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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect

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M

Meia

Member
Smedwicks said:
Maybe its just me but I'm hard pressed to think of more than a small handful of links that actually deal with the idea of death in Persona 3. I didn't do a lot of them, but at least off the top of my head I can think of the Sun S. Link and...

That's it.

Like I said, I might be wrong, it might just be me, but that's what I remember.

A lot of the S. Links in that game just deal with shitty prospects it seems, but I really can't remember all that many focused on death.
Click to expand...


Let's see. I guess it also depends if you go by the tarot definition here, which doesn't necessarily mean an actual death, but a major event that changes the course of your life. If you want actual death, half probably mention it somewhere over the course of them(off the top of my head Empress, Lovers, Hierophant, Temperance, Moon, Sun). The others may not have mention of the actual thing, but signify the tarot definition. I guess 3's overall message is things change, if I think more about it. Then again, that's basically what the Death tarot is, so yeah. :p
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
cjkeats said:
Maybe a bit of a generalization. Maybe more accurate to say mainline SMT fans. But yeah, every time the tone of P5 is brought up, there's a loud vocal group who want Megaten levels of dreary. Which is the complete opposite of what I would want. The fun tone of P4 was perfect.
Click to expand...

Just saw this, and I don't know how I feel. If we see something like the Persona 4 Golden intro with EVERYONE DANCING AND COLORS EVERYWHERE AND LOOK HOW QUIRKY AND GREAT IT IS then I don't know how I'll feel. P4's tone was ok, but I kind of preferred P3's tone more, and I wouldn't mind seeing it going in a darker, potentially more urgent feeling plot, just as long as its not too grimdark. It would have to be a balancing act, but yeah, darker more mature is all good with me.
 
M

Meia

Member
P4 Golden kind of went out of it's damn mind.


I like a few of the additions, but they kind of curb-stomped the idea of "HEY WE'RE AFTER A MURDERER HERE!" That plus the changes really drastically decreasing the difficulty of an already easier than it's predecessor's game really kind of made me kind of "eh" about it. Not to mention the writing in a lot of the new stuff was very hit or miss.


Personally for 5, a little darker in tone than 4(maybe more realistic based on what they're doing is the right phrase to use here), and as far away from Golden as possible would be fine.
 
M

Marche90

Member
It's hard to say in which direction I would prefer the next game to be. To be honest, I did liked the tone of P4, but it's true that sometimes you totally lost focus of the main motivation why you were going inside the tv (Murderer and all that), and a totally serious atmosphere wouldn't benefit the game, especially with so many people enjoying more the S.Link aspects of the game.

And the reverse it's true. Not many people would enjoy having a general light atmosphere without a serious threat. It would become a full Dating Sim then!

Would having a DS1 type of story, but with social links would be a good move forward?

However, if there's one thing that I absolutely want to see fixed in the next Persona is that your relationships in the game affect the game. For example, if you make x character your girlfriend it will be shown in the main story cutscenes and the like, or if you broke an S.Link with one of the party members, he won't be friendly towards you sometimes (but the S.Links should be fixable over time, too, just like in real life)
 
C

cjkeats

Member
I think it alll depends what you left P4 with. For me, the best parts of it were the social links, and the events like the camping trip, the school trip, etc.
Probably why I loved the Golden intro so much too. It reminds me of the parts I liked.

P3 does this as well, just with the opposite direction. When I think back to P3, I remember the ending more than anything
and I get super bummed out
.

buddha0991 said:
I love you too cj
Click to expand...
<3
 
H

hairypeckpeck

Member
p4g was fun for what it was. the tone imo was too uplifting though for a group of teenagers trying to find a serial killer.

p3's tone was great. it was dark but felt much darker during heavier moments.
 
S

ScraftyDevil

Banned
I personally thought that P4 had a better sense of urgency with whole "save people before the fog rolls in and dooms them" thing rather than "wait until next month so you can beat up another comical bad guy."

I'm not a big fan of things being all serious, all the time though. I think that's why FFIX is my favourite FF game: by starting things off happily, it creates a better juxtaposition with the dark events that eventually happen and makes them seem all the more striking. That's the direction I want them to go in with P5.
 
B

buddha0991

Member
ScraftyDevil said:
I personally thought that P4 had a better sense of urgency with whole "save people before the fog rolls in and dooms them" thing rather than "wait until next month so you can beat up another comical bad guy."

I'm not a big fan of things being all serious, all the time though. I think that's why FFIX is my favourite FF game: by starting things off happily, it creates a better juxtaposition with the dark events that eventually happen and makes them seem all the more striking. That's the direction I want them to go in with P5.
Click to expand...

which is why I like Persona 2. It is quite jokey at times and the characters are much more light hearted than P3's. It is also the darkest game/s in the series.
 
K

Kazzy

Member
hairypeckpeck said:
p4g was fun for what it was. the tone imo was too uplifting though for a group of teenagers trying to find a serial killer.
Click to expand...

Conversely, I thought that P3 often strayed into feeling overwrought, specifically with a number of its narrative beats.

It's certainly a fine balance, which is something that I feel other entries in the series execute on more effectively.
 
D

Dantis

Member
cjkeats said:
Maybe a bit of a generalization. Maybe more accurate to say mainline SMT fans. But yeah, every time the tone of P5 is brought up, there's a loud vocal group who want Megaten levels of dreary. Which is the complete opposite of what I would want. The fun tone of P4 was perfect.
Click to expand...

P4's tone was perfect for me. P4G's tone was too much.

I'd like a balance between P3 and P4 with tone, but I'd like the darker sections to be handled a bit more maturely. Some of P3's darker moments lose impact because of some shonky writing.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
buddha0991 said:
which is why I like Persona 2. It is quite jokey at times and the characters are much more light hearted than P3's. It is also the darkest game/s in the series.
Click to expand...

Innocent Sin's
blimp crashing
scene is memorable for how perfectly it mixes a joke with a very serious moment.

There are children on the blimp that catches fire and everyone on it is in danger of dying, yet the timing of the animated scene where the blimp catches fire is perfectly timed for humor along with the triumphant music that changes when that happens as well as the recurring joke that Maya sucks at piloting/driving anything (as well as everyone freaking out in an exaggerated manner).

Like this video. (Spoilers)
 
B

buddha0991

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Innocent Sin's
blimp crashing
scene is memorable for how perfectly it mixes a joke with a very serious moment.

There are children on the blimp that catches fire and everyone on it is in danger of dying, yet the timing of the animated scene where the blimp catches fire is perfectly timed for humor along with the triumphant music that changes when that happens as well as the recurring joke that Maya sucks at piloting/driving anything (as well as everyone freaking out in an exaggerated manner).

Like this video. (Spoilers)
Click to expand...

That's actually the music they used in that scene too. Yep, Maya has a "I drive terribly" theme. I heard it when she tried to drive a boat and the time it plays once in Eternal Punishment and then abruptly cuts off a few seconds in is hilarious.
 
M

Marche90

Member
Uh... I totally missed the context, since I didn't get that far but

I lol'd hard.
It helped that I had read already about the running gag of Maya driving anything
. Thanks, good sirs
 
C

cjkeats

Member
iJy0RuF.jpg
Click to expand...

gimmiegimmiegimmiegimmie.
I already see through the roof ebay prices :(
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
cjkeats said:
Maybe a bit of a generalization. Maybe more accurate to say mainline SMT fans. But yeah, every time the tone of P5 is brought up, there's a loud vocal group who want Megaten levels of dreary. Which is the complete opposite of what I would want. The fun tone of P4 was perfect.
Click to expand...

yeah

i really loved how the game balanced a fun and serious tone, and really kicked it into overdrive during the later parts of the game. The game hits its peak for me when
Nanako "dies" and group almost tosses Namatame into the TV
. That part just felt so real to me, and the ensuing scene where
you learn about nametame's story and the groups determined to find the truth at all costs was just so perfect
 
S

Soma

Member
After playing other SMT games, I don't really find Persona 3 to be all that bleak despite its theme. Compared to 4 sure, but what isn't? It felt more laidback to me than anything.

As for 5 I don't really have any expectations or wants. I just want it to be good.

Social links? Demon conversations? College setting? EDGY DARK setting? etc etc

I'm not too bothered if any/none of those are included as long as the resulting game is great on its own terms. I guess if anything I hope the main cast is completely new.
 
S

Sophia

Member
One of the things I dislike about P4's writing is that the characters don't progress all that much outside of their story arcs. While Persona 3's writing has some... issues at times, the characters feel like they're constantly growing and changing. The end of The Answer doesn't really feel like an ending, that you're gonna see them again. In contrast to Persona 4, where the story is a bit more self-contained. The ending feels like their story is over and it's not going to be continued on all that much.

Persona 4 Arena reinforces that, really. The P3 cast members + Labrys have the more interesting story modes as you get to see what they've done in the two years since Persona 3, where as the Persona 4 cast members really just go over the same stuff they did in P3 half the time.
 
S

ScraftyDevil

Banned
I think that's more due to half the cast not even having Social Links in P3. P4 had the opportunity to give its characters a more personal arc between them and the MC through their S. Links, which they took advantage of by moving the majority of each character's development there.
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Sophia said:
One of the things I dislike about P4's writing is that the characters don't progress all that much outside of their story arcs. While Persona 3's writing has some... issues at times, the characters feel like they're constantly growing and changing. The end of The Answer doesn't really feel like an ending, that you're gonna see them again. In contrast to Persona 4, where the story is a bit more self-contained. The ending feels like their story is over and it's not going to be continued on all that much.

Persona 4 Arena reinforces that, really. The P3 cast members + Labrys have the more interesting story modes as you get to see what they've done in the two years since Persona 3, where as the Persona 4 cast members really just go over the same stuff they did in P3 half the time.
Click to expand...

exactly. Persona 3 and 2 both have better character progression than Persona 4. 4's characters past their designated arc don't evolve or change much at all.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
ScraftyDevil said:
I think that's more due to half the cast not even having Social Links in P3. P4 had the opportunity to give its characters a more personal arc between them and the MC through their S. Links, which they took advantage of by moving the majority of each character's development there.
Click to expand...

It might be because of a lack of party S. Links in P3, but that's a poor substitute in P4 if so. Pretty much each character in P3 had personal issues to overcome and those were fundamental to the progression of the main story, not pushed aside as isolated side stories. The scenes where their Personas evolved were actually moving (especially Junpei's), as opposed to the predictable and, honestly, comparatively boring ones in Persona 4.

At the beginning of the game I very much disliked Junpei because of his behavior, but he becomes more likable as the story progresses. Other characters experience similar significant changes. Meanwhile, in P4, the characters stay pretty much the way they are the whole way through aside from some quick turnarounds after they face their Shadows (Yukiko, Naoto, Kanji, Rise...).
 
S

Supermanisdead

Member
Tying Persona evolution to Social Links needs to be removed and never, ever come back. Christ, all those boring ass conversations with Yukiko and Chie just to get better skills. Zzzzzz.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Supermanisdead said:
Tying Persona evolution to Social Links needs to be removed and never, ever come back. Christ, all those boring ass conversations with Yukiko and Chie just to get better skills. Zzzzzz.
Click to expand...

Concur. This was a silly decision. P3 did that aspect much better. Especially for characters like Teddie, whose S Link was tied to story progression.
 
M

Meia

Member
Social linking should always have been more about if you actually care about the characters, and even if you don't, you get the lesser benefit of the fusion boosts. I also agree that tying their ascended personas to them was a mistake, because it stunted their character growth in relation to the story, as others said. It's the main reason why I want a real overhaul of the slink system(provided it returns) in 5.


I mean, yeah, to be fair with arena it takes place like 2 months after P4 as opposed to 2 years(I think) after P3 for that cast, so more should have happened on their end, but still. It would have been nice to see some of the character reactions to stuff that happens late in the story based on their own arcs in their social links. It's also why a lot of the new stuff added to Golden didn't really add a whole lot to the characters themselves, which is the one reason why we ALL wanted to have new stuff added in the first place.
 
T

TurnipFritters

Member
Agreed. But then I think not letting your party members change Personas at will is A Dumb Thing That Needs To Go Away.

in other news, i found a cool tumblr
iiJYgrx.jpg
 
S

ScraftyDevil

Banned
I dunno. Both games do different things better than each other, but I still think that Persona 4 is slightly better than P3 as an overall package. I'm probably in the minority here on that in this thread, though.
 
C

cjkeats

Member
I think the only thing I didn't like about the Yukkio SLink was rejecting the poor girl. She takes it the hardest. :(

But damn her blushing portrait was the worst. Good god girl.
 
D

Dantis

Member
cjkeats said:
I think the only thing I didn't like about the Yukkio SLink was rejecting the poor girl. She takes it the hardest. :(

But damn her blushing portrait was the worst. Good god girl.
Click to expand...

Real talk.

Yukiko's is the worst.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, all of the blushing portraits look a bit silly.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
we.are.the.armada said:
Nice, just what I was hoping for! So, what did you like about the Bully games? Is there anything in Bully that you feel would work if implemented into a Persona game?
Click to expand...

I can't think of anything other than maybe being able to establish a relationship with characters of the same sex. Persona and Bully are very different games in both theme and setting.

Oh, and maybe having class segments be something more dynamic than buttoning through lines of educative and/or boring lines of dialogue and being expected to either memorize what the teacher said when they inevitably ask a question or have knowledge about obscure crap you'll most likely look up on the internet to answer.
 
S

ScraftyDevil

Banned
I like the personality that everyone's unique Personae have in P3/4 though. Maybe if they were able to switch, they could keep the same Persona and just have different "paradigms" for it (i.e. Medic, Nuker, Support, etc.). That way they could contiue to make each character's Persona meaningful while allowing you to switch tactics on the fly.
 
S

Soma

Member
Maybe even just limit them to their respective Arcana.

Like the token bro dude can only equip Magician personas or whatever.
 
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