nothing rogueish.
 

Setsu00

Member
I always thought it was kind of lame how most Personas were simply there for fighting. The navigator Personas were the only exceptions in the main games if I remember correctly. Maybe that's why I kind of enjoyed Persona X Detective - it introduced some interesting Persona abilities (seeing the future, hearing the voices of the dead, amplifying other abilities, etc.), even if the novel itself was lackluster.
 

Jintor

Member
can't wait until persona accepts american gods as canon and we get manifestations of the gods of the internet, highways, media, the MiB etc
 

Squire

Banned
Punchy' normal clothes almost look like a bartender or bouncer outfit to me. I wonder what the story with her is. Intrigued.

I think she works at the diner MCs relatives own. In one of the screens where some of the others are planning, it looks like she might be taking their order.
 
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